Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[crazycolt1]

Someone else who doesn't understand facts. Awesome .

Did the witch float?

There are literally dozens of articles ripping the Wells Report apart. Scientists from various credible institutions, etc.

Versus a company that says that cigarettes don't contribute to lung cancer.

Yet all we have are Colt fans sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming "LA LA LA!"

So economist are scientist now?

[crazycolt1]

Someone else who doesn't understand facts. Awesome .

Did the witch float?

There are literally dozens of articles ripping the Wells Report apart. Scientists from various credible institutions, etc.

Versus a company that says that cigarettes don't contribute to lung cancer.

Yet all we have are Colt fans sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming "LA LA LA!"

So the Wells report lied because they were out to get the Patriots? Awesome!

[Flying Elvis]

The Wells Report could only come to two conclusions; bury Brady or bury the NFL. The NFL paid them $5 million to be unbiased. Lol!

[Swan Ronson]

The Wells Report could only come to two conclusions; bury Brady or bury the NFL. The NFL paid them $5 million to be unbiased. Lol!

False dichotomy.

[Bad Morty]

Never said I dismissed it, more spin/deflecting I suppose.  I only question the qualifications of economists doing this type of study with no reference that anyone with better credentials being involved.  As I stated earlier it would be normal protocol to reference who did the testing if it was by another party, i.e. a physicist/lab.  Also, the fact that the lead author happens to hail from Massachusetts, which could lead one to questioning his motives.  It could be all innocent omissions or it may mean that the AEI report is written by people not qualified and are biased.

ok - so you are NOT dismissing the report, then. You are just saying that you believe the scientific tests in the report were performed by economists, not scientists, and that the people who authored the report have a tie to Massachusetts and are therefore willing to throw the credibility they worked their entire careers to earn out the window because they are upset that a football player got a suspension?

[Nadine]

I don't suppose people will ever get tired of arguing about this huh?  Aint nobody changing their mind, right?  I mean like EVER

[21isSuperman]

Stop and ask yourself why this research organization with vast amounts of academic resources and a sterling track record would publish this thorough and detailed analysis concluding that the Wells report didn't properly account for the re-inflation of the Colts balls in the ambient room temperature during half-time while "internet guy" says "yes they did - it's right there in the Wells report!!!!"

 

I have read what you posted several times. Of COURSE Wells believes this was accounted for...but if you bothered to read the AEI report with any objectivity, you would see why they believe Wells is flat out wrong...his methods were flawed, therefore his results and conclusions are flawed. It's not that difficult to understand. People just don't want to understand it because it destroys a narrative they want desperately to believe in.

 

Nobody deflated any footballs. I said that from day 1, and I'm saying it now.

Sterling track record?  Did you even read the link you posted in the first post?  The link explicitly states that AEI has a history of bending their findings to fit what their donors want to see.  Honestly, it looks like you're not even reading what I post or even what you post, so until you actually do that, I can't see us having a productive discussion about this.  Anything you've posted, I've countered.  Yet, you ignore my comments and repeat what you said before.  Clearly, you didn't read the Wells report with any objectivity (or at all).

 

ROFL

Wells was PAID to "prove" that the Patriots cheated.

Let's disregard that the science has been disproven by multiple credible institutions.

Or the fact that Tagliabue asked for AEI to help make a decision in BountyGate.

Yep, facts again. They're troublesome for those with an anti-Pats agenda.

The science has been disproven?  Can you please provide me with links that show that?  Can you also please explain how BountyGate is relevant here?  AEI posted a counter-report to the Wells report where they try to invalidate what the Wells report found.  But if you actually read the Wells report, they took into consideration what the AEI report says.  The major quip appears to be that you cannot tell when the Pats balls and Colts balls were measured.  However, you do know how long halftime was, so you can recreate the conditions and see what you get.  For example, if halftime is 13 mins long, and it takes 18 mins for something to occur, then you know that probably didn't happen given the time constraints.

[ColtRider]

I don't suppose people will ever get tired of arguing about this huh?  Aint nobody changing their mind, right?  I mean like EVER

Yes, Nadine. I'm sure you're right about that.

Seems as though this has provided more intense live entertainment than Colts v. Patriots on the actual field of play. However, the rest of the country trends to believe the truth of it. They did it. They got caught. They paid for it. The rest is smoke & mirrors from certain members of a fan base that _refuse_ to accept facts pointed directly at guilt, no matter what the consequences or cost.

[amfootball]

He wasn't asked to hand over his phone... you been talking to Morty ?

I know just contents of his phone. Same thing though. He was asked to give over info from his private phone. As a union member, he is under no authority to do so to an "independent" investigator like Wells. And Vincent made it clear that he was being punished for the knowledge of the deflation not his lack of cooperation. But as I said, the precedent of this punishment is what he is fighting above just his guilt or innocence. That is why the PA wants this in court so it can use it to show Roger/league once again abusing their power and potentially getting the CBA discipline process over turned.

[crazycolt1]

You may not be shooting the messenger, but you are reaching at straws trying to claim that AEI isn't a credible independent source. The authors are economists...you have said this twice now. Do you seriously believe that the organization didn't have actual scientists perform the scientific analysis described in their report? They have resources available to them in every academic discipline, so you can be certain that physicists performed the scientific studies. It's also a stretch to believe that the organization would put it's entire existence on the line because one of their researchers is an angry Patriots fan who grew up in Massachusetts and is mad about the NFL.

 

So instead of trying to discredit an organization with unquestionable credentials, why not think about what they are saying? Because it makes a lot of sense....you don't have to be a scientist to know that a football measured immediately after coming in from the cold can't really be compared to one that warmed up for 15 minutes before being measured. The Wells report ignored this in order to reach a conclusion. There's no denying this now.

Unquestionable credentials? You mean the same company who said that women don't need to worry about date rape? Report at www.huffington...n6022252.html.

[Gramz]

[DougDew]

Exponent's science report was commissioned by Wells and the NFL office. AEI's science report was commissioned by the NFLPA, who has interest in seeing these penalties overturned. Neither group are completely "impartial" and both were paid to find a conclusion that leads to a predetermined outcome that contradict the other.

I'll quote this snippet from your very good post.

As I said before...science, schmience...people use the word way too liberally these days, and put way too much emphasis on science. Typically now, science is being used as a debate tactic to offer supporting arguments for a person's opinion...an opinion that has already been determined by something else.

True science has no predetermined opinion, usually only a theory that is eventually disproved. Science oftentimes...in fact most times.....never finds the truth. What happens is the process measures what it can measure based upon the data at hand, and oftentimes that process fails to prove or conclude anything...so science stops short of forming a conclusion.

Most of the time, people who commission scientific studies do so because they want answers. But wanting answers does not guarantee that science will provided them with answers. When science can't provide them with the truth about what happened, we are left to extrapolate a conclusion from the evidence.

The proper way to use science in this debate is to say that science was inconclusive, it did not prove what happened, it could not determine the truth. But since we still want answers, we continue with other-than-science processes to form a conclusion...and that is perfectly legitimate. In this case, the factors involved are...who stood to benefit, who had opportunity, previous history, integrity or lack thereof of the people involved, etc. combined with what the science says, or didn't say.

Its a simple but bogus debate tactic to say..."since science doesn't prove what happened, we can't form a conclusion and punish the perpetrators". If we had to rely only upon science to form conclusions, we wouldn't form many conclusions about anything since most of the time all of the data simply isn't there.

[amfootball]

I'll quote this snippet from your very good post.

As I said before...science, schmience...people use the word way too liberally these days, and put way too much emphasis on science. Typically now, science is being used as a debate tactic to offer supporting arguments for a person's opinion...an opinion that has already been determined by something else.

True science has no predetermined opinion, usually only a theory that is eventually disproved. Science oftentimes...in fact most times.....never finds the truth. What happens is the process measures what it can measure based upon the data at hand, and oftentimes that process fails to prove or conclude anything...so science stops short of forming a conclusion.

Most of the time, people who commission scientific studies do so because they want answers. But wanting answers does not guarantee that science will provided them with answers. When science can't provide them with the truth about what happened, (which is most things in life) we are left to extrapolate a conclusion from the evidence, because we want a conclusion.

The proper way to use science in this debate is to say that science was inconclusive. But since we still need answers, we use other-than-science processes to form a conclusion. In this case, the factors involved are...who stood to benefit, who had opportunity, previous history, integrity or lack thereof of the people involved, etc. combined with what the science says, or didn't say.

Its a simple but bogus debate tactic to say..."since science doesn't prove what happened, we can't form a conclusion and punish the perpetrators". If we had to rely only upon science to form conclusions, we wouldn't form many conclusions about anything.

Air ball pressure is 100 percent based on science. The reason the science here is inconclusive is because the NFL screwed up the test case scenario once they allowed the teams to play with the balls for a full half of football out in the pouring rain and then had a ref that supposedly could not remember which gauge he used or was coerced more to the point that he did not know which one. All the Wells report really proved without a doubt was the incompetence of the league and its ridiculously poor procedures for ball handling which was never something they ever cared about until Jan. 18.

[crazycolt1]

I don't suppose people will ever get tired of arguing about this huh?  Aint nobody changing their mind, right?  I mean like EVER

You are more than likely right. Most can debate (argue) till hades freezes over but the facts are not going to change. When this all started most of the Patriots fans thought that this was going to get shredded in court. That didn't happen. The finale facts are Kraft has been fined $1,250,000. Belichick has been fined $500,000. The Patriots have had 3 draft picks taken away. Brady is facing a 4 game suspension pending appeal. The Patriots have been found guilty two times of action detrimental to the league. This whole last matter could have all been avoided had Brady came forward with any information to clear himself. He is the one who brought this upon Kraft and the Patriots. These are the facts that some Patriot fans refuse to accept. It really makes no difference at this point because this is the bottom line.

[Cynjin]

ok - so you are NOT dismissing the report, then. You are just saying that you believe the scientific tests in the report were performed by economists, not scientists, and that the people who authored the report have a tie to Massachusetts and are therefore willing to throw the credibility they worked their entire careers to earn out the window because they are upset that a football player got a suspension?

 

I really have a hard time understanding how you got any of that from what I wrote.  The only thing correct in your statement is that I am not dismissing the report.

[Flying Elvis]

The science by itself proves nothing. The texts by themselves prove nothing. Put them together and you may have something. Wells argues it is more probable than not. All that means is 51% probable, 49% not probable.

 

The rest of the country believes guilt because they want to and they buy what the media and talking heads tell them. Most of them were uninformed about spygate. Most of them are uninformed about deflategate.

 

Spygate - From Goodell -  "I don't think it tSaints their accomplishments. I don't believe it affected the outcome of any games."

 

Deflategate - There's a good chance nothing happened.

[crazycolt1]

I know just contents of his phone. Same thing though. He was asked to give over info from his private phone. As a union member, he is under no authority to do so to an "independent" investigator like Wells. And Vincent made it clear that he was being punished for the knowledge of the deflation not his lack of cooperation. But as I said, the precedent of this punishment is what he is fighting above just his guilt or innocence. That is why the PA wants this in court so it can use it to show Roger/league once again abusing their power and potentially getting the CBA discipline process over turned.

This will not go to court. Brady does not want his phone and records subpoenaed in court. Kraft does not want the two equipment men subpoenaed into court and have to testify under oath. I say go right ahead. If Brady has nothing to hide then prove it in a court of law. The punishment was from not cooperating not the infraction. Brady had the chance to defend himself and he is the one who chose not to. He cost Kraft 1 million dollars, 2 draft picks and got himself a 4 game suspension pending an appeal. We can all have opinions of exactly what happened but it was Brady's actions that has caused all of this. Kraft and Brady did not take this serious but the NFL did.

[amfootball]

This will not go to court. Brady does not want his phone and records subpoenaed in court. Kraft does not want the two equipment men subpoenaed into court and have to testify under oath. I say go right ahead. If Brady has nothing to hide then prove it in a court of law. The punishment was from not cooperating not the infraction. Brady had the chance to defend himself and he is the one who chose not to. He cost Kraft 1 million dollars, 2 draft picks and got himself a 4 game suspension pending an appeal. We can all have opinions of exactly what happened but it was Brady's actions that has caused all of this. Kraft and Brady did not take this serious but the NFL did.

We will find out soon enough. Those close to Brady have said he is fighting this down to zero. You don't hire Keesler to accept a reduced suspension especially with how the Wells report has been ripped apart ...

[Swan Ronson]

The science by itself proves nothing. The texts by themselves prove nothing. Put them together and you may have something. Wells argues it is more probable than not. All that means is 51% probable, 49% not probable.

 

The rest of the country believes guilt because they want to and they buy what the media and talking heads tell them. Most of them were uninformed about spygate. Most of them are uninformed about deflategate.

 

Spygate - From Goodell -  "I don't think it tSaints their accomplishments. I don't believe it affected the outcome of any games."

 

Deflategate - There's a good chance nothing happened.

That's not what it means at all. It means it is more than 50 per cent likely, but it could be way higher. 

[pgt_rob]

We will find out soon enough. Those close to Brady have said he is fighting this down to zero. You don't hire Keesler to accept a reduced suspension especially with how the Wells report has been ripped apart ...

 

There's a first for everything. This Keesler guy, whoever he is, will lose tom bradys appeal. I will almost guarantee it.

[amfootball]

There's a first for everything. This Keesler guy, whoever he is, will lose tom bradys appeal. I will almost guarantee it.

The appeal, sure. I agree. Goodell does not take a game off IMO no matter who the lawyer is. But in court, Keesler has a great chance of winning.

[pgt_rob]

The appeal, sure. I agree. Goodell does not take a game off IMO no matter who the lawyer is. But in court, Keesler has a great chance of winning.

 

Eh... He might have a chance but I don't know about great.

[Bad Morty]

I'll quote this snippet from your very good post.

As I said before...science, schmience...people use the word way too liberally these days, and put way too much emphasis on science. Typically now, science is being used as a debate tactic to offer supporting arguments for a person's opinion...an opinion that has already been determined by something else.

True science has no predetermined opinion, usually only a theory that is eventually disproved. Science oftentimes...in fact most times.....never finds the truth. What happens is the process measures what it can measure based upon the data at hand, and oftentimes that process fails to prove or conclude anything...so science stops short of forming a conclusion.

Most of the time, people who commission scientific studies do so because they want answers. But wanting answers does not guarantee that science will provided them with answers. When science can't provide them with the truth about what happened, we are left to extrapolate a conclusion from the evidence.

The proper way to use science in this debate is to say that science was inconclusive, it did not prove what happened, it could not determine the truth. But since we still want answers, we continue with other-than-science processes to form a conclusion...and that is perfectly legitimate. In this case, the factors involved are...who stood to benefit, who had opportunity, previous history, integrity or lack thereof of the people involved, etc. combined with what the science says, or didn't say.

Its a simple but bogus debate tactic to say..."since science doesn't prove what happened, we can't form a conclusion and punish the perpetrators". If we had to rely only upon science to form conclusions, we wouldn't form many conclusions about anything since most of the time all of the data simply isn't there.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, and it actually gets to the core of why this story never made a lot of sense to me, particularly from the "who stood to benefit" angle. Let's forget the new report here and just go with the absolute worst case scenario for the Patriots, that being that the non-logo gauge was the gauge used pre-game to set the Patriots balls to 12.5 (despite Walt Anderson remembering that he used the other gauge)...per the Wells report, the ideal gas law would have predicted that the Patriots balls should have deflated to 11.3 PSI given the conditions. According to the halftime readings of the non-logo gauge, 3 of the 11 Pats balls were over that limit, 3 others were at 11.1 (0.2 PSI lower than expected), 2 were at 10.95 (0.35 PSI) and the last 3 were at 10.85, 10.7, and 10.5....so in other words, ONE ball measured as much as 0.5 PSI lower than expected if you believe the non-logo gauge was used.

 

Do you buy for one second that the Patriots would risk the crap-storm that they have gotten here in order to take a fraction of a PSI out of SOME of their footballs? It makes no sense. If there was a scheme to deflate balls in place, every damn ball would be significantly lower than expected. There's no point in risking what you think they risked to get such an infinitesimal reduction in psi.

[Lawrence Owen]

Eh... He might have a chance but I don't know about great.

It won't go to court..i have said it multiple times.  No way.  If they did they would bury themselves further.  And I have already given the reasons, but no-one wants to acknowledge the reasons i have given.  So I guess this is the last time i will attempt to show the reasoning.  But i would sell my season tickets for a $1 if Brady did file a court appeal. (because I am that confident it won't happen)  Thy maybe cheaters..but they are not so stupid to put themselves in a no-win situation.  As soon as the Judge orders Brady to turn over his phone records, And he says "no", or "he cannot", he would be found in contempt.  PLUS the courts can ORDER the service carrier to turn over those records even AFTER Brady denies them.  No way Brady or his lawyers would willingly put themselves in that situation.

[pgt_rob]

It won't go to court..i have said it multiple times.  No way.  If they did they would bury themselves further.  And I have already given the reasons, but no-one wants to acknowledge the reasons i have given.  So I guess this is the last time i will attempt to show the reasoning.  But i would sell my season tickets for a $1 if Brady did file a court appeal. (because I am that confident it won't happen)  Thy maybe cheaters..but they are not so stupid to put themselves in a no-win situation.  As soon as the Judge orders Brady to turn over his phone records, And he says "no", or "he cannot", he would be found in contempt.  PLUS the courts can ORDER the service carrier to turn over those records even AFTER Brady denies them.  No way Brady or his lawyers would willingly put themselves in that situation.

 

Yeah. And then there's this. Good points.

[Lawrence Owen]

There was no reason to not share his phone records other than he was covering something up.  Even if he had sensitive info not bearing to the investigation.  IDC if he was having late night sexcapades with Arnold Schwarzenegger.  Had any info not bearing to the investigation had "leaked out", that would put a HUGE blemish on the Wells investigators.  PLUS Brady would then be able to sue them for more $$$ than he could get out of a 5 year contract.  So, it is "more probable than not" he is definitely hiding something of bearing to the investigation.

 

Trying to convince anyone otherwise is not lying to yourselves, it is insulting the intelligence of every man woman and child whom watches football.

[dw49]

I know just contents of his phone. Same thing though. He was asked to give over info from his private phone. As a union member, he is under no authority to do so to an "independent" investigator like Wells. And Vincent made it clear that he was being punished for the knowledge of the deflation not his lack of cooperation. But as I said, the precedent of this punishment is what he is fighting above just his guilt or innocence. That is why the PA wants this in court so it can use it to show Roger/league once again abusing their power and potentially getting the CBA discipline process over turned.

 

 

Doesn't seem unreasonable to ask his attorney to look for any emails regarding the case. If I were innocent , I would have no problem with that

[Lawrence Owen]

Unquestionable credentials? You mean the same company who said that women don't need to worry about date rape? Report at www.huffington...n6022252.html.

did you see this from my post earlier? or find it on your own?...lol just curious.

[21isSuperman]

The science by itself proves nothing. The texts by themselves prove nothing. Put them together and you may have something. Wells argues it is more probable than not. All that means is 51% probable, 49% not probable.

 

The rest of the country believes guilt because they want to and they buy what the media and talking heads tell them. Most of them were uninformed about spygate. Most of them are uninformed about deflategate.

 

Spygate - From Goodell -  "I don't think it tSaints their accomplishments. I don't believe it affected the outcome of any games."

 

Deflategate - There's a good chance nothing happened.

You must not have read the Wells report

[amfootball]

Doesn't seem unreasonable to ask his attorney to look for any emails regarding the case. If I were innocent , I would have no problem with that

I tend to agree but the only thing that makes me hesitate is what Yee said. They understood Wells was there as a prosecutor to find them guilty vs an independent investigator. So any texts that were as innocent as could be would be construed by Wells as evidence of guilt. And of course the report was constructed that way as well with every single inference going against the Pats so probably smart to stone wall and take the consequences.

 

The part that does not sit right with me is why did they need Brady's phone info. if they had the phones of the ball boys? It is not like Brady would be discussing football air pressure with anyone but those two. If there was any history of Brady liking his footballs below 12.5 surely they would have found it on those two guys phones. As it was Wells went hunting for over 100 days trying to find some history of ball deflation and found nada. That is really the point with me that makes me believe those balls were not tampered with besides the obvious flaw in the science that Wells tried to use to make his flimsy case.

[crazycolt1]

We will find out soon enough. Those close to Brady have said he is fighting this down to zero. You don't hire Keesler to accept a reduced suspension especially with how the Wells report has been ripped apart ...

It's only a matter of opinion if the Wells report has been ripped apart. I say let them all go to court. Let a civil court decide who will be subpoenaed into court. Brady's phone and records. The two equipment men all will be under oath. We shall see who knows what.

[dw49]

I tend to agree but the only thing that makes me hesitate is what Yee said. They understood Wells was there as a prosecutor to find them guilty vs an independent investigator. So any texts that were as innocent as could be would be construed by Wells as evidence of guilt. And of course the report was constructed that way as well with every single inference going against the Pats so probably smart to stone wall and take the consequences.

 

The part that does not sit right with me is why did they need Brady's phone info. if they had the phones of the ball boys? It is not like Brady would be discussing football air pressure with anyone but those two. If there was any history of Brady liking his footballs below 12.5 surely they would have found it on those two guys phones. As it was Wells went hunting for over 100 days trying to find some history of ball deflation and found nada. That is really the point with me that makes me believe those balls were not tampered with besides the obvious flaw in the science that Wells tried to use to make his flimsy case.

 

 

Does it seem at all strange that Grigson would say the Pats were using undernflated balls for a long time and he wanted it stopped ? Your thinking he just pulled that out of his coulee. So that's an accident.. like the text that talk about the delator , like the trip to the pee room after the balls were checked. Then the balls indeed measure under the limit while the Colts do not . Yeah Ok ..the Colts balls were check like after the Pats... Yeah... that explains everything. My God AM .. put on top of all that your guy looked as guilty as all hell ." Uhh.. mmmm ... I don't think I broke rules.?" Maybe Virdulant is right ..? It was the Colts that deflated the intercepted ball ? I mean how much of a jerk would Grigson be by making that up ? And then how "unlucky" could the Pats be that all that evidence (circumstantial ) happened to show up. 

[Gramz]

There are still a few unanswered questions.

 

One in particular......

 

Why did the Pats Organization refuse to let Wells interview McNally for a second time?

[DougDew]

Air ball pressure is 100 percent based on science. The reason the science here is inconclusive is because the NFL screwed up the test case scenario once they allowed the teams to play with the balls for a full half of football out in the pouring rain and then had a ref that supposedly could not remember which gauge he used or was coerced more to the point that he did not know which one. All the Wells report really proved without a doubt was the incompetence of the league and its ridiculously poor procedures for ball handling which was never something they ever cared about until Jan. 18.

I'm not getting into the science, because neither one of us knows the science behind it. We just choose to believe what we want and try to use "science" as a basis for claiming our opinion is more intelligent than the next guys.

Nobody can prove what happened. Just like in the Hernandez murder case. But not being able to prove what happened does not and should not prevent intelligent people from forming reasonable conclusions and inflicting just punishment.

When guilty people know that the science won't prove them guilty, they want to try to use science as the basis for determining guilt.

[DougDew]

I don't necessarily disagree with this, and it actually gets to the core of why this story never made a lot of sense to me, particularly from the "who stood to benefit" angle. Let's forget the new report here and just go with the absolute worst case scenario for the Patriots, that being that the non-logo gauge was the gauge used pre-game to set the Patriots balls to 12.5 (despite Walt Anderson remembering that he used the other gauge)...per the Wells report, the ideal gas law would have predicted that the Patriots balls should have deflated to 11.3 PSI given the conditions. According to the halftime readings of the non-logo gauge, 3 of the 11 Pats balls were over that limit, 3 others were at 11.1 (0.2 PSI lower than expected), 2 were at 10.95 (0.35 PSI) and the last 3 were at 10.85, 10.7, and 10.5....so in other words, ONE ball measured as much as 0.5 PSI lower than expected if you believe the non-logo gauge was used.

 

Do you buy for one second that the Patriots would risk the crap-storm that they have gotten here in order to take a fraction of a PSI out of SOME of their footballs? It makes no sense. If there was a scheme to deflate balls in place, every damn ball would be significantly lower than expected. There's no point in risking what you think they risked to get such an infinitesimal reduction in psi.

Risk a fire storm? Personally, I think the most plausible scenario is that Brady has been doing it for a long time, and players and some coaches and execs knew all about it for a long time. Just like the McGuire Sosa roid HR derby, everybody knew, but the cheating benefitted the interest in the game, and indirectly benefitted everyone.

Also, calling out Brady over the years would just sound like sour grapes on the part of the losers, because there was never any real way of proving the conduct. And it took an act of Congress..literally..to finally get the "scientific proof" of steroid use in baseball. No NFL team has the means to prove the cheating, and the NFL has no desire to stop the goose from laying golden eggs.

Accusing someone of cheating, especially in something as ticky tack as deflating footballs, when you have no way of substantiating it, just sounds like whining sour grapes. Not to mention that all teams probably use stickem, or even PEDs, so many cheat on some level.

Well, that process all blew up when the Pats P.Oed the Ravens and the league with their bush-league "hide the eligible receiver" ploy in the divisional game. That provided enough motivation for the Ravens and Colts (who should have hosted the AFCCG against the Ravens BTW) to finally to call out the Pats for deflating footballs, something that many around the league probably knew was going on for years.

The process by which the pats were caught, kind of an unprofessional cumbersome gathering of the footballs by the refs and the somewhat flawed "science" and Wells report, is something that was done on the fly after the fact. The refs and the league never thought to have a procedure for catching something that has been going on for years that nobody cared about until the bush-league 4th quarter series in the Ravens game.

That's the accurate account of the situation .

Science...schmience.

[Colts_Fan12]

I'm never going to Boston I couldn't do it if your all this stupid I would be in jail for ever just for hitting dumb people in the mouth

[Bad Morty]

Risk a fire storm? Personally, I think the most plausible scenario is that Brady has been doing it for a long time, and players and some coaches and execs knew all about it for a long time. Just like the McGuire Sosa roid HR derby, everybody knew, but the cheating benefitted the interest in the game, and indirectly benefitted everyone.

Also, calling out Brady over the years would just sound like sour grapes on the part of the losers, because there was never any real way of proving the conduct. And it took an act of Congress..literally..to finally get the "scientific proof" of steroid use in baseball. No NFL team has the means to prove the cheating, and the NFL has no desire to stop the goose from laying golden eggs.

Accusing someone of cheating, especially in something as ticky tack as deflating footballs, when you have no way of substantiating it, just sounds like whining sour grapes. Not to mention that all teams probably use stickem, or even PEDs, so many cheat on some level.

Well, that process all blew up when the Pats P.Oed the Ravens and the league with their bush-league "hide the eligible receiver" ploy in the divisional game. That provided enough motivation for the Ravens and Colts (who should have hosted the AFCCG against the Ravens BTW) to finally to call out the Pats for deflating footballs, something that many around the league probably knew was going on for years.

The process by which the pats were caught, kind of an unprofessional cumbersome gathering of the footballs by the refs and the somewhat flawed "science" and Wells report, is something that was done on the fly after the fact. The refs and the league never thought to have a procedure for catching something that has been going on for years that nobody cared about until the bush-league 4th quarter series in the Ravens game.

That's the accurate account of the situation .

Science...schmience.

This is actually the most reasonable presentation of this that I've read. I don't agree with all of what you've said, but you are rational.

[Bad Morty]

I'm never going to Boston I couldn't do it if your all this stupid I would be in jail for ever just for hitting dumb people in the mouth

lol

[Shane Bond]

There are still a few unanswered questions.

One in particular......

Why did the Pats Organization refuse to let Wells interview McNally for a second time?

And why were they suspended.

[Warhorse]

infraction - cheating

 

denial - embarrassing

 

deflection - nauseating