Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[Robert Johnson]

Aliens did it,it was all done by aliens,they are everywhere,Infiltrating our lives,deflating our footballs,what next?

[crazycolt1]

If the NFL told you that Andrew Luck couldn't play the first 4 weeks of this coming season, and there wasn't either a clear cut case that he had done anything wrong OR a precedent for that harsh a punishment even if he was guilty of what he was charged with as a first time offender, I would expect Colts fans to be apoplectic over it and with good reason. I watch the NFL to see guys like Tom Brady play football, not to marvel at what a "tough guy" Roger Goodell is. He issued a suspension that basically tells Pats fans "your 2015 season is over, and you aren't getting a draft pick either". I feel like the football season has been taken away from me barring a reversal of this suspension...that's why I'm angry about it.

I understand your point of view but when looking at what we all do know is what makes this whole thing subject to what it is. Brady skirted the question when ask if he cheated. Brady did not cooperate with the NFL's investigation. Kraft said he would back Brady 100% and then backed off. Brady was assured by Wells that his phone records could be filtered by his lawyer so that any none related items would not be made public. When this whole thing came to light Belichick put it all on Brady and has kept out of it.(smart man). All this could have been avoided had Brady either cooperated or just fessed up if something was not right. Brady would have taken his token fine and all this would be old news. When someone acts like they have something to hide no one can blame anyone who distrust them. There is only one person who is responsible for this and that is Brady himself. By him not being forthright he has cost Kraft 1 million dollars, his team 2 draft picks and himself suspended 4 games pending an appeal. Anyone can make all the excuses in the world for or against Brady but it is him who made this chain of events happen. You can point the finger at Goodell all you want but it was Brady himself who made this happen. This whole Patriot thing about the whole world is against us is horse dung. You have been in this thread retreading all this over and over and have not made a dent in it except excuses for Brady. At this point no matter what happens to Brady you will refuse to accept that he could be guilty. Brady himself has made a mountain out of a molehill because of his actions and or lack of actions.

[Bad Morty]

I understand your point of view but when looking at what we all do know is what makes this whole thing subject to what it is. Brady skirted the question when ask if he cheated. Brady did not cooperate with the NFL's investigation. Kraft said he would back Brady 100% and then backed off. Brady was assured by Wells that his phone records could be filtered by his lawyer so that any none related items would not be made public. When this whole thing came to light Belichick put it all on Brady and has kept out of it.(smart man). All this could have been avoided had Brady either cooperated or just fessed up if something was not right. Brady would have taken his token fine and all this would be old news. When someone acts like they have something to hide no one can blame anyone who distrust them. There is only one person who is responsible for this and that is Brady himself. By him not being forthright he has cost Kraft 1 million dollars, his team 2 draft picks and himself suspended 4 games pending an appeal. Anyone can make all the excuses in the world for or against Brady but it is him who made this chain of events happen. You can point the finger at Goodell all you want but it was Brady himself who made this happen. This whole Patriot thing about the whole world is against us is horse dung. You have been in this thread retreading all this over and over and have not made a dent in it except excuses for Brady. At this point no matter what happens to Brady you will refuse to accept that he could be guilty. Brady himself has made a mountain out of a molehill because of his actions and or lack of actions.

Fine...and the precedent we have for that is Brett Favre refusing to hand over his phone in the Jen Sturger case...$50K fine for lack of cooperation with a league investigation and no suspension. The TEAM has been punished (excessively, imo) for the actual "crime" of the balls being deflated...$1M and a first round pick. Why are we punishing an individual player both for the actual violation (which the team already paid for) and the lack of cooperation? Why not suspend Gronkowski too, while we're at it? Maybe he knew about the balls supposedly being deflated. Maybe everyone on the offense was "generally aware" of this...so shouldn't they all be subject to a 4 game suspension? It's a completely arbitrary punishment of one player and the fact is none of us know what he's actually been punished for. We all assume it's some combination of not cooperating and the supposed knowledge of balls being deflated. But it doesn't seem right to me that you punish both the team and an individual player for the same violation. It should be one or the other imo. If the player is responsible, punish him. If the team is responsible, punish them. Can't be both.

[HOZER]

I'm slow... maybe you can help me. Other words these three guys , Brady and the 2 equipment guys , were just trying to "straighten it all out ? " The one guy is telling Brady not to worry cause "they" know Brady wouldn't have somehow snuck the balls out and "DEFLATED THEM HIMSELF !!!!!! ????? Oh my aching butt....Yeah Tom ... don't worry ." Everyone knows you didn't steal the balls and stick them yourself" This is really funny stuff ...

To me it sounds "more probable then not" that they were trying to get thier stories straight, get on the same page.

[amfootball]

that's a ridiculous assumption.   before BB/brady, boston was redsox/celtics/bruins town.  boston really didn't have to go all out for pats because they always had those 3 teams to root for.

 

but things have changed.   football is the most popular sports in the country and in boston.  pats own the city.  win or lose people live and die football.  thx to bb/brady, but also thx to how sports climate changed over the years.   winning changes the fan base. 

 

you can call them a fair weather fans all you want, but pats fanbase is here to stay. 

I think it is a great question. I do think over the years the Pats have gotten a lot of bandwagon fans as that happens with any team that is historically good for so long. But I think the Red Sox fan base is way worse with the corporate pink hats. I really hate what has happened more so with them and their winning then the Pats. That being said, winning all these championships has been an amazing ride. To see 4 SBs, 3 WSs and then the Celtics and Bruins win has been just amazing. It has been hard to even get too worked up about the Sox this season given their unbelievable run in 2013. I feel the same way about the Pats this season. I expect a good season out of them and another deep playoff run but I am Ok with whatever they do. That 4th Lombardi was as sweet as they come and put a great exclamation on this dynasty and all they have achieved. I am interested to see how they do post-Brady. I believe Bill will stick around unlike Walsh with the niners so we will get to see if he can find another great Qb. Maybe Jimmy is that guy. Who knows.

[crazycolt1]

Fine...and the precedent we have for that is Brett Favre refusing to hand over his phone in the Jen Sturger case...$50K fine for lack of cooperation with a league investigation and no suspension. The TEAM has been punished (excessively, imo) for the actual "crime" of the balls being deflated...$1M and a first round pick. Why are we punishing an individual player both for the actual violation (which the team already paid for) and the lack of cooperation? Why not suspend Gronkowski too, while we're at it? Maybe he knew about the balls supposedly being deflated. Maybe everyone on the offense was "generally aware" of this...so shouldn't they all be subject to a 4 game suspension? It's a completely arbitrary punishment of one player and the fact is none of us know what he's actually been punished for. We all assume it's some combination of not cooperating and the supposed knowledge of balls being deflated. But it doesn't seem right to me that you punish both the team and an individual player for the same violation. It should be one or the other imo. If the player is responsible, punish him. If the team is responsible, punish them. Can't be both.

What Farve did was not related to the play on the field. Apples and oranges. Your none stop effort in deflecting Brady issue is boundless.

[amfootball]

What Farve did was not related to the play on the field. Apples and oranges. Your none stop effort in deflecting Brady issue is boundless.

Yes not a perfect comparison but it is still a player not cooperating with a league investigation so it is relevant in showing how the league has treated this issue of non-coop. Also the Chargers did not cooperate in 2012 with handing over the sticky towels that they were using on the balls and the league did not punish them at all. Just told them not to do it again. IMO the league is really up the river on the severity of the punishment it handed out.

[HOZER]

Yes not a perfect comparison but it is still a player not cooperating with a league investigation so it is relevant in showing how the league has treated this issue of non-coop. Also the Chargers did not cooperate in 2012 with handing over the sticky towels that they were using on the balls and the league did not punish them at all. Just told them not to do it again. IMO the league is really up the river on the severity of the punishment it handed out.

Except for this time it's a player AND a team that are not FULLY cooperating with the investigation.

[amfootball]

Except for this time it's a player AND a team that are not FULLY cooperating with the investigation.

Brady's punishment is separate from the team. And the league games operations book makes it clear that only the TEAM can be punished for ball tampering, not a player. So Brady's team has that point as well in his favor.

[Gramz]

Brady's punishment is separate from the team. And the league games operations book makes it clear that only the TEAM can be punished for ball tampering, not a player. So Brady's team has that point as well in his favor.

Tomorrow should be interesring, and I wish I was a little bird inside that Appeals hearing.

[amfootball]

Tomorrow should be interesring, and I wish I was a little bird inside that Appeals hearing.

Yeah me too Gramz. I am sure we will get all the scuttle coming out. Many reporters are going to be in NY both local from here in Boston and national.

[Cynjin]

Yes not a perfect comparison but it is still a player not cooperating with a league investigation so it is relevant in showing how the league has treated this issue of non-coop. Also the Chargers did not cooperate in 2012 with handing over the sticky towels that they were using on the balls and the league did not punish them at all. Just told them not to do it again. IMO the league is really up the river on the severity of the punishment it handed out.

Why do you keep regurgitating false information? A Chargers equipment guy did not cooperate with a game official to turn over the towel when asked for it, it was not the entire Chargers hierarchy or one of their players. Moreover, the NFL said the towel did not violate any rules at the time. The towels were later banned from use. Deflating footballs after being inspected by the game officials, which is what is being alleged, is against the rules. The analogies you people keep coming up with stink.

[amfootball]

Why do you keep regurgitating false information? A Chargers equipment guy did not cooperate with a game official to turn over the towel when asked for it, it was not the entire Chargers hierarchy or one of their players. Moreover, the NFL said the towel did not violate any rules at the time. The towels were later banned from use. Deflating footballs after being inspected by the game officials, which is what is being alleged, is against the rules. The analogies you people keep coming up with stink.

These are all cases/points that Brady's team will use tomorrow so I am just regurgitating what his defense will be. There is no perfect comparison as the NFL has never ever gauged footballs at halftime or investigated a team for tampering. So what we have here is an unprecedented case to begin with so no analogy will be perfect but they will be relevant. And part of the agreement of the CBA is that the league rule fairly and consistently.

[ViriLudant]

You may be right..... but nobody knows. Because nobody knows what the Patrioits will be like after Brady and Belichick retire.

If the Pats fall back to the rest of the pack where some years they're good and some years they're not, who knows how the fan base responds? It's all speculation. Again, you may be right, but that's not a sure thing....

Actually, Morty isn't quite correct.

The Patriots have sold out virtually every game since 1994. The true beginning was Kraft buying the Patriots, and then the drafting of Bledsoe. Since then, the Patriots were a major player in New England.

[Cynjin]

These are all cases/points that Brady's team will use tomorrow so I am just regurgitating what his defense will be. There is no perfect comparison as the NFL has never ever gauged footballs at halftime or investigated a team for tampering. So what we have here is an unprecedented case to begin with so no analogy will be perfect but they will be relevant. And part of the agreement of the CBA is that the league rule fairly and consistently.

Because this is a unique case the the analogies you cited are not relevant and it is also why the NFL can do whatever they want as far as punishment goes. As you stated, it is an unprecedented case to begin with.

[amfootball]

Because this is a unique case the the analogies you cited are not relevant and it is also why the NFL can do whatever they want as far as punishment goes. As you stated, it is an unprecedented case to begin with.

lol. The NFL cannot do whatever they want. There are analogous cases and also the point of the rule book that says only the team can be punished for ball tampering. Not to mention the Wells report that falls short of proving Brady's involvement or the fact that tampering even occurred given the science part. There is a mountain here for Brady to contend with both at the appeal and court if necessary.

[Cynjin]

lol. The NFL cannot do whatever they want. There are analogous cases and also the point of the rule book that says only the team can be punished for ball tampering. Not to mention the Wells report that falls short of proving Brady's involvement or the fact that tampering even occurred given the science part. There is a mountain here for Brady to contend with both at the appeal and court if necessary.

Okay, I'll bite. Please show some analogous case, not the non-analogous cases you cited previously. If you want to show were in the rule book it says that a player cannot be suspended for conduct that threatens the the integrity of the game, that would be nice to.

The validity of the Wells report is merely your opinion, which I doubt the NFL cares about.

[crazycolt1]

lol. The NFL cannot do whatever they want. There are analogous cases and also the point of the rule book that says only the team can be punished for ball tampering. Not to mention the Wells report that falls short of proving Brady's involvement or the fact that tampering even occurred given the science part. There is a mountain here for Brady to contend with both at the appeal and court if necessary.

So you were saying there was no ball tampering before and now you say Brady cant be punished for ball tampering. You are so possessed you cant even make up your own mind. Brady is not being punished because of anything except failing to cooperate and disproving the Wells report. Brady is the one who caused all of this himself. I know you don't want to hear that but that is the way it is regardless of what you think.

[pgt_rob]

I'm going to laugh if this goes to court. Will not be good for Tom.

[Bad Morty]

I'm going to laugh if this goes to court. Will not be good for Tom.

I'm going to laugh when Brady never misses a game...

[crazycolt1]

I'm going to laugh when Brady never misses a game...

Would you like to make a little wager? How about if Brady does get a suspension you will change your avatar to a Colts emblem for 2 weeks? If he doesn't get a suspension I will use a Patriots emblem for 2 weeks? If you really seriously think Brady gets no games off put your month long ranting on the line?

[Bad Morty]

Would you like to make a little wager? How about if Brady does get a suspension you will change your avatar to a Colts emblem for 2 weeks? If he doesn't get a suspension I will use a Patriots emblem for 2 weeks? If you really seriously think Brady gets no games off put your month long ranting on the line?

lol...I already have a Colts logo, but sure. And by the way - I'm talking about at the end of the process. I want to be clear that I don't think Goodell will even take a game off the suspension. I think he's going to stick to his guns and it will end up in court. Florio recently put it out there that if it goes to court it could drag into 2016 before the suspension gets served. So my dream scenario is that Brady plays the whole year, wins one more SB, then gets a suspension for 2016 at which point he says "Sorry...I'm retired now".

[cdgacoltsfan]

lol...I already have a Colts logo, but sure. And by the way - I'm talking about at the end of the process. I want to be clear that I don't think Goodell will even take a game off the suspension. I think he's going to stick to his guns and it will end up in court. Florio recently put it out there that if it goes to court it could drag into 2016 before the suspension gets served. So my dream scenario is that Brady plays the whole year, wins one more SB, then gets a suspension for 2016 at which point he says "Sorry...I'm retired now".

I hope it does go to court too. There is something on Golden Boys cell phone that he doesnt want known. Im sure he's tried to cover whatever it is up the best he can. Should be good entertainment.. I cant wait!

[Bad Morty]

I hope it does go to court too. There is something on Golden Boys cell phone that he doesnt want known. Im sure he's tried to cover whatever it is up the best he can. Should be good entertainment.. I cant wait!

He probably just doesn't want everyone to see all the texts he was sending making hotel arrangements in Phoenix as soon as the Colts had beaten Denver.

[Gramz]

lol...I already have a Colts logo, but sure. And by the way - I'm talking about at the end of the process. I want to be clear that I don't think Goodell will even take a game off the suspension. I think he's going to stick to his guns and it will end up in court. Florio recently put it out there that if it goes to court it could drag into 2016 before the suspension gets served. So my dream scenario is that Brady plays the whole year, wins one more SB, then gets a suspension for 2016 at which point he says "Sorry...I'm retired now".

Why would he get a suspension? I thought you said he was innocent, and that it was unprecedented to hand down a suspension to a player for this?

Maybe I'm confusing your posts with another poster here

[Bad Morty]

Why would he get a suspension? I thought you said he was innocent, and that it was unprecedented to hand down a suspension to a player for this?

Maybe I'm confusing your posts with anther poster here

well come on now...I have never made the claim that I knew for sure what happened. Everything I've ever posted here has always been an opinion like everyone else's posts. So I'm not blind to the fact that many people draw different conclusions than I do. So while it's my belief that a truly independent person/persons would view the totality of evidence in this case and not come close to saying it was probable that Brady did anything wrong to warrant a suspension, I allow for the possibility they might.

[Swan Ronson]

Or Brady plays the whole regular season, then his suspension is upheld in court just before the play offs and the Patriots go one and done without him. Now that would be funny.

 

Alternatively the whole thing is over after this appeal, suspension upheld or not.

[jvan1973]

Yes not a perfect comparison but it is still a player not cooperating with a league investigation so it is relevant in showing how the league has treated this issue of non-coop. Also the Chargers did not cooperate in 2012 with handing over the sticky towels that they were using on the balls and the league did not punish them at all. Just told them not to do it again. IMO the league is really up the river on the severity of the punishment it handed out.

actually the chargers did cooperate. You may want to research that a bit

[dynasty13]

Or Brady plays the whole regular season, then his suspension is upheld in court just before the play offs and the Patriots go one and done without him. Now that would be funny.

 

Alternatively the whole thing is over after this appeal, suspension upheld or not.

Better to go one and done without him than one and done with him....I hear that's not good for your legacy.

[NewColtsFan]

Here's a good explanation of the issues at hand from a very good reporter,  Yahoo's Charles Robinson.

 

You'll see the strength and the weakness of each case.     And you'll see the dilemma that each side is in depending on who says what during the meeting.

 

It's not a hard or a long read,  and if the topic interests you,  it'll help you understand what is going to happen behind closed doors.

 

This is not a slam-dunk for either side and much is at risk.     A worthwhile read for all....

 

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-brady-s-appeal--3-things-the-qb-must-answer--explain-before-roger-goodell-031913117.html

[pgt_rob]

He probably just doesn't want everyone to see all the texts he was sending making hotel arrangements in Phoenix as soon as the Colts had beaten Denver.

 

Oooohhh burn. Where'd you copy and paste that from, the Pats boards? lol

[Swan Ronson]

Better to go one and done without him than one and done with him....I hear that's not good for your legacy.

I don't really understand the American sports fan's fascination with legacy. I'll stick with the comedy of him costing the Patriots in the playoffs because he wouldn't take his medicine And serve his suspet Iin the first few games.

[Bad Morty]

Oooohhh burn. Where'd you copy and paste that from, the Pats boards? lol

that's a grade-A original right there

[amfootball]

Could we just merge this with the other thread so we don't have two?

[dw49]

He probably just doesn't want everyone to see all the texts he was sending making hotel arrangements in Phoenix as soon as the Colts had beaten Denver.

 

 

It's totally understandable why Brady would not let even his attorney look at his phone . You can only explain so many incriminating text with nonsense . Most people aren't stupid......

[amfootball]

I don't really understand the American sports fan's fascination with legacy. I'll stick with the comedy of him costing the Patriots in the playoffs because he wouldn't take his medicine And serve his suspet Iin the first few games.

2015 is largely irrelevant for Brady's legacy. The guy does not need to win another game - he is the biggest winner and most accomplished QB of the SB era. All he can really do is only add to it. The records and accomplishments are there for everyone else to try to catch ...

[Lawrence Owen]

Here is the deal.  The AE report cannot be used in the appeal hearing because all it does is try to debunk a report, without any scientific evidence of it's own...it just tries to discredit the scientific findings of the wells report.  No new evidence.  And Goodell said that only NEW evidence will be heard at the hearing.  And the buck stops at Goodell.    

 

Tomorrow will be the end of it.  If Brady convinces Goodell with new evidence and has his suspension lowered or erased, or is unable to do so and it stands in full, that will be the end of it. 

 

There won't be a federal appeal since it is obvious Brady does not want his phone records touched.  And the Federal Judge will demand it, and Brady and the Lawyers know this.  Failure to cooperate in court is known as Contempt of court and is usually punished immediately by jail time.  usually while the hearing is still going if it continues further than the initial day.  Then the judge would have those records pulled by his service provider anyhow, and whatever it is he wants to hide would be out in the open.  

So no,...it ends with the appeal, and Goodell.  And whatever happens there is the end of it, if Brady gets to play week 1, good for him, if not, he just has to suck it up and deal with it.

But no matter what the end product is, Brady gets suspension lifted or no, Pats fans will ALWAYS say he was innocent.  (And i get that, they love their QB and their franchise)

[Swan Ronson]

2015 is largely irrelevant for Brady's legacy. The guy does not need to win another game - he is the biggest winner and most accomplished QB of the SB era. All he can really do is only add to it. The records and accomplishments are there for everyone else to try to catch ...

Well isn't that wonderful for Tom. Like I said though, I don't understand the fascination with legacy, it means nothing to me. 

[dynasty13]

It's totally understandable why Brady would not let even his attorney look at his phone . You can only explain so many incriminating text with nonsense . Most people aren't stupid......

 

I'm still trying to figure out what people think they will find on his phone that would incriminate him...especially since every text or conversation between Brady and the ball guys is already known. 

[pgt_rob]

that's a grade-A original right there

 

Just like your comment!