DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[Hoosier]

 

I get what Patriots fans are wanting to say here. The report didn't flat out say Brady/the ball boys/aliens did it but it essentially went like this:

 

Let's say you are trying to prove there is a fire in a room. Ted Wells is giving you the following hints that there might be one by saying the following:

 

-There is a strong amount of heat coming from this room.

-There is the sound of crackling wood coming from this room.

-There is smoke coming from under the door of this room.

 

Now, a Patriots fans would try and tell you that there is no proof that there is an actual fire in that room but everyone else will tell you what's really in that room.

 

Even if you produced a videotape of Tom Brady himself jamming an ice pick into a football, the same blind, brainwashed narrative would continue for some.  

[Superman]

True, and clearly the league is going to tighten up those protocols. Once the footballs are submitted that should be it. They already have someone watching/minding the K-balls, so just hire another guy to do the same with the game balls. 

 

Thing is, the people minding the K-balls are employees of the home team, right? I think they'll be adding independent personnel on the officiating team to handle and monitor all the game balls.

[GoPats]

This is to ALL the Pats fans on here:

 

What has happened is a tragedy to the NFL and fans alike.  If you were one of the many who had posted your disappointment and shame in this debacle, I feel for you, as a fan and appreciate your open honesty and sportsmanship. 

 

 

I've spent the entire morning saying that I think Brady lied to Wells, but c'mon dude. A tragedy? That's way over the top. 

[csmopar]

I've spent the entire morning saying that I think Brady lied to Wells, but c'mon dude. A tragedy? That's way over the top. 

Tragedy....maybe not, but for sure a disgrace.

[Lawrence Owen]

I've spent the entire morning saying that I think Brady lied to Wells, but c'mon dude. A tragedy? That's way over the top. 

It is a tragedy when a rolemodel for MANY people, bold face lies to their fans.  They are under a microscope 24/7, and when you lie to protect something you have done wrong, you inherently make your image more important than those whom look up to you.  (which ends up backfiring when you are caught.)

I was brought up that lying about doing something wrong is worse than the act itself.  For many reasons.

[Gramz]

Believe it or not, I was thinking of you as I typed!!

. Well I know it was not due to any obsession or connection to Uggs

[RockThatBlue]

Tom Brady's agent released a statement and it is........well.........hilarious!!!!!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/tom-bradys-agent-blasts-the-wells-report/

Biggest issue seems to be why the NFL didn't tell the Patriots they were being investigated prior to the game. I don't even know why that is an argument!? WHY THE HECK WOULD THE LEAGUE TELL A TEAM THEY ARE GOING TO BE INVESTIGATED BEFORE A GAME!? Just so the Patriots are aware and then stop cheating for that one game so they don't get caught. Redicilous.

NFL and the Colts framed the Pats? Don't think so. NFL gets nothing out of doing that. Ecspecialy when Tom has been the NFL's golden boy.

Patriots.... Just admit your wrong!!!! It will pass over quicker if they just admit that they cheated.

Bradys agent sounds like a child.

"I didn't have my hands in the cookie jar even though you seen me with my hands in the cookie jar!"

[Lawrence Owen]

For instance:

If Irsay had not came out publicly and admitted he had a problem when he was arrested.  And instead tried to cover it up, I would have been abashed.  But now I root for him to recover from his problem and hope he can overcome it for the long term.  

[OffensivelyPC]

But IF there is a certain conclusion that they hope to reach, then a report can be presented in a certain way to help guide those initial judgements. Many have been talking about how the terminology used is common legal practice and what not....well it is also common practice for them to frame arguments and use terminology as a way to reach a desired conclusion. Evidence that doesn't support that narrative is often buried in a report and not emphasized as much as assumptions that support that conclusion. 

 

People have their thoughts, but as long as the possibility exists for a different conclusion, it's fair to question. That is the frustrating part about the terminology used. I understand why they did and I understand that it is enough for the NFL...but it guides the perception one direction while reality could possibly exist somewhere in the other.

To buy that, you have to assume that Ted Wells has an agenda (or the NFL) to frame the arguments in a way less favorable to Tom Brady and hte Patriots.  Starting with that presumption, it's going to matter little in the minds of someone who doesn't want ot believe what the guy has to say, regardless of what evidence is in the report.  This guy was hired to make an unbiased report for the benefit of the body overseeing the misconduct.  So if the report seems one sided, it's perhaps because the evidence points to that conclusion.  

 

But more importantly, I find it hard to believe that the NFL would frame a report in a manner that throws one of the people considered to be one of the faces of the NFL, just to save face.  For all the heat the NFL has taken over the past year, the NFL's image would take an even bigger hit than if Brady lied and covered up the deflation of footballs.  Not even the NFL is going to risk that just so it can have a scapegoat.  Neither would an independent investigator risk his reputation to write a report to skew findings a certain way.  Is it possible?  Sure, anything is possible.  But without anything but speculation to support that notion, the logical assumption is that words in the report are there because that's what was discovered.  

[bavanlan]

The nickname does a lot to implicate, that's true...but the possibility still exists that it was the two workers shooting the spit back and forth and calling each other the deflator.

My co workers and I do this all the time.

"Hey Deflator, I'm gonna need those TPS reports!"

"Sure thing, Deflator! I'm gonna need you to work this weekend...that'd be great..."

[amfootball]

 

I've spent the entire morning saying that I think Brady lied to Wells, but c'mon dude. A tragedy? That's way over the top. 

 

Brady's agent said much of his testimony was left out of the report so I would first like to hear from Brady himself before calling him a liar. It is obvious that this report was crafted in a way to support a certain conclusion but lacks the necessary proof to come to any definitive conclusion either way.

[amfootball]

To buy that, you have to assume that Ted Wells has an agenda (or the NFL) to frame the arguments in a way less favorable to Tom Brady and hte Patriots.  Starting with that presumption, it's going to matter little in the minds of someone who doesn't want ot believe what the guy has to say, regardless of what evidence is in the report.  This guy was hired to make an unbiased report for the benefit of the body overseeing the misconduct.  So if the report seems one sided, it's perhaps because the evidence points to that conclusion.  

 

But more importantly, I find it hard to believe that the NFL would frame a report in a manner that throws one of the people considered to be one of the faces of the NFL, just to save face.  For all the heat the NFL has taken over the past year, the NFL's image would take an even bigger hit than if Brady lied and covered up the deflation of footballs.  Not even the NFL is going to risk that just so it can have a scapegoat.  Neither would an independent investigator risk his reputation to write a report to skew findings a certain way.  Is it possible?  Sure, anything is possible.  But without anything but speculation to support that notion, the logical assumption is that words in the report are there because that's what was discovered.  

To your second graph, I think it is MUCH worse for the NFL to hire its own investigator after it set up a blatant sting operation in a title game after being told by the Colts the day before and then have the investigator come back exonerating the accused team. I can't think of a worse look for the NFL actually as no matter the outcome of this as they had the Colts play an ENTIRE half with what might have been underinflated footballs in an effort to catch the Pats red-handed and a SB berth was at stake ...

[dynasty13]

My co workers and I do this all the time.

"Hey Deflator, I'm gonna need those TPS reports!"

"Sure thing, Deflator! I'm gonna need you to work this weekend...that'd be great..."

 

Well in the context of your office setting, that probably would not be a relevant nickname.. ... ...

[Buck Showalter]

To your second graph, I think it is MUCH worse for the NFL to hire its own investigator after it set up a blatant sting operation in a title game after being told by the Colts the day before and then have the investigator come back exonerating the accused team. I can't think of a worse look for the NFL actually as no matter the outcome of this as they had the Colts play an ENTIRE half with what might have been underinflated footballs in an effort to catch the Pats red-handed and a SB berth was at stake ...

Sting operation...

BWAHAHAHA...

hillarious

[Hoosier]

My co workers and I do this all the time.

"Hey Deflator, I'm gonna need those TPS reports!"

"Sure thing, Deflator! I'm gonna need you to work this weekend...that'd be great..."

Oh, everyone does.

"Did the Deflator pick up those land surveys?"

"Hey, Deflator. Can you drop some fries?"

"Step back and let the Deflator handle this."

[bavanlan]

To your second graph, I think it is MUCH worse for the NFL to hire its own investigator after it set up a blatant sting operation in a title game after being told by the Colts the day before and then have the investigator come back exonerating the accused team. I can't think of a worse look for the NFL actually as no matter the outcome of this as they had the Colts play an ENTIRE half with what might have been underinflated footballs in an effort to catch the Pats red-handed and a SB berth was at stake ...

A sting operation involves changing the circumstances to ensure a person participates. Having the attendant, on the NFLs behalf, ask Brady if he wants the balls deflated would be a sting operation.

This is equivalent to being tipped off about a robbery and waiting outside the jewelry store for the robbers.

Nothing was done by the NFL to ensure the ability to participate.

[amfootball]

This report keeps getting more stinky the further we go:

 

11 Patriots footballs vs. four Colts footballs. In rejecting Bill Belichick's explanation about the science of how PSI in footballs will naturally drop in certain conditions, the Wells report concluded that the average rate of drop in 11 Patriots footballs was significantly more than the average rate of drop in four Colts footballs. Why 11 to four? Because officials measured only four Colts footballs, as they were running out of time before the second half began. This simply isn't fair to take a larger sample size and compare it to a smaller sample size. For example, I could just as easily pick the initial four Patriots PSI measurements (a drop from 12.5 to 11.80, 11.20, 11.50 and 11.00 from alternate official Dyrol Prioleau), match them up with the four Colts measurements (a drop from an estimated 13.0/13.1 to 12.35, 12.30, 12.95 and 12.15 from Prioleau), and come to a different conclusion that the drop rates of PSI between the two teams were close. Also, it's clear when matching the PSI readings between the two alternate officials that there is margin for error in the readings. Thus, I reject the Wells report explanation for dismissing the role of science based on their usage of this uneven data between teams.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4781236/turning-a-critical-eye-on-wells-report

[jvan1973]

Brady's agent said much of his testimony was left out of the report so I would first like to hear from Brady himself before calling him a liar. It is obvious that this report was crafted in a way to support a certain conclusion but lacks the necessary proof to come to any definitive conclusion either way.

he didn't provide the investigators with his phone. That is non compliance with the leagues mandate. He lied about not knowing McNally. Its pretty clear

[bavanlan]

Well in the context of your office setting, that probably would not be a relevant nickname.. ... ...

Right, no one in my office deflates footballs before games.

Thanks for making my point.

[coltsfanmilyman]

Did some reading last night... I was 100% wrong! 

 

The texts and other evidence Wells compiled was far more compelling than I had anticipated, mainly because of the summary judgment, Kraft's response, and other factors we've heard over the past 100+ days. If anything, "more probable than not" was an understatement. I would have pegged it as "highly probable." 

 

So, mea culpa. Objectively speaking, Brady has to be suspended at least for the opener. I would not even protest to something in the range of 4 games. Beyond that, might be a bit excessive... the $25K team fine that's the "on the books" guideline for punishment for improper footballs has to be considered (as it's pretty mild, relatively speaking), but Brady's real mistake here was not owning it. The league will likely come down on him for that more than the actual footballs.

 

It sucks for us Pats fans, but it is what it is. To ignore things like one of the guys referring to himself as "the deflator" would be asinine. I'm a lot of things but unreasonable usually isn't one of them. (Though the missus may disagree there...)

 

The crazy part, which is almost exactly like Spygate, is the "why?" He clearly didn't need an advantage, however minor anyone may think it is, against you guys. He played lights-out against an extremely good defense in the Super Bowl with the cleanest footballs in the history of the sport. A softer ball gives you slightly better grip, resulting in improved accuracy for some throwers, but it takes velocity off the ball. With the give-and-take nature of it, and the possible consequences, and the team's history/reputation fallout from Spygate, it was very foolish of Brady to push the envelope. 

 

There are still some holes in the story for me, but I don't think they would change the end result. It's my hope that the Patriots or Brady will come out with something here to try to get final closure on it. The best cure, of course, will be to go out next year and tear it up, and to try to show the world that "yeah, we pushed the rules for an advantage, but we're still the Patriots and we're still going to beat you up." Maybe in the end, this serves as motivation for them to go out there and try to destroy every team in their way. We'll see, I guess. 

 

One of the hardest things to do at times is to admit when you're wrong. I'm doing it here, and Brady should too. 

 

 

You deserve a standing Ovation from this forum, it takes alot of character, integrity, and class to post what you did.  Well said man!

[amfootball]

he didn't provide the investigators with his phone. That is non compliance with the leagues mandate. He lied about not knowing McNally. Its pretty clear

No it's not. Brady is not required to hand over this private phone. And the investigators had the ball boy phones which would have shown any communication with Brady anyways.

 

Again, according to Brady's agent his testimony was left out so I would like to see how he framed McNally relationship ...

[Gramz]

The posts continue to amuse me.

In all seriousnees, I believe anything relevant to the investigation was put in the report.

Those wanting to claim that the majority of Tom's interview was left out, must mean it was not relevant.

Given the fact that this took over 100 days, and more than likely a large number of people were interviewed I am willing to bet quite a bit of irrelevant chatter was left out.

[Superman]

Sting operation...

BWAHAHAHA...

hillarious

 

"Hey guys, someone said that you guys were tampering with footballs, so we're gonna check your footballs at halftime, k? Just a heads up..."

[Surge89]

This report keeps getting more stinky the further we go:

 

11 Patriots footballs vs. four Colts footballs. In rejecting Bill Belichick's explanation about the science of how PSI in footballs will naturally drop in certain conditions, the Wells report concluded that the average rate of drop in 11 Patriots footballs was significantly more than the average rate of drop in four Colts footballs. Why 11 to four? Because officials measured only four Colts footballs, as they were running out of time before the second half began. This simply isn't fair to take a larger sample size and compare it to a smaller sample size. For example, I could just as easily pick the initial four Patriots PSI measurements (a drop from 12.5 to 11.80, 11.20, 11.50 and 11.00 from alternate official Dyrol Prioleau), match them up with the four Colts measurements (a drop from an estimated 13.0/13.1 to 12.35, 12.30, 12.95 and 12.15 from Prioleau), and come to a different conclusion that the drop rates of PSI between the two teams were close. Also, it's clear when matching the PSI readings between the two alternate officials that there is margin for error in the readings. Thus, I reject the Wells report explanation for dismissing the role of science based on their usage of this uneven data between teams.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4781236/turning-a-critical-eye-on-wells-report

 

Lol... so your stance of argument because not all footballs were measured (due to time) the information gathered isn't worth anything? lol...  Colts footballs were all within reason of the 12.5 mark there were plenty on the Patriots side not even showing 12 as the whole number... rofl...

 

Also you estimating now that the Colts use 13 PSI balls hmm?  what proof is there on that and if so then why is there footballs with 2 PSI drops (sorry greater than 1 since this will be scrutinized like you are doing to everything else) on the Patriots side? lol...

 

You see you're diggin a hole there...

[jvan1973]

No it's not. Brady is not required to hand over this private phone. And the investigators had the ball boy phones which would have shown any communication with Brady anyways.

Again, according to Brady's agent his testimony was left out so I would like to see how he framed McNally relationship ...

Not turning over emails and texts was considered non compliance with the investigation. I guarantee that will be considered in the punishment he receives

[amfootball]

Lol... so your stance of argument because not all footballs were measured (due to time) the information gathered isn't worth anything? lol...  Colts footballs were all within reason of the 12.5 mark there were plenty on the Patriots side not even showing 12 as the whole number... rofl...

11 to 4 is not the same sample size ...

[Girlzarefanstoo]

No it's not. Brady is not required to hand over this private phone. And the investigators had the ball boy phones which would have shown any communication with Brady anyways.

 

Again, according to Brady's agent his testimony was left out so I would like to see how he framed McNally relationship ...

You are convincing exactly no one.  You might learn from the example of GoPats.

[amfootball]

Not turning over emails and texts was considered non compliance with the investigation. I guarantee that will be considered in the punishment he receives

Sure it might be but I was not arguing that.

[amfootball]

You are convincing exactly no one.  You might learn from the example of GoPats.

I am not trying to convince. Just sharing what is being reported now that folks have had time to actually read the report. It is obvious it has more holes than swiss cheese .....

[OffensivelyPC]

To your second graph, I think it is MUCH worse for the NFL to hire its own investigator after it set up a blatant sting operation in a title game after being told by the Colts the day before and then have the investigator come back exonerating the accused team. I can't think of a worse look for the NFL actually as no matter the outcome of this as they had the Colts play an ENTIRE half with what might have been underinflated footballs in an effort to catch the Pats red-handed and a SB berth was at stake ...

I'm not sure how that makes the NFL look worse.  It referees did the same thing it is supposed to do before every game. It tested them pre-game and they were in compliance.  That's all they needed to do.  Then when it was brought to their attention that the intercepted football was underinflated, they tested it, found it was, and reinflated that ball and any other ball to reach compliance levels.  I don't understand how you reach the idea of "sting operation" when the refs executed it's standard game day protocol.

[Superman]

he didn't provide the investigators with his phone. That is non compliance with the leagues mandate. He lied about not knowing McNally. Its pretty clear

 

I don't think the league mandated or can mandate that Brady turn over his private phone. He and the Pats said they'd cooperate fully with the league's investigation, and they didn't (Brady's phone, the Pats not making whatshisname available for the fifth follow-up interview), so it doesn't reflect well on him. And I could see the league taking that into consideration as they decide how to proceed. But it's not obstruction of justice or anything like that. 

 

If my job was investigating me for something and they asked to go through my phone records, I wouldn't be required to allow them to do that. If they threatened to fire me, I'd probably lawyer up.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Suspension up to one year according to Miami herald. This hit the patriots pretty hard and they were not expecting this according to mike Reiss.

http://cbsloc.al/1IR0X4P

 

Not happening. Not in my eyes anyways, it would be inconceivable. Guys who get popped for PEDs only get 4 games, so how in the world can anyone think Brady is going to get a full year out of this?

[amfootball]

I'm not sure how that makes the NFL look worse.  It referees did the same thing it is supposed to do before every game. It tested them pre-game and they were in compliance.  That's all they needed to do.  Then when it was brought to their attention that the intercepted football was underinflated, they tested it, found it was, and reinflated that ball and any other ball to reach compliance levels.  I don't understand how you reach the idea of "sting operation" when the refs executed it's standard game day protocol.

They league was informed by Grigson the day before the game that he was concerned about the Pats air pressure. They never notified the Pats or had the balls gauged before kickoff. They waited an entire half to catch the Pats and in the process compromised the integrity of the title game. That is the part if I was a Colts fan, I would be really ripped about.

[Superman]

11 to 4 is not the same sample size ...

 

So what? The Pats balls were significantly lower than they should have been. The Pats ball attendant ducked into the bathroom with the balls after refs had checked them. 

 

There is no dragnet type of activity required here. One team was out of compliance, and it's well documented. I don't know why you're trying to deflect here.

[Swan Ronson]

They league was informed by Grigson the day before the game that he was concerned about the Pats air pressure. They never notified the Pats or had the balls gauged before kickoff. They waited an entire half to catch the Pats and in the process compromised the integrity of the title game. That is the part if I was a Colts fan, I would be really ripped about.

The Patriots compromised the integrity of the game. 

[Surge89]

They league was informed by Grigson the day before the game that he was concerned about the Pats air pressure. They never notified the Pats or had the balls gauged before kickoff. They waited an entire half to catch the Pats and in the process compromised the integrity of the title game. That is the part if I was a Colts fan, I would be really ripped about.

 

... still trying to press this?  It's called innocent until proven guilty.  The league isn't owned by Grigson he isn't the lord and savior.  If he makes an accusation the league's responsibility is to ensure there is proof before spouting off at teams.  You know how mad I'd be if the commissioner told me to watch what I'm doing because someone thinks I'm cheating?  Without any proof? So naturally they took what he said and applied in a normal setting without accusing anyone.  The Patriots (or Brady I guess) just damned themselves by actually cheating.  They weren't "owed" a warning or anything.  Which is what you are insinuating and if you think you aren't then you need to start checking what you are typing because that is exactly what the Brady's agent is saying.

[OffensivelyPC]

They league was informed by Grigson the day before the game that he was concerned about the Pats air pressure. They never notified the Pats or had the balls gauged before kickoff. They waited an entire half to catch the Pats and in the process compromised the integrity of the title game. That is the part if I was a Colts fan, I would be really ripped about.

This came straight from the Wells Report, page 51:

 

"Anderson typically gauges all of the game balls for one team, and then all of the

game balls for the other team, before testing the back-up balls. He does not remember whether

he began with the Patriots or the Colts game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game.

He does recall that he gauged all of the footballs in the shower area of the locker room prior to

the game."

[Superman]

They league was informed by Grigson the day before the game that he was concerned about the Pats air pressure. They never notified the Pats or had the balls gauged before kickoff. They waited an entire half to catch the Pats and in the process compromised the integrity of the title game. That is the part if I was a Colts fan, I would be really ripped about.

 

This entire line of "reasoning" is patently absurd.

[Happy2BeHere]

If I was a Patriots fan I might have a hard time coming to terms with Brady being a cheater and that it's "probable" he had knowledge which implicates him as a cheater.

 

If I was a football fan I would be disappointed at the player who chose the dishonest path. I would be disappointed if no punishment is handed out. I really don't much care about the deflated football part because to much "lying" about it is far more serious IMO. Furthermore it really puts a black eye on the league...all the dishonesty and negativity that happens with players and teams.

 

However, since I AM a football fan and NOT a Patriots fan I still will continue to believe against all odds that MORE of the people in the league are honest and have integrity (See JJ WATT for example). Full trust up until it's betrayed...which Brady clearly did here.

 

If this happened to the team I love (take a wild guess here folks which team it is ) I would be utterly disappointed...and yea I'd admit it because I just can't admire anyone willing to lie, steal, or cheat to gain advantage over anyone else...and by the way our country does NOT....I repeat DOES NOT have a GUN problem...we have a PEOPLE problem. Plain and simple!

[cdgacoltsfan]

They league was informed by Grigson the day before the game that he was concerned about the Pats air pressure. They never notified the Pats or had the balls gauged before kickoff. They waited an entire half to catch the Pats and in the process compromised the integrity of the title game. That is the part if I was a Colts fan, I would be really ripped about.

The league and the Colts compromised the integrity of the game?.... LOL...here comes yet another asterick and black eye for the Golden Boy and his group of liars and cheaters.