What will it take for luck to be better than Manning?

[kansascolt]

I know this topic has been done to the point of ad nauseum, but I can't resist asking this question and getting other colts fans thoughts. In my opinion, there is only one way for Luck to be remotely considered a better Q.B. than Manning and that is to win more super bowls. I don't think he'll ever match Peyton's stats, but personally, thats something I can live with, so long as Luck can bring us more than one Super Bowl. Thoughts?

[21isSuperman]

It's almost impossible to say. It's not possible to objectively judge players who play on different teams with different coaches and different systems. My point of view is just to let Luck be Luck; I won't be comparing him to Peyton and expecting him to do Peyton-esque things. Let him be himself and reach his potential instead of constantly pressuring him with comparisons to Peyton

[Mameluc]

a better D

[TonyBungee]

A miracle. IMO, that's just not going to happen. PM will go down as one of the top 3 or 4 QBs in NFL history. If AL can establish himself as one of the top 3 or 4 of his era, I'll be absolutely thrilled.

[Fx Stryker]

A HoF career. Luck can be on a better Colts team, but he can't do much to top PM's career.

[Kyle]

I know this topic has been done to the point of ad nauseum, but I can't resist asking this question and getting other colts fans thoughts. In my opinion, there is only one way for Luck to be remotely considered a better Q.B. than Manning and that is to win more super bowls. I don't think he'll ever match Peyton's stats, but personally, thats something I can live with, so long as Luck can bring us more than one Super Bowl. Thoughts?

What does it take to be, #1

2 is not a winner, and 3 nobody remembers.

Sorry, the OP made me think of that Nelly song.

[The Fish]

2 SB win's

[FireJimCaldwell]

It will depend on how one looks at it.

In my opinion there are 3 ways people view things like this.

Rings, Stats and Eyes.

Rings

If a team is built and he wins his 2nd ring(since it seems like he already has one, or does he already have 2 at this point), either way, if a complete team is built and he wins more rings than Manning did here, some will say that he is better. I find that blanket statement a bit foolish.

Stats

Some will say if he throws 400 td's as a Colt, he will be better.

Some will say if he wins 142 games, throws for 54,829, he will be better.

Eyes

Will he make the how did he do that throws? Will he play the position better than anyone before him? I doubt he will be asked to carry the team like Manning, he better not. I don't see him completing that task.

In the end, a better team should be easy to be built. A quarterback that plays an equal number of years or the given 20 that Luck will play he should easily surpass those #'s. If an 18 game schedule is added to the equation then the previous historic #'s will fall even quicker.

It will all come down to the individual. Heck to some they are already equals and he hasn't thrown his first pass. Of course there isn't much to be said for that.

He has his work cut out for him.

[Michael Lebron]

A topic worth discussing..... It's a rather simple answer in my opinion.

We all love Peyton the person and football player!!!!!! As much as we love what he has done for the franchise; Could we argue that there was more he could have done?

For as many comeback wins he has produced; there are just as many playoff collapses. As die hard Manning/Colts fans, we tend to avoid these discussions. I am the first to say that Manning deserves the honor and respect given to him, but he is just as replaceable as Montana and Farve were. Hence the reason, I got over him leaving quickly and purchased my Luck jersey.

As for Luck, he does not need to better than him stat wise. All Luck has to do is have more playoff success, which I don't think will be that difficult with the new regime. Secondly win multiple Superbowls! We are a loyal but emotional fan base. With that being said, if Luck has a great rookie season, the Manning discussions will cease!

[mark5362]

Records and stats are made to be broke. Cam broke Peyton's rookie stats last year.As the saying goes,there is always someone bigger and better coming along.will that be Andrew? IDK. As long as Andrew gets more SB wins,Peyton can have the records.After all,Peyton's records are COLT'S records as well. I'm not sure i wan't to see them go to fast.

[Orlando Fan]

Manning's career isn't finished yet. In the beginning Luck's career will be compared to Manning's, but Peyton's body of work could potentially include another ring and/or MVP. At this point I would like for him to be better than RGIII.

[Oh Andrew]

Andrew already is. He's the Colts starting quarterback.

[Nobody]

He won't be a better QB than Peyton. Peyton is the GOAT. So, Luck would have to become the new GOAT, unlikely to say the least. To adequately replace Manning, 2 SB wins. Stats and MVPs are great, but the media really only cares about SBs (hence Tom Brady being such a media darling despite being on a much better team than Peyton was for most of their careers).

[oldunclemark]

It's almost impossible to say. It's not possible to objectively judge players who play on different teams with different coaches and different systems. My point of view is just to let Luck be Luck; I won't be comparing him to Peyton and expecting him to do Peyton-esque things. Let him be himself and reach his potential instead of constantly pressuring him with comparisons to Peyton

I guess this is what I was trying to say the other day...

Its only fair to compare Luck to Manning for so long.

Peyton was never compared to Johnny Unitas....or Bert Jones...was he?

Eli will be compared to Peyton forever..but they're family.

You cant compare 2012 with 1998.....two different slices of time

Hey, I want Denver to go 16-0 this season (because they dont play the Colts) but I'm hoping the Peyton-Luck comparisons go away after this season because... because its like comparing LeBron to Michael Jordan ... different times.

[oldunclemark]

He won't be a better QB than Peyton. Peyton is the GOAT. So, Luck would have to become the new GOAT, unlikely to say the least. To adequately replace Manning, 2 SB wins. Stats and MVPs are great, but the media really only cares about SBs (hence Tom Brady being such a media darling despite being on a much better team than Peyton was for most of their careers).

But 'body....................Isnt Johnny Unitas the greatest of ALL time???

[21isSuperman]

I guess this is what I was trying to say the other day...

Its only fair to compare Luck to Manning for so long.

Peyton was never compared to Johnny Unitas....or Bert Jones...was he?

Eli will be compared to Peyton forever..but they're family.

You cant compare 2012 with 1998.....two different slices of time

Hey, I want Denver to go 16-0 this season (because they dont play the Colts) but I'm hoping the Peyton-Luck comparisons go away after this season because... because its like comparing LeBron to Michael Jordan ... different times.

Exactly. To me, it's not realistic to compare Peyton to Brady. Different coaches, different systems, different WRs, different O-linemen, different defenses, different practice/training camp routines, different abilities...too many variables.

[chad72]

Luck needs to play about 12 healthy seasons at least, throw for 300 TDs at least, have 8 of them with 4000+ yards at least, have 8 playoff years at least, with 10 playoff wins at least, and win 2 SBs at least, all with a TD-to-INT ratio of greater than 2. There is my quantified response as to how Luck can be better than Peyton.

[Vinny BoomBatz]

I would prefer Luck leads the team to multiple super bowl championships regardless of his stats...so for me I don't care if he becomes what was some think is better than Manning or not. I just want rings baby!

[Nobody]

But 'body....................Isnt Johnny Unitas the greatest of ALL time???

Not IMO.

[Vinny BoomBatz]

But 'body....................Isnt Johnny Unitas the greatest of ALL time???

He is imo...but like opinions and........well you know the old saying ;)

[oldunclemark]

Not IMO.

Really?

Its not Johnny U.?

The GodFather of the Modern Day QB

Drove his team 86 yards with no time outs to win the 1958 'Greatest Game of All-Time'

Basically invented the two-minute drill?

...3 NFL titles....3 MVPs

his record of a TD pass in 47 consecutive games STILL STANDS 1/2 century later?

You sure?

[rabidfan77]

A topic worth discussing..... It's a rather simple answer in my opinion.

We all love Peyton the person and football player!!!!!! As much as we love what he has done for the franchise; Could we argue that there was more he could have done?

For as many comeback wins he has produced; there are just as many playoff collapses. As die hard Manning/Colts fans, we tend to avoid these discussions. I am the first to say that Manning deserves the honor and respect given to him, but he is just as replaceable as Montana and Farve were. Hence the reason, I got over him leaving quickly and purchased my Luck jersey.

As for Luck, he does not need to better than him stat wise. All Luck has to do is have more playoff success, which I don't think will be that difficult with the new regime. Secondly win multiple Superbowls! We are a loyal but emotional fan base. With that being said, if Luck has a great rookie season, the Manning discussions will cease!

What you fail to realize is that football is a TEAM sport unless Peyton was the GM there isn't much more he could've done, I think most Colts fan under appreciate what Manning did for this franchise. There has always been a sense that 12+ wins per season was expected and easily achievable. I first starting coming to this forum a few years back and I remember the atmosphere of arrogance thought out the posting and the fans on this broad were just plain cocky. Peyton's "failures" in the post season were a result of how Polian built a sub par defense with only a few decent years during the Manning era. Any colts fan knows that Luck has an opportunity to win more SB because 1. he will have a better organizational structure in place and 2. a better defense to help him so he doesn't have to "CARRY" the team like Peyton did. SB don't determine who is a better player we've been through this with Patriot fans for years, Brady in the last 3-4 years has reached/passed Peyton's level of play. Just as Brady has gotten better his defense has gotten worse and the Patriots have continued to fail in there quest for another SB win, all of Brady's rings were with better "overall" teams. Since he's had to carry NE like Peyton carried INDY he has not have the same playoff success, this only states the obvious that (ONE MAN ALONE CAN'T WIN A SB) no matter how great of a player he is. And Luck will always be compared to Manning just ask Steve Young if those comparison's to Montana stopped after he had one great statistical year. The question of "who is better?" will only be answered 20 years from now when we can look back and judge Luck's "ENTIRE" career until then any discussion on this topic is pointless.

[Gavin]

He won't be a better QB than Peyton. Peyton is the GOAT. So, Luck would have to become the new GOAT, unlikely to say the least. To adequately replace Manning, 2 SB wins. Stats and MVPs are great, but the media really only cares about SBs (hence Tom Brady being such a media darling despite being on a much better team than Peyton was for most of their careers).

defensively Brady was on a much better team but outside of Randy Moss name one star wide receiver that he has had that has contributed, he made a bunch of average to below average players better, Troy Brown, Bethel Johnson, David Patten. Julian Edelman, Deion Branch?

[Nobody]

Really?

Its not Johnny U.?

The GodFather of the Modern Day QB

Drove his team 86 yards with no time outs to win the 1958 'Greatest Game of All-Time'

Basically invented the two-minute drill?

...3 NFL titles....3 MVPs

his record of a TD pass in 47 consecutive games STILL STANDS 1/2 century later?

You sure?

Yep.

[Nobody]

defensively Brady was on a much better team but outside of Randy Moss name one star wide receiver that he has had that has contributed, he made a bunch of average to below average players better, Troy Brown, Bethel Johnson, David Patten. Julian Edelman, Deion Branch?

Peyton has made a bunch of scrubs great contributors. Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great. What had Marv done before Peyton? We haven't seen Wayne with a good QB other than Peyton yet. Brady makes his receivers better, but nobody even compares to Peyton in that department. With Peyton, we never had a shortage of good receivers. Not because Polian is a genius, because Peyton made him look like a genius.

[Jules]

Peyton has made a bunch of scrubs great contributors. Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great. What had Marv done before Peyton? We haven't seen Wayne with a good QB other than Peyton yet. Brady makes his receivers better, but nobody even compares to Peyton in that department. With Peyton, we never had a shortage of good receivers. Not because Polian is a genius, because Peyton made him look like a genius.

Peyton is going to stop wars. Peyton will cure cancer. Peyton will pay my bills too I bet if I asked him. Peyton feeds the poor. If I am sitting outside and get too hot and need something to drink, Peyton will emerge magically and hand me a glass of water.

In all honesty who is sick of Peyton vs. Luck threads lately? If so raise your hand.

[SOMDColtsfan]

If Luck is as good as he`s made out to be and stays healthy, I believe the Colts win multiple championships in his tenure. I dont think his stats will ever come close to Peyton Mannings though. Simply because this team is going to be built differently than any team under Peyton. IMO, Irsay is on a mission and knows what he wants in this team and how he wants it built, he "saw the light" so to speak with no defense. Its a shame Peyton didn`t have the same opportunities with a balanced team

[Superman]

I hate this topic. No offense to the thread starter, I just don't think there's any real objective way to compare quarterbacks, especially ones who start their careers 14 years apart.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm

Those are Manning's stats. To me, in order for Luck to be better than him, then he needs to have a 15 year career, averaging 4,300 yards and 32 touchdowns, with a 65%+ completion rate and a 95+ passer rating, and his team needs to be in the playoffs every year, and he needs to have postseason success, and he has to be a model citizen, and his team has to revolve around him. He also has to revolutionize the quarterback position.

There is no other quarterback in NFL history with that kind of resume, not to this point. Even with the rules favoring passing, there aren't many quarterbacks in the league right now that are on pace to come near those numbers.

When Aaron Rodgers hangs his cleats up, his numbers probably won't be as good as Favre's. Steve Young's numbers aren't as good as Joe Montana's. Luck would have to be one of the three best quarterbacks in the history of the NFL to be in the same conversation as Peyton Manning. That's asking a lot.

[Jules]

Too many are way too obsessed with the best ever/GOAT arguments at QB.

Does it really matter? All time greats are all time greats. Who cares who is 1, 4, 8 etc. We all have our own opinions on this anyway and can go in countless directions.

Lets worry more about having a good to great team again more then how Luck will fair in history down the road. Obviously I want Luck to be great but I can't worry about his place in history either vs. Manning or whomever when he hasn't even played yet.

[NewColtsFan]

Peyton has made a bunch of scrubs great contributors. Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great. What had Marv done before Peyton? We haven't seen Wayne with a good QB other than Peyton yet. Brady makes his receivers better, but nobody even compares to Peyton in that department. With Peyton, we never had a shortage of good receivers. Not because Polian is a genius, because Peyton made him look like a genius.

Come on now....

Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great?!? As if they wouldn't have been great on any other team? They were first round draft picks.

Come on.

Why is it necessary for you or any other Colts fan to try and tear down Tom Brady in order to make Peyton Manning look good??

I've never understood it.

I'd rather build Tom Brady UP and still say, Peyton Manning is better. I think that says MORE about Peyton than tearing down an opponent.

And the moment you start saying things like Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great.... well, I'm sorry, I think you lose an debate/argument.

Just one fan's opinion..... as unpopular as it may be...

[Dan]

Come on now....

Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great?!? As if they wouldn't have been great on any other team? They were first round draft picks.

I think "greatER" is a fairer term. Obviously they're both ridiculously talented, but their careers have been made better by having someone like Manning throwing to them.

Why is it necessary for you or any other Colts fan to try and tear down Tom Brady in order to make Peyton Manning look good??

I've never understood it.

I'd rather build Tom Brady UP and still say, Peyton Manning is better. I think that says MORE about Peyton than tearing down an opponent.

While I agree with this, it's unfair to say it's just a Colts thing. Happens with every team across every sport, such is rivalry. I think Brady is brilliant, personally, however I say (hopefully not through Colts bias) that Manning is better.

[Superman]

Come on now....

Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great?!? As if they wouldn't have been great on any other team? They were first round draft picks.

Come on.

Why is it necessary for you or any other Colts fan to try and tear down Tom Brady in order to make Peyton Manning look good??

I've never understood it.

I'd rather build Tom Brady UP and still say, Peyton Manning is better. I think that says MORE about Peyton than tearing down an opponent.

And the moment you start saying things like Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great.... well, I'm sorry, I think you lose an debate/argument.

Just one fan's opinion..... as unpopular as it may be...

I think Nobody gave due credit to Tom Brady for helping his receivers. There was no Brady tear down.

And as highly regarded as Harrison and Wayne were/are, they were better with Manning than they would have been without him.

[Nobody]

Come on now....

Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great?!? As if they wouldn't have been great on any other team? They were first round draft picks.

Come on.

Why is it necessary for you or any other Colts fan to try and tear down Tom Brady in order to make Peyton Manning look good??

I've never understood it.

I'd rather build Tom Brady UP and still say, Peyton Manning is better. I think that says MORE about Peyton than tearing down an opponent.

And the moment you start saying things like Peyton made Wayne and Harrison great.... well, I'm sorry, I think you lose an debate/argument.

Just one fan's opinion..... as unpopular as it may be...

Whatever. Not saying Harrison and Wayne wouldn't have been good on another team, but they wouldn't be what they were. Where did I tear down Brady in there?

[Gramz]

The neverending debate. Wants to make me beat my head against the wall.

It's never been a secret :manning: is my favorite of all time... I don't expect another to replace him in my eyes. Now, having said that, I am very anxious to see Andrew take the field and I am looking forward to watching him do great things with and for the Colts, hopefully for many years to come.

I am tired of the endless comparisons of the two.

[Jay Kirk]

Look bottom line he may never be better than PM,but doesnt have to be to be a great one,I agree with 21Superman on this one,each great quarterback has there own strengths and weaknesses,so lets be fair about it,It also has to do with supporting cast IMO

[Gavin]

The neverending debate. Wants to make me beat my head against the wall.

It's never been a secret :manning: is my favorite of all time... I don't expect another to replace him in my eyes. Now, having said that, I am very anxious to see Andrew take the field and I am looking forward to watching him do great things with and for the Colts, hopefully for many years to come.

I am tired of the endless comparisons of the two.

completely agree on all accounts especially Manning as my favorite Colt at least former Colt, I do like Pat Angerer and Luck, I will add with all the time between now and the season these talks will continue out of sheer boredom of now and anticipation of things to come in the future

[NewColtsFan]

I think Nobody gave due credit to Tom Brady for helping his receivers. There was no Brady tear down.

And as highly regarded as Harrison and Wayne were/are, they were better with Manning than they would have been without him.

Sorry, I should have done a better job in explaining... my comment about tearing down was not toward 'Nobody', but toward other posters in this thread and other threads since I joined.... my bad for not making that more clear. Apologies to 'Nobody'..

As to Wayne/Harrison better with Manning.... well, yeah... OK.... but those were top notch receivers.

Jerry Rice/John Taylor were better with Montana/Young. But there were still great receivers.

I mean... let's be fair about this...

[NewColtsFan]

I think "greatER" is a fairer term. Obviously they're both ridiculously talented, but their careers have been made better by having someone like Manning throwing to them.

While I agree with this, it's unfair to say it's just a Colts thing. Happens with every team across every sport, such is rivalry. I think Brady is brilliant, personally, however I say (hopefully not through Colts bias) that Manning is better.

Dan..... thanks very much for your input.... both comments seem fair and reasonable.... appreciate it very much...

[NewColtsFan]

Whatever. Not saying Harrison and Wayne wouldn't have been good on another team, but they wouldn't be what they were. Where did I tear down Brady in there?

Nobody....

I owe you an apology. I already gave one in my response to Superman, but I owe you one directly to you.

That comment was not directed at you. Completely my bad. It was toward other posters in this thread and other threads I've read since I joined. My fault for not being more clear. My fingers on the keyboard got ahead of my brain. (I **HATE** when that happens!)

And your comment here about Wayne/Harrison clarifies things... Superman made a similar comment.... agree with both of you.

Thanks much.... and again, sorry for the confusion.

[Michael Lebron]

Rabidfan,

I agree with much of your post! However there were several games lost as a result of Peyton's happy feet and poor decision making. I am with you 100 percent that our team will be structured differently moving forward, but as much as WE love Peyton he single handily could have changed the outcome of a few playoff games himself.