Channel Your Inner Coach

[sb41champs]

Head Coach Shane Steichen has shown a proclivity for "going for it" on 4th down - even in an area of the field where a field goal is almost a certainty with Matt Gay.

 

Sadly - the Colts have left TOO MANY "points on the field" by failing to convert most of those 4th down gambles. 

 

Points - that MIGHT have led to a different result in the W-L column.

 

Channel your inner coach - is Steichen making the RIGHT decision to "go for the gusto" - OR - the WRONG decision by leaving "points on the field"?

 

 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

He’s going for the wrong decision imo. You have an elite kicker you use them unless the game is on the line. If the Colts are destroying their opponent then sure, go for it. However in a close game where the game isn’t on the line yet, you take the points. This is one area I really liked Dungy. Take the 3. If Dungy looked at things differently than he did, no doubt we lose to BAL in the playoffs and never win the 06 SB. 

[chad72]

If it is 4th and 1 from the 1 yard line close to goal, I would want them to go for it given the upside is huge and downside is that you make your opponent go 99 yards, unless it is an end of game situation where kicking a FG gives them an almost certain win with less than half a minute left.

 

If it is 4th and 1 from the 40 yard line or beyond, and it is a 55 yard FG or higher, I would go for it to keep from a difficult FG giving good field position for the opposition.

 

Otherwise, take the 3 points.

 

 

[BlackTiger]

I wouldnt go by a general rule.  It depends on the opponent and how you match up with them 

 

Ive agreed and disagreed with some of his choices

[BlackTiger]

We need more specifics here.   4th and goal from the one?  go for that whenever 

 

4th and 5 from the 46?  thats a tough one, its not really a good place to kick a fg, punt or go for it.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

We need more specifics here.   4th and goal from the one?  go for that whenever 

 

4th and 5 from the 49?  thats a tough one, its not really a good place to kick a fg, punt or go for it.

 

That is why coaches take a delay of game to give more latitude and margin for error for their punter.

[BlackTiger]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

That is why coaches take a delay of game to give more latitude and margin for error for their punter.

Thats a good point and a lot of people would probably say do that and punt.  I guess traditional and more conservative coaches would do that every time if they dont need the points now but we do have an aggressive coach

[Solid84]

I think going for it on 4th down is used a bit too much in general across the league. 

If the game’s on the line, go for it. 

 

If you’ve consistenly been able to move the ball 2-3 yards, by all means go for it on 4th and short. 
 

If you’re in need of a gaining the momentum and a big 4th down conversion could do that, it’s worth considering. 
 

As the baseline? Nope, just take the 3 or give the opponent bad field position…

[Indeee]

Channeling......  

 

Rest all of our starters for the remaining 10 weeks

 

[MarylandTerrapin]

1 hour ago, BlackTiger said:

We need more specifics here.   4th and goal from the one?  go for that whenever 

 

4th and 5 from the 46?  thats a tough one, its not really a good place to kick a fg, punt or go for it.

 

4th and 5 from the opponents 46?  I take the 5 yard delay of game and punt from my 49 and pin them inside the 10.  If the defense declines the penalty, then I do a directional kick or try a pooch punt.  At that point, anything inside the 20 is still a win.

 

With a rookie QB, I'm kicking the FG against the Jags in the opener and against the Rams.  With G-Min, I kick the FG at the end of the 1st half against Tennessee to make it 13-6.  Analytics have their place in certain circumstances, but most of the time, I'm taking the points.  Shane needs to know when to swallow pride and take the points when available because we don't have an offense that can score at will.  Even with Peyton, Dungy admitted that it is ok to punt and let the defense play.   

[Peter Nova]

I know what Frank would do.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Take the points if it a reasonable FG distance

[Pelt]

I've got Moss and Taylor to hand the ball off to and Minshew as my QB.

 

I would probably try to balance my offense more than 55 pass attempts to 17 runs - 2 of which were by Minshew.

 

And the score wasn't completely the reason for that. We were chucking it early and often.

 

Get a few deep down the field to get some of the defenders out of the box for crying out loud...

[Nickster]

Most teams go for it these days so there is nothing unusual about Frank and Shane going for it. It’s the trend and it emerged from metrics.  It’s like when baseball players started taking tons of pitches and swinging for the fences almost every time they swing.

 

Metrics apparently suggest that going for it on forth down and taking/swinging for the fences yield more points and runs.

 

 

[Indyfan4life]

Take the FG unless it’s in that iffy range and punting only gets like 20 yards or the offense is at like the 5-10 yard line. 
 

Have Moss and Taylor both on the field at the same time, guarantee it’ll work. Balance the run and passing game with it being Minshew. 
 

Take deep shots when appropriate and take the layups when there. 
 

Not much else. 

[IinD]

I'm ok with going for it on their side of the field on 4th.

 

I'm also a prominent of sending an all out blitz on every third down.. Lol

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, IinD said:

I'm ok with going for it on their side of the field on 4th.

 

I'm also a prominent of sending an all out blitz on every third down.. Lol

Jailbreak blitz on every 3rd down.  Lol.

[IinD]

24 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Jailbreak blitz on every 3rd down.  Lol.

I can't lie Im obviously kidding but literally on every third down I always find myself saying 'send the house' as I watch the play knowing there's a 98% chance we're not blitzing.

[RollerColt]

If it works he made the right decision, if it fails he made the wrong decision. At least that’s how it works around here…

[hoosierhawk]

5 hours ago, Peter Nova said:

I know what Frank would do.

Run Hines up the middle with 4th and goal at the 5yd line?

[Yoshinator]

With our current team, I'm generally running the ball around a 2/1 ratio. Get Moss and Taylor around 15 rushes a game, maybe throw the ball 20 to 25 times. Lean on your strength, which is your running game. You have Matt Gay, who can nail long kicks. Don't be afraid to take the 3 points to build up the score and stay in games. You'll have opportunities at TDs, have to take the 3 as well. As someone said here, if it's 4th and goal on the 1 or 4th and goal on the 45 (or so), go for it. Otherwise, kick the 3 and keep putting points on the board. Use the WRs in the run game and the RBs in the pass game. Throw a deep ball every now and then to keep the defense honest and don't get too predictable. Don't ever abandon either the run or pass game. 

 

As far as the defense, be aggressive. Use the D-Line to put pressure on the QB. Do it consistently. The reason you have a deep D-Line is so you can keep putting pressure on the offense and not tire out. If there's an elite RB, stuff 8 in the box, if there's an elite QB, put pressure on him all game. If he's a rushing QB, put a spy on him. 

 

Coaches should know this stuff. This is what I would personally do if I was the Colts coach.

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, chad72 said:

If it is 4th and 1 from the 1 yard line close to goal, I would want them to go for it given the upside is huge and downside is that you make your opponent go 99 yards, unless it is an end of game situation where kicking a FG gives them an almost certain win with less than half a minute left.

 

If it is 4th and 1 from the 40 yard line or beyond, and it is a 55 yard FG or higher, I would go for it to keep from a difficult FG giving good field position for the opposition.

 

Otherwise, take the 3 points.

 

 

This^

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, IinD said:

I can't lie Im obviously kidding but literally on every third down I always find myself saying 'send the house' as I watch the play knowing there's a 98% chance we're not blitzing.

We have the lowest blitz percentage in the league, but we are respectable in sacks.  Sacks are obviously important, but the issue with Colts pass rush the last couple years are not numbers of sacks, those have been pretty good.  The issue is a low Hurry%.  We have a low number there.  We’ve pretty much been sack or no pressure and that is an issue because we have a poor covering secondary and poor covering LBs.  NYJ, DeT and SF are all bottom 5 in blitz% and top 10 in Hurry% and sacks and pressures.  NYJ is 1st and Det is 2nd in Hurries and SF Is 7th.
 

These 3 teams get it done with the front 4.  We have built and drafted with massive capital in  salary and the draft to build a front 4 that creates pressure like those teams.

 

it just hasn’t happened.  The front 4 does not produce the type of pressure that matches the capital.  We haven’t drafted press corners or coverage type LBs and we hired Gus Bradley and he just doesn’t blitz.  So we won’t likely see more of it unless we get a new DC.

 

Sometimes I’d like to see more blitzing but I wonder about how that would work out with our coverage guys.  I also wonder if the teams that have a high blitz% and are effective have better coverage guys.  I would think so.

 

But is is frustrating to see us rush 4 and sometimes 3 and get carved up.

[throwing BBZ]

It is early in season one and he wants to find out what he has. We got in several competitive reps and learned we better have different options. 

 Including better blocking TE's. 

[compuls1v3]

12 hours ago, sb41champs said:

Head Coach Shane Steichen has shown a proclivity for "going for it" on 4th down - even in an area of the field where a field goal is almost a certainty with Matt Gay.

 

Sadly - the Colts have left TOO MANY "points on the field" by failing to convert most of those 4th down gambles. 

 

Points - that MIGHT have led to a different result in the W-L column.

 

Channel your inner coach - is Steichen making the RIGHT decision to "go for the gusto" - OR - the WRONG decision by leaving "points on the field"?

 

 

Personally I feel he's leaving too many points on the board,  but he's a first time HC, so I'll give him slack.   He certainly kicked the FGs vs. Baltimore.

[compuls1v3]

8 hours ago, IinD said:

I can't lie Im obviously kidding but literally on every third down I always find myself saying 'send the house' as I watch the play knowing there's a 98% chance we're not blitzing.

I wonder what our stats are on successful third down blitzes.   It seemed like it was working against the Rams.... then we stopped. 

[shakedownstreet]

13 hours ago, sb41champs said:

Channel Your Inner Coach

 

I tried but only managed to channel my inner couch

 

 

[Painterman]

Take the freakin points!

[richard pallo]

Take the points especially since we struggle in that area.  Hopefully that changes as Taylor rounds into shape.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

The trend these days is to go for it, even though at times it seems more  reckless than aggressive. 

It could just be another way to achieve the script??? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Almost every coach goes for it on 4th and short. It just isn't Shane. Having said that, he has taken 3 quite a bit. He did against the Ravens all game and we won. The only 4th down where he went for it, and we didn't get it that stood out was in the Tennessee game at the end of the 1st Half. We should have taken the 3 there. We still won that game though, so it really didn't hurt us in the end.

[Nickster]

11 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

I wonder what our stats are on successful third down blitzes.   It seemed like it was working against the Rams.... then we stopped. 

I’d be interested in that too compared to what we give up on blitzes.  It would seem that since we blitz so rarely that our success rate would be higher than it would if we blitzed a lot because there would be an element of surprise presumably.

[sb41champs]

11 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

I tried but only managed to channel my inner couch

 

 

HYSTERICAL!!

 

Later tater!!

[CoachLite]

On 10/20/2023 at 11:36 AM, sb41champs said:

Head Coach Shane Steichen has shown a proclivity for "going for it" on 4th down - even in an area of the field where a field goal is almost a certainty with Matt Gay.

 

Sadly - the Colts have left TOO MANY "points on the field" by failing to convert most of those 4th down gambles. 

 

Points - that MIGHT have led to a different result in the W-L column.

 

Channel your inner coach - is Steichen making the RIGHT decision to "go for the gusto" - OR - the WRONG decision by leaving "points on the field"?

 

 

Quoting "the analytics" is an excuse people who understand analytics never would use. There are just too many conditional variables to take into consideration.

[Aaron86]

I like his aggressive approach. That being said, I think we need to help our defense more then put them in a bad postion. I wouldn't want our offense starting at our own 1 yard line. I think with the struggles of the defense we have to help not hurt them. I think Shane needs to do better at putting the team in a postion to win and not be so aggressive when the game is close. It's what got Anthony hurt and now it's hurting the team. We need to develop  this team before we become so aggressive.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 10/20/2023 at 3:55 PM, Nickster said:

Jailbreak blitz on every 3rd down.  Lol.

I know you were being funny but I actually wish we would blitz more on 3rd down. 

[CoachLite]

45 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Quoting "the analytics" is an excuse people who understand analytics never would use. There are just too many conditional variables to take into consideration.

Analytics quantifies how much you don't know. That's not what coaching is all about - knowing what to do, when and why.

[Nickster]

42 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know you were being funny but I actually wish we would blitz more on 3rd down. 

It may or may not be effective for us.

 

Personally, I think we would get absolutely torched if we blitzed more because we have minimal man coverage talent in the LBs and secondaries.

 

If you want to blitz you have to draft/sign man cover players.  Not Darius Leonard, not Franklin ,  not Brents.

 

We don’t have man type players right now.  We had a rarely blitzing guy in Flus, then tripled down with the least blitzing dude possible in Gus.

 

The best way is to get pressure with your front 4.  Doesn’t look like that is going to pan out for us despite all the spend.  But we’ve drafted/signed zone players for the back 8.

 

I don’t know if it’s CBs philosophy. It might be Jimmy, or it just might be coincidence, but we rarely blitzed when we played Tampa2 and C2 as our base all those years in the early 2000s.

 

we’ve never blitzed much since I’ve been a fan that I can recall.  

But you have to have the right personnel or you’re gonna get torched over and over, and trust me, if that started going down that way, Colts MB would turn so hard against blitzing it would make the Mbs striking excoriation of Saint Jonathon Taylor look like a love fest.