Why would an owner entrust Luck's Prime to Chuck Pagano

[JPFolks]

6 hours ago, BOTT said:

Barney Rubble HC

 

Fred Flintstone GM

Yeah, thought so.  

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, gacoop1 said:

 

[Iancolts]

The more I think about Luck the more I have to agree.  He will more then likely be an elite QB someday but not this year.  I think lucks contract will hold him back.  He doesn't have that Nak just yet to carry a team and that contract will catch up to he team.  The colts FO won't be able to find help for him because of salary cap issues.  So Luck almost has to be that guy the QB that no matter how bad your Oline is or how bad your defense is you still have to somehow win! 

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Yeah, thought so.  

It's because you like to argue waaaay too much.  Whomever I say you will never agree with so what's the point?  Unless you desire to put people to sleep.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, Iancolts said:

The more I think about Luck the more I have to agree.  He will more then likely be an elite QB someday but not this year.  I think lucks contract will hold him back.  He doesn't have that Nak just yet to carry a team and that contract will catch up to he team.  The colts FO won't be able to find help for him because of salary cap issues.  So Luck almost has to be that guy the QB that no matter how bad your Oline is or how bad your defense is you still have to somehow win! 

 

He doesn't have the nak yet to carry a team?      Seriously?

 

Were you not a fan of the Colts in 2012,  2013 and 2014?       Who do you think is responsible for three straight seasons of 11-5?      Who do you think took the team one game further in the playoffs every year?

 

Can't carry a team?

 

Good God!        

[JustAColtsFan]

21 hours ago, YourNextGM said:

I'd start with the coach and gm.  Maybe if the culture changed,  we'd be more durable.  

Oh, I get it.  The coach and GM are out hitting the players in the ankles and knees with a baseball bat!  Makes sense to me now ;)

[JPFolks]

10 hours ago, BOTT said:

It's because you like to argue waaaay too much.  Whomever I say you will never agree with so what's the point?  Unless you desire to put people to sleep.

If you make indefensible comments and prove it by not defending it with anything resembling an argument, point or fact, then it discredits your original comment.  I am fine with accepting you're wrong with it.  Apparently so are you since all these supposed better options don't really exist.  If you can't suggest any names, you have no basis to complain that better guys were readily available to take the place of our staff.  The only thing you have left is a personal attack because you can't argue the issue that you raised in the first place.  And apparently you're not too asleep to read my posts and respond.  You know you aren't required to do so, so you must be interested so you lost that argumentative insult via your actions as well.  

[Jason_]

On 8/27/2016 at 8:24 PM, YourNextGM said:

It's going to be a long yr brothers and sisters.  

 

Irsay has a Twitter account. So why don't you ask him?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

32 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

If you make indefensible comments and prove it by not defending it with anything resembling an argument, point or fact, then it discredits your original comment.  I am fine with accepting you're wrong with it.  Apparently so are you since all these supposed better options don't really exist.  If you can't suggest any names, you have no basis to complain that better guys were readily available to take the place of our staff.  The only thing you have left is a personal attack because you can't argue the issue that you raised in the first place.  And apparently you're not too asleep to read my posts and respond.  You know you aren't required to do so, so you must be interested so you lost that argumentative insult via your actions as well.  

 

Thank You 

 

[crazycolt1]

11 hours ago, Iancolts said:

The more I think about Luck the more I have to agree.  He will more then likely be an elite QB someday but not this year.  I think lucks contract will hold him back.  He doesn't have that Nak just yet to carry a team and that contract will catch up to he team.  The colts FO won't be able to find help for him because of salary cap issues.  So Luck almost has to be that guy the QB that no matter how bad your Oline is or how bad your defense is you still have to somehow win! 

How long have you been in hibernation?

[gacker65]

On 8/27/2016 at 9:13 PM, YourNextGM said:

I still don't get why we used a 1st rnder on Phillip Dorsett. 

Because that gives us 3 WRs that run sub 4.4 40s.  Also gives us a 3rd WR that can't get open under 20 yrds.  More 3 and outs.

[James Ducheteau]

On 8/27/2016 at 10:29 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Mewhort injury is bad news and that stinks but in 2 weeks once the Regular Season starts nobody will even remember this game or care about it.

I think more than a few people remember this game from last year and how that turned out..

[#12.]

15 hours ago, Iancolts said:

The more I think about Luck the more I have to agree.  He will more then likely be an elite QB someday but not this year.  I think lucks contract will hold him back.  He doesn't have that Nak just yet to carry a team and that contract will catch up to he team.  The colts FO won't be able to find help for him because of salary cap issues.  So Luck almost has to be that guy the QB that no matter how bad your Oline is or how bad your defense is you still have to somehow win! 

 

Let's take Peyton in his late 20's.  Do you honestly believe Peyton would have won with this team?  You take away Marvin, Reggie, Edge, Clark...  You take away Stokley, Gonzalez and every possession receiver he ever had(Grigson doesn't believe in possession receivers)...  You take away Freeney, Mathis and any pass rush whatsoever...  You put him behind this O-line...

 

Peyton never played on a dominant team, but at least it was set up in a way where you could play that style.  You could sling it for 4 quarters, then set your pass rushers, Freeney and Mathis loose.  This team is inferior in practically every way to those teams - at possibly every position on offense, with no pass rush whatsoever.

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

On 8/27/2016 at 8:24 PM, YourNextGM said:

It's going to be a long yr brothers and sisters.  

You got that right.  Same problems with some new names.  

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, gacker65 said:

Because that gives us 3 WRs that run sub 4.4 40s.  Also gives us a 3rd WR that can't get open under 20 yrds.  More 3 and outs.

 

huh?  you have no clue what you're talking about if you don't think that Hilton, Moncrief and Dorsett can get open under 20 yards.  That has to be up there in the top worst complaints about the team so far this preseason. lol

[Jason_]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Who do you think is responsible for three straight seasons of 11-5?      Who do you think took the team one game further in the playoffs every year?
 

 

A lot more people than just Andrew Luck. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

A lot more people than just Andrew Luck. 

Not much more. Reggie was playing injured in 2013 and 2014, TY was Good, so was Vontae and Mathis on Defense (Mathis in 2013), and we had Great SPteams with Pat and Adam. Having said that we had no run game in 2013 or 2014 during our Playoff runs and our O.Line was Below Average to Average. Luck covered up a lot of weaknesses we had. His Turnovers are due too him trying to do to much/forcing things because he knows he has to do a lot for our team to win.

[Jason_]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not much more. Reggie was playing injured in 2013 and 2014, TY was Good, so was Vontae and Mathis on Defense (Mathis in 2013), and we had Great SPteams with Pat and Adam. Having said that we had no run game in 2013 or 2014 during our Playoff runs and our O.Line was Below Average to Average. Luck covered up a lot of weaknesses we had. His Turnovers are due too him trying to do to much/forcing things because he knows he has to do a lot for our team to win.

 

agree to disagree, especially on the last sentence

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

agree to disagree, especially on the last sentence

That's cool I respect your opinions but what would you disagree with:

*We had no run game in 2013 or 2014 (Not 1 game with a 100 Yard rusher) Agree or Disagree?

 

*Our O.Line was Average at best in 2013 and 2014, Agree or Disagree?

 

*Reggie was lost in 2013 and played injured in 2014, Agree or Disagree?

 

*Outside of Luck TY, Vontae, Mathis, Pat, and Adam would any other team consider any other player on those 2013 and 2014 Rosters to be Very Good, not Good but Very Good - Mathis was Great in 2013 and Pat was Great both 2013/2014? Those are really the only Very Good players we had. We didn't even have Mathis in 2014 and still made the Championship Game. Agree or Disagree?

 

*In order to win, Luck had to press the issue so at times he turned the ball over. Agree or Disagree? I am not sure what you are disagreeing with any of this?

[King Colt]

Preseason game three with the starting OL Luck gets sacked three times in the first quarter. So that is averaging 12 sacks per game times 16 games equals 192 sacks per game. Yep, it could be a long season.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

A lot more people than just Andrew Luck. 

 

Well....   yeah.....   it is, after all,  football,  and you need 11 players......

 

But the number one player responsible was......     Andrew Luck.

 

Is this even in dispute......     I mean,  except for the poster who I was responding to, who literally said Luck wasn't ready to carry a team yet?!?!?

 

You're not telling me you agree with him,  are you?

 

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Preseason game three with the starting OL Luck gets sacked three times in the first quarter. So that is averaging 12 sacks per game times 16 games equals 192 sacks per game. Yep, it could be a long season.

Math never lies.

[Jason_]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   yeah.....   it is, after all,  football,  and you need 11 players......

 

But the number one player responsible was......     Andrew Luck.

 

Is this even in dispute......     I mean,  except for the poster who I was responding to, who literally said Luck wasn't ready to carry a team yet?!?!?

 

You're not telling me you agree with him,  are you?

 

 

 

 

Depends on what exactly you mean by "carry a team". Luck is absolutely ready to lead a team, but no, I don't believe he can consistently carry a team ala a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.  That's also not meant to be a knock or criticism of Luck...there aren't many guys who can carry a team like Manning/Brady.

[Dudley Smith]

3 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

Depends on what exactly you mean by "carry a team". Luck is absolutely ready to lead a team, but no, I don't believe he can consistently carry a team ala a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.  That's also not meant to be a knock or criticism of Luck...there aren't many guys who can carry a team like Manning/Brady.

 

I agree Luck is not Manning/Brady. I think a lot of fans want Luck to be Manning 2.0 but he is more like Favre 2.0. Which I am completely fine with because I love Luck's game. I believe he is one of the top 5 QBs in the game currently, and don't believe if you had replaced him with someone like Joe Flacco that the Colts would have had 3 straight 11-5 seasons.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is I think I am somewhere in the middle -- I think Luck is good enough to carry the team, just not on a consistent basis due to his gunslinger attitude (although maybe this will change this year as so far he seems fine with a dink and dunk mentality in limited pre-season action).

[Jason_]

On 8/27/2016 at 8:24 PM, YourNextGM said:

It's going to be a long yr brothers and sisters.  

 

You know what, next time you ask yourself that question (thread title) just remember their first choice was to keep jim caldwell. ;)

[jbaron04]

On 8/27/2016 at 10:03 PM, deedub75 said:

 

So we just put Luck out there to get killed?  We have been dealt a very poor hand.  

No we didn't put him out there to be killed but we was out played,  but what I'm saying is that it's preseason we will be better 

[deedub75]

19 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

No we didn't put him out there to be killed but we was out played,  but what I'm saying is that it's preseason we will be better 

 

No.  Chuck was afraid he'd get hurt because the o line couldn't block.  Chuck also place an emphasis on playing well this preseason to avoid a slow start in the regular season.  

[BOTT]

On August 29, 2016 at 6:42 AM, gacker65 said:

Because that gives us 3 WRs that run sub 4.4 40s.  Also gives us a 3rd WR that can't get open under 20 yrds.  More 3 and outs.

You don't pass on true blue speed /s

[jbaron04]

1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

 

No.  Chuck was afraid he'd get hurt because the o line couldn't block.  Chuck also place an emphasis on playing well this preseason to avoid a slow start in the regular season.  

We saying the same thing, same

[gacker65]

On 8/27/2016 at 9:13 PM, YourNextGM said:

I still don't get why we used a 1st rnder on Phillip Dorsett. 

Because that gives us 3 WRs that run sub 4.4 40s.  Also gives us a 3rd WR that can't get open under 20 yrds.  More 3 and outs.

[gacker65]

On 8/29/2016 at 9:53 AM, Jason_S said:

 

huh?  you have no clue what you're talking about if you don't think that Hilton, Moncrief and Dorsett can get open under 20 yards.  That has to be up there in the top worst complaints about the team so far this preseason. lol

Really?????  I saw quite a lot of the WRs not getting open under 20 yards.  Reason Luck got hurt was because had to run because WRs couldn't get open.

 

Just because a WR runs a sub 4.4 doesn't mean he can get open underneath.  Precise routes gets a WR open underneath.

[WarGhost21]

4 minutes ago, gacker65 said:

Really?????  I saw quite a lot of the WRs not getting open under 20 yards.  Reason Luck got hurt was because had to run because WRs couldn't get open.

 

Just because a WR runs a sub 4.4 doesn't mean he can get open underneath.  Precise routes gets a WR open underneath.

How long have you been watching the Colts? Last year when Luck went down we had to use short routes due to Hasselbeck's arm not being nearly as powerful as Luck. If I remember correctly, the three got open quite a bit, moving the chains better than we did on the deep ball with Luck in.

[gacker65]

13 hours ago, BOTT said:

You don't pass on true blue speed /s

Some times you do to get a good route runner.  Ask old Raider fans about always getting speed WRs and what it gets you.

 

The reason that I continue to say we need precise routes is, that most CBs are as fast as most WRs in the first 15 to 20 yards.

[gacker65]

4 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

How long have you been watching the Colts? Last year when Luck went down we had to use short routes due to Hasselbeck's arm not being nearly as powerful as Luck. If I remember correctly, the three got open quite a bit, moving the chains better than we did on the deep ball with Luck in.

Why throw 20 plus on 3rd and 3???????  I have watched a lot of Colts games.  I also watched a lot of Luck's college games.  A lot of the same things.  

 

No, Donta got open more than TY or Dorsett underneath.  What everyone seems to forget is, that most CBs are as fast as the fastest WRs in the first 15 to 20 yards.  As I have said about TY since day 1, he needed to run precise routes and quit relying on his speed underneath.  Precise route gets a WR open under 20 yards more than speed.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 1:43 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

He doesn't have the nak yet to carry a team?      Seriously?

 

Were you not a fan of the Colts in 2012,  2013 and 2014?       Who do you think is responsible for three straight seasons of 11-5?      Who do you think took the team one game further in the playoffs every year?

 

Can't carry a team?

 

Good God!        

I know Luck was Good in 2012, Good in 2013, Very Good/borderline Great in 2014, Injured for 9 games last season so I give him an incomplete grade for 2015. Without him in 2012, 2013, and 2014 we would've been lucky to be 8-8 as he easily made a 3 or 4 game difference in those years and definitely we would've never sniffed a Championship Game in 2014.

[lollygagger8]

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, gacker65 said:

Really?????  I saw quite a lot of the WRs not getting open under 20 yards.  Reason Luck got hurt was because had to run because WRs couldn't get open.

 

Just because a WR runs a sub 4.4 doesn't mean he can get open underneath.  Precise routes gets a WR open underneath.

 

I think what you're referring to is far more a product of the playcalling.  As warghost said, the playcalling changed once Luck went down and Hass took over and they had to rely on the short passing game.  Also, all 3 have been doing very well getting open so far in the preseason on short routes.  So no, I don't think it has anything to do with the abilities of the WRs we have but rather the inept offensive philosophy that Pep was running.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

I think what you're referring to is far more a product of the playcalling.  As warghost said, the playcalling changed once Luck went down and Hass took over and they had to rely on the short passing game.  Also, all 3 have been doing very well getting open so far in the preseason on short routes.  So no, I don't think it has anything to do with the abilities of the WRs we have but rather the inept offensive philosophy that Pep was running.

 

I think our receivers are going to be fine.

 

Now we have the right OC,  the right OL coach, and the right QB coach.

 

I'm not guaranteeing 16 great offensive games,   but I think we're going to have a much improved offense.

 

The way to help the line is to have Luck get the ball out of his hand quicker and into the hands of his receivers.

 

That's what I'm hoping for.       Frankly,   that's what I'm expecting.

[Jason_]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think our receivers are going to be fine.

 

Now we have the right OC,  the right OL coach, and the right QB coach.

 

I'm not guaranteeing 16 great offensive games,   but I think we're going to have a much improved offense.

 

The way to help the line is to have Luck get the ball out of his hand quicker and into the hands of his receivers.

 

That's what I'm hoping for.       Frankly,   that's what I'm expecting.

 

ditto to all of that

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, gacker65 said:

Some times you do to get a good route runner.  Ask old Raider fans about always getting speed WRs and what it gets you.

 

The reason that I continue to say we need precise routes is, that most CBs are as fast as most WRs in the first 15 to 20 yards.

I was being sarcastic with a Grigson quote.  I thought it was a horrible pick, even though I think he will be a good player.