Could Zach Banner become a legit starting RT?

[BlueShoe]

It is becoming clearer by the day that Banner is our most talented RT. After two games of tape, Banner looks like a man playing with boys in the second units. He has a lot to learn, and the coaches might need to hold him back until he gains the experience. 

 

Its obvious they're already experimenting with the starting RT spot. Vujnovich started, and Clark did not see action until the third drive. If Pagano keeps making comments about Clark (post game press conference) then Banner could be thrown in the fire sooner than later. 

 

I think we should all be ready for big #72 to get an opportunity, because he is knocking on the door.

 

I am really impressed with Banner's timing on his first step. He is kicking out at the same time the ball is being snapped. It is approaching Tarik Glenn territory. Go back and look at the tape. I am not sure how he is even doing it. Just like Glenn, Banner will probably be unfairly called for some false starts in his career.

 

Another very noticeable topic from watching the Dallas game is that Banner tends to do a much better job without a tight end lined up next to him. I think that also shows his lack of experience. He does a better job when things are less complex which is typical for a rookie. When he smashes inside, he appears to be expecting the tight end to cover outside. However, the tight end might run a route leaving the defender unblocked. We see some mental pass protection breakdowns, and would have to know the assignments to know who is responsible. 

 

Also, when defenders are lining up in 7 and 9 techniques then it becomes a little more challenging for Banner to get his big body out there, and it's very difficult for him to recover from double moves. He might struggle (at this point in his career) against some quick-twitched athletes, especially if they're lined up outside the tackle.

 

Banner played RT the entire second half, and improved as the game moved along. It could be that he just got more comfortable or it could be a drop in the level of competition. Maybe it was a little of both. Whatever it was, when Morris took over under center, that is when Banner started to do everything right. He dominated the opposition in the last 8 minutes of the game.

[TKnight24]

 

 

 

[#12.]

During the offseason, O-line seemed to be no concern to anyone.  Now, after one preseason game, we're already benching people.

 

Might as well give Banner a shot.

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, #12. said:

During the offseason, O-line seemed to be no concern to anyone.  Now, after one preseason game, we're already benching people.

 

Might as well give Banner a shot.

 

That is how quickly things can turn when our best offensive lineman goes down for a couple/few months.

 

When our starters are all healthy then we definitely have a promising offensive line. Not much depth behind them though. 

 

Banner looks like the real deal to me.

[NannyMcafee]

Again the oline is proving to be unreliable in one way or another. Some of us have been calling this since the end to last season. I love Malik Hooker, but the fact that we barely even addressed the oline in the off season really gets at me. 

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

That is how quickly things can turn when our best offensive lineman goes down for a couple/few months.

 

When our starters are all healthy then we definitely have a promising offensive line. Not much depth behind them though. 

 

Banner looks like the real deal to me.

 

I need to watch him again, but is it safe to say he's only played against 2nd or 3rd teamers?  The knock against him is that if he doesn't get a hand on you, they run right around him.

 

I wish they had the All 22 during preseason, the TV coverage for that game was obviously Dallas-centric.  I don't even remember them even announcing our starting lineups?   

 

If if I can stomach it, I'll try to watch it again and pay attention to him.

[Coltsfan0112]

I will be disappointed if Clark doesn't win the RT spot. He has all the tools to be a great tackle in this league. 

[BlueShoe]

At the start of the second half Clark moved to LT and Banner was brought in at RT. 

 

On the second play of the opening second half drive, Clark gets a holding call negating an 11 yard screen to Mack. Clark was holding his man by the face mask. You could clearly see Pagano drop the ^^^ on the sidelines. I believe it is the same play Pagano referred to in the post game press conference. 

[Coffeedrinker]

6 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I need to watch him again, but is it safe to say he's only played against 2nd or 3rd teamers?  The knock against him is that if he doesn't get a hand on you, they run right around him.

 

I wish they had the All 22 during preseason, the TV coverage for that game was obviously Dallas-centric.  I don't even remember them even announcing our starting lineups?   

 

If if I can stomach it, I'll try to watch it again and pay attention to him.

I can save you the trouble.  Banner is not bad but he does not move well at all when he needs to move his feet he pretty much stands straight up.  When he goes against a guy who can do a double move he will be toast every time because he has no leverage on the move.  On the flip side, like Krunk said last week, when he locks onto a defender that defender does not do much after that.

 

Clark has no functional strength but his pass blocking is pretty good, he moves well.  I don't think Vuj did any better.

 

To stay with the theme of oline, I just want to say Bond did another outstanding job at center.  He got overwhelmed on one play but I watched that over and over again (the draw play where Turbin got hit as soon as he got the ball) and that was a poorly designed blocking scheme so I don't blame him totally for that.  But Bond is a player, his run blocking and pass blocking are both in the good category already.

[RockThatBlue]

I wanna see him against 1s. He looks good against mostly back ups.

[Fisticuffs111]

I was never really sold on Clark or his potential.

Not that he can't still get it together, and he's not terrible even where he's at now, I just think he's going to be really inconsistent for a while. I think he got a little too hyped up here during the offseason, kind of like Good did the year before.

When our line's healthy we can deal with one below average starter. But take one of our key guys out, Kelly, Mewhort, or Castonzo, then they're gonna be bad.

[BlueShoe]

27 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I can save you the trouble.  Banner is not bad but he does not move well at all when he needs to move his feet he pretty much stands straight up.  When he goes against a guy who can do a double move he will be toast every time because he has no leverage on the move.  On the flip side, like Krunk said last week, when he locks onto a defender that defender does not do much after that.

 

I think there are two things going on with Banner's pass blocking. 

 

He is a huge man who weighs in at 358 pounds. That is a lot of weight to move. However, he is very quick for a man that size. He also does not appear to have the instincts to adjust on double moves.

 

His first step is quick enough now, but it is not quick enough to overcome quick-twitched defenders. He will need to improve on matching the first step and second step of the defender. He can either trim down or become more instinctive.

 

Hopefully with reps, he can become more instinctive against the double moves.

 

I agree with Krunk. Once he gets his hands on the defender then it is over. 

[Dark Superman]

Still wishing the Colts pursued and signed Kevin Zeitler last March.

The offensive line is still a mess.. did Ballard really feel comfortable heading into a season with a bunch of unproven guys who were drafted by Grigson? Lol.

[WoolMagnet]

52 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

Again the oline is proving to be unreliable in one way or another. Some of us have been calling this since the end to last season. I love Malik Hooker, but the fact that we barely even addressed the oline in the off season really gets at me. 

I sort of agree, but with the line playing fairly well at the end of last season, along with expected growth from these young guys, i think DEFENSE was a more glaring offense.  During the draft, i sa far more "draft all defense" threads than i did draft OL threads/opinions.

lets not forget mewhort is coming off injury, haeg was down recently, kelly isnt in there, swenke hasnt been in lineup, and our 2 guards switched spots. With kelly out, i thought they might flip haeg n mewhort back, at least temporarily.

 

 

[Smitto]

They need to stop shifting the Oline personnel around... I'm pretty sure they know this yet it still baffles me why they keep doing it. Was Irsay not the one who said the line was fixed? 

 

Clark did a good job last season, so why bother moving him around disrupting any cohesion he had with the guys next to him?

[BlueShoe]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-scouting-report-zach-banner-t-usc

 

For what it is worth, here is PFF's draft profile on Banner. 

 

In my mind, they got it wrong about him, or it could be that losing the weight since college has made his strengths and weaknesses change quite a bit. 

 

We need to remember at one time he was upwards of 400 pounds. 

[jchandler7]

32 minutes ago, Smitto said:

They need to stop shifting the Oline personnel around... I'm pretty sure they know this yet it still baffles me why they keep doing it. Was Irsay not the one who said the line was fixed? 

 

Clark did a good job last season, so why bother moving him around disrupting any cohesion he had with the guys next to him?

I'd like to see what Banner can do with the ones. However, i have to agree with you that they need to figure it out quick and stick to their guns. How are they suppose to learn/grow and build chemistry if the coaches are going to keep switching them around.

[BlueShoe]

50 minutes ago, Smitto said:

They need to stop shifting the Oline personnel around... I'm pretty sure they know this yet it still baffles me why they keep doing it. Was Irsay not the one who said the line was fixed? 

 

Clark did a good job last season, so why bother moving him around disrupting any cohesion he had with the guys next to him?

 

I am fine with swapping Mewhort and Haeg. It makes sense, because Haeg is more athletic whereas Mewhort is more of the mauler type. Typically the more athletic offensive lineman will line up on the left side, while the maulers will be on the right. Mewhort was also not very good at pulling. 

 

None of us expected Kelly to go down, and that's a huge blow to the offensive line. Maybe the coaches panicked a bit. I don't think they did though.

 

Whatever the reason, Clark seems to be in Pagano's dog house. I am not sure if sitting him out the first two drives was punishment or intended to send a message that his position is not a lock. Either way, the penalty on Clark in the second half set Pagano over the edge. He was clearly cussing up and down the sideline at Clark after that play, and he also let his emotions show in the post game press conference. 

[Smitto]

13 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I am fine with swapping Mewhort and Haeg. It makes sense, because Haeg is more athletic whereas Mewhort is more of the mauler type. Typically the more athletic offensive lineman will line up on the left side, while the maulers will be on the right. Mewhort was also not very good at pulling. 

 

None of us expected Kelly to go down, and that's a huge blow to the offensive line. Maybe the coaches panicked a bit. I don't think they did though.

 

Whatever the reason, Clark seems to be in Pagano's dog house. I am not sure if sitting him out the first two drives was punishment or intended to send a message that his position is not a lock. Either way, the penalty on Clark in the second half set Pagano over the edge. He was clearly cussing up and down the sideline at Clark after that play, and he also let his emotions show in the post game press conference. 

Yea I can understand the moves with the two Guards but with Clark? And then sending him to the RT spot after they've been playing him at LT... Just seems like the coaching staff is doing a bit too much of experimenting. Then again maybe this will light a fire under him as well and help him get better... The line needs continuity than anything. 

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, Smitto said:

Yea I can understand the moves with the two Guards but with Clark? And then sending him to the RT spot after they've been playing him at LT... Just seems like the coaching staff is doing a bit too much of experimenting. Then again maybe this will light a fire under him as well and help him get better... The line needs continuity than anything. 

 

Clark entered the offseason as our starting RT. He moves to LT with the second unit. On paper that is an excellent place to be, because it shows how much the coaching staff believed in him.

 

I am not sure what has happened between Clark and Pagano. Maybe it was a bunch of small things that added up or maybe it was one big thing. Whatever the case, Pagano is starting to focus on every negative thing Clark does, and that is not a good place for any player to be. 

[Boiler_Colt]

1 hour ago, Colt-King 24 said:

Still wishing the Colts pursued and signed Kevin Zeitler last March.

The offensive line is still a mess.. did Ballard really feel comfortable heading into a season with a bunch of unproven guys who were drafted by Grigson? Lol.

Well they did pursue him. They just either got outbid or he flat out liked Cleveland better, we'll never know. However,  when everyone was healthy I still think RT was the biggest weakness. Now if Zeitler was signed maybe Haeg would play RT but that is too much hindsight now.

[Smitto]

5 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Clark entered the offseason as our starting RT. He moves to LT with the second unit. On paper that is an excellent place to be, because it shows how much the coaching staff believed in him.

 

I am not sure what has happened between Clark and Pagano. Maybe it was a bunch of small things that added up or maybe it was one big thing. Whatever the case, Pagano is starting to focus on every negative thing Clark does, and that is not a good place for any player to be. 

Hopefully we're reading too much into this, but Pagano's attitude definitely seems like it's changed ever since the firing of Grigson. 

[BProland85]

What's been going on with Clark? I haven't been able to watch the games. He seemed very promising late last season. 

[Coffeedrinker]

4 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

What's been going on with Clark? I haven't been able to watch the games. He seemed very promising late last season. 

He looked pretty good last week at RT in pass blocking.  His run blocking has no power to it and he makes a lot of stupid penalties.

[COLTS449]

Reminding everyone we could have had Cody Whitehair in RD2. Whitehair was an absolute stud as a rookie last year. Maybe better than Kelly. The trick is. He can be a top tier G or C. We were stupid for not taking the best G in the class in RD2 when we had a joke of an OL the previous 4 years. TJ Green better have a Landon Collins type 2nd year as a SS or he better turn into a promising young corner who has a really great season opposite Vontae.

[BlueShoe]

8 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

Reminding everyone we could have had Cody Whitehair in RD2. Whitehair was an absolute stud as a rookie last year. Maybe better than Kelly. The trick is. He can be a top tier G or C. We were stupid for not taking the best G in the class in RD2 when we had a joke of an OL the previous 4 years. TJ Green better have a Landon Collins type 2nd year as a SS or he better turn into a promising young corner who has a really great season opposite Vontae.

 

I would take Kelly over Whitehair, but I would definitely take Whitehair over Green. In fact, I actually mocked both Kelly and Whitehair to us a few times. 

[COLTS449]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I would take Kelly over Whitehair, but I would definitely take Whitehair over Green. In fact, I actually mocked both Kelly and Whitehair to us a few times. 

 

Between the 2 I would take Kelly as well, I agree 100%, and lol. Yeah. I mocked them to us 1 and 2 a couple time too that year.

 

 

[will426]

With the way we got ran on by the cowboys I'm so torn..like seriously do we go all out on the Dline in the draft or all out on the Oline or just get linemen period and ignore everything else? Sooo hard to choose 

[rockywoj]

I too was advocating Kelly in the 1st, then Whitehair in the 2nd.  After the trade back, my fingers were crossed that Whitehair would still be there.  If memory serves, he went just a pick or two or three before us.  Man, I SO wanted to solve the interior OL by selecting both C Kelly & OG Whitehair.   Looking retrospectively, it's even sadder, imho, that Grigson didn't do this.  And just think, still could have gotten Clark as the RT prospect, and Haeg as OG depth to boot. 

 

Oh yeah, and the year before I was HEAVILY hoping and praying they'd go S Landon Collins, but instead,Grigson did the unthinkable taking WR Dorset.  

 

Just dumb, dumb, dumb ... and now Grigson is rightfully gone.  So frustrating when we mere fans can get it more right than the paid inside professionals.

 

[krunk]

6 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I can save you the trouble.  Banner is not bad but he does not move well at all when he needs to move his feet he pretty much stands straight up.  When he goes against a guy who can do a double move he will be toast every time because he has no leverage on the move.  On the flip side, like Krunk said last week, when he locks onto a defender that defender does not do much after that.

 

Clark has no functional strength but his pass blocking is pretty good, he moves well.  I don't think Vuj did any better.

 

To stay with the theme of oline, I just want to say Bond did another outstanding job at center.  He got overwhelmed on one play but I watched that over and over again (the draw play where Turbin got hit as soon as he got the ball) and that was a poorly designed blocking scheme so I don't blame him totally for that.  But Bond is a player, his run blocking and pass blocking are both in the good category already.

Yes Bond is actually a pretty good little player it seems.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

9 minutes ago, krunk said:

Yes Bond is actually a pretty good little player it seems.

I agree Bond has looked good, my question then is why wasn't he drafted??

[krunk]

Redmond I did not like. Botched snaps and a butt fumble.

[AustexColt]

If we thought we had an answer for the OL.... think again. AC, Mewhort would not make it on the Cowboys OL. So what does that leave the rest of them?  AC and Mewhort are overrated. I could not believe how Taco Charlton ran right by AC to sack Tolzien in  the 1H. Even Marinelli was laughing at the Colts OL. 

 

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

I had high hopes for LeRaven. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, AustexColt said:

If we thought we had an answer for the OL.... think again. AC, Mewhort would not make it on the Cowboys OL. So what does that leave the rest of them?  AC and Mewhort are overrated. I could not believe how Taco Charlton ran right by AC to sack Tolzien in  the 1H. Even Marinelli was laughing at the Colts OL. 

 

 

It seemed like the TE did more harm than good for Castanzo. 

[krunk]

19 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I agree Bond has looked good, my question then is why wasn't he drafted??

I dont really search for that answer. The draft used to be 12 to 20 rounds long. Once it was shaved down to 7 rounds you have to figure some guys who are draftable would go undrafted.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

I dont really search for that answer. The draft used to be 12 to 20 rounds long. Once it was shaved down to 7 rounds you have to figure some guys who are draftable would go undrafted.

And sometime drafted guys shouldn't be, was just wondering what the negatives of his scouting report was?

[BlueShoe]

2 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

And sometime drafted guys shouldn't be, was just wondering what the negatives of his scouting report was?

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/deyshawn-bond?id=2557968

 

His size hurt him the most. 6'2" 287 is small in today's NFL. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

6 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/deyshawn-bond?id=2557968

 

His size hurt him the most. 6'2" 287 is small in today's NFL. 

Thanks he is smaller than he looks, Saturday wan't a big guy either. Teams get more scared of small centers, becuase of the size of these nose tackles now.

[krunk]

Between Bond and Schwenke we might be alright. Maybe.