DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[basspapaw]

Question if bradys lawyer actually had a case    wouldn't he have already  filed it, that way the nfl could put off punishment until the courts decide.

[TKnight24]

Announced yet?

[OffensivelyPC]

Announced yet?

it's not going to be announced over the weekend, expectations from what I've heard is mid-week at the latest.

[TKnight24]

it's not going to be announced over the weekend, expectations from what I've heard is mid-week at the latest.

Oh, just got off work so was making sure I ain't miss Nothing

Thanks

[SteelCityColt]

lol no. He won't take them to court at all. There's literally no cause of action that has a winning chance. he will only open up all the stuff he kept private. Oh and by the way, if he doesn't sue, it's pretty much an admission that he got caught redhanded. He loses either way...and it's because he cheated and lied about itm

Quoted for "This guy gets it"

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Question if bradys lawyer actually had a case    wouldn't he have already  filed it, that way the nfl could put off punishment until the courts decide.

I doubt if this has a lot of merit for a legal case either way.  This is an association that is ruled by it's own agreements.  That's why "guilt" is determined by what the players and league have agreed to in advance.  That's why the burden of proof is what they have agreed that it is.  That's why it doesn't take absolute, irrefutable proof to bring punishment.

 

It is a privilege to play in the NFL, not a right.  

[Dustin]

i was just saying that if people continue this crusade into the season and beyond. I understand it right now....hopefully I don't have to hear about cheating etc at every turn when the pats are playing or Brady does something great. We have a lot of positive posters and people with good football accumine and I would hate to dumb down every conversation with accusations and bitterness. While I am extremely proud of my Colts teams I can still accept the fact that NE has been the most successful team in the past decade and on the field they've proven it over and over as has Brady how great they've been. Doesn't mean that with Luck we can't have that same success or be that franchise but if someone wants to just dismiss everything based off these transgressions than so be it...I just don't see how they can add much intelligence to the football conversation. People can call cheating cheating...bad bad...and still see past that and see the good accomplished at the same time. I look at the scope of the infraction...spy gate and this deflating....there just isn't a big advantage gained....which is also why I think it's so dumb. the pats didn't need those things to be successful and there are many other players like I said before that have bent or ignored rules and we aren't having 50 pages to discuss jerry rice's indiscretions. How many championships did that affect....and arguably people still consider him the greatest player of all time. He gets a pass but Tom does not? Let's face it....it's bad...it's low and unnecessary but it's the PAts and Tom....and a lot of the anger is based on jealousy. I just wish people would put it in context instead of making this into some kinda Tom hate thread. I'm waiting for the Tom and hitler pictures to show up...the demonization is just a bit much. We see cheating everyday in sports...I expected Tom to be above that and it's disappointing...but I'm not outraged...whether it's a guy using pine tar, stickem, corked bat, vasoline it's not good...it's not in the spirit of the game...but I'm not going to dismiss all that persons accomplished for an indiscretion. I don't think as people that is what we should do. I may be in the minority's on this board I'm not sure...but I've seen plenty of other boards outside this one that feel the same way...those that don't have the long history of losses to the Pats and deep running resentment. Most people can put his in context....others are just blinded with hate. Just trying to be level headed...add some objectivity...it's how I try to look at all things. Can't deny the wrong doing here though....like I told AM...that's just as bad as the Brady/pats haterade.

I feel like you probably say a lot of insightful things, but your posts are borderline unreadable without paragraph breaks.

[aaron11]

if patriot fans want to discuss deflate gate with out everyone bashing their team constantly, then they should do it on their

 

You mean even Skip Bayless BELIEVES Brady is guilty. It's funny how everyone thinks he's an * and never believes a thing he says...except this time.

Look, I'm not saying Brady is innocent...I'm saying the way this whole thing was handled was rediculous and he should not be suspended. In every other case that people have referenced as some sort of precedent, there was either some legitimate proof or some kind of admission. This case is unique because there is neither...just assumption.

there is evidence, and its enough to suspend brady.  the phrase "more probable than not" is used all the time in these rulings and its as good as guilty when it comes to nfl discipline.

 

there are other forums where you can discuss deflate gate without everyone bashing your team.

 

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/

[Shane Bond]

Just another homer

You think

[Shane Bond]

Ruk,

It looks like Gramz cannot reply to your post because as per her request her account has been closed. Well there is another good poster lost because of the nonsense that is being allowed on what was a good forum.

She asked for it. Don't blame the forum.

I remember you came out of nowhere to attack me when I said something about Peyton and the same forum is allowing you to stay.

To each their own.

[dgambill]

So we will never know (because the report gave no proof) but we are all calling for a suspension (even though the report gave no proof)?

See what I did there? I'm sorry but for you guys to try to paint us as horrible homers who ignore facts, I mean really? If the report was definitive and proved Brady's guilt, no Patriots fan would be questioning it. But the report didn't, yet the majority of you are calling us out as blind homers for having the audacity to not lambaste our guy for something that is nothing more than speculation. Even the harshest critic can't deny that there are legitimate reasons why Patriots fans feel like this whole situation is crazy. It just doesn't make sense that someone could be suspended for assumed guilt.

I've been pretty understanding on both sides of this but to act like this is a court of law where your going to have unequivical facts is just expecting way way too much. The investigation has no power to force people to speak under oath, confiscate documents, video, or even make people speak. In this case the Pats and Brady threw up a wall when the questions got to close and they stone walled them. Not letting Brady's lawyer (agent) give up cell phone information etc and not letting people be called back for testimony pretty much assured there would be little way for them to say without a shadow of a doubt....but that isn't the level of burden of proof....its simply more probable than not. With the all the texts between the guys, phone call evidence that Brady contacted them, video of the guy going into the bathroom, the stolen balls, and evidence of the ball psi's etc its very reasonable to come to the conclusion that there was wrong doing, Brady was involved, and that punishment is deserved....any other conclusion I think is just homerism just as I would say anyone calling for them to vacate titles or that this tarnishes his whole legacy is also unreasonable. There is a truth...do we know it exactly...no...but we have enough evidence and information to come to a sound conclusion...and I can't see how punishment is not due and just.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

So we will never know (because the report gave no proof) but we are all calling for a suspension (even though the report gave no proof)?

See what I did there? I'm sorry but for you guys to try to paint us as horrible homers who ignore facts, I mean really? If the report was definitive and proved Brady's guilt, no Patriots fan would be questioning it. But the report didn't, yet the majority of you are calling us out as blind homers for having the audacity to not lambaste our guy for something that is nothing more than speculation. Even the harshest critic can't deny that there are legitimate reasons why Patriots fans feel like this whole situation is crazy. It just doesn't make sense that someone could be suspended for assumed guilt.

I see exactly what you did & its a failure .  Who said horrible IMO just blind deaf & dumb maybe even a lil guilible never horrible but homers .

 

Who can't handle the truth .

 

 

Whoa we will not ever know the whole truth like I said because Tom Brady lied & hindered the investigation as did the Organization which also violated NFL rules concerning  Integrity .

 

In no way do I agree theres is no proof in fact I say there is plenty with probable being the only thresh hold that must be cleared Tom & the Patriots are guilty as hell .

 

And Colts fans find it crazy too .

[amfootball]

lol no. He won't take them to court at all. There's literally no cause of action that has a winning chance. he will only open up all the stuff he kept private. Oh and by the way, if he doesn't sue, it's pretty much an admission that he got caught redhanded. He loses either way...and it's because he cheated and lied about itm

He had no issue turning over his phone, he just didn't want to give it to an investigator that represented the league who are known for leaks. He also has the union protecting his privacy as well.

 

He will go to court over any suspension. His agent made that pretty clear.

[amfootball]

The court might do something....   but don't hold your breath.

 

Most courts are reluctant to get involved when there's an agreement between the league and it's union,  and that what we're talking about.     It's already settled.    That's how Goodell has been able to discipline guys without them having been found guilty in a regular court of law.      You know,   your post this morning...  (Lol, Vilma was not criminal. He was suing for defamation. And neither Peterson or Rice were ever convicted of anything ...)   

 

Those are YOUR WORDS,  not mine.     The question isn't whether I'VE read your posts,  the question is have YOU read them?

 

I notice you often don't respond to my posts in this thread.    I take that as a compliment.    That I've made an argument so inarguable that you just don't even try to respond.       

 

But,  we'll all have a better idea about this in a few days....   seems like the hammer gets dropped this coming week.

Vilma went to court and won his suit and had his suspension over turned. Rice and Peterson also had their suspensions over turned. Honestly, I think this is a lay up for Brady based on the report. Any legal team would tear that apart ..

 

I am not avoiding you but I can't always respond to everyone and many times people are asking things I have already responded to at least related to this subject.

[BlueCollarColts]

No a legal team wouldn't tear that apart. Everyone gets caught up on the "more probable than not" %, but a lot of legal reports use those exact terms when they don't have an eye witness to the act. If you look at the evidence of the report, its very, very convincing Brady knew exactly what was going on. No legal team is tearing that down. 

[dw49]

He had no issue turning over his phone, he just didn't want to give it to an investigator that represented the league who are known for leaks. He also has the union protecting his privacy as well.

 

He will go to court over any suspension. His agent made that pretty clear.

 

 

Who did he want to turn his phone over to ? Do you have a link to something that said he would turn his phone over to another investigator ?

[crazycolt1]

He had no issue turning over his phone, he just didn't want to give it to an investigator that represented the league who are known for leaks. He also has the union protecting his privacy as well.

 

He will go to court over any suspension. His agent made that pretty clear.

The same agent who said this was all a sting? Brady had no issue turning over his cell phone? Well he didn't. Even after Wells said it would be examined in confidence and any information not related to the investigation would not be made public. So you are wrong by saying Brady had no issue.

[crazycolt1]

sorry AM, your boy is going down. Just like the spygate, it will be on record and will be known forever.

[ColtRider]

I expect a punishment. A harsh one. I am actually hoping for it as Yee made it clear that even a one game suspension means Brady will take the league to court ...

If Brady brings the penalty phase outcome to court, his _stardom_ is over. Period.

[amfootball]

Who did he want to turn his phone over to ? Do you have a link to something that said he would turn his phone over to another investigator ?

Yee explained it. He said that because Tom is a part of a union it would set a dangerous precedent for him to turn over his private phone and they also felt that whatever the "investigators" found about anything that they would try to use it against Tom without any context or understanding of football culture. It was obvious from Yee that they understood Wells was there to prosecute the Pats, not investigate them and they were operating under the notion that they were guilty and had to prove innocence. That is how Wells does his work. He is a hired gun from the league. Like I said, I don't blame Brady one bit but that does not preclude him handing it over to legal authorities not hired by the NFL.

[OffensivelyPC]

He had no issue turning over his phone, he just didn't want to give it to an investigator that represented the league who are known for leaks. He also has the union protecting his privacy as well.

He will go to court over any suspension. His agent made that pretty clear.

no, the report is pretty clear that wells offered to allow brady's attorney to screen all results and Brady still denied his phone to be searched, but nice try.

[amfootball]

no, the report is pretty clear that wells offered to allow brady's attorney to screen all results and Brady still denied his phone to be searched, but nice try.

Yes but they understood that whatever Brady provided would be used against him even if it was fine. Read my post to DW .... Yee explained all this.

[OffensivelyPC]

Yes but they understood that whatever Brady provided would be used against him even if it was fine. Read my post to DW .... Yee explained all this.

if he didn't want to turn it over for fear of it being used against him, then obviously he wasn't okay with turning it over. Can you contact yourself more blatantly?

[ricker182]

if he didn't want to turn it over for fear of it being used against him, then obviously he wasn't okay with turning it over. Can you contact yourself more blatantly?

They said they would fully cooperate, then didn't.  

  

I can't imagine anything will go to any court as that would be really dumb.

[dw49]

Yee explained it. He said that because Tom is a part of a union it would set a dangerous precedent for him to turn over his private phone and they also felt that whatever the "investigators" found about anything that they would try to use it against Tom without any context or understanding of football culture. It was obvious from Yee that they understood Wells was there to prosecute the Pats, not investigate them and they were operating under the notion that they were guilty and had to prove innocence. That is how Wells does his work. He is a hired gun from the league. Like I said, I don't blame Brady one bit but that does not preclude him handing it over to legal authorities not hired by the NFL.

 

I give...... no use 

[BlueShoe]

He had no issue turning over his phone, he just didn't want to give it to an investigator that represented the league who are known for leaks. He also has the union protecting his privacy as well.

 

He will go to court over any suspension. His agent made that pretty clear.

Yee explained it. He said that because Tom is a part of a union it would set a dangerous precedent for him to turn over his private phone and they also felt that whatever the "investigators" found about anything that they would try to use it against Tom without any context or understanding of football culture. It was obvious from Yee that they understood Wells was there to prosecute the Pats, not investigate them and they were operating under the notion that they were guilty and had to prove innocence. That is how Wells does his work. He is a hired gun from the league. Like I said, I don't blame Brady one bit but that does not preclude him handing it over to legal authorities not hired by the NFL.

 

Page 21:

"Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered

questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information

(including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited

to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game

balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s

counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive

materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic

devices. Our inability to review contemporaneous communications and other documents in

Brady‟s possession and control related to the matters under review potentially limited the

discovery of relevant evidence and was not helpful to the investigation."

[Coltsman1788]

I can't believe some of you Colts fans are still trying to reason with her.  It ain't happening fellas because she is willfully blind.  Here is Dan Shaugnessy's latest article.  I printed an excerpt especially for you guys.  Take note.  lol

 

"There is Patriot world, where everything is awesome, Bob Kraft is Gandhi, Bill Belichick is a god, and Tom Brady would never do anything to disgrace the uniform or the game. And there is the rest of the free-thinking world. Where reality lives."

 

"In Patriot world, the NFL is out to get you. Everybody is out to get you. It’s a conspiracy. It’s a sting. The Wells Report is ridiculously flawed. There are factual errors. The league was OK playing half of the AFC Championship game with footballs that might have not been inflated properly. The other 31 franchises are insanely jealous of the Patriots’ success. A couple of New England’s adult ball boys maybe went off the reservation, but all the evidence against the Patriots is circumstantial. The league has nothing."

 

"In the rest of the free-thinking world, the Patriots are liars and cheaters. They were caught red-handed in Spygate in 2007 and now the league has got them again. The Patriots intentionally and systematically deflated footballs, below legal limits, to accommodate Brady. They did it because they believed it gave them a competitive advantage (more completions, less fumbling, better play in bad weather — all Patriot trademarks). Brady knew about it, lied about it, then withheld information from the Wells investigators."

 

"None of the above is going to change. Folks are going to align themselves with one side or the other. Even after the penalties are announced."

 

You can view the rest of the article here...

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/09/reality-not-looking-good-for-tom-brady-and-patriots/IGT3myWkYdZagI4FCzkHKJ/story.html

[Moose Of Woe]

Patriots: "We are going to co-operate fully and I demand an apology from the league for questioning the integrity of Bill, Tom and the New England Patriots organization."

 

NFL: "Cool. Let's see #12's cell phone."

 

Patriots: "No."

 

NFL: "Ok, let us interview  the ball boys."

Patriots. "No."

 

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM great full cooperation, there.

 

Patriots: "Come on, guys. It's just a little air in the football. It's not a big deal. It's not ISIS. But we're going to deny deny deny and lie lie lie until our pants combust because we realize it actually is."

[ColtsBlueFL]

I understand that, but many of you guys are sitting around making it sound like anyone who has the audacity to question is just a low iq New England homer. The NFL will do what they want, you're right, but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to question, that doesn't make us stupid for wondering why this turned into a matter of national security when previous comparable situations did not. The fact is, there is 0 proof of Brady's involvement to the level that many are claiming, and as mentioned in the article I posted, we aren't crazy for calling foul at how the whole thing has been handled.

 

Do you know what I feel may be the dagger in this, the failure of the Patriots to produce McNally in a second, follow up interview.  I feel the NFL was prepared and had some items and were ready to pressure McNally into 'giving up' Tom Brady.  Then there would be that 'smoking gun' that everyone says is lacking.  But cooperation turned into obstruction. So it seems someone in the Patriots organization decided to fall on that grenade.  But that doesn't sit well with Goodell, rest assured.  And the previous Spygate made Goodell change the level of proof to ;preponderance of the evidence', or more probable than not. Interestingly, previous offenses plays into later punishments on players.  I do not see how it would be different  for teams found upsetting a level playing field.

 

I actually hope the fines and suspension are long enough that they (Pats / Brady) appeal it to higher authority.  That way McNally can be interviewed ad nauseam and the full record of Texts and phone calls will be unlocked. In the end, it's the truth we're after, not necessarily Brady's blood.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Coltsman, thanks for that article.  It's a really good one.  Sort of like Deja Vue on a certain poster's posts this week isn't it?  I don't know the author, but I'm assuming he's a Patriot reporter or at least a Boston reporter so he wouldn't be prejudiced against them.

[Coltsman1788]

Coltsman, thanks for that article.  It's a really good one.  Sort of like Deja Vue on a certain poster's posts this week isn't it?  I don't know the author, but I'm assuming he's a Patriot reporter or at least a Boston reporter so he wouldn't be prejudiced against them.

You're welcome.  I thought it was applicable and summed up what has been transpiring here over the past few days in a humorous way.    Anyway his name is Dan Shaugnessy and he is a writer for the Boston Globe.  He seems to be one of the rare ones in their media market with good sense and objectivity.    I've enjoyed reading him this week. 

[Moose Of Woe]

I really do hope NE is stupid enough to take all of this to a court of law. Lying, kicking and screaming the whole way while obstructing the case.

 

Imagine when the court order comes for those cell phone records and they find they've been doing it since 2007, which "more probable then not"they have been.

[OffensivelyPC]

They said they would fully cooperate, then didn't.

I can't imagine anything will go to any court as that would be really dumb.

yeah it wouldnt. Cases like Adrian Peterson and Ray Rice involved procedural issues that let the NFLPA get the case overturned. This is squarely a factual issue, and the evidence alone is damning, let alone the fact that it was damning without having to resort to going through Brady's personal communications. He is toast.

[ponyboy]

I can't believe some of you Colts fans are still trying to reason with her.  It ain't happening fellas because she is willfully blind.

 

Thanks for the article.

 

I don't think she's willfully blind.  I doubt she even believes everything she's saying.  But she's got a story to spin and she'll keep spinning it hard.

[basspapaw]

I doubt if this has a lot of merit for a legal case either way.  This is an association that is ruled by it's own agreements.  That's why "guilt" is determined by what the players and league have agreed to in advance.  That's why the burden of proof is what they have agreed that it is.  That's why it doesn't take absolute, irrefutable proof to bring punishment.

 

It is a privilege to play in the NFL, not a right.  

Thanks

[basspapaw]

Here it is ,six games

http://www.spoilerfreescores.com/News/1523

[basspapaw]

Here it is

http://www.spoilerfreescores.com/News/1523

Believe it or not.

[BlueShoe]

I can't believe some of you Colts fans are still trying to reason with her.  It ain't happening fellas because she is willfully blind.  Here is Dan Shaugnessy's latest article.  I printed an excerpt especially for you guys.  Take note.  lol

 

"There is Patriot world, where everything is awesome, Bob Kraft is Gandhi, Bill Belichick is a god, and Tom Brady would never do anything to disgrace the uniform or the game. And there is the rest of the free-thinking world. Where reality lives."

 

"In Patriot world, the NFL is out to get you. Everybody is out to get you. It’s a conspiracy. It’s a sting. The Wells Report is ridiculously flawed. There are factual errors. The league was OK playing half of the AFC Championship game with footballs that might have not been inflated properly. The other 31 franchises are insanely jealous of the Patriots’ success. A couple of New England’s adult ball boys maybe went off the reservation, but all the evidence against the Patriots is circumstantial. The league has nothing."

 

"In the rest of the free-thinking world, the Patriots are liars and cheaters. They were caught red-handed in Spygate in 2007 and now the league has got them again. The Patriots intentionally and systematically deflated footballs, below legal limits, to accommodate Brady. They did it because they believed it gave them a competitive advantage (more completions, less fumbling, better play in bad weather — all Patriot trademarks). Brady knew about it, lied about it, then withheld information from the Wells investigators."

 

"None of the above is going to change. Folks are going to align themselves with one side or the other. Even after the penalties are announced."

 

You can view the rest of the article here...

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/09/reality-not-looking-good-for-tom-brady-and-patriots/IGT3myWkYdZagI4FCzkHKJ/story.html

 

Kudos to Dan, for having the stones to tell the Boston people how it is. 

 

That said, I bet they try to burn down his house, and run him out of town soon. If he is forced out then I hope the Indy media hires him, because like him or not, he tells it to you straight. 

[Bones_Jones]

is this posted here yet?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/wells-report-disregards-andersons-best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/

 

 

That’s how investigations that start with a predetermined outcome and work backward unfold. (Holy crap, I think I’m beginning to agree with Don Yee.) And that’s why Wells should have concluded based on the scientific evidence that the question of whether tampering occurred in connection with the AFC title game is inconclusive.

 

 

Brady needs to sue the league if he gets any kind of suspsension.   just fine him and move on.

[OffensivelyPC]

Here it is

http://www.spoilerfreescores.com/News/1523

Believe it or not.

That's just a rumor.  It hasn't been handed down yet.