Donald Brown: Is it him, or is it the offensive line? A quick game play review.

[GoColts8818]

I think it was more the bears defense than anything. They would often bring both safties down on predictable run plays and clog all gaps. Predictable calls by us good defense by the bears.

I am not so much saying you are one of the people talking about this Cannon you just happened to bring it up in this post. I've seen people complain about the predictable play calling thing. Here's the thing on most plays at home I can sit at home and know what an NFL team is going to do on most plays. I might not know the exact play they are going to call but I can normally tell if it's going to be a run or a pass based on things like how they line up how much time is left in the game what the score is and what the down and distance is. If I can figure that out with no coaching experience what's so ever I can only guess how much better NFL coaches are at figuring out what you are going to do. Good teams often aren't great because they have wild and crazy plays called they are great because they do a great job running the plays that are called regardless of what the defense is called. They just out execute the other team. So I take less issue with the fact that our plays are predictable than most because I think most plays are predictable in the NFL it comes down to are better than the other team at running it. I don't know how many times I've seen a team line up to run on us and I know full well it's going to be a run. The Colts know it's going to be run everyone in the stadium knows it's going to be a run and yet the other team will run over the Colts defense because the Colts weren't good enough to stop it. So it's not so much about knowing what the other team is going to do or the other team knowing what you are going to do it's able being able to do it better than they can. Right now when it comes to run blocking we can't do it better than other teams and that's a major issue.

[Moncrief]

If you recall in the game Sunday from the few carries Vick had, he didn't do that great either he was stopped in the backfield as well, its not the back carrying the ball its the Olines performance. BTW Brown outperformed Ballard.

You're not the first to tell me

EDIT that kind of sounded like a jerk reply. I've already been told that before. Their that's better

[BIGugly]

Donald doesn't go down with any little contact... idk what Donald brown your talking about... the guy is a cutback runner but he can run between the tackles... he just doessnt have the bulk and muscles of am Adrian Peterson but he can hold his own that's for sure

I think it was more the bears defense than anything. They would often bring both safties down on predictable run plays and clog all gaps. Predictable calls by us good defense by the bears.

There is more than a grain of truth in each of these quotes. We have TE's O.T.A. Why aren't we using them to seal off one side or the other and bouncing Brown just outside end? Part of this problem is Bruce Arian's play selection. If it ain't working, do something else. We hired these TE's to block, then let's utilize them and get Brown to the outside quickly, he can make the cut up and get a little bit of something. Maybe even get all the way outside. Give him a shot at it, anyway. If the safetles are gap shooting, Brown can beat them to the outside, especially with a litlle pitch from Luck. Who knows, might even open up play action passing.

Just a thought...

Talked to a friend of mine in Pittsburgh today, he was putting it on me pretty hard about losing Manning and gaining Arians...Understand Manning....Do NOT understand Arians...

[Smitto]

There is more than a grain of truth in each of these quotes. We have TE's O.T.A. Why aren't we using them to seal off one side or the other and bouncing Brown just outside end? Part of this problem is Bruce Arian's play selection. If it ain't working, do something else. We hired these TE's to block, then let's utilize them and get Brown to the outside quickly, he can make the cut up and get a little bit of something. Maybe even get all the way outside. Give him a shot at it, anyway. If the safetles are gap shooting, Brown can beat them to the outside, especially with a litlle pitch from Luck. Who knows, might even open up play action passing.

Just a thought...

Talked to a friend of mine in Pittsburgh today, he was putting it on me pretty hard about losing Manning and gaining Arians...Understand Manning....Do NOT understand Arians...

I agree with several of what you said there but couldn't understand the last part.

The colts brought those two TEs in to mimic the pats and they don't do much running but more and more I see them trying to mimic the steelers old offence.

I think come the Vikings game we will find out a lil more about this offense

[ProblChld32]

You're not the first to tell me

EDIT that kind of sounded like a jerk reply. I've already been told that before. Their that's better

Didn't mean to come off as a jerk or offend you, My apologies; was just making a statement on my thoughts!

[BleedingBlue]

With all this talk of about Donald's play yesterday, I did a quick rundown of all the running plays by Donald through NFL Game Rewind. This is purely a discussion about his running, and not those two bone-headed dropped passes (which I don't think will be a persistent problem).

1st Quarter

Hit 2 yards behind line of scrimmage for -2 yards

HIt 4 yards behind line of scrimmage of -4 yards

2nd Quarter

Hit 1 yard beyond line of scrimmage for +18 yards

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +18 yards and TD

3rd Quarter

Hit at line of scrimmage for +1 yard

Hit 3 yards behind line of scrimmage for -3 yards

Hit 1 yard behind line of scrimmage for no gain

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +7 yards

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +13 yards

4th Quarter

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +2 yards

Hit at line of scrimmage for no gain

________________________________________________

So, totaling all the numbers up:

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 4 rushes for -9 yards --> -2.25 YPA

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 7 rushes for 59 yards --> +8.42 YPA

________________________________________________

This is a really small sample, and someone may want to check to plays out to see if I made any mistakes. It was a bit difficult sometimes from the camera angle to tell exactly when the defense first got to DB. But if this is accurate, it suggests what some of the fans have been saying all along: when the offensive line actually does its job well and keeps Brown clean up to the line of scrimmage, he averages a very impressive +8.4 YPA. When he gets hit behind the line of scrimmage, he averages negative yardage.

Discuss.

Interesting perspective. My response would be DeMarco Murray's 48 yard run where he LEVELED Tuck and bounced outside.

We need someone who can make things happen not rely on being untouched out of the backfield.

[Moncrief]

Didn't mean to come off as a jerk or offend you, My apologies; was just making a statement on my thoughts!

No you're fine I meant a jerk reply on my behalf.

[Mouthfire]

Interesting perspective. My response would be DeMarco Murray's 48 yard run where he LEVELED Tuck and bounced outside.

We need someone who can make things happen not rely on being untouched out of the backfield.

Yeah, I watched that play. I don't think you can count that play, since it was a run to the right end, and he really didn't get touched until he reached the line of scrimmage. Brown reeled of a 13 yd and 18 yd run (twice) when he got to the line of scrimmage cleanly.

The point being: there's a difference between getting hit after getting a full head of steam, and getting hit as soon as you get the handoff. The latter is what really accounted for DBs negative yardage this last game.

[needanoline63]

Donald Brown may not have the best stats, but keep in mind, he still had a better average than Chris Johnson in this round (11 carries and 4 yards, against Patriots)

It has to be the play calling, I don't see how you can have Chris johnson as your back then having david Stewart, Steve Hutchinson, Michael Roos and leroy Harris as your line.

[mystrymaster]

I am going to be very sad the day we let Donald brown go and gets picked up by someone like Atlanta and he has a couple good years showing that it was the online after all.

He is not a bruising back he is a speed back with great balance, when you manage expectations reality can always surprise.

[BleedBlu8792]

I am going to be very sad the day we let Donald brown go and gets picked up by someone like Atlanta and he has a couple good years showing that it was the online after all.

He is not a bruising back he is a speed back with great balance, when you manage expectations reality can always surprise.

First off, and as I put on another post, I'm not much of a Brown supporter at all, but I'm starting to come around and I completely agree with what you said. However, I think he's a much better change of pace back, and NOT a 1st down back. That's what completely screwed Addai up, whom I WAS a major supporter of. When Dom was here Addai's first year they both worked so well together. Dom was the hard hitter that softened up the defense and Addai was the shifty guy who took advantage of what Dom did early on. Donald is a guy you want against a defense whose been beaten on for a little while because his speed is very deceptive. Early on I would use Ballard and Carter to beat on that defensive front and get them used to a slower more powerful back THEN bring in Donald and let him catch them off guard with his speed and use him later in games just like they did with Addai/Rhodes. Once Addai became the lead back he pretty much faded. He wasn't meant to be the "main" guy as he never was at LSU and I don't think Donald is that type of guy either although he did do it in college.

My other point was that I don't think you're (mystrymaster) going to have to worry about Donald going anywhere. He's not been that productive enough to really command any type of money so he will be relatively cheap for the Colts. On top of that I'm sure they see his potential as a threat when he's given holes to get through. I look for him, Carter, and Ballard to be here a while. Together, in my opinion, that is a dang good rotation and a cheap one at that.

To go a little further; To me its not about whose starting but about getting the right guys in there to help those around them succeed. If I were Donald I wouldn't be upset that Vick or Delone was starting. In no way is that saying they are better, but more-so helping Donald out and what he brings skill wise to the table. I'd be telling them to soften up that defense for me so I could go in and give the knockout punch. Like I mentioned about Addai, when he was in that change of pace role he still gained 1000 yards and was the RB ever to have done that and not started a game. Donald has that same ability in him.

[BIGugly]

I agree with several of what you said there but couldn't understand the last part.

The colts brought those two TEs in to mimic the pats and they don't do much running but more and more I see them trying to mimic the steelers old offence.

I think come the Vikings game we will find out a lil more about this offense

Last part should have been separate post. Just rambling about Arians not being a great offensive coordinator and Manning being a great offensive coordinator, even though he got quarterback pay.

[hawkeyes]

Brown had a decent game but those dropped passes are unacceptable at this level.

Those drops were huge IMO ... I think one of them could have ended up a TD the other would have been a big gain... If he catches those balls the outcome would have been different.

[jbaron04]

With all this talk of about Donald's play yesterday, I did a quick rundown of all the running plays by Donald through NFL Game Rewind. This is purely a discussion about his running, and not those two bone-headed dropped passes (which I don't think will be a persistent problem).

1st Quarter

Hit 2 yards behind line of scrimmage for -2 yards

HIt 4 yards behind line of scrimmage of -4 yards

2nd Quarter

Hit 1 yard beyond line of scrimmage for +18 yards

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +18 yards and TD

3rd Quarter

Hit at line of scrimmage for +1 yard

Hit 3 yards behind line of scrimmage for -3 yards

Hit 1 yard behind line of scrimmage for no gain

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +7 yards

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +13 yards

4th Quarter

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +2 yards

Hit at line of scrimmage for no gain

________________________________________________

So, totaling all the numbers up:

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 4 rushes for -9 yards --> -2.25 YPA

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 7 rushes for 59 yards --> +8.42 YPA

________________________________________________

This is a really small sample, and someone may want to check to plays out to see if I made any mistakes. It was a bit difficult sometimes from the camera angle to tell exactly when the defense first got to DB. But if this is accurate, it suggests what some of the fans have been saying all along: when the offensive line actually does its job well and keeps Brown clean up to the line of scrimmage, he averages a very impressive +8.4 YPA. When he gets hit behind the line of scrimmage, he averages negative yardage.

Discuss.

here's a stat for you brown average 8 yards a carry running left an 3 running right side of line

[GusBus24]

I don't have a problem with Donald Brown but I have to say he is just not a starter in the NFL he would be a great backup but not a starter. I think the Colts need to let Ballard play so we can see what he has if not I think we need to see a trade involving Brown this season!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Brown is a fine RB. What I'd like to see more of is when the middle is stuffed up, instead of pushing into it and getting taken down is to bounce off and shoot out laterally quickly and get outside contain. then turn it up North for a solid gain from nothing. Of course, our line so bad that there's probably no room bouncing outside either direction, too.

[Dr. T]

Who in the NFL is good at getting positive yardage after getting hit behind the line of scrimmage? AP, maybe? MJD? There aren't a whole lot out there.

And... not to mention when he DOES get hit AT the line of scrimmage, he still averages +6.3 YPA. It's not an issue of getting hit or breaking tackles. It's more a matter of where he gets hit.

There was one Colt who was really good at making yards after being hit in the backfield. And his name was THE EDGE.

[BleedingBlue]

Even Edges weed smoking cousin found the hole better than DB. I was a huge DB supportter as I was a huge Addai supporter. i think BleedBlue8792 has it right about letting Ballard wear down the D before bringing in DB.

[Gavin]

Heres another stat I found telling of being consistent with running the ball and not giving up on it, The Bears ran for negative yards 4 times (one more time then the Colts did) but they stuck with the run and got 114 yards but only ran the ball for 3.5 ypc, Vikings had 5 runs for negative yards and also had as many ypc as the Colts, The difference? they rushed 29 times (no Im not expecting an average quite that high, Im expecting and HOPING if Luck is going to survive his rookie year for an average of 25, My point is this, our run game was working better then people think, Adrian Peterson didnt run for 4-5 ypc on every down he simply broke a big gainer or two JUST LIKE Donald Brown and I honestly believe Brown has Peterson like capabilities, Brown likely has slightly less power but Peterson doesn't have a ton of power either he is no Jerome Bettis, Brown showed power on a couple runs and quite a bit of it, he can catch the ball out of the backfield and not many will catch him in the open field

[mystrymaster]

Heres another stat I found telling of being consistent with running the ball and not giving up on it, The Bears ran for negative yards 4 times (one more time then the Colts did) but they stuck with the run and got 114 yards but only ran the ball for 3.5 ypc, Vikings had 5 runs for negative yards and also had as many ypc as the Colts, The difference? they rushed 29 times (no Im not expecting an average quite that high, Im expecting and HOPING if Luck is going to survive his rookie year for an average of 25, My point is this, our run game was working better then people think, Adrian Peterson didnt run for 4-5 ypc on every down he simply broke a big gainer or two JUST LIKE Donald Brown and I honestly believe Brown has Peterson like capabilities, Brown likely has slightly less power but Peterson doesn't have a ton of power either he is no Jerome Bettis, Brown showed power on a couple runs and quite a bit of it, he can catch the ball out of the backfield and not many will catch him in the open field

I agree with most of what you said except for one thing, Brown doesn't have Peterson power, AP can truck some fools in the open field. Brown has good balance, he can take a shot in the side and stay running while going with the hit. He is a ping pong back.

[chrisfarley]

I agree with most of what you said except for one thing, Brown doesn't have Peterson power, AP can truck some fools in the open field. Brown has good balance, he can take a shot in the side and stay running while going with the hit. He is a ping pong back.

The Vikings are horrible, it won't matter about Peterson's speed. They are just flat-out awful.

[lucky dog]

Over the last two years, the four players with the best yards-after-contact average in the league (minimum 100 carries) are Ben Tate, Spiller, Stevan Ridley and Donald Brown.

BUT, those drops were crucial and darn near unforgivable. The first rule of catching any ball, anywhere, anytime, is KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE BALL. He's a highly trained athlete and those balls were perfectly thrown right into his hands,

Not to mention how it ripped the scab off an extremely painful wound inflicted by Garcon in our last SB.

[Gavin]

I agree with most of what you said except for one thing, Brown doesn't have Peterson power, AP can truck some fools in the open field. Brown has good balance, he can take a shot in the side and stay running while going with the hit. He is a ping pong back.

I think honestly the sky is the limit with Brown if he gets the carries , nah Brown doesn't quite have Peterson power (I dont think) but Peterson isn't a Jerome Bettis type back either, Brown can get some 3rd and shorts

[Gavin]

Over the last two years, the four players with the best yards-after-contact average in the league (minimum 100 carries) are Ben Tate, Spiller, Stevan Ridley and Donald Brown.

BUT, those drops were crucial and darn near unforgivable. The first rule of catching any ball, anywhere, anytime, is KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE BALL. He's a highly trained athlete and those balls were perfectly thrown right into his hands,

Not to mention how it ripped the scab off an extremely painful wound inflicted by Garcon in our last SB.

add Wayne to that list for me

[lucky dog]

add Wayne to that list for me

Ya, Reg has had a few, but overall I have to give him a pass due to his dedication and leadership. I was high on Brown after seeing him lead the nation in rushing @ UConn and looking great in a post season all-star bowl game that year (if memory serves me here). I still think he has a ton of potential, and the O-Line hasn't been doing him any big favors the past two years. But he just has these brain lock moments, "Damit Donald" seems to be a recurring theme...so I've tempered my high expectations. Hopefully things will start falling in place for the guy. As a Colts Fan, I certainly hope for the best for him.

[Gavin]

Ya, Reg has had a few, but overall I have to give him a pass due to his dedication and leadership. I was high on Brown after seeing him lead the nation in rushing @ UConn and looking great in a post season all-star bowl game that year (if memory serves me here). I still think he has a ton of potential, and the O-Line hasn't been doing him any big favors the past two years. But he just has these brain lock moments, "Damit Donald" seems to be a recurring theme...so I've tempered my high expectations. Hopefully things will start falling in place for the guy. As a Colts Fan, I certainly hope for the best for him.

I kinda see what you mean but if we are giving Wayne passes for leadership and dedication then shouldn't Brown get a pass because of limited touches?, I think like you mentioned with "damit donald" some have got that stuck in there heads and expect perfection from Donald and obviously the greatest receivers and pass catching running backs of all time have dropped a crucial pass

[lucky dog]

I kinda see what you mean but if we are giving Wayne passes for leadership and dedication then shouldn't Brown get a pass because of limited touches?, I think like you mentioned with "damit donald" some have got that stuck in there heads and expect perfection from Donald and obviously the greatest receivers and pass catching running backs of all time have dropped a crucial pass

True that. I'm still hoping to see Donald break out in a big way, just my expectations for that are largely tempered. I used to get bummed at Marvin H. @ the end of his career for giving up on balls too easily at times, and the guy WAS an all-time great whom I will remember fondly till the day I die. Same with Reggie.... maybe or maybe not with D.B. These are just foggie eyed fans observations, for certain.

[Moose Of Woe]

Even Edges weed smoking cousin found the hole better than DB.

What holes? At least he had some to hit!

[Restored]

It's the offensive line. I watched the game 3 times all the way through and it was the line. Luck was hit on nearly every down and with the exception of a few good drives in the 2nd half, DB had very little room to run, especially on short yardage-type plays. Fix the line and I promise you will see DB run well. It all starts up front.

[JWF]

Def. agree with most as well that Brown isnt the problem. Give him a good Oline and he can be a solid RB. I def. think he is part of the future. Gotta work on those stone hands though.

[superrep1967]

With all this talk of about Donald's play yesterday, I did a quick rundown of all the running plays by Donald through NFL Game Rewind. This is purely a discussion about his running, and not those two bone-headed dropped passes (which I don't think will be a persistent problem).

1st Quarter

Hit 2 yards behind line of scrimmage for -2 yards

HIt 4 yards behind line of scrimmage of -4 yards

2nd Quarter

Hit 1 yard beyond line of scrimmage for +18 yards

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +18 yards and TD

3rd Quarter

Hit at line of scrimmage for +1 yard

Hit 3 yards behind line of scrimmage for -3 yards

Hit 1 yard behind line of scrimmage for no gain

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +7 yards

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +13 yards

4th Quarter

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +2 yards

Hit at line of scrimmage for no gain

________________________________________________

So, totaling all the numbers up:

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 4 rushes for -9 yards --> -2.25 YPA

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 7 rushes for 59 yards --> +8.42 YPA

________________________________________________

This is a really small sample, and someone may want to check to plays out to see if I made any mistakes. It was a bit difficult sometimes from the camera angle to tell exactly when the defense first got to DB. But if this is accurate, it suggests what some of the fans have been saying all along: when the offensive line actually does its job well and keeps Brown clean up to the line of scrimmage, he averages a very impressive +8.4 YPA. When he gets hit behind the line of scrimmage, he averages negative yardage.

Discuss.

Donald Brown is a very productive running back if given some room to run. So It's definitely the o-line that's the problem

[Coffeedrinker]

With all this talk of about Donald's play yesterday, I did a quick rundown of all the running plays by Donald through NFL Game Rewind. This is purely a discussion about his running, and not those two bone-headed dropped passes (which I don't think will be a persistent problem).

1st Quarter

Hit 2 yards behind line of scrimmage for -2 yards

HIt 4 yards behind line of scrimmage of -4 yards

2nd Quarter

Hit 1 yard beyond line of scrimmage for +18 yards

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +18 yards and TD

3rd Quarter

Hit at line of scrimmage for +1 yard

Hit 3 yards behind line of scrimmage for -3 yards

Hit 1 yard behind line of scrimmage for no gain

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +7 yards

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +13 yards

4th Quarter

Untouched at line of scrimmage for +2 yards

Hit at line of scrimmage for no gain

________________________________________________

So, totaling all the numbers up:

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 4 rushes for -9 yards --> -2.25 YPA

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 7 rushes for 59 yards --> +8.42 YPA

________________________________________________

This is a really small sample, and someone may want to check to plays out to see if I made any mistakes. It was a bit difficult sometimes from the camera angle to tell exactly when the defense first got to DB. But if this is accurate, it suggests what some of the fans have been saying all along: when the offensive line actually does its job well and keeps Brown clean up to the line of scrimmage, he averages a very impressive +8.4 YPA. When he gets hit behind the line of scrimmage, he averages negative yardage.

It's like I've been saying since watching Brown for a couple of games as pro... if the hole is where he is expecting it to be, he will hit the hole and make good yardage and he's a threat to take it the distance once he gets to the 2nd level. But if the hole is not where he is expecting and he has to make a decision in the backfield, he typically is indecisive and gets tackled for a loss. I think Brown would be a very good running back behind a good man blocking line. Behind a poor line or a zone blocking line he looks lost.

[Coffeedrinker]

Def. agree with most as well that Brown isnt the problem. Give him a good Oline and he can be a solid RB. I def. think he is part of the future. Gotta work on those stone hands though.

Donald Brown is a very productive running back if given some room to run. So It's definitely the o-line that's the problem

That's not entirely true... behind a good zone blocking line he would still look very mediocre. He needs to be behind a good man blocking line.

[LightninMax]

Frankly, IMO, it's both.

Add to the analysis: When Brown runs into his blockers, he goes down, but when he isn't touched, he scores a TD!

[T Y Goodbye]

Barry Sanders is probably the only player who could look good with the current line.

Walter Peyton never had a line either...but yeah..its nearly impossible with no line..

To me, Brown is a decent back, but it looks like he makes too many mental mistakes, both rushing and receiving

[Warhawk]

Brown is a good RB. He's generally not going to run over people, so the line has to do its job, but he's the kind of guy where, if there's a hole to be found, he'll find it. The line doesn't need to create the kind of space you could sail a battleship through - all they've got to do is give Brown something to work with, and he'll make the most of it, because he has good vision and great burst through the running lane.

[colts52761]

i can't wait to get reitz, justice back. i am hoping anderson can take over at rg and hopefully hicks gets a shot down the road. then brown might have some holes to run through. kind of wonder if we are not better with mcglynn at center instead of satele?

[jemack]

My GOD!!! Can we put this debate to rest? Brown is not an every down back. He was good at UConn!!!!!!!!!!! For His sake!!!!!!!!!!!

He was a 1st round botched abortion of Bill Polian!!!!

[Gavin]

My GOD!!! Can we put this debate to rest? Brown is not an every down back. He was good at UConn!!!!!!!!!!! For His sake!!!!!!!!!!!

He was a 1st round botched abortion of Bill Polian!!!!

Hmm is it your time of the month per chance? just kidding , but seriously if you dont get the holes to run through then ya cant run its that simple, he cant, Ballard cant

[oldunclemark]

Somebody didnt watch today's game....

We cant run between the tackles down 3 (Justice, Ritz and Satele) O-linemen

Coach was just trying to run the clock out