Did anyone agree with Mike Carey on his ruling? Is this a fumble or an incomplete pass?

[John Waylon]

Definitely a fumble. The ball was moving because his arm was moving. He secured the ball. Had he fell to the ground untouched it would have been called a reception.

[Fx Stryker]

I honestly can see it go either way. If this picture is of TY then the vote will be an incomplete pass.

Andre catches the ball with his left foot down, takes a right step, and on the second full step the ball comes loose tucking the ball in. Now did he make a football move? The NFL rules don't define what that is. The precedent has always been two full steps. So since he starts losing control on the second full step is that established control? Is it a classic drop scenario, no. But there has been clearer fumbles that went called as incomplete, and clearer incomplete passes go as fumbles.

[MacDee1975]

What's your point? It's still a fumble whether Andre dropped it on his own or Vontae caused it. Andre clearly gained control of the ball before losing it. As open widow so eloquently put it "Carey was high".

 

Exactly.

 

Clear fumble.  Not sure why this is viewed as any sort of controversy.

[Coffeedrinker]

I thought it was a fumble.  He had control of the ball and was running.  He fumbled it when he tried to secure it with his right arm (I believe) so he he stiff arm Davis with the other.

 

For the most part I don't think the refs were that bad last night.  The call on Kerr, while devastating was the correct call.  I never saw a reply of VDs pass interference so I can't comment on that.  AJ offensive pass interference was the correct call and something he has done for years.

[Narcosys]

Hmm, it'd be funny if I posted this exact same thread on a Houston Texans forum and they all say it's incomplete, lol.

Social experiment. You should do it. Would be interesting.

[indyagent17]

Mike Carey likes to side with our opponents when he is asked to comment 

 

Johnson tucked the ball under his arm made two steps and then lost the ball, it was obviously a fumble, you could even tell by Johnson's demeanor on the sidelines before the call was made and it sounded like Carey speaking when Johnson was upset saying it is incomplete 4 times

 

Carey looks silly when he comments,

[ruksak]

I typically respect Mike Carry. But he made a clown out of himself by insisting that wasn't a fumble. The ball looked clearly secured immediately upon catching it, 3 steps and he tries to switch arms to free up his stiffarm and dropped it. 

 

Carry was wrong. Remember, these calls are being double verified through a control center in NY. Carry did not earn his paycheck with that clumsy assessment. 

[ColtsLegacy]

I honestly can see it go either way. If this picture is of TY then the vote will be an incomplete pass.

Andre catches the ball with his left foot down, takes a right step, and on the second full step the ball comes loose tucking the ball in. Now did he make a football move? The NFL rules don't define what that is. The precedent has always been two full steps. So since he starts losing control on the second full step is that established control? Is it a classic drop scenario, no. But there has been clearer fumbles that went called as incomplete, and clearer incomplete passes go as fumbles.

You're trying way too hard to be objective and condescending at the same time. Yes, we're Colts fans and, yes, we're biased but that doesn't make this any less an obvious fumble.

[ColtsLegacy]

Or he could have been mad at the poor call? Just playing advocate of the horned one.. I'm pretty sure it was a fumble.

1/10 devil's advocate...

There's no doubt Andre was * off at himself.

[SteelCityColt]

1/10 devil's advocate...

There's no doubt Andre was * off at himself.

 

I know, I know, it was a reach  

[schwamm]

Carry was on a roll last night, IMO. He also went on about why pass interference should NOT have been called when the CB bumped Nicks 20 yards downfield. Wrong again.

[House]

Carey clearly has an ego. He was not just wrong, but defiantly so.

Easy fumble.

[Superman]

You're trying way too hard to be objective and condescending at the same time. Yes, we're Colts fans and, yes, we're biased but that doesn't make this any less an obvious fumble.

 

I don't know if it was obvious or easy. I think if it was called incomplete on the field, it would have been tough to overturn. It's a judgment call, made in the heat of the moment. I could see arguments for it being incomplete, but to me, it's a catch and a fumble.

[swflacoltsfans]

It was clearly a fumble. Mike Carey needs glasses and an understanding of the rules. No wonder he is no longer a ref.

[OffensivelyPC]

I don't know if it was obvious or easy. I think if it was called incomplete on the field, it would have been tough to overturn. It's a judgment call, made in the heat of the moment. I could see arguments for it being incomplete, but to me, it's a catch and a fumble.

It was pretty close.  But I saw a catch and ball brought into a ball carrying position, so to me, I thought it was a pretty easy call.  But then again, I thought this was an easy call, too:

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

I look at it 'different'.  I think of AJ catching that at the one yard line and 3 yards from going out of bounds.  No defender nearby.  I think if it goes as it did, comes out and goes out of bounds at the 1, they call it a catch and fumble out of bounds.  So it should be the same here.  But I thought it had a chance to be overturned.

 

Make  no mistake, Blandino, the VP of officiating, is heavily involved directly in all replays.  His voice is strong.  I've seen him overturn calls, and also agree with them.  The reason Blandino has the 'pull' ?  Consistency.  Blandino wants all calls that involve him (reviews) go the same way every game for every team.  All review calls set precedence for the rest of the season.

[PotatoHead]

Andre Johnson knew it was a fumble and so did everyone else except Carey!

[B~Town]

I honestly can see it go either way. If this picture is of TY then the vote will be an incomplete pass.

Andre catches the ball with his left foot down, takes a right step, and on the second full step the ball comes loose tucking the ball in. Now did he make a football move? The NFL rules don't define what that is. The precedent has always been two full steps. So since he starts losing control on the second full step is that established control? Is it a classic drop scenario, no. But there has been clearer fumbles that went called as incomplete, and clearer incomplete passes go as fumbles.

It doesn't matter who is in the picture a catch 3 steps then dropping the ball is a fumble .

[Turftoe]

I look at it 'different'.  I think of AJ catching that at the one yard line and 3 yards from going out of bounds.  No defender nearby.  I think if it goes as it did, comes out and goes out of bounds at the 1, they call it a catch and fumble out of bounds.  So it should be the same here.  But I thought it had a chance to be overturned.

 

Make  no mistake, Blandino, the VP of officiating, is heavily involved directly in all replays.  His voice is strong.  I've seen him overturn calls, and also agree with them.  The reason Blandino has the 'pull' ?  Consistency.  Blandino wants all calls that involve him (reviews) go the same way every game for every team.  All review calls set precedence for the rest of the season.

 

I had a similar thought.  If that initial catch had been made at the 1 yard line and then dropped in the end zone, I strongly believe it would have been called (and upheld as) a TD.

[Synthetic]

There was a play just like this in the Saints/Bucs game on the last drive before OT where Colston fumbled after catching the ball and pressing both feet down (the ball was stripped after his feet were down), and they ended up calling it an incomplete pass and there was no officiating challenge on it. You heard it from me, that was a fumble, and so was this last night.

[jvan1973]

There was a play just like this in the Saints/Bucs game on the last drive before OT where Colston fumbled after catching the ball and pressing both feet down (the ball was stripped after his feet were down), and they ended up calling it an incomplete pass and there was no officiating challenge on it. You heard it from me, that was a fumble, and so was this last night.

not close to the same thing. AJ took three steps before he fumbled

[chrisfarley]

Good call ON THE FIELD.

[Dr. Guildo]

The two people who voted against it being a fumble are Houston fans I guess, hahaha.

[Chase]

When I heard Carey, I thought I had somehow changed channels.

[ricker182]

  The call on Kerr, while devastating was the correct call. 

I don't agree. He was clearly lined up in the gap and not over the center.

[ricker182]

not close to the same thing. AJ took three steps before he fumbled

and he turned upfield. That makes a huge difference.

[Gordon Leffel]

OK seriously . He got it made three steps then lost it.. I seriously have no idea why mike Carey would call that an incomplete

[Hamboning Will Save URLife]

FUMble

[braveheartcolt]

Fumbletown, Arizona.

Every day, all day.

[jvan1973]

Fumbletown, Arizona.

Every day, all day.

I bet it would suck playing football for Fumbletown High School. They have to be terrible

[zibby43]

According to Carey's logic (the ball was still moving), a ball carrier can juggle the ball 99 yards, drop it at the 1, and it's an incomplete pass. 

 

I would love to sit down in a room full of officials after a week of games and ask them what the hell they were thinking when making calls XY and Z. 

[Superman]

According to Carey's logic (the ball was still moving), a ball carrier can juggle the ball 99 yards, drop it at the 1, and it's an incomplete pass. 

 

 

 

Well, that would be true, if the receiver never establishes control of the football. 

[zibby43]

Well, that would be true, if the receiver never establishes control of the football. 

 

I was referencing how the ball started to slip in Johnson's hands after he established controlled (tucked, turned, and started running).

 

According to Carey, because the ball started to move again, he still didn't have control.  That's not simply true.  The ball can move all the time (from hand to hand, etc.) after there's control.

[Superman]

I was referencing how the ball started to slip in Johnson's hands after he established controlled (tucked, turned, and started running).

 

According to Carey, because the ball started to move again, he still didn't have control.  That's not simply true.  The ball can move all the time (from hand to hand, etc.) after there's control.

 

That's the key, once he establishes control, it's a catch. He doesn't need to make a football move, he doesn't have to take two steps, etc. 

 

The only time he must maintain control for an extended stretch of time is if he's going to the ground while trying to make the catch. 

[Superfly Jay]

Fumble no question

[ricker182]

Anyone catch the interception in Cleveland that Mike Carey continually said "no way it would stand"?

He wasn't even close and the commentator called him out on it.

[PrincetonTiger]

It was a fumble

[B~Town]

Anyone catch the interception in Cleveland that Mike Carey continually said "no way it would stand"?

He wasn't even close and the commentator called him out on it.

Yep I'm just glad he's not on the field anymore . There was no evidence the ball hit the ground right call by the refs that still have there jobs .

[ricker182]

Yep I'm just glad he's not on the field anymore . There was no evidence the ball hit the ground right call by the refs that still have there jobs .

The commentator was like "so even though you can't see the ball hit the ground you're just going to assume it did?" and Carey said, "Yes. This will be overturned."

[ColtsBlueFL]

The commentator was like "so even though you can't see the ball hit the ground you're just going to assume it did?" and Carey said, "Yes. This will be overturned."

 

Blandino will make the call, and teach the refs each game.  That's why every review is done in New York. Blandino would have overruled Carey a few times already this years while they were in the booth and in communication.