Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[Cynjin]

How do you not understand this cold, hard logic?

If the footballs deflated naturally, as has been proven by various scientific institutions,

Actually, that has not been "proven", so your so called "cold, hard logic" is quite flawed.

[aaron11]

I see that SW's understanding of the whole situation is still lacking.

Tell me, SW, what your take is on the whole scientific community discrediting the Wells report.

this is just wrong.  plenty in the "scientific community" have put in their own work, and found evidence to the contrary.

 

you only want to listen if its pro patriots though

[Bad Morty]

this is just wrong.  plenty in the "scientific community" have put in their own work, and found evidence to the contrary.

 

you only want to listen if its pro patriots though

Which independent scientific agency has come out supporting the Wells conclusions? I don't recall seeing anything along those lines.

[dynasty13]

This is what I find odd. I've heard some NE fans in the past say that ESPN & NFL Network are biased toward the Patriots & they just can't get a fair shake on those 2 primary football networks. Trey Wingo on NFL Live praises NE all the time & so does Tedy Bruschi & on NFL Network Shawn O'hara, Willie McGinest, & Heath Evans all sing Bill's praises every chance they get. It's fine by me Bill's 1 hades of a coach, but don't act like both ESPN & NFL Network hate Foxboro's guts. That's not aware close to reality & anybody who watches "NFL Live" & "Total Access" regularly knows this.

Obviously when there are former Patriots players on the panel, you aren't going to feel the pushed narrative. But here's a perfect example of any story involving the Patriots getting blown up while other things just sit on the back burner: With everything that is going on with the St. Louis Cardinals right now, how is there close to zero coverage on it on ESPN? How is it possible that an actual felony is worthy of no coverage, but when the Patriots are accused of possibly letting air out of a football it becomes a national scandal and you get constant coverage on ESPN for months???

That's why you get this 'unfairness' sentiment from Patriots fans. Yes I know I know...the pats brought it on themselves I guess...but maybe you guys can start to see why we question how other situations are handled or presented as compared to how things dealing with the patriots are perceived.

[jvan1973]

Show me where Brady legally is obligated to hand over his cell phone.

I'll give you a hint : nowhere. Clearly none of you know the legality of the issues at hand.

Clearly you don't know that the NFL doesn't need to follow any law other than their own in their investigations

[Gramz]

20 pages later.....    it feels like Christmas Eve, and the anticipation builds.

[dynasty13]

20 pages later..... it feels like Christmas Eve, and the anticipation builds.

Here's a question...why are you guys so amused by how many pages this topic gets?

News flash: The arguments from Patriots fans only make up half of these threads...you guys continue to contribute to and respond to and make just as much noise about this but then want to 'laugh' at how many pages the big stupid naive Patriots fans have somehow pushed this topic to.

[Gramz]

Here's a question...why are you guys so amused by how many pages this topic gets?

News flash: The arguments from Patriots fans only make up half of these threads...you guys continue to contribute to and respond to and make just as much noise about this but then want to 'laugh' at how many pages the big stupid naive Patriots fans have somehow pushed this topic to.

Where did I state that...??

 

My comment was that this is like Christmas Eve, and all the kids have been waiting all year to see what the morning will bring....  Some will be dissappointed, some will be delighted, and right now the anticipation is building.

 

I was not laughing at Pats fans, I was making a flippant comment about all of us.

 

 I admit,  I've contributed my share to this saga.  

[HOZER]

Where did I state that...??

I admit, I've contributed my share.

.

As have I. A majority of the Colts

fans posts have been rebuttals to the nonsense posted by the pats fans.

pats fans seem to be a little edgy today.....

[Gramz]

Fortunately, in America we don't convict people based on body language....

 FBI and CIA agents are trained to watch body language for signs of lying.  

 

And, body language often goes a long way in swaying a jury one way or the other.  

[dw49]

Fortunately, in America we don't convict people based on body language....

 

 

Think a little before you post. Lots of cases are won and lost on how credible a jury finds a witness or a defendant . Honest to God ... it's true. Very similar stuff .. no direct evidence ... no eye witness . Circumstantial stuff and guess what else ? The burden of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" .. not "more probable than not." 

 

You hear jurors all the time making statements like "I just didn't find him to be credible." She was crying " but I didn't see any tears."  "the defendant didn't look at us when he testified" The burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt .. not "more probable than not.

[NewColtsFan]

I see that SW's understanding of the whole situation is still lacking.

Tell me, SW, what your take is on the whole scientific community discrediting the Wells report.

 

1.   Look who's throwing stones,  a Patriots fan!     What a shock! 

 

2.   Would you care to attempt to justifying the sentence you wrote.....   "the whole scientific community....

 

I'd like to see that!     Seriously.    Who constitutes the "whole scientific community"...????

 

Because if you can't prove that  (hint: you can't)  then I think it's you who still lacks an understanding of things and shouldn't be commenting on others here....

[crazycolt1]

Here's a question...why are you guys so amused by how many pages this topic gets?

News flash: The arguments from Patriots fans only make up half of these threads...you guys continue to contribute to and respond to and make just as much noise about this but then want to 'laugh' at how many pages the big stupid naive Patriots fans have somehow pushed this topic to.

 News Flash- I guess that is what happens when it's a Colts forum. Sad that Patriot fans feel the need to none stop defend their team on another teams forum. An outsider you would think this was a Patriot forum.

[southwest1]

Obviously when there are former Patriots players on the panel, you aren't going to feel the pushed narrative. But here's a perfect example of any story involving the Patriots getting blown up while other things just sit on the back burner: With everything that is going on with the St. Louis Cardinals right now, how is there close to zero coverage on it on ESPN? How is it possible that an actual felony is worthy of no coverage, but when the Patriots are accused of possibly letting air out of a football it becomes a national scandal and you get constant coverage on ESPN for months???

That's why you get this 'unfairness' sentiment from Patriots fans. Yes I know I know...the pats brought it on themselves I guess...but maybe you guys can start to see why we question how other situations are handled or presented as compared to how things dealing with the patriots are perceived.

I was only referring to 2 NFL shows on cable NFL LIVE & NFL Total Access. I fail to see how the St. Louis Cardinals are relevant to Deflate Gate, but I will freely admit that I don't really follow baseball that closely. 

 

The NE Patriots are still 4 time SB Champions right? I have no idea why Foxboro fans are so melancholy, down in the dumps, & frustrated for D13. If you lost to Seattle, you'd might have a point given all this attention, but I seem to recall that your team won. 

 

If Luck & the Colts just won the SB & was accused of a air pressure violation, I'd say yeah, you got me. We screwed up & it was wrong, but we are still Lombardi Champions so life is good man. 

 

"Obviously when there are former Patriots players on the panel, you aren't going to feel the pushed narrative." What's that mean exactly? So, if former NE players choose not to openly state that deflate gate is rigged. It's not impartial coverage? Huh? I would think former players of NE are in a perfect place to defend NE actions. If they chose not to, that's not my problem. Would you rather have former Jets, Bills, & Dolphins players chime in on Deflate & if they believe NE engaged in foggy ethics then? 

[dynasty13]

News Flash- I guess that is what happens when it's a Colts forum. Sad that Patriot fans feel the need to none stop defend their team on another teams forum. An outsider you would think this was a Patriot forum.

God...I'm so freaking sick of being told whos forum this is and how sad it is that we post here. You're the ones that keep responding and keeping the conversation going...if it's soooooo obvious that Brady is guilty and that the Patriots did it, then why bother even responding to us? I mean, you criticize US for it, but who are YOU all trying to convince?

If you want a topic to die, stop contributing to the problem. But please stop asking why we post here. The Colts are the ones who made this a national scandal...it would be weird if we were on the Browns board talking about it, but it's perfectly reasonable that the conversation is taking place here, on the home board of the 2015 AFC Finalists.

[dynasty13]

I was only referring to 2 NFL shows on cable NFL LIVE & NFL Total Access. I fail to see how the St. Louis Cardinals are relevant to Deflate Gate, but I will freely admit that I don't really follow baseball that closely.

The NE Patriots are still 4 time SB Champions right? I have no idea why Foxboro fans are so melancholy, down in the dumps, & frustrated for D13. If you lost to Seattle, you'd might have a point given all this attention, but I seem to recall that your team won.

If Luck & the Colts just won the SB & was accused of a air pressure violation, I'd say yeah, you got me. We screwed up & it was wrong, but we are still Lombardi Champions so life is good man.

"Obviously when there are former Patriots players on the panel, you aren't going to feel the pushed narrative." What's that mean exactly? So, if former NE players choose not to openly state that deflate gate is rigged. It's not impartial coverage? Huh? I would think former players of NE are in a perfect place to defend NE actions. If they chose not to, that's not my problem. Would you rather have former Jets, Bills, & Dolphins players chime in on Deflate & if they believe NE engaged in foggy ethics then?

Oh don't worry, we are ecstatic that we are the champs...we just can't say it because then we would be bragging, remember?

What I meant was that ESPN helped turn this into a national scandal with the way they covered it...you wouldn't notice if you only watch the shows that have former Patriots players on the panel...but as a whole, the way they covered this 24/7 is odd especially when compared to how right now there is a REAL scandal going on in the sports world, at the federal level mind you, yet there is little to no coverage on it.

That's why Patriots fans feel that other situations are not given the same amount of attention or met with the same level of criticism as things dealing with our team. You all may think we are deflecting when we bring up other situations, but no...we are trying to show that for some reason, it's only a big deal when the Patriots do something...as other, bigger, REAL 'scandals' get little to no coverage and therefor little to no outrage.

[southwest1]

If Brady gets his suspension reduced to 2 games, what will the reaction of Patriots Nation going to be: scream we are vindicated & all the other Colts fans were wrong? I don't mind if NE fans are happy that their QB will miss fewer games this season, but how some fans think the penalty will be completely abolished. I just don't see that happening. 

 

I heard Greg Olson TE of the Carolina Panthers say today, "Tom Brady is the face of the NFL. His punishment should be reduced." So popularity means an automatic reduction now? I still think it will get cut in half just because Robert Kraft accepted the fine & loss of draft picks & this is Goodell's way of throwing Kraft a bone of gratitude in the end. 

 

I just hope Brady doesn't play the all or nothing martyr victim role here. At a certain point, this whole charade has to end & it would go a long way if he was the 1 person to end it. It's like a plea bargain. Just present your case, get your final ruling, & move on 1 way or another. 

[Happy2BeHere]

My goodness, you Pats fans are really looking for anything to act blameless while cheating. It's really kinda sad. All these excuses are worse than what Brady actually did. I'm of the belief that had he simply admitted to what he was doing and co-operated with the investigators, he would have gotten a much smaller penalty

It's like Obama said..."clinging to their guns and religion" except in this case "clinging to the non reality of the situation." Anything that says Brady didn't do it or that the wells report is crap they will gobble up. I'm absolutely confident that you could hire a bum off the street to just write an article that says he read the report and it's all implausible and they (the pats fans, especially those on this forum) would eat that right up and believe it wholly.

It's ignorance plain and simple on pats fans. Just kind of like the recent findings of Pete Rose right?? Who cares what he did he was great right ??

I don't get it...i just don't get pats fans. There really is something fundamentally wrong with the country (not as a whole) when a chunk of people ignore the facts and findings. Aka pats fans

[Happy2BeHere]

God...I'm so freaking sick of being told whos forum this is and how sad it is that we post here. You're the ones that keep responding and keeping the conversation going...if it's soooooo obvious that Brady is guilty and that the Patriots did it, then why bother even responding to us? I mean, you criticize US for it, but who are YOU all trying to convince?

If you want a topic to die, stop contributing to the problem. But please stop asking why we post here. The Colts are the ones who made this a national scandal...it would be weird if we were on the Browns board talking about it, but it's perfectly reasonable that the conversation is taking place here, on the home board of the 2015 AFC Finalists.

Like did you think about what you wrote and typed out before you hit the post button?

"You're the ones that keep responding and keeping the conversation going...if it's soooooo obvious that Brady is guilty and that the Patriots did it, then why bother even responding to us?"

Last time I checked conversation and dialogue works like good old regular s e x...it takes 2 to keep it going.

Just sayin.....

[southwest1]

Oh don't worry, we are ecstatic that we are the champs...we just can't say it because then we would be bragging, remember?

What I meant was that ESPN helped turn this into a national scandal with the way they covered it...you wouldn't notice if you only watch the shows that have former Patriots players on the panel...but as a whole, the way they covered this 24/7 is odd especially when compared to how right now there is a REAL scandal going on in the sports world, at the federal level mind you, yet there is little to no coverage on it.

That's why Patriots fans feel that other situations are not given the same amount of attention or met with the same level of criticism as things dealing with our team. You all may think we are deflecting when we bring up other situations, but no...we are trying to show that for some reason, it's only a big deal when the Patriots do something...as other, bigger, REAL 'scandals' get little to no coverage and therefor little to no outrage.

I do appreciate your honesty & clarification D13. You're darned if you do; You're darned if you don't. Yeah, there probably is some truth in how some fans will perceive gloating. I'll buy that. 

 

In the grand scheme of things, depleted air pressure is not a high water mark on the controversy scale. That's true. It's not. I get you're point fake outrage is dangerous & let's not blow it out of proportion. Okay sure, but what's the artificial outrage here? Decreased air pressure PSI levels in a football or that a HOF QB who's been playing at an elite level in the pinnacle of professional sports for over 10 years has no idea how or why his balls were deflated?

 

I don't see this as the Patriots vs the rest of the world. I see this as I find Brady's aloofness just to hard to swallow with a straight face. JMO. I like Tommy; I just don't believe him in this particular instance.  

 

You're entitled to brag about your squad D13. Your franchise earned it. To the victor go the spoils. That's why 32 teams compete September thru February my man. 

[southwest1]

SW is the one bringing up the cell phone, not me.

Uh oh, VL must be scared that Edward Snowden, former analyst for the NSA, was monitoring his phone calls.  I kid; I kid. 

 

My life is so boring no intelligence agency would follow me. "We're trying to listen to SW1's calls boss, but everytime we think he's about to reveal something juicy all we hear are snare drums & cymbal crashes man." 

[SteelCityColt]

I hope people aren't expecting any form of outcome from the appeal today. Greg Hardy's appeal was heard on the 28th May and we still don't have a decision from that one, and IIRC Ray Rice's took almost a month as well. 

[amfootball]

Look, I respect that you're standing up for your HOF QB & it is true that neither side [the pro Brady side vs the we're not buying it side] are privy to all the evidence used to make the case for or against this 4 game suspension. But this idea that Brady's gonna get the entire suspension overturned is beyond a pipe dream & nowhere near reality.

 

He's getting something. There's no immunity get out of jail free card here. No way. A reduction maybe but some sort of a victory parade? Ah no. I don't think so. 

 

What I find "stunning" is what magical bullet does Brady's legal team at their disposal to pardon their client entirely? Don't bring up how Bounty Gate was overturned either. Each case gets examined & judged as it's own entity. Track records of cases that Goodell got backlash on are irrelevant to Deflate Gate.

 

If NE fans claim that his legacy is so intact, why are they fighting so hard to remove a suspension nobody will give a darn about when he receives his yellow jacket? That's what just boggles my mind, if the suspension won't affect his shot at a bronze bust 5 years after Brady retires why are so many Pats fans treating his suspension like we just said something derogatory about his own mother? 

I was not talking about any of that. Normally you are very balanced in your view points with regards to all things. But on this topic you seem to have already made up your mind about the whole situation based on Brady's presser in Jan? That is the part I can't wrap my head around. None of us knows what really happened but boy is there a lot of holes in the league's case here and yet you seemed locked down in your opinion based on a press conference from months ago. And also willing to set aside Brady's 15 years of impeccable character and integrity as one of the sports best ambassadors. I do believe that Brady has EARNED the benefit of the doubt on this one especially given the gaping holes in the Wells report. But you seem to already have made up your mind that he is a liar and a cheat based on presser that was held before we knew anything and now that we do have more information you are still hanging on to that presser. I just don't get it.

 

In terms of the suspension, I have said many times that I do not think Roger takes a game off. Although there have been some stories that Brady may have sent his phone records ahead of the appeal so the league could verify them. IF that is true than maybe a game or two comes off. But that is it. I believe at that point it probably goes to court where the NFL has had a lousy record since Roger has been commish so it has a good chance to get knocked all the way down.

 

But overall this has no effect on Brady as I have said repeatedly in terms of his legacy whether he serves 4 games or none. What effected his legacy the most was winning THAT super bowl on Feb. 1. He had to win that game and he did to become the sports biggest winner and most accomplished player in the SB era. The only thing this suspension really effects is this season which again is largely irrelevant to Brady's legacy. The man does not have to win another game but he will be out there whether in Sept or Oct going for the unprecedented 5th ring for a QB.

[amfootball]

I hope people aren't expecting any form of outcome from the appeal today. Greg Hardy's appeal was heard on the 28th May and we still don't have a decision from that one, and IIRC Ray Rice's took almost a month as well. 

I don't believe there is any way Goodell sits on this for a month. The pressure for his ruling will be too great from the media/public and the PA who will want his ruling so they can then get it to court assuming he keeps at least part of the suspension which most expect he will.

[Bad Morty]

Yeah right Tommy, you throw footballs for a living but have no idea how they were low PSI wise. Please. 

 

 

Nor can any of us say they were low PSI wise, as the data that was collected at half time doesn't prove this.

[Nadine]

[SteelCityColt]

I don't believe there is any way Goodell sits on this for a month. The pressure for his ruling will be too great from the media/public and the PA who will want his ruling so they can then get it to court assuming he keeps at least part of the suspension which most expect he will.

 

Maybe not a month, but the expectation on here seems to be this to be done and dusted today.

[amfootball]

Maybe not a month, but the expectation on here seems to be this to be done and dusted today.

Yeah, I think all of us would like a ruling today give how long this story has on for.

[SteelCityColt]

Yeah, I think all of us would like a ruling today give how long this story has on for.

 

In your expectations though a ruling that doesn't completely exonerate Brady wouldn't be a conclusion so it's not going to go away .

[amfootball]

In your expectations though a ruling that doesn't completely exonerate Brady wouldn't be a conclusion so it's not going to go away .

No, I believe that a ruling that does not exonerate Brady will not satisfy Brady as that is what he has said in his appeal letter. We will see if he goes to court as I think if Goodell does pardon him from the deflation but still gives him a game or two for non-coop than he may drop it. Who knows as none of us have ever seen Brady in this situation. I do believe that Brady believes he is 100 percent innocent. How far he pushes that is anyone's guess.

[crazycolt1]

God...I'm so freaking sick of being told whos forum this is and how sad it is that we post here. You're the ones that keep responding and keeping the conversation going...if it's soooooo obvious that Brady is guilty and that the Patriots did it, then why bother even responding to us? I mean, you criticize US for it, but who are YOU all trying to convince?

If you want a topic to die, stop contributing to the problem. But please stop asking why we post here. The Colts are the ones who made this a national scandal...it would be weird if we were on the Browns board talking about it, but it's perfectly reasonable that the conversation is taking place here, on the home board of the 2015 AFC Finalists.

So I guess when Colt fans make comments and responses on a Colts forum they are expected to go right along with whatever a Patriot fan has to say? You so sick? No, some of you take full advantage of an open forum to bait and argue knowing full well exactly what the response will be. It is pre-calculated just because you can get by with it.

[crazycolt1]

Obviously when there are former Patriots players on the panel, you aren't going to feel the pushed narrative. But here's a perfect example of any story involving the Patriots getting blown up while other things just sit on the back burner: With everything that is going on with the St. Louis Cardinals right now, how is there close to zero coverage on it on ESPN? How is it possible that an actual felony is worthy of no coverage, but when the Patriots are accused of possibly letting air out of a football it becomes a national scandal and you get constant coverage on ESPN for months???

That's why you get this 'unfairness' sentiment from Patriots fans. Yes I know I know...the pats brought it on themselves I guess...but maybe you guys can start to see why we question how other situations are handled or presented as compared to how things dealing with the patriots are perceived.

But why bring it into a Colts forum? The Colts and their fans have zero to do with your whines. The Patriots are so mistreated? It is so unfair? This does happen to be a Colts forum not a whine forum for the Patriot fans to come and vent their frustrations. I have news for you. Not too many Colt fans are going to feel sorry for you or the Patriots. The whole world does not revolve around the Patriots in this forum. For you to expect that is unreal. For Patriot fans to keep coming into this forum and hashing the same thing over and over about the mistreatment of the Patriots is fruitless.

[dynasty13]

So I guess when Colt fans make comments and responses on a Colts forum they are expected to go right along with whatever a Patriot fan has to say? You so sick? No, some of you take full advantage of an open forum to bait and argue knowing full well exactly what the response will be. It is pre-calculated just because you can get by with it.

 

Who said anything about having to agree? My point was that it's weird to act surprised that this topic continues to garner so much interest and take up page after page when there's just as many Colts fans arguing about it as there are Patriots fans. That's how these forums work...and if you wish these threads would stop growing and growing, well....stop contributing to them.

 

And please, if you think our presence here is a pre-calculated effort to bait then I don't know what to tell you. That's just stupid.

[Bad Morty]

.

As have I. A majority of the Colts

fans posts have been rebuttals to the nonsense posted by the pats fans.

pats fans seem to be a little edgy today.....

interesting...I view most of the Colts fan posts as nonsense rebuttals to valid logical posts made by Pats fans.

[ColtRider]

Who said anything about having to agree? My point was that it's weird to act surprised that this topic continues to garner so much interest and take up page after page when there's just as many Colts fans arguing about it as there are Patriots fans. That's how these forums work...and if you wish these threads would stop growing and growing, well....stop contributing to them.

 

And please, if you think our presence here is a pre-calculated effort to bait then I don't know what to tell you. That's just stupid.

"precalculated effort to bait"

At many times it certainly is.

"I don't know what to tell you."

I do.

"That's just stupid."

Mirror is, as mirror does.

[dynasty13]

"precalculated effort to bait"

At many times it certainly is.

"I don't know what to tell you."

I do.

"That's just stupid."

Mirror is, as mirror does.

 

Really...so you think we all sit here and think, "Hmmm....how can I get under the skin of Coltsense today? Well I know this will get his panties in a bunch, I think ill post this". Because that is what you are implying when you say our posts are pre-calculated efforts to bait.

 

I mean, since when did disagreeing mean baiting or trolling? I always thought there was a difference. 

[Surge89]

No, I believe that a ruling that does not exonerate Brady will not satisfy Brady as that is what he has said in his appeal letter. We will see if he goes to court as I think if Goodell does pardon him from the deflation but still gives him a game or two for non-coop than he may drop it. Who knows as none of us have ever seen Brady in this situation. I do believe that Brady believes he is 100 percent innocent. How far he pushes that is anyone's guess.

 

Pathological liars tend to believe the fantasy they create.  Just sayin

[ColtRider]

Really...so you think we all sit here and think, "Hmmm....how can I get under the skin of Coltsense today? Well I know this will get his panties in a bunch, I think ill post this". Because that is what you are implying when you say our posts are pre-calculated efforts to bait.

 

I mean, since when did disagreeing mean baiting or trolling? I always thought there was a difference.

Tell me. What's it like to be always correct and odor-free concerning the team from Massachusetts? I mean, I'm just a lowly fan of Indiana. Please, tell me. It must be great, right?

[Bad Morty]

Florio got right to the root of why Brady's press conference came off so weak...

 

The only two times Brady spoke at length publicly about the situation (at a less-than-convincing press conference and a less-than-convincing pre-Super Bowl interview with Bob Costas), Brady was under the false impression that 11 of the 12 Patriots footballs used in the AFC title game against the Colts measured two full pounds-per-square-inch under the minimum — a leak from the league to ESPN that was as jarring as it ultimately was untrue. The false information put Brady and the Patriots on their heels, leading them to believe that someone had done something to the footballs that had resulted in a significant drop in their air pressure. So maybe the clumsy “are you a cheater?/I don’t believe so” remarks from Brady were influenced to some degree by the uncertainty that flowed from the adroitly sinister decision by someone to provide blatantly incorrect information to ESPN, knowing that this would rattle anyone who chose to speak from New England’s perspective about the situation without knowing the truth about the air pressure inside the footballs.

[dynasty13]

Tell me. What's it like to be always correct and odor-free concerning the team from Massachusetts? I mean, I'm just a lowly fan of Indiana. Please, tell me. It must be great, right?

 

I've never made that claim either...