Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[pgt_rob]

I am sorry but it is going to take a lot more than circumstantial what if's, maybes and generally aware for any of us to assume his guilt especially in a report that failed to even prove tampering occurred. That is the driving point here

 

Not in court. Just needs probable cause. And that report shows more probable than not probable.

[21isSuperman]

Fair point but I think what VL is getting at is Brady's track record in terms of his character, integrity, being a good teammate have been impeccable for 15 years now. I am sorry but it is going to take a lot more than circumstantial what if's, maybes and generally aware for any of us to assume his guilt especially in a report that failed to even prove tampering occurred. That is the driving point here - Brady's supposed involvement that is the weakest part of this entire thing. Call us homers if you want but Brady has earned that reputation his whole career and far be it for any of us that have followed him to judge him a liar and a cheat based on something as flimsy as the Wells report. I certainly would give Peyton the same benefit of the doubt if it was him in this situation. Hopefully we will get more clarification with the appeal and potential court suit ...

I dunno about that...

 

 

[amfootball]

Not in court. Just needs probable cause. And that report shows more probable than not probable.

The Wells report will be torn apart in court.

[pgt_rob]

The Wells report will be torn apart in court.

 

Says you. That is an opinion. Unbiased jurors will decide.

[csmopar]

The Wells report will be torn apart in court.

Not as much as you think......

[Bad Morty]

I understand.  My reading and interpretation of the Wells report doesn't lead me to the same conclusion, though. 

 

When tested,  all of  the  Patriots  footballs — both  game  balls  and  back-up  balls — registered on the lower-end of the permissible inflation range.  Anderson recalls that most of the Patriots footballs measured 12.5 psi, though there may have been one or two that measured 12.6 psi. No air was added to or released from these balls because they were within the permissible range.  According to Anderson, two of the game balls provided by the Patriots measured below the 12.5 psi threshold. Yette used the air pump provided by the Patriots to inflate those footballs, explaining  that  he “purposefully  overshot” the  range (because it  is  hard  to  be  precise  when adding air), and then gave the footballs back to Anderson, who used the air release valve on his gauge to reduce the pressure down to 12.5 psi.

 

So the balls were already at 12.5 psi before McNally got to them.  However, since McNally/the Patriots/Brady have denied the whole thing, it's hard to know what gauge McNally used and how that ties in

 

 

I like detective stories, so I'm really just trying to find a logical/plausible story line that ties together 2 things:

 

1) The deceptive behavior of McNally/the texts/other circumstantial evidence surrounding this that paints an incriminating picture

2) Science that doesn't really provide conclusive proof that a crime took place

 

My version of that is that McNally was armed with his own gauge (we know these guys have them since the Colts guy had one at the ready to gauge the intercepted ball). He gets the balls from the ref...we know in hindsight that Anderson set the balls to 12.5, but we also know there was apparently a history of the refs inflating balls above the specs that the Pats gave them (i.e. the Jets game incident).

 

So does it not make sense that McNally felt as though his "job" was to not take the ref's word for it that the balls were inflated to 12.5? Last time he took their word for it, Brady got over-inflated footballs and McNally got his butt chewed out the next day...soooo....to prevent an episode like that, you take the balls behind close doors, you quickly gauge them all...maybe you let air out if they are over 12.5...then you get them to Brady. In that scenario, McNally is still violating a rule that he felt the need to lie about, but at the end of the day the balls are getting in to the game at the 12.5 level they are supposed to be at which is why the halftime measurements don't really conclusively prove that anything happened.

[Gramz]

The Wells report will be torn apart in court.

And Kraft will sue the league and never accept his punishment.

Oh wait.

[ruksak]

I am with you ... on to 2015!  We gotta see if this Jimmy is the heir apparent or not. And most importantly we got a banner to raise.

We got a banner too. 

 

 

Huh? What 'chu think about that? Straight-up participation trophy for us. Would you like some peanut butter for your jelly? 

[pgt_rob]

So does it not make sense that McNally felt as though his "job" was to not take the ref's word for it that the balls were inflated to 12.5? Last time he took their word for it, Brady got over-inflated footballs and McNally got his butt chewed out the next day...soooo....to prevent an episode like that, you take the balls behind close doors, you quickly gauge them all...maybe you let air out if they are over 12.5...then you get them to Brady. In that scenario, McNally is still violating a rule that he felt the need to lie about, but at the end of the day the balls are getting in to the game at the 12.5 level they are supposed to be at which is why the halftime measurements don't really conclusively prove that anything happened.

 

But then we are taking your word for it that McNally snuck to let air out BUT KEPT THE PRESSURE ABOVE 12.5 PSI, because he wanted to be a fair nice guy and still play within the legal limit.

[Bad Morty]

But then we are taking your word for it that McNally snuck to let air out BUT KEPT THE PRESSURE ABOVE 12.5 PSI, because he wanted to be a fair nice guy and still play within the legal limit.

no - you aren't taking my word for it...you are taking the word of the Wells report science, which even if you take his worst case assumption (which other science outfits disagree with), it's not really a slam dunk case that those balls were deflated significantly if at all.  

[Shane Bond]

June 23rd, there will be a new thread created and the whining will continue....

[ruksak]

This debate is seriously starting to remind me of the 9/11 truther debates, where we have people from both sides talking about scientific statistical points that they don't understand themselves, only parroting what google will hand them. 

 

This whole thing, the Wells report, is akin to a Rorschach Test. You see what you want to see when you look at it. 

 

 

Is that Tom Brady deflating a football? Is that the NFL wrongly persecuting the Patriots? Is that a butterfly with AIDS?

[Bad Morty]

But then we are taking your word for it that McNally snuck to let air out BUT KEPT THE PRESSURE ABOVE 12.5 PSI, because he wanted to be a fair nice guy and still play within the legal limit.

And by the way, McNally may not have taken ANY air out of the balls. It's completely logical to think that having been burned once by the refs in the Jets game he was basically double checking to make sure the refs did what he asked them to do. Again - he's not allowed to do that, which is why he was deceptive when asked.

[Archer]

The funny thing about many Pat fans' response to the Wells Report: they point out all the flaws in the way the refs conducted and documented the analysis and say that it won't hold in court.  However, one must remember that the referees were not processing a crime scene.  They have no experience doing this and probably thought the whole thing was stupid and would come to nothing.  So, yes, it would have been better if they measured the Colt balls and Patriot balls concurrently.  Yes, it would have been better if they documented the pre-game measurements and which guage they used.  But they didn't, so we've got to use the measurements we got.  And, as others have noted, this is not a courtroom, and "beyond a reasonable doubt" is not going to apply (not even in some kind of civil suit"). 

 

To me, to suggest that the Colts' balls were over-inflated seems like a weird claim.  But the real weird thing is that the whole argument here against the Wells report hinges on the belief that the Colt balls warmed for significantly longer in the locker room.  Logically, you'd have to think that once the refs set up a system for guaging the balls and calling out their numbers, it would all go pretty fast after that (30-40 seconds per ball for both guages' measurements???).  So the Pats' balls would take seven minutes at the most, and you'd assume they'd immediately start on the Colts' balls.  There is nothing to suggest that the Pats' balls were measured at the beginning of half-time and the Colts' at the end.  (Plus, that would be silly given the fact that they can motor through them once they have the system set up.)  At any rate, I don't know how quickly the warmer room takes to affect the air pressure in the ball, but I don't think an average of five minutes or so additional time that the Colt balls were in the room before measurement isn't going to make a huge difference. 

 

And for conspiracy theorists, once you do the math on the 30-40 second figure (that I made up), the measurement alone takes up 7.5 - 10 minutes of a standard 12-minute half-time.  Can't imagine it began until the refs took a leak either.  No, these guys did the best they could without crime scene training and in the time allotted.  And the half-time measurements are pretty damning for the Pats, which is why the INDEPENDENT Wells Report found the Colts' balls were in line with the ideal gas law and the Pats weren't... 

[Bad Morty]

The funny thing about many Pat fans' response to the Wells Report: they point out all the flaws in the way the refs conducted and documented the analysis and say that it won't hold in court.  However, one must remember that the referees were not processing a crime scene.  They have no experience doing this and probably thought the whole thing was stupid and would come to nothing.  So, yes, it would have been better if they measured the Colt balls and Patriot balls concurrently.  Yes, it would have been better if they documented the pre-game measurements and which guage they used.  But they didn't, so we've got to use the measurements we got.  And, as others have noted, this is not a courtroom, and "beyond a reasonable doubt" is not going to apply (not even in some kind of civil suit"). 

 

To me, to suggest that the Colts' balls were over-inflated seems like a weird claim.  But the real weird thing is that the whole argument here against the Wells report hinges on the belief that the Colt balls warmed for significantly longer in the locker room.  Logically, you'd have to think that once the refs set up a system for guaging the balls and calling out their numbers, it would all go pretty fast after that (30-40 seconds per ball for both guages' measurements???).  So the Pats' balls would take seven minutes at the most, and you'd assume they'd immediately start on the Colts' balls.  There is nothing to suggest that the Pats' balls were measured at the beginning of half-time and the Colts' at the end.  (Plus, that would be silly given the fact that they can motor through them once they have the system set up.)  At any rate, I don't know how quickly the warmer room takes to affect the air pressure in the ball, but I don't think an average of five minutes or so additional time that the Colt balls were in the room before measurement isn't going to make a huge difference. 

 

And for conspiracy theorists, once you do the math on the 30-40 second figure (that I made up), the measurement alone takes up 7.5 - 10 minutes of a standard 12-minute half-time.  Can't imagine it began until the refs took a leak either.  No, these guys did the best they could without crime scene training and in the time allotted.  And the half-time measurements are pretty damning for the Pats, which is why the INDEPENDENT Wells Report found the Colts' balls were in line with the ideal gas law and the Pats weren't... 

You are missing quite a few things I think

 

1) The AEI report wasn't suggesting that the Colts balls were "overinflated", i.e. that they were suddenly over the legal limit...they are saying that they measured at levels which would far exceed their expected measurements having been out in the cold for the first half...that is because they were measured after they had warmed up in the room.

 

2) Your "timing of how long it would take" is well and good, except the Wells report makes it clear that the reason only 4 Colts balls got measured is because they ran out of time and had to start the 2nd half. That proves that the Colts balls sat there for the duration of the halftime before someone started taking measurements

 

Your first point (about it not being treated like a crime scene) - I agree with that 100%. These are NFL refs, not lab scientists. But as you also noted, the scientific analysis done by Wells after the fact is limited by how the refs handled the situation. Yes - had the refs had the foresight to measure the Colts and Pats balls at the same time to eliminate any effect of warming back up, that would have made for a much more convincing scientific analysis after the fact...but they didn't, and by definition the analysis takes a hit because of it. Every mis-step they made from "perfectly controlled lab conditions" to "normal NFL halftime" results in another "assumption" that has to be factored in after the fact in order to draw conclusions...that weakens the case.

[amfootball]

We got a banner too. 

 

 

Huh? What 'chu think about that? Straight-up participation trophy for us. Would you like some peanut butter for your jelly? 

lol. Love it. Our 16-0hhh wait, banner might trump your finalist banner though ...

[Bad Morty]

And this from the Washington Post...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/as-brady-appeal-nears-roger-goodell-is-stuck-in-a-corner-of-his-own-creation/2015/06/17/a5fcbaa6-1456-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html

 

"The NFL paid millions for a fundamentally flawed report by lawyer Ted Wells that made Brady and the Patriots out to be slam-dunk guilty, based on more than 100 pages of mathematical analysis of ball pressurization . . . that turns out to be erroneous. The AEI’s report totally rejects the finding that the footballs used by the Patriots in the AFC Championship had a significant drop in air pressure compared to the Colts. But the truly damning sentence is this one, buried in its erudite phrasings and equations: “The Wells report’s statistical analysis cannot be replicated by performing the analysis as described in the report,” the AEI concludes. Translated into normal English: The math didn’t add up. It’s a standard principle in science: If you can’t replicate a set of results, then there is a problem with them. A flaw or a fraud is at work. Either you made a mistake, or you made it up.

When the AEI analysts looked more closely at how such a mistake could have been made, what they found “astonished” them, says the report’s co-author Stan Veuger. The Wells report “relies on an unorthodox statistical procedure at odds with the methodology the report describes.” Translation: The Wells report said it would use one equation, but then used a different (and weird) equation to arrive at its numbers.

“It was really clumsy,” Veuger says. “It’s the kind of mistake you’d see in freshman statistics class.” "

[southwest1]

The Wells report will be torn apart in court.

Do you really think Brady is going to take this case to the US Circuit Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court AMF? The CBA won't permit that & even if it did Brady would come across as the biggest darn cry baby on the planet. LOL! I kind of wish he could though in a way because he would be compelled to turn over his phone then. So, what the hades go for it. I'm game. 

 

Fair point but I think what VL is getting at is Brady's track record in terms of his character, integrity, being a good teammate have been impeccable for 15 years now. I am sorry but it is going to take a lot more than circumstantial what if's, maybes and generally aware for any of us to assume his guilt especially in a report that failed to even prove tampering occurred. That is the driving point here - Brady's supposed involvement that is the weakest part of this entire thing. Call us homers if you want but Brady has earned that reputation his whole career and far be it for any of us that have followed him to judge him a liar and a cheat based on something as flimsy as the Wells report. I certainly would give Peyton the same benefit of the doubt if it was him in this situation. Hopefully we will get more clarification with the appeal and potential court suit ...

On the contrary AMF, Brady is at the epicenter of this self induced hurricane & also Tommy's global stature works against him now not in his favor. That doesn't mean he's automatically guilty yes I agree, but his clout or winning record in terms of multiple championships doesn't mean he is perfection personified & beyond reproach either. 

 

This case boils down to 1 thing & 1 thing only: Brady's deliberate decision to not come clean, cooperate with the NFL, or turn over his phone. Had Brady complied & told the truth this story would be dead & buried by now. You know it, I know it, & everybody in America knows it. 

[amfootball]

And this from the Washington Post...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/as-brady-appeal-nears-roger-goodell-is-stuck-in-a-corner-of-his-own-creation/2015/06/17/a5fcbaa6-1456-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html

 

 

“It was really clumsy,” Veuger says. “It’s the kind of mistake you’d see in freshman statistics class.” "

LOL.

[Bad Morty]

LOL.

LOL is right...

 

"The AEI analysis suggests that NFL Players Association Director DeMaurice Smith was right when he said the Wells report “delivered exactly what the client wanted.” It suggests that this wasn’t an investigation; it was a frame job by the commissioner’s office desperate to reestablish its authority.

Brady may or may not win his appeal. But there is one sure loser here, trapped in a box of his own making: the commissioner."

[amfootball]

LOL is right...

 

"The AEI analysis suggests that NFL Players Association Director DeMaurice Smith was right when he said the Wells report “delivered exactly what the client wanted.” It suggests that this wasn’t an investigation; it was a frame job by the commissioner’s office desperate to reestablish its authority.

Brady may or may not win his appeal. But there is one sure loser here, trapped in a box of his own making: the commissioner."

Yep that pretty much sums up this hatchet job.

[Bad Morty]

Yeah well it's the Washington Post, and uh...Washington is uh...sorta kinda near Boston, so...uh...obviously biased...

[Gramz]

And by the way, McNally may not have taken ANY air out of the balls. It's completely logical to think that having been burned once by the refs in the Jets game he was basically double checking to make sure the refs did what he asked them to do. Again - he's not allowed to do that, which is why he was deceptive when asked.

. This one takes the

[Bad Morty]

. This one takes the

eh..if you thought about for a second and removed your bias, it actually makes a lot of sense. What part of it doesn't make sense? I know McNally was lying, and you know that the science isn't a slam dunk that the balls were deflated.

 

Why is it out of the realm of possibility that the guy wasn't gauging the balls (illegally) to make sure the refs set them to the right level, given that the "flash-point" incident per the Wells report seemed to be a game where the refs DIDN'T do it right? I have no doubt that had McNally found the balls to be at 13PSI that he would have let air out of them to get them to 12.5...but it doesn't (and never did) pass the logic test to me that they would be running a scheme to take 0.2 - 0.3 PSI out of balls (which is the worst case scenario in the Wells report). Hell - the officials gauges alone, depending on which one they used, had a 0.4 PSI variation. If they were trying to take air out of the balls to gain an advantage, those balls would have all been down significantly below where they should have been and we wouldn't be here picking at minutae.

[dynasty13]

I hear ya.  And if that were the case, it would really compromise their findings.  But for the other piece of information, it appears as though Anderson was more confident, so they took his word for it.  For example, when they describe what Anderson says happened on the day of the game, they write the following:

We credit Anderson‟s recollection of the pre-game measurements taken on the day of  the AFC  Championship  Game based  on  both  the level  of  confidence  Anderson expressed in his recollection and the consistency of his recollection with information provided by each of the Patriots and Colts regarding their target inflation levels

 

So he was very confident in remembering those details, but also explicitly stated that it's very possible he used the non-logo gauge.

 

Without a transcript of the discussion though, how can we assume that he was any less confident in his recollection of the gauge he used? It sounds to me like he was pretty darn confident and accurate when describing all the details

 

It's entirely plausible that the discussion went like this:

 

Wells: And which gauge did you use when measuring the Patriots' footballs before the game?

Anderson: My best recollection is that I used the logo-gauge.

Wells: Is it possible that you used the non-logo gauge?

Anderson: It's certainly possible.

 

That doesn't sound like a lack of confidence...and it certainly sounds like Anderson believes that it was 'more probable than not' that he used the logo gauge. It's just odd that Wells went out of his way to credit Anderson's ability to remember every other detail so well, but then just decided that Anderson was wrong about this one memory when he was apparently dead on about all the others. 

[crazycolt1]

Again, your whole argument is based on a presumption of guilt.

Which has not been proven at all.

The reason there is a presumption of guilt is Brady and his responses. Had Brady cooperated with the NFL he would have drew his token fine and none of us would be going through this. Kraft stood behind Brady at first till Brady himself refused to cooperate. By Brady's comments and his refusal to cooperate caused this whole mess. It cost Kraft a millions dollars and the team two draft picks. It also brought a four game suspension pending an appeal to himself. Belichick immediately said it was on Brady from the very start. Kraft and his comments about his decision not to take this any farther was for the good of the NFL is nonsense. It don't take a rocket scientist to know it was said to save face to the Patriots fans and the media. Did Kraft want to take this to court and face the possibility of Brady's phone and records being subpoenaed? Did Kraft want the two equipment men to be subpoenaed into court and have to testify under oath? These are common sense questions and need to be answered. With no answers no one can be blamed for having a presumption of guilt because the parties involved are acting like they have something to hide. It is not unfair for people to think that when a person does not cooperate there is something to hide. Like it or not that is the way things work.

[dw49]

Yep that pretty much sums up this hatchet job.

 

 

No offense .. but I would suggest you VL and  Morty PM each other. It's 100% evident that you'll change no ones mind on this board.

The big difference I believe is , other than NE fans , no one believes there is a conspiracy to take the Pats down. Other words .. Goodall didn't really say  "here's 5 million .. come back saying NE and Brady are guilty." 

 

How much can we go over the same stuff ? And besides that .. to be honest ...you all have been wrong at every prediction made on this thus far. 

[Swan Ronson]

No offense .. but I would suggest you VL and  Morty PM each other. It's 100% evident that you'll change no ones mind on this board.

The big difference I believe is , other than NE fans , no one believes there is a conspiracy to take the Pats down. Other words .. Goodall didn't really say  "here's 5 million .. come back saying NE and Brady are guilty." 

 

How much can we go over the same stuff ? And besides that .. to be honest ...you all have been wrong at every prediction made on this thus far. 

That's probably the best suggestion of this whole sorry situation. Despite all the protestations of not liking how mean the Colts fans are being since January, every little update and anything backing the Patriots is posted on here knowing full well what the reaction will be. If one didn't know better it would almost look like they are trying to provoke that reaction.

[dw49]

. This one takes the

 

 

Yeah.. I mean if they want to be silly that's fine. Each thread is more ridiculous than the last. 

[southwest1]

The other thing that perplexes me is this: What magical evidence is Brady going to present at his appeal with Roger Goodell listening across from him? I had no knowledge of what 2 equipment guys I've known for years were actually doing? Roger doesn't wanna hear any excuses. He's going to ask Brady point blank: Give me a good reason why you chose not to turn your phone over to Ted Wells when you agreed previously to fully comply with this investigation? Why would you object to this request Tom when Mr. Wells agreed to work thru your attorney to get the relevant text messages? Do you believe you are entitled to special treatment simply because you are a HOF QB? These rules or codes of conduct apply to everyone in the league equally no exceptions. 

 

Roger is also going to ask Tom: If you were in my position right now as Commissioner of the Natl. Football League, would you be lenient to a QB who stonewalled & refused to turn over what the investigator asked for? Winning the AFC Championship Game in the dominant fashion that your club did was impressive & also irrelevant to the fact that a known rule was indeed broken. That's why we sent out referees to every NFL club during OTAs & minicamp to remind & educate coaches & players what the rules during any given season are. Roger wants to see some contrition & humility that Brady made a mistake & he accepts responsibility for it as the face of the Patriots franchise. He doesn't care about the ideal gas law, environmental conditions, or measurement gauges. Okay, I'm sure he'll chat with Walt Anderson & tell him to write down in record keeping form any football readings he takes from this point forward. 

 

Honestly, Tom's not bringing new to the appeal table here other than I messed up, please forgive me, & if you split the baby in 2 cutting my penalty in half, I promise you Roger this will never transpire/unfold again. If Tom refuses to show humility & an acknowledgement of some responsibility here, I will guarantee that Goodell will be upset & maintain the original 4 game suspension in lock step. 

[amfootball]

No offense .. but I would suggest you VL and  Morty PM each other. It's 100% evident that you'll change no ones mind on this board.

The big difference I believe is , other than NE fans , no one believes there is a conspiracy to take the Pats down. Other words .. Goodall didn't really say  "here's 5 million .. come back saying NE and Brady are guilty." 

 

How much can we go over the same stuff ? And besides that .. to be honest ...you all have been wrong at every prediction made on this thus far. 

Yeah, probably time to take this off-line until appeal ruling.

[ViriLudant]

VL,

In all honesty, let me ask you a question: At what point does arguing over a minor air pressure infraction rise to the level of high crimes & misdemeanors?

Here's my point: Is it really necessary to defend Tommy Brady so passionately that in all likelihood he will only end up missing only 2 games max? Do you honestly believe you are freeing a wrongly convicted man from death row? What's more wise? To ride thru hades to defend a beloved HOF QB or just go it's only 2 games & NE isn't going fall apart at the seams? The Matt Cassel experiment in 2008 proved that. And why aren't any NE fans mad at Tom Brady for saying himself that he doesn't believe he's a cheater? Your fearless leader opened the door to question his ability to defend himself & his integrity no one else did that.

I believe Brady is a honorable guy, but who when asked about cheating directly says "I don't think so?" He's been in the spotlight for over a decade so you can't pass that response off as stage fright jitters. IS it possible he just didn't wanna throw the 2 NE equipment guys under the bus? Sure it is. Being asked if you are a cheater is in the same vein as did you inappropriately touch someone else. You pound your fist at the podium, don't smirk, & say with a hint of anger look this assumption that I might be a cheater is utterly ridiculous. I'm offended by the accusation. I understand why the question must be asked but I can tell you with absolute certainty that I love this game & would never under any circumstances compromise my good name, my integrity, or this franchises reputation in any way, shape, or form. You either dig your heels in like a general about to die but you go down swinging or you go I made a mistake, I need to clarify my position, & I can assure you this misunderstanding of the rules was my fault & will never happen under my watch ever again.

This isn't about the Wells Report at all, but Tom's ability to engage in damage control by taking the brunt of the heat here. A 2 game suspension is not the last stand at the Alamo with Davy Crockett. Some Patriots fans seem to be acting like it is though which is crazy & yet sad to me. JMO.

The irony here is tremendous.

You are still presuming guilt. And hence that's your ENTIRE slant.

The WP came out today with another article shredding Deflategate.

Man, so many Patriot fans all over the country publishing articles in so many different journals!

[Bad Morty]

No offense .. but I would suggest you VL and  Morty PM each other. It's 100% evident that you'll change no ones mind on this board.

The big difference I believe is , other than NE fans , no one believes there is a conspiracy to take the Pats down. Other words .. Goodall didn't really say  "here's 5 million .. come back saying NE and Brady are guilty." 

 

How much can we go over the same stuff ? And besides that .. to be honest ...you all have been wrong at every prediction made on this thus far. 

you must not have read the AEI report, the Washington Post article, or numerous other scientific critiques. Repeating "only Patriots Fans think this was a set-up" doesn't make it reality.

[southwest1]

This debate is seriously starting to remind me of the 9/11 truther debates, where we have people from both sides talking about scientific statistical points that they don't understand themselves, only parroting what google will hand them. 

 

This whole thing, the Wells report, is akin to a Rorschach Test. You see what you want to see when you look at it. 

 

 

Is that Tom Brady deflating a football? Is that the NFL wrongly persecuting the Patriots? Is that a butterfly with AIDS?

I love this post because it points out the far fetched notions some Patriots fans will cling to to quarantine their QB from even the slightest inkling of wrong doing over a maximum 4 game suspension. 

 

--Brady has never lied in his illustrious decade plus HOF career. Ah, his career is not relevant to the discussion of what occurred during an AFC Championship game people. Focus & don't get distracted by shiny objects of distraction like a cat hitting a christmas tree ornament with it's paw okay. 

 

--The league paid Ted Wells to write a "hatchet job" to frame NE & made them look horrible. No, the league paid a law firm to compile a report not reach a specific predestined conclusion. 

 

--It's a bird, it's a plane, it's Super Hero Brady able to leap building, throw touchdowns, & rescue small children from harm. Isn't he just swell? Um sorry, does Tommy bear any responsibility at all for the predicament he finds himself in at all? Just curious...

 

--Do Patriots fans mumble gauges, gas law, & Goodell in anger when they toss & turn at night? It sure feels like it. 

 

--Let's all get our pitch forks & torches & shout angry statements at anyone who doesn't blindly support Tom Brady NE fans. Off to toilet paper the Commissioner's house now. "Remember The Alamo!" Here's your theme song: 

 

[jvan1973]

I am not mentioning it. Sal mentioned it as one of the four points Brady's legal team is using in his defense to get the suspension over turned. The logic is quite simple. The rules book says the fine is not limited to $25 k for the TEAM. Never has a player ever been fined or disciplined in the history of the league for ball tampering. The CBA is clear that the league has to rule fairly and consistently with its discipline toward players. So you can see how this would be a big point in the appeal to help Brady's case.

He is being suspended for non cooperation.

[southwest1]

The irony here is tremendous.

You are still presuming guilt. And hence that's your ENTIRE slant.

The WP came out today with another article shredding Deflategate.

Man, so many Patriot fans all over the country publishing articles in so many different journals!

I love how you failed to even address my central thesis VL: Tom Brady swing the "I don't think so" cheater door wide open all by himself, he had a horrible press conference, only Brady can fix this, & all you can do is lean on the Wells Report & claim all it's findings are wrong. That wasn't the argument I was even making, but that's okay denial is a nice tropical paradise isn't it? 

 

A marvelous place to visit on holiday mentally, but you cannot reside there forever now can you? Hmmm....Enjoy your margarita as you chill in your chair on the sand VL. 

[ViriLudant]

Do you really think Brady is going to take this case to the US Circuit Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court AMF? The CBA won't permit that & even if it did Brady would come across as the biggest darn cry baby on the planet. LOL! I kind of wish he could though in a way because he would be compelled to turn over his phone then. So, what the hades go for it. I'm game.

On the contrary AMF, Brady is at the epicenter of this self induced hurricane & also Tommy's global stature works against him now not in his favor. That doesn't mean he's automatically guilty yes I agree, but his clout or winning record in terms of multiple championships doesn't mean he is perfection personified & beyond reproach either.

This case boils down to 1 thing & 1 thing only: Brady's deliberate decision to not come clean, cooperate with the NFL, or turn over his phone. Had Brady complied & told the truth this story would be dead & buried by now. You know it, I know it, & everybody in America knows it.

You still don't get it.

You are assuming guilt.

Every.

Single.

Time.

Would Brady push this through court, something that he doesn't have to do, if he were guilty?

And yes, he will push this as far as he can.

[southwest1]

You still don't get it.

You are assuming guilt.

Every.

Single.

Time.

Would Brady push this through court, something that he doesn't have to do, if he were guilty?

And yes, he will push this as far as he can.

Okay, just for laughs & giggles I'll play along. What evidence not speculation & innuendo do you have in your possession to exonerate Brady? It's not enough to claim over & over again that I am biased in my position so are you if we are being completely candid here. My issue is with Tom Brady not gauges & not PSI measurements. He put his own caboose in a sling. I sure didn't. 

 

Enlighten me with your brilliance VL oh exulted one. [sarcasm intended BTW]...Not only that, wouldn't a prolonged legal battle mean that Brady would miss more than 4 games this season as he mounted his legal defense against this perceived miscarrage of justice in his mind? Hmmm...

[ViriLudant]

I love how you failed to even address my central thesis VL: Tom Brady swing the "I don't think so" cheater door wide open all by himself, he had a horrible press conference, only Brady can fix this, & all you can do is lean on the Wells Report & claim all it's findings are wrong. That wasn't the argument I was even making, but that's okay denial is a nice tropical paradise isn't it?

A marvelous place to visit on holiday mentally, but you cannot reside there forever now can you? Hmmm....Enjoy your margarita as you chill in your chair on the sand VL.

So he's guilty because of a press conference .

You've got to be kidding me.

Remind me never to hire you as my lawyer.

[ViriLudant]

Okay, just for laughs & giggles I'll play along. What evidence not speculation & innuendo do you have in your possession to exonerate Brady? It's not enough to claim over & over again that I am biased in my position so are you if we are being completely candid here. My issue is with Tom Brady not gauges & not PSI measurements. He put his own caboose in a sling. I sure didn't.

Enlighten me with your brilliance VL oh exulted one. [sarcasm intended BTW]...Not only that, wouldn't a prolonged legal battle mean that Brady would miss more than 4 games this season as he mounted his legal defense against this perceived miscarrage of justice in his mind? Hmmm...

Yet your only evidence , apparently , is a press conference.

ROFL

It would be nice if you actually read any of those articles absolutely shredding Deflategate.

But you won't, because ignorance is bliss.