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Donald Brown: Is it him, or is it the offensive line? A quick game play review.


Mouthfire

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Similar analysis of Donald Brown with yesterday's game:

1st Quarter

Hit 1 yard after LOS for +2 yards

Hit 6 yards behind LOS for +4 yards

Hit 1 yard behind LOS for +1 yard

Hit 2 yards after LOS for +2 yards

Hit 1 yard before LOS for no gain

2nd Quarter

Hit at LOS for +2 yards

Hit at LOS for +3 yards

3rd Quarter

Hit at LOS for +5 yards

Hit 5 yards after LOS for +8 yards

HIt 3 yards before LOS for -3 yards

Hit at LOS for no gain

Untouched for +15 yards

Hit 2 yards after LOS for +2 yards

4th Quarter

Hit at LOS for +4 yards

Hit 2 yards before LOS for no gain

Hit 3 yards before LOS for no gain

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 6 rushes for 2 yards --> +0.33 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 10 rushes for 43 yards --> +4.3 YPC

________________________________________________

Overall, althought Brown did not break as many large gains as last week, he was able to limit the damage from being hit behind the LOS better.

He was still hit behind the LOS 37.5% of the time.

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Don't do that. I'm not a Donald Brown hater so you don't have to say the only reason I have my opinion is because of a bias against him. Vick Ballard ran straight to the hole (even when they weren't there.) Donald Brown kept hopping and skipping before he went up field. Most coaches teach you to make a quick cut and get up field. I don't know how many more yards Brown would've gained had he hit the hole hard, but it certainly didn't help him. There was a definite difference in running style between the 2 backs.

Looking at that statistic and ignoring how said player runs is ignoring a key factor in that statistic.

My question is simple though: What difference does it make? Vick Ballard is a far more decisive and fluid runner than Brown. I'm a big Ballard fan. But he and his superior style gained 2.2 yards per carry. Donald Brown can sometimes be infuriating with his inability to see the hole developing right in front of him, but he and his inferior style averaged 2.8 yards per carry. The past two weeks, it doesn't matter what style of back we have, we're not gaining yards on the ground with any consistency because the blocking just isn't there.

There's no satisfaction, in my opinion, on run plays that are consistently defeated before the back even gets to the line of scrimmage.

A lot of people do have a bias against Brown. I'm sorry to have projected that onto you if it's not true. Like you, I'm glad to see Ballard get touches because I think he's going to be a really good back. But I don't think it matters who the back is, our running game isn't going anywhere until we fix the offensive line issues.

Edit: The other thing is that I've seen Brown be decisive and productive with good blocking, like the game late in 2010 against the Jaguars.

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My question is simple though: What difference does it make? Vick Ballard is a far more decisive and fluid runner than Brown. I'm a big Ballard fan. But he and his superior style gained 2.2 yards per carry. Donald Brown can sometimes be infuriating with his inability to see the hole developing right in front of him, but he and his inferior style averaged 2.8 yards per carry. The past two weeks, it doesn't matter what style of back we have, we're not gaining yards on the ground with any consistency because the blocking just isn't there.

There's no satisfaction, in my opinion, on run plays that are consistently defeated before the back even gets to the line of scrimmage.

A lot of people do have a bias against Brown. I'm sorry to have projected that onto you if it's not true. Like you, I'm glad to see Ballard get touches because I think he's going to be a really good back. But I don't think it matters who the back is, our running game isn't going anywhere until we fix the offensive line issues.

It matters because when the holes do open up, I'm not as confident he'll make the right read. I'm of the opinion that our blocking will get better when we, you know, actually have our starters in the game. 4 out of 5 players on our line yesterday were either subs heading into the season or were playing out of position. When we get our guys back healthy, that dancing in the backfield just might be the difference between a key 3rd down conversion and a run for a loss.

That's all I'm getting at.

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It matters because when the holes do open up, I'm not as confident he'll make the right read. I'm of the opinion that our blocking will get better when we, you know, actually have our starters in the game. 4 out of 5 players on our line yesterday were either subs heading into the season or were playing out of position. When we get our guys back healthy, that dancing in the backfield just might be the difference between a key 3rd down conversion and a run for a loss.

That's all I'm getting at.

I jumped on you because of what you said about Ballard. I just don't think it matters when the back is getting hit in the backfield, and I like Vick Ballard better than Donald Brown.

I haven't even begun to analyze our situational running, because the line play overall has been so atrocious. But at this stage of the game, we could have any back in the league, and he wouldn't be doing too much more than our backs are doing now.

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Quick analysis of Adrian Peterson in the same game:

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 3 rushes for 1 yards --> +0.33 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 12 rushes for 56 yards --> +4.67 YPC

Looked remarkably similar to Donald Brown's numbers, except he was hit behind the line of scrimmage 20% of the time, as opposed to 37.5% of the time.

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For those of you still keeping track, Game 3 vs Jags:

1st Quarter

Hit at LOS for +2 yd

Hit 3 yd after LOS for +3 yd

2nd Quarter

HIt 5 yd after LOS for +9 yd

Hit -3 yd behind LOS for -2 yd

Hit 2 yd after LOS for +4 yd

3rd Quarter

Hit -1 yd behind LOS for no gain

Hit 8 yd after LOS for +8 yd

Hit -1 yd behind LOS for no gain

Hit 1 yd after LOS for +4 yd

4th Quarter

Hit 2 yd after LOS for +4 yd

Hit 2 yd after LOS for +6 yd

Hit 4 yd after LOS for +9 yd

HIt 1 yd after LOS for +1 yd

Hit -1 yd behind LOS for +3 yd

Hit -2 yd behind LOS for +2 yd

HIt at LOS for +1 yd

Hit -1 behind LOS for +1 yd

Hit 1 after LOS for for +7 yd

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 6 rushes for 4 yards --> +0.66 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 12 rushes for 58 yards --> +4.83 YPC

________________________________________________

Donald Brown continues to do a better job of minimizing damage when hit behind the line of scrimmage. However, he continues to be hit behind the LOS about 33% of the time.

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Vick Ballard's numbers, for comparison:

1st Quarter

Hit at LOS for +4 yd

2nd Quarter

Hit -1 behind LOS for 0 yd

Hit -2 behind LOS for -1 yd

3rd Quarter

Hit 1 after LOS for +5 yd

Hit 2 after LOS for +4 yd

4th Quarter

No carries

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 2 rushes for -1 yards --> -0.5 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 3 rushes for 13 yards --> +4.33 YPC

________________________________________________

Ballard was hit behind LOS 40% of the time, which is essentially identical to when DB is in the line up.

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From Pro Football Focus....

Of the two backs on display I was far more impressed on this occasion with the Colts version. Donald Brown (+2.5) picked up over 100 yards less than his counterpart but didn’t get anywhere near the support. Time and again a quick cut found space where there was none and his second effort made a five yard gain into nine. With 5:30 gone in the second watch him cut perpendicular to the line then almost immediately north-south and drive through tacklers for four yards after contact.

Throw in the 39 yard catch and run that should have won the Colts the game and this is an all-round back of high quality no one talks about.

Donald Brown is not the problem.

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I honestly thought Sunday was one Brown's better games as a Colt. No he might not have had as many yards as we want/need but that has more to do with the blocking than it does him. He ran very hard and was lowering his shoulder several times and did really well especially to the outside. I think Brown is starting to come into his own and if we can ever get him decent blocking he'd be a really good back in this league.

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Here are Arian Foster's numbers for his game versus the Tennessee Titans, since I did the legwork for another thread.

Arian Foster versus Tennessee Titans

1st Quarter

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +5 yd

Hit at +2 yd after LOS for +5 yd

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +3 yd

Hit at LOS for no gain

Hit at +1 yd after LOS for +3 yd

Hit at +4 yd after LOS for +6 yd

Hit at -1 yd before LOS for no gain

Hit at LOS for +3 yd

Hit at +5 yd after LOS for +7 yd

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +4 yd

2nd Quarter

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +7 yd

Hit at +5 yd after LOS for +5 yd

Hit at +2 yd after LOS for +3 yd

Hit at -3 yd before LOS for -3 yd

3rd Quarter

Hit at -1 yd before LOS for -1 yd

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +16 yd

Hit at +4 yd after LOS for +5 yd

4th Quarter

Hit at +1 yd after LOS for +1 yd

Hit at LOS for +3 yd

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +3 yd

Hit at +5 yd after LOS for +8 yd

Hit at +1 yd after LOS for +2 yd

Hit at +2 yd after LOS for +2 yd

Hit at -1 yd before LOS for -1 yd

________________________________________________

Arian Foster when hit behind line of scrimmage: 4 rushes for -5 yards --> -1.25 YPC

Arian Foster when hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 20 rushes for 91 yards --> +4.55 YPC

________________________________________________

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So, if I'm reading this properly -- and I like to think that I am -- Donald Brown is better than Arian Foster, right?

It might not necessarily mean that Brown is better. If anything, it's an indication of how much better Houston's O-line is compared to ours. Look at how often Foster was able to get past the line of scrimmage before getting touched. I wish we could afford that luxury.
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Is there very many running backs that dont go down with contact? Faulk went down with contact, edge went down with contact. Faulk is a HOF who was so quick, noone could touch him. Edge came into this league with our Oline that was awesome back in the day.They ran a stretch play like no other, we even were able to run stretch play fakes for huge yards because of it. Brown is a decent Pro RB. He always, statisticly, out proformed Addai. We all thought he was awesome at first ( Addia is cut now) Now we see he really wasnt. Our Oline has declined for many years. It is not great now. Give the RB's a break. Brown has never had a solid Oline in front of him. Our Oline has been built to hold the rush long enough for our QB's to throw the ball. Thats it. We will never have a great running game again. Most teams dont. Its a passing league now.

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It might not necessarily mean that Brown is better. If anything, it's an indication of how much better Houston's O-line is compared to ours. Look at how often Foster was able to get past the line of scrimmage before getting touched. I wish we could afford that luxury.

I was joking.

Arian Foster is probably my favorite running back in the NFL right now. He makes it look incredibly easy. He's what I hope Vick Ballard can be, but yes, he gets a ton of help from his offensive line, as the numbers show. But I'm pretty sure Brown's numbers would be a lot better if he were only getting hit behind the line of scrimmage on 16% of his carries like Foster.

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So, if I'm reading this properly -- and I like to think that I am -- Donald Brown is better than Arian Foster, right?

At the very least, it does suggest that the difference may not be that great.

What's also lost in the numbers is yards after contact (YAC). Also from the other thread, regarding their last respective games:

________________________________________________

When Arian Foster is hit behind the LOS, he picks up an extra +0.25 yards after contact

When Arian Foster is hit at or after the LOS, he picks up an extra +2.05 yards after contact

________________________________________________

For comparison, in Brown's last game:

________________________________________________

When Donald Brown is hit behind the LOS, he picks up an extra +2.2 yards after contact

When Donald Brown is hit at or after the LOS, he picks up an extra +4.5 yards after contact

________________________________________________

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It's been the offensive line for five seasons now. Addai was trying to shed tackles behind the line of scrimmage, and people said it was because he sucked. Donald Brown, same thing. Since Tarik Glenn retired and Jake Scott left for Tennessee, our run game has been pathetic at best. Yeah, there's one or two games a season where someone will break a big run (Brown vs. Jags in 2010, Brown vs. Titans in 2011), but that's about it. The line is just trash.

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Week 5: Donald Brown vs. Green Bay Packers

17 carries for 84 yards

Overall 4.94 YPC

1st Quarter

Hit -5 yard behind LOS for +3 yards

Hit +1 yard after LOS for +1 yards

Hit +6 yard after LOS for +14 yards

Hit +5 yard after LOS for +8 yards

2nd Quarter

Hit -1 yard behind LOS for no gain

Hit at LOS for +3 yards

Hit -5 yard behind LOS for +9 yards

Hit +1 yard after LOS for +3 yards

3rd Quarter

Hit +5 yard after LOS for +9 yards

Hit out of bounds at +11 yard after LOS for +11 yards

Hit +5 yard after LOS for +10 yards

4th Quarter

Hit +5 yard after LOS for +6 yards

Hit -2 yard behind LOS for -2 yards

Hit -1 yard behind LOS for +1 yards

Hit +1 yard after LOS for +1 yards

Hit -2 yard behind LOS for -2 yards

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 6 rushes for 9 yards --> +1.5 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 11 rushes for 75 yards --> +6.8 YPC

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: Brown picked up an extra +4.8 yards after contact

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Brown picked up an extra +2.8 yards after contact

________________________________________________

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Week 5: Vick Ballard vs. New Jersey/York Jets

8 carries for 25 yards

Overall 3.13 YPC

1st Quarter

Hit +2 yard after LOS for +4 yards

Hit +4 yard after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +3 yard after LOS for +3 yards

Hit -1 yard behind LOS for +1 yards

2nd Quarter

No carries

3rd Quarter

Hit at LOS for +1 yards

Hit +2 yard after LOS for +4 yards

Hit +2 yard after LOS for +2 yards

Hit +3 yard after LOS for +5 yards

4th Quarter

No carries

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 1 rushes for +1 yards --> +1.0 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 7 rushes for +24 yards --> +3.4 YPC

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: Ballard picked up an extra +2.0 yards after contact

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Ballard picked up an extra +1.1 yards after contact

________________________________________________

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Week 7: Vick Ballard vs. Cleveland Browns

20 carries for 84 yards

Overall 4.2 YPC

1st Quarter

Hit at LOS for +6 yards

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +6 yards

Hit +1 yards after LOS for +2 yards

Hit +4 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit -1 yards before LOS for -1 yards

2nd Quarter

Hit -1 yards before LOS for +1 yards

3rd Quarter

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +4 yard after LOS for +6 yards

Hit +3 yard after LOS for +4 yards

4th Quarter

Hit at LOS for +2 yards

Hit +4 yards after LOS for +6 yards

Hit +5 yards after LOS for +8 yards

Hit +1 yards after LOS for +1 yards

Hit +4 yards after LOS for +7 yards

Hit -1 yards before LOS for no gain

Hit -3 yards before LOS for -3 yards

Hit +1 yards after LOS for +26 yards

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +4 yards

Hit at LOS for no gain

Hit -1 yards before LOS for -1 yards

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 5 rushes for -4 yards --> -0.8 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 15 rushes for +88 yards --> +5.87 YPC (minus 26 yd run --> +4.13 YPC)

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: Ballard picked up an extra +0.6 yards after contact

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Ballard picked up an extra +3.5 yards after contact (minus 26 yd run --> +1.86 extra yards after contact)

________________________________________________

Ballard hit behind the LOS 25% of the time, which is an improvement from the 35-37% consistently allowed by the Colts offensive line.

Stats also created minus the 26 yd carry, for those who are interested to see what Ballard's stats look like apart from that (since that was more a defensive whiff, rather than from Ballard)

Ballard's overall YPC minus 26 yd run --> +3.05 YPC

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Week 7: Delone Carter vs. Cleveland Browns

11 carries for 41 yards

Overall 3.7 YPC

1st Quarter

No carries

2nd Quarter

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +4 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +6 yards

Hit +6 yards after LOS for +6 yards

3rd Quarter

Hit +4 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +2 yard after LOS for +3 yards

Hit +3 yard after LOS for +3 yards

Hit +1 yards after LOS for +2 yards

Hit -1 yards before LOS for +3 yards

4th Quarter

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +3 yards

Hit at LOS for no gain

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 1 rushes for +3 yards --> +3.0 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 10 rushes for +38 yards --> +3.8 YPC

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: Carter picked up an extra +3.0 yards after contact

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Carter picked up an extra +1.1 yards after contact

________________________________________________

Carter hit behind the LOS 9% of the time, which is an improvement from the 35-37% consistently allowed by the Colts offensive line.

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Week 7: Mewelde Moore vs. Cleveland Browns

3 carries for 11 yards

Overall 3.7 YPC

1st Quarter

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +2 yards

2nd Quarter

Hit +5 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +4 yards

3rd Quarter

No carries

4th Quarter

No carries

________________________________________________

No hits behind the line of scrimmage

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 3 rushes for +11 yards --> +3.7 YPC

________________________________________________

No hits behind the line of scrimmage

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Moore picked up an extra +0.33 yards after contact

________________________________________________

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In Week 7, the Colts' offensive line allowed 6 hits to the RB behind the line of scrimmage and 28 hits to the RB at or beyond the line of scrimmage.

Overall, the Colts only allowed 17.6% of runs to be hit behind the line of scrimmage. This contrasts to the 35-37% that they usually allow from week to week.

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In Week 7, the Colts' offensive line allowed 6 hits to the RB behind the line of scrimmage and 28 hits to the RB at or beyond the line of scrimmage.

Overall, the Colts only allowed 17.6% of runs to be hit behind the line of scrimmage. This contrasts to the 35-37% that they usually allow from week to week.

That was the impression I got from it. I haven't gone back to watch the game yet, so I didn't express that, but yeah, the offensive line played much better than they have all season long.

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That was the impression I got from it. I haven't gone back to watch the game yet, so I didn't express that, but yeah, the offensive line played much better than they have all season long.

Yeah, they have playing better over the past few weeks, I'm just hoping this continues to be an upward trend.

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Week 8: Donald Brown vs. Tennessee Titans

14 carries for 80 yards

Overall 5.7 YPC

1st Quarter

No carries

2nd Quarter

Hit -2 yards before LOS for -1 yards

Hit +6 yards after LOS for +7 yards

Hit -5 yards before LOS for +3 yards

3rd Quarter

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +14 yards after LOS for +19 yards

4th Quarter

Hit at LOS for no gain

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +4 yards

Hit +1 yards after LOS for +4 yards

Overtime

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +4 yards

Hit +14 yards after LOS for +19 yards

Hit +6 yards after LOS for +9 yards

Hit +4 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +5 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit -4 yards before LOS for -3 yards

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 3 rushes for -1 yards --> -0.33 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 11 rushes for +81 yards --> +7.3 YPC

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: Brown picked up an extra +3.3 yards after contact

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Brown picked up an extra +2.0 yards after contact

________________________________________________

Brown hit behind the LOS 21% of the time, which is an improvement from the 35-37% previously allowed by the Colts offensive line.

EDIT - Corrected the opponent from Browns to Titans

Edited by Mouthfire
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Week 8: Donald Brown vs. Cleveland Browns

14 carries for 80 yards

Overall 5.7 YPC

1st Quarter

No carries

2nd Quarter

Hit -2 yards before LOS for -1 yards

Hit +6 yards after LOS for +7 yards

Hit -5 yards before LOS for +3 yards

3rd Quarter

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +14 yards after LOS for +19 yards

4th Quarter

Hit at LOS for no gain

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +4 yards

Hit +1 yards after LOS for +4 yards

Overtime

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +4 yards

Hit +14 yards after LOS for +19 yards

Hit +6 yards after LOS for +9 yards

Hit +4 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit +5 yards after LOS for +5 yards

Hit -4 yards before LOS for -3 yards

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 3 rushes for -1 yards --> -0.33 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 11 rushes for +81 yards --> +7.3 YPC

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: Brown picked up an extra +3.3 yards after contact

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Brown picked up an extra +2.0 yards after contact

________________________________________________

Brown hit behind the LOS 21% of the time, which is an improvement from the 35-37% previously allowed by the Colts offensive line.

you mean vs Titans

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Week 8: Vick Ballard vs. Tennessee Titans

12 carries for 55 yards

Overall 4.6 YPC

1st Quarter

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +3 yards

Hit +5 yards after LOS for +7 yards

Hit +5 yards after LOS for +8 yards

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +3 yards

2nd Quarter

No carries

3rd Quarter

Hit at LOS for +2 yards

Hit -2 yards before LOS for -2 yards

Hit +15 yards after LOS for +17 yards

Hit +8 yards after LOS for +13 yards

Hit -1 yards before LOS for +-1 yards

4th Quarter

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +3 yards

Hit -3 yards before LOS for +2 yards

Overtime

Hit at LOS for no gain

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 3 rushes for +2 yards --> +0.66 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 9 rushes for +53 yards --> +5.8 YPC

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: Ballard picked up an extra +1.6 yards after contact

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Brown picked up an extra +1.7 yards after contact

________________________________________________

Ballard hit behind the LOS 25% of the time, which is an improvement from the 35-37% previously allowed by the Colts offensive line.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Week 9: Vick Ballard vs. Miami Dolphins

16 carries for 60 yards

Overall 3.75 YPC

1st Quarter

Hit at LOS for +1 yards

Hit -3 yards before LOS for -3 yards

Hit -3 yards before LOS for -3 yards

2nd Quarter

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +7 yards

Hit +6 yards after LOS for +10 yards

Hit -2 yards before LOS for -2 yards

3rd Quarter

Hit +3 yards after LOS for +4 yards

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +4 yards

4th Quarter

Hit +1 yards after LOS for +3 yards

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +10 yards

Hit at LOS for +2 yards

Hit +2 yards after LOS for +3 yards

Hit -2 yards before LOS for +3 yards

Hit +1 yards after LOS for +1 yards

Hit at LOS for +2 yards

Hit at LOS for +19 yards

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: 4 rushes for -5 yards --> -1.25 YPC

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 12 rushes for +65 yards --> +5.42 YPC

________________________________________________

When hit behind line of scrimmage: Ballard picked up an extra +1.25 yards after contact

When hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: Brown picked up an extra +3.8 yards after contact

________________________________________________

Ballard hit behind the LOS 25% of the time for the game

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