The mess that is the interior O Line

[akcolt]

The interior line really has just as many questions as it did a year ago. The five players that should make up the majority of the rotation include:

• A vet still recovering from two season-ending muscle tears who has never started a 16-game season
• A veteran 17 months removed from playing in a regular-season game who has never started 16 games
• A second-year guard who was among the league’s worst during his rookie season
• A second-year center who played 13 snaps during his rookie season
• A rookie                                                                                                                  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2091915-the-5-biggest-issues-facing-the-indianapolis-colts-with-otas-wrapped/page/6

This doesn't put my mind at ease.  Hopefully a year under his belt and back to his natural position Thorton is much improved. Who knows what Holmes or Mewhowrt are going to be. None of the vets have ever made it a full season.

 

Interesting piece on Louis friom 09:  Lance Louis played right tackle and started eleven games, but the Bears may use him as a run blocking tight end. He is athletic with straight line speed for the guard, tackle, or tight end position.

[TKnight24]

You guys really need to let this thing play out. Stop with all the doom & gloom threads about the interior line that none of us know what it'll be yet. At least wait until weeks 7-9ish to give a review of it. My goodness people, Rome wasn't built overnight you know

[GoColts8818]

Well one thing we know about it is that other than Thomas is that the middle of the line is young.  They need sometime to grow up.  Holmes would hardly be the first guy in NFL history to not play much his rookie year and then grow into a starter in his second year if it works out for him. 

 

As for the other guys one is a rookie so who knows what we will get out of him and hopefully Thornton can turn all the experience he got from starting last year into something to grow on.  I wonder if he might not be better off at right guard where I think they originally planed for him to play than when he was drafted.  I know Rick Venturi was on the radio a lot last year and talked about how the way Castonzo plays and the way Thornton plays made a gap between them just inviting a D-lineman to take advantage of it. 

 

The line has been a work in progress and those who wanted an over night fix you weren't going to get it.  With that said Grigson is going into year three of fixing the o-line on his watch.  While the tackles look solid keep in mind one of them was not his guy so really out of the four spots on the line he needed to fix he's found one.  He's going to have to do a better job than that. I think this will be a major year either for the o-line to take a step forward or for Grigson to be stuck trying to fix it which could lead to his down fall here one day.

[AwesomeAustin]

You guys really need to let this thing play out. Stop with all the doom & gloom threads about the interior line that none of us know what it'll be yet. At least wait until weeks 7-9ish to give a review of it. My goodness people, Rome wasn't built overnight you know

I agree 100%!!! I have read on and on over numerous threads people stating how we need to finally address the OL due to Polian neglecting it. Well, we are and I love the prospects and depth we are finally building. Anyone that has played organized football beyond high school knows that it takes time and also a bit of trial and error. It is what it is so as fans we need to accept it. Its coming and we will have a physical line that plays a power man scheme and controls the line of scrimmage. I personally can't wait to watch the progress this year and the following. Finally some smash mouth football with a great QB and big receivers. Yeah buddy!

[akcolt]

You guys really need to let this thing play out. Stop with all the doom & gloom threads about the interior line that none of us know what it'll be yet. At least wait until weeks 7-9ish to give a review of it. My goodness people, Rome wasn't built overnight you know

Really did not mean that to sound as gloom and doom as it did. I used the Bleacher Report title first paragraph surprised me a little  when I read it so I shared.

 

I am actually optimistic about the O Line this year. I do think it will be Louis don't think Thomas will be ready but I am good with that why I added the little piece on him

 

Really just need to avoid injuries build some cohesiveness

 

I am very optimistic about the team think the D finally comes around too expect big things

[TKnight24]

Really did not mean that to sound as gloom and doom as it did. I used the Bleacher Report title first paragraph surprised me a little when I read it so I shared.

I am actually optimistic about the O Line this year. I do think it will be Louis don't think Thomas will be ready but I am good with that why I added the little piece on him

Really just need to avoid injuries build some cohesiveness

I am very optimistic about the team think the D finally comes around too expect big things

Rule #22 of the forum, never include anything bleacher report related in your work. Do your part, then put the link to the BR article

Just a pointer as you move forward in your posting career

[Smonroe]

Really did not mean that to sound as gloom and doom as it did. I used the Bleacher Report title first paragraph surprised me a little  when I read it so I shared.

 

I am actually optimistic about the O Line this year. I do think it will be Louis don't think Thomas will be ready but I am good with that why I added the little piece on him

 

Really just need to avoid injuries build some cohesiveness

 

I am very optimistic about the team think the D finally comes around too expect big things

 

Don't apologize.  This is (obviously) the keystone for the season.  Yes, we have concern about our Safety position.  Yes, we're not sure who's going to put pressure on the QB (even when Mathis comes back).

 

But, let's face it, this team lives and dies with the offense.  The first question I ask myself is - can this O line be WORSE than last season?  I kind of doubt it.  So let's say it's at least as good as last season - then you add Wayne, Nicks, Allen, Bradshaw, Ballard, more experienced WRs from last season and TRich with playbook knowledge.

 

Yeah, I think we'll be fine.

[AntonMcG]

Really did not mean that to sound as gloom and doom as it did. I used the Bleacher Report title first paragraph surprised me a little  when I read it so I shared.

 

I am actually optimistic about the O Line this year. I do think it will be Louis don't think Thomas will be ready but I am good with that why I added the little piece on him

 

Really just need to avoid injuries build some cohesiveness

 

I am very optimistic about the team think the D finally comes around too expect big things

 

The points you presented are valid concerns. Whilst most of us believe the interior line will be an upgrade, there are no guarantees, for the reasons specified.

 

P.S. Don't listen to post monkeys who care more about their post count than contributing anything of substance to any dicussion. You are perfectly within your rights to make a topic raising these concerns, as is the nature of discussion forums.

[BrentMc11]

Nobody ever seems to mention Xavier Nixon.  The kid played his heart out last year, and I feel he will be able to also fill in at different positions.

 

We also have Joe Reitz who could very easily step in at LG and has experience with AC....this line has much more promise than last year's unit.  I AM looking for Thomas to come back at some point and show why we spent some cash on him as well             !!

[Gavin]

Valid concerns. I cant say whether or not we will be better...Though its hard to believe its possible to be worse (Of course David Carr would disagree and who could blame him)......I have my concerns, But right now I am just sitting back and relishing in the fact that Mcglynn and Satele are both not wearing a Colts uniform

[YOUR GM]

My concerns with the O-line have just as much to do with the coaching as it does the actual players. Our staff failed for 16 consecutive weeks to put the best 5 on the field last year. That is alarming, and has me worried that even if we have the horses this year (no pun), they still might not even see the field. I don't even know why they brought Reitz back. He's just gonna be burried on the depth chart again this season, too

[BrentMc11]

My concerns with the O-line have just as much to do with the coaching as it does the actual players. Our staff failed for 16 consecutive weeks to put the best 5 on the field last year. That is alarming, and has me worried that even if we have the horses this year (no pun), they still might not even see the field. I don't even know why they brought Reitz back. He's just gonna be burried on the depth chart again this season, too

Interesting point, and I happen to agree with you on the bolded.  Reitz is better than Thornton at LG. McGlynn looked better at C than Satele, and anyone not named McGlynn was better at RG....even Link   

[lollygagger8]

Samson Satele (and McGlynn) are gone. 

 

Our O-Line is exponentially better.

 

Seriously, that's like winning the lottery. 

[lollygagger8]

My concerns with the O-line have just as much to do with the coaching as it does the actual players. Our staff failed for 16 consecutive weeks to put the best 5 on the field last year. That is alarming, and has me worried that even if we have the horses this year (no pun), they still might not even see the field. I don't even know why they brought Reitz back. He's just gonna be burried on the depth chart again this season, too

 

I agree with this. I still don't understand how our former O-Lineman GM didn't shuffle the line around until he had the best combo (Castanzo, Reitz @ LG, McGlynn @ Center, Thornton @ RG, Cherilus)  and then stick with it. Last year was hard to watch. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Rule #22 of the forum, never include anything bleacher report related in your work. Do your part, then put the link to the BR article

Just a pointer as you move forward in your posting career

And the Rule #23 is never post a link the a BR blog piece.  Posters are too busy to waste their time there.

[BrentMc11]

Samson Satele (and McGlynn) are gone. 

 

Our O-Line is exponentially better.

 

Seriously, that's like winning the lottery. 

I'll take mine in hundreds please

 

[JPFolks]

I think we got bit by the injury bug (as many teams do) but it happened to pound us in the weakest spots to start with.  Now this time around, we'll have more injuries, it's just part of the game, but as long as Luck is upright and healthy, I think he could work with just about anyone and still pull out a win.  As long as the defense isn't hemorrhaging points, 13-3, as predicted by USA Today, is possible.  In fact, I only see 2 possible losses after we get past Week 2.  But I think we have our two toughest games (Den & Phi) of the season right out of the gate.  If we can at least split those two, we are going to have a monster season.  If we win them both, well, it could be an all time great season.  Luck is in year 3... he's ready to compete for a Super Bowl win with even an average line and average D.  Since Pagano is a Def Backfield guru, I trust he knows what he is doing and what he has in the tank to start.

 

Brian 

[throwing BBZ]

The interior line really has just as many questions as it did a year ago. The five players that should make up the majority of the rotation include:

• A vet still recovering from two season-ending muscle tears who has never started a 16-game season
• A veteran 17 months removed from playing in a regular-season game who has never started 16 games
• A second-year guard who was among the league’s worst during his rookie season
• A second-year center who played 13 snaps during his rookie season
• A rookie                                                                                                                  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2091915-the-5-biggest-issues-facing-the-indianapolis-colts-with-otas-wrapped/page/6

This doesn't put my mind at ease.  Hopefully a year under his belt and back to his natural position Thorton is much improved. Who knows what Holmes or Mewhowrt are going to be. None of the vets have ever made it a full season.

 

Interesting piece on Louis friom 09:  Lance Louis played right tackle and started eleven games, but the Bears may use him as a run blocking tight end. He is athletic with straight line speed for the guard, tackle, or tight end position.

 

 As a tandem our tackles gave up the 4th most hurries and Castonzo was much worse than Gosder. Imagine if we had a stationary QB in Arians O. that would be Horrendous.

 Satele 19 Total sacks,hits, and hurries last season. Alex Mack-25.   Not that i wanted him back in Anyway!

 

 IMO your evaluation of where our Line is HEADING is ___ Backwards. Go Colts!

[BrentMc11]

 As a tandem our tackles gave up the 4th most hurries and Castonzo was much worse than Gosder. Imagine if we had a stationary QB in Arians O. that would be Horrendous.

 Satele 19 Total sacks,hits, and hurries last season. Alex Mack-25.   Not that i wanted him back in Anyway!

 

 IMO your evaluation of where our Line is HEADING is ___ Backwards. Go Colts!

Dwayne Allen will be HUGE.....on both sides...cannot wait.

[21isSuperman]

I'm not sold on the interior OL, but I do think they have potential.  Holmes is a smart guy and he's had a year to get stronger and get to know the playbook.  Thornton was able to get some playing time last year as a rookie, so that experience is really good.  Donald Thomas is really good if he can stay healthy.  Then you have Lance Louis and Xavier Nixon, both of whom have shown flashes in the past.  I don't think our interior OL talent matches up with teams like San Fran, but I do think the guys have the potential to be a solid, reliable group

[Smonroe]

My concerns with the O-line have just as much to do with the coaching as it does the actual players. Our staff failed for 16 consecutive weeks to put the best 5 on the field last year. That is alarming, and has me worried that even if we have the horses this year (no pun), they still might not even see the field. I don't even know why they brought Reitz back. He's just gonna be burried on the depth chart again this season, too

 

We've been through this before (you and I), and I respect your right to have your own opinion.  But it's just that, your opinion.  It's not a fact.  You may be right, but none of us can make that statement without knowing what's going on in practice and in the film room.  We don't really know who had minor injuries or better instincts, even if they were better athletes.

 

Again, I respect your opinion.  I just don't agree with it.  I think our coaches are putting what they consider to be the best 5 on the field.  And I think they have a lot more information than we do.  I don't think our owner, GM, or head coach would risk the franchise just to prove they made the right trade, picked up the right guy, or want to use their favorite over a better player.

 

And that's MY opinion.

[Everyone]

The interior line really has just as many questions as it did a year ago. The five players that should make up the majority of the rotation include:

\

[ProblChld32]

Taking it with a grain of salt , i want to see how everything unfolds before making pre-mature assumptions.

[Gavin]

I'm not sold on the interior OL, but I do think they have potential.  Holmes is a smart guy and he's had a year to get stronger and get to know the playbook.  Thornton was able to get some playing time last year as a rookie, so that experience is really good.  Donald Thomas is really good if he can stay healthy.  Then you have Lance Louis and Xavier Nixon, both of whom have shown flashes in the past.  I don't think our interior OL talent matches up with teams like San Fran, but I do think the guys have the potential to be a solid, reliable group

Im hoping beyond hope that Cherilus stays healthy this year because if not I am willing to bet Louis would be the first in line on the depth chart if he makes the final 53 (and I believe in all probability he will for his ability to be a back up RG with the ability to start a few games) to play Right Tackle.......And if he plays Right Tackle........Im gonna start wishin we had Winston Justice back

[Burls' Kid's]

Really did not mean that to sound as gloom and doom as it did. I used the Bleacher Report title first paragraph surprised me a little  when I read it so I shared.

 

I am actually optimistic about the O Line this year. I do think it will be Louis don't think Thomas will be ready but I am good with that why I added the little piece on him

 

Really just need to avoid injuries build some cohesiveness

 

I am very optimistic about the team think the D finally comes around too expect big things

 

 

Don't you ever apologize for speakin' the truth. What you said is FACT...NOT OPINION. You're right my brother.

[BrentMc11]

We've been through this before (you and I), and I respect your right to have your own opinion.  But it's just that, your opinion.  It's not a fact.  You may be right, but none of us can make that statement without knowing what's going on in practice and in the film room.  We don't really know who had minor injuries or better instincts, even if they were better athletes.

 

Again, I respect your opinion.  I just don't agree with it.  I think our coaches are putting what they consider to be the best 5 on the field.  And I think they have a lot more information than we do.  I don't think our owner, GM, or head coach would risk the franchise just to prove they made the right trade, picked up the right guy, or want to use their favorite over a better player.

 

And that's MY opinion.

I do know Gilbert was fond of Thornton having him at Illinois.  I loved the draft choice as well.  I really want to see him back at RG...he started out well for us at LG until he had some nagging injuries.  The only two I disagreed with all year were our 2 worst linemen on the field with Reitz on the bench virtually all year.

[Smonroe]

I do know Gilbert was fond of Thornton having him at Illinois.  I loved the draft choice as well.  I really want to see him back at RG...he started out well for us at LG until he had some nagging injuries.  The only two I disagreed with all year were our 2 worst linemen on the field with Reitz on the bench virtually all year.

 

I agree.  But we don't know how Reitz's various injuries affected him week to week.  When we saw him on the field he looked decent.  I remember reading Ben Gundy (I think that's his name) doing an analysis of each block for each player on Colts Authority.  He said Reitz didn't really grade out any better than the other G's.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

I have my concerns, But right now I am just sitting back and relishing in the fact that Mcglynn and Satele are both not wearing a Colts uniform.

^^^^^^This^^^^

[BrentMc11]

I agree.  But we don't know how Reitz's various injuries affected him week to week.  When we saw him on the field he looked decent.  I remember reading Ben Gundy (I think that's his name) doing an analysis of each block for each player on Colts Authority.  He said Reitz didn't really grade out any better than the other G's.

He was actually healthy most of the year until the concussion....I HATED the jumbo package on 3rd downs ALL of the time.

 

:ref:  "# 74 is reporting eligible,"  URRGH...

[akcolt]

Don't you ever apologize for speakin' the truth. What you said is FACT...NOT OPINION. You're right my brother.

I am a little more optimistic then the original post may have come across. I just read that and was like holy sh^t. 

[Burls' Kid's]

I am a little more optimistic then the original post may have come across. I just read that and was like holy sh^t. 

 

 

 I have high hopes too, but what you stated is current FACT. Until proven otherwise...i really hope you're wrong BTW.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I agree 100%!!! I have read on and on over numerous threads people stating how we need to finally address the OL due to Polian neglecting it. Well, we are and I love the prospects and depth we are finally building. Anyone that has played organized football beyond high school knows that it takes time and also a bit of trial and error. It is what it is so as fans we need to accept it. Its coming and we will have a physical line that plays a power man scheme and controls the line of scrimmage. I personally can't wait to watch the progress this year and the following. Finally some smash mouth football with a great QB and big receivers. Yeah buddy!

Polian bashing again :slaphead:

[Blueblazes]

Really did not mean that to sound as gloom and doom as it did. I used the Bleacher Report title first paragraph surprised me a little  when I read it so I shared.

 

I am actually optimistic about the O Line this year. I do think it will be Louis don't think Thomas will be ready but I am good with that why I added the little piece on him

 

Really just need to avoid injuries build some cohesiveness

 

I am very optimistic about the team think the D finally comes around too expect big things

Don't apologize for anything you said. You were on the money. We have a lot of mediocrity on an extremely important group on the team, the O-line. After Cherilus, whom played quite well last season, there is no one that is more than mediocre. Yes, they may prove to be a decent group, but you are dead on the money when you ask the question and make a valid point. Especially when this group protects Andrew Luck.

[ztboiler]

Im hoping beyond hope that Cherilus stays healthy this year because if not I am willing to bet Louis would be the first in line on the depth chart if he makes the final 53 (and I believe in all probability he will for his ability to be a back up RG with the ability to start a few games) to play Right Tackle.......And if he plays Right Tackle........Im gonna start wishin we had Winston Justice back

There is nothing to suggest that Louis will be first in line to backup Cherilus at RT.  It is much more likely that Nixon, Reitz or Mewhort get that call.  I like the odds that Louis is on the Roster, but more like our 9th lineman unless he supplants someone at G.

[BrentMc11]

There is nothing to suggest that Louis will be first in line to backup Cherilus at RT.  It is much more likely that Nixon, Reitz or Mewhort get that call.  I like the odds that Louis is on the Roster, but more like our 9th lineman unless he supplants someone at G.

Xavier Nixon had been listed as the backup RT.  Reitz as LT and LG backup along with Mewhort as backup right and left guard.

[YOUR GM]

I agree. But we don't know how Reitz's various injuries affected him week to week. When we saw him on the field he looked decent. I remember reading Ben Gundy (I think that's his name) doing an analysis of each block for each player on Colts Authority. He said Reitz didn't really grade out any better than the other G's.

I don't want to get into a big argument over this, but you can't try to discredit what I say because I'm not a Colts staffer, and then turn around and cite a Colts blogging site as proof to further your point. It's kind of hypocritical

The fact that McGlynn and Satele are gone while Reitz was retained despite his contract being up says to me that maybe the staff saw what many of us saw after reviewing the tape last year. Maybe Reitz should've been ahead of a few guys who were starting. Just a thought

[Smonroe]

I don't want to get into a big argument over this, but you can't try to discredit what I say because I'm not a Colts staffer, and then turn around and cite a Colts blogging site as proof to further your point. It's kind of hypocritical

The fact that McGlynn and Satele are gone while Reitz was retained despite his contract being up says to me that maybe the staff saw what many of us saw after reviewing the tape last year. Maybe Reitz should've been ahead of a few guys who were starting. Just a thought

 

No argument, I wasn't trying to discredit what you said.  I was just pointing out that it was your opinion, and not based on any inside knowledge (if I'm wrong, please correct me).  You stated it as if it was a fact that the best linemen were not on the field.

 

As far as Reitz, I make no claims to be an expert on O linemen.  So I was referencing a blogger who gives his OPINION.  If you read his articles, he always has a disclaimer stating that he's basing his review on what he sees.  He has no insight into assignments.  What looks like a missed block from player A may really be player B's responsibility. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong about him, I thought he looked better than the other G's too.  I don't know why he wasn't playing (I thought it was injuries, but others have said no). 

[Coffeedrinker]

He was actually healthy most of the year until the concussion....I HATED the jumbo package on 3rd downs ALL of the time.

 

:ref:  "# 74 is reporting eligible,"  URRGH...

Pretty sure Reitz is #76 

 

I don't think it was AC that was eligible.

[BrentMc11]

Pretty sure Reitz is #76 

 

I don't think it was AC that was eligible.

I even looked up the number...and I knew he was 76.  I need to use the readers