Who Will Be a Playmaker?

[Smonroe]

Obviously we’re counting on AR5, but he can’t do it all on his own.

 

Who will be the guy that the other team has to especially prepare for each week?   We may not have JT, so I don’t think any of our other RBs are scaring anyone.

 

MPJ, AP?  Good WRs, assuming the Oline gives AR time to let them get open.   Hopefully Downs emerges.  Potentially good TEs, but is there a Kelce?  Not yet. 

 

I think you all see my point.   We don’t have anyone besides AR (again, projecting that he’s that guy) who defenses really have to look out for, right?

 

 

[Archer]

I don’t see us as particularly deficient in playmakers.  From the sound of things, Downs could be our big play guy.  But honestly, there are maybe two special playmakers in the whole division that Ds have to specially plan for: Henry and Ridley (if you believe his hype.)  I’m, of course, considering Taylor already gone…

[NorthernColt]

I actually like our WR trio right now. Pitt and Peirce on the outside with Downs in the slot. Downs will be a great chains mover, load the box, playaction pass deep ball to Pitt or Peirce one on one, I'll take those chances any day with Richardsons deep ball.

 

Also like our TE group if we do use them right this year.

 

Its really just RBs being the question. But I saw Zack Hicks throw some stats out saying, with a mobile QB like AR5, you don't need to be super dynamic as a RB, just a guy who can hit a gap hard. I guess we will see. 

 

I personally have the most question about our OL instead of our play makers.

[Smonroe]

8 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

I actually like our WR trio right now. Pitt and Peirce on the outside with Downs in the slot. Downs will be a great chains mover, load the box, playaction pass deep ball to Pitt or Peirce one on one, I'll take those chances any day with Richardsons deep ball.

 

Also like our TE group if we do use them right this year.

 

Its really just RBs being the question. But I saw Zack Hicks throw some stats out saying, with a mobile QB like AR5, you don't need to be super dynamic as a RB, just a guy who can hit a gap hard. I guess we will see. 

 

I personally have the most question about our OL instead of our play makers.

 

Agreed.  I think our young CBs will get burned a bit early in the season, but there's enough promise of talent that with experience they could be a very good unit.

 

The OL is questionable.  Not sure we have a solid starting 5, and the depth beyond that is very thin.  Those backups will play because injuries will happen.  I hope it doesn't get as bad as it did last season.  We don't want to see AR start with injuries and ruin another franchise QB.

 

[RollerColt]

I think Downs will be the guy to move the chains. He just gets open, plain and simple. That's what you need especially for a rookie QB. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

Obviously we’re counting on AR5, but he can’t do it all on his own.

 

Who will be the guy that the other team has to especially prepare for each week?   We may not have JT, so I don’t think any of our other RBs are scaring anyone.

 

MPJ, AP?  Good WRs, assuming the Oline gives AR time to let them get open.   Hopefully Downs emerges.  Potentially good TEs, but is there a Kelce?  Not yet. 

 

I think you all see my point.   We don’t have anyone besides AR (again, projecting that he’s that guy) who defenses really have to look out for, right?

 

 

Well….  I guess it’s how you define playmaker?   
 

But personally, as of today,  I think our top three wr’s, Pitt, Pierce and Downs are all playmakers.   And I believe our tight ends, Woods, Granson and Ogletree can also make plays.   
 

And for the group that has repeatedly said Taylor is easily replaceable,  he’s laughing on his way out the door.   Good luck with that. 

[NorthernColt]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well….  I guess it’s how you define playmaker?   
 

But personally, as of today,  I think our top three wr’s, Pitt, Pierce and Downs are all playmakers.   And I believe our tight ends, Woods, Granson and Ogletree can also make plays.   
 

And for the group that has repeatedly said Taylor is easily replaceable,  he’s laughing on his way out the door.   Good luck with that. 

 Regarding Taylor, I dont think anyone is denying his talent. IMO, having and paying an elite RB is not conducive to winning a superbowl. History speaks for itself.

[Solid84]

AR5, Downs, Pitt and Pierce are for sure going to make something happen. I hope some of our TEs show up this year. Granson has had a good camp but Woods have been injured forever it feels like? Hopefully Ogletree keeps building off of his good camp last season. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

 Regarding Taylor, I dont think anyone is denying his talent. IMO, having and paying an elite RB is not conducive to winning a superbowl. History speaks for itself.

I understand the financial component.   But many posters here literally say it will not be hard to replace Taylor.   I think that’s false and they’re in for a rude awakening once JT is gone.  

[Smonroe]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I understand the financial component.   But many posters here literally say it will not be hard to replace Taylor.   I think that’s false and they’re in for a rude awakening once JT is gone.  

 

I think the popular belief is that a RB is not that important in the Philly offense.  Which is supported by the way the Eagles treated their best RB from last season.  But AR isn't Jalen (yet) and the Colts Oline isn't as good as the Eagles.

 

No one can argue that JT isn't special.  Having him in the same backfield as AR5 would make a big difference.

 

And I agree with most of you.  We have a few guys who could be playmakers.  But IMHO, no one (besides JT) is as of yet.

[Solid84]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I understand the financial component.   But many posters here literally say it will not be hard to replace Taylor.   I think that’s false and they’re in for a rude awakening once JT is gone.  

It’s not going to be an apples to apples comparison, though, with our new offense. So, even if an RBBC don’t get 1800 yards an 18 TDs on 350 carries it’s not comparable to JT’s ‘21 season. That’s without acknowledging the fact there are no guarantees JT will play up to that level again. 
 

Also, I don’t think anyone has said replacing JT’s performance 1 to 1 is going to be easy, but getting adequate performance for FAR less money is. 

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Smonroe said:

 

I think the popular belief is that a RB is not that important in the Philly offense.  Which is supported by the way the Eagles treated their best RB from last season.  But AR isn't Jalen (yet) and the Colts Oline isn't as good as the Eagles.

 

No one can argue that JT isn't special.  Having him in the same backfield as AR5 would make a big difference.

 

And I agree with most of you.  We have a few guys who could be playmakers.  But IMHO, no one (besides JT) is as of yet.

That’s based on the PHILLY offense.   Best OL in football.  Talented ascending QB.   Top WR’s, a very good TE and decent running backs.   
 

Do that Colts have ANY of that today?   No.   Maybe someday, but not today.  Hopefully soon, but it could also be a year or two.  

So the Philly comparison doesn’t work for me at all.   I’ve noticed a few posters who say our RB’s will get 4 yards a carry, but we will miss JT’s ability to break tackles and turning short runs into longer runs.  100 percent true.  
 

The Colts have to do whatever they have to do, trade him or not.   But I think way too many badly underestimate JTs impact on this offense.  

 

[IndyD4U]

I'm expecting big things from Pierce this year.

[Solid84]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s based on the PHILLY offense.   Best OL in football.  Talented ascending QB.   Top WR’s, a very good TE and decent running backs.   
 

Do that Colts have ANY of that today?   No.   Maybe someday, but not today.  Hopefully soon, but it could also be a year or two.  

So the Philly comparison doesn’t work for me at all.   I’ve noticed a few posters who say our RB’s will get 4 yards a carry, but we will miss JT’s ability to break tackles and turning short runs into longer runs.  100 percent true.  
 

The Colts have to do whatever they have to do, trade him or not.   But I think way too many badly underestimate JTs impact on this offense.  

 

Teams knew how to handle him last year and he had 81 carries for 328 yards and one 1 TD in the first 4 games before he got injured. That’s not MVP level.
 

And despite teams supposedly focusing on stopping him the rest of our offense got NOTHING done. 
 

Edit: To me it’s all about the OL. Fix it and we can put Jimmy the Towel-guy in as RB. You inow what I mean. 

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Teams knew how to handle him last year and he had 81 carries for 328 yards and one 1 TD in the first 4 games before he got injured. That’s not MVP level.
 

And despite teams supposedly focusing on stopping him the rest of our offense got NOTHING done. 
 

Edit: To me it’s all about the OL. Fix it and we can put Jimmy the Towel-guy in as RB. You inow what I mean. 

Teams knew how to handle WHO last year?    Taylor?    Are you kidding me?  
 

You think the falloff was because “teams knew how to handle him” ?!?    
 

It wasn’t because of the implosion of the Colts offensive line?   It wasn’t because of the bad play at quarterback?   It wasn’t because of the offensive offense, completely dysfunctional?    You think it was because teams knew how to handle him.   
 

Im sorry…. I couldn't disagree more.   I think this discussion has run its course.   We’re going to have to agree to disagree and call it a day.   

[Solid84]

39 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Teams knew how to handle WHO last year?    Taylor?    Are you kidding me?  
 

You think the falloff was because “teams knew how to handle him” ?!?    
 

It wasn’t because of the implosion of the Colts offensive line?   It wasn’t because of the bad play at quarterback?   It wasn’t because of the offensive offense, completely dysfunctional?    You think it was because teams knew how to handle him.   
 

Im sorry…. I couldn't disagree more.   I think this discussion has run its course.   We’re going to have to agree to disagree and call it a day.   

They knew how to handle him and it was clear a good run blocking OL was more important than anything JT did. 
 

Edit: Just like with Bell. When he didn’t have the Steelers run blocking he couldn’t do squat. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I understand the financial component.   But many posters here literally say it will not be hard to replace Taylor.   I think that’s false and they’re in for a rude awakening once JT is gone.  

I agree. For some reason there are people in here that think JT is easy to replace. They just say, well he is a RB.

 

He just isn't any other RB, he is a HR hitter and top 3 RB in the league + only 24 years old. That is why I say if we trade him, it needs to be for a package = a good O.Lineman and 1st round pick or a 1st round and 2nd round pick. People can say, we can't get that. Homer's response would be, then we aren't trading him 

[NewColtsFan]

30 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

They knew how to handle him and it was clear a good run blocking OL was more important than anything JT did. 
 

Edit: Just like with Bell. When he didn’t have the Steelers run blocking he couldn’t do squat. 

Again.   I see this 180 degrees differently.   And after all the discussions in this community, to the best of my knowledge, you’re the only poster here I’ve seen proclaim Taylor fell off because teams knew how to figure him out.   That’s a first for me. 
 

In fact, I think you’ve contradicted your own argument.   I believe you said no one is saying that Taylor can be replaced on a 1 to 1 basis, but they’re factoring in the financial component.   Well, guess what?  Your new argument, that teams figured out Taylor,  has zero to do with finances.  It has to do with ability.   
 

This exchange is only getting worse.   I hope we can wrap this up soon.   There’s no upside in this discussion.  We see this the opposite.  

[BlackTiger]

If we dont trade him then he is close to going to war with the team and sitting out.

 

Thats why i would take a second.  Its not that we will replace his production, its that i dont trust him to actually play here for much longer 

[2006Coltsbestever]

27 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

They knew how to handle him and it was clear a good run blocking OL was more important than anything JT did. 
 

Edit: Just like with Bell. When he didn’t have the Steelers run blocking he couldn’t do squat. 

As long as the run blocking doesn't stink and is average, a great RB can make any Line look better. It works both ways. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

If we dont trade him then he is close to going to war with the team and sitting out.

 

Thats why i would take a second.  Its not that we will replace his production, its that i dont trust him to actually play here for much longer 

We hold the leverage, no way am I just taking a 2nd. If he sits out, he loses money and it makes him look bad. I doubt he does that, if he does, it could actually jeopardize his career not playing for a year. A year away from the NFL is almost like being out 2 years in any other sports because of the contact they take, not to mention the rust. Look at what happened to Bell.

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Obviously we’re counting on AR5, but he can’t do it all on his own.

 

Who will be the guy that the other team has to especially prepare for each week?   We may not have JT, so I don’t think any of our other RBs are scaring anyone.

 

MPJ, AP?  Good WRs, assuming the Oline gives AR time to let them get open.   Hopefully Downs emerges.  Potentially good TEs, but is there a Kelce?  Not yet. 

 

I think you all see my point.   We don’t have anyone besides AR (again, projecting that he’s that guy) who defenses really have to look out for, right?

 

 

 

  By 2025 mid-season we should have a fairly fine tuned 8-10 playmakers ready to take on the world. It will be a tough road with no guarantees of course. The new regime will have their program going pretty well by mid 2024, maybe we're a .500 team after then with a few fun upsets.

[throwing BBZ]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We hold the leverage, no way am I just taking a 2nd. If he sits out, he loses money and it makes him look bad. I doubt he does that, if he does, it could actually jeopardize his career not playing for a year. A year away from the NFL is almost like being out 2 years in any other sports because of the contact they take, not to mention the rust. Look at what happened to Bell.

 

 You word this oddly. "am I taking a second". Not sure you are rationalizing this well.

 You think there is No Way we consumate a deal for only a second.

Guess we will see if so or when the equivocation begins. lol

 

 I'll Guess he won't sign for less than 4yr 48m. With 22m FGuaranteed.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We hold the leverage, no way am I just taking a 2nd. If he sits out, he loses money and it makes him look bad. I doubt he does that, if he does, it could actually jeopardize his career not playing for a year. A year away from the NFL is almost like being out 2 years in any other sports because of the contact they take, not to mention the rust. Look at what happened to Bell.

Honestly I think the Bell deterioration had as much to do with the fact he gained a TON of weight.   Might’ve even been two tons!   He really let himself go.  Very tough to recover from, plus he had a decent amount in the bank weighing him down.  

[Solid84]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Again.   I see this 180 degrees differently.   And after all the discussions in this community, to the best of my knowledge, you’re the only poster here I’ve seen proclaim Taylor fell off because teams knew how to figure him out.   That’s a first for me. 
 

In fact, I think you’ve contradicted your own argument.   I believe you said no one is saying that Taylor can be replaced on a 1 to 1 basis, but they’re factoring in the financial component.   Well, guess what?  Your new argument, that teams figured out Taylor,  has zero to do with finances.  It has to do with ability.   
 

This exchange is only getting worse.   I hope we can wrap this up soon.   There’s no upside in this discussion.  We see this the opposite.  

Taylor’s production can be replaced 1 to 1 for less money than he wants. It may not be easy though. Adequate performance can be had for far less money fairly easily though. 
 

Any team stacking the box will stop the run. Doesn’t matter if the RB is elite, good or bad. JT isn’t going to change that. 

The Oline is more important than the RB for rushing numbers. 

 

Seems your looking for a “gotcha” moment rather than what I’m actually saying. 
 

I agree we’re not getting any where with this though. 

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Obviously we’re counting on AR5, but he can’t do it all on his own.

 

Who will be the guy that the other team has to especially prepare for each week?   We may not have JT, so I don’t think any of our other RBs are scaring anyone.

 

MPJ, AP?  Good WRs, assuming the Oline gives AR time to let them get open.   Hopefully Downs emerges.  Potentially good TEs, but is there a Kelce?  Not yet. 

 

I think you all see my point.   We don’t have anyone besides AR (again, projecting that he’s that guy) who defenses really have to look out for, right?

 

 

Downs and MacKenzie both have shown really good flashes and done so consistently. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

43 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 You word this oddly. "am I taking a second". Not sure you are rationalizing this well.

 You think there is No Way we consumate a deal for only a second.

Guess we will see if so or when the equivocation begins. lol

 

 I'll Guess he won't sign for less than 4yr 48m. With 22m FGuaranteed.

Simply, if a team just offered me a 2nd and nothing else, I would not do it.

[OLD FAN MAN]

i dont see any game changers on this roster but i am hoping ar becomes one

[BlackTiger]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We hold the leverage, no way am I just taking a 2nd

He could play the minimum number of games then hold out and sit the rest of the year.

 

If we get to next year like that he will demand a trade again.  Would they be bold enough to tag him when he doesnt want to play for Chris and Jim and wants out of indy in general?

 

accepting a second for him could make this all a lot easier 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

He could play the minimum number of games then hold out and sit the rest of the year.

 

If we get to next year like that he will demand a trade again.  Would they be bold enough to tag him when he doesnt want to play for Chris and Jim and wants out of indy in general?

 

accepting a second for him could make this all a lot easier 

It would be easier and it would be getting rid of a headache, but we would be getting ripped off. So I say no. I get your point though.

[BlackTiger]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It would be easier and it would be getting rid of a headache, but we would be getting ripped off. So I say no. I get your point though.

 

I understand where you are coming from, if one still thinks theres a chance that he will play out the year and negotiate with the team in good faith next year then we should hang on to him or ask more than that.

 

Thats starting to seem unlikely to me, it looks like he wants out of here in general for various reasons now imo.  Its not crazy to wonder if the marriage is a factor now, maybe Jims comments rubbed him wrong too?

 

He never seemed unhappy in indiana before but a marriage could change that and be adding fuel to this

 

I remember there were some rumors that Sabonis didnt mind Indiana until he got married and then his wife wanted out.

[Zoltan]

The easy answer is that Pierce and Downs will have so big plays. Pittman is gonna do the dirty work and get a lot of 3rd down completions for 1st downs. Once Zach Moss is back I think he showed some flashes last year that he can make some plays and I think we are all hoping Jelani becomes the TE threat we all want him to be. 

[Myles]

How many "playmakers" can a 4-13 team have?

[Crunked]

was about to say, Know one? me either........ no one....but hopefully someone rises from the ashes.....

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, BlackTiger said:

 

I understand where you are coming from, if one still thinks theres a chance that he will play out the year and negotiate with the team in good faith next year then we should hang on to him or ask more than that.

 

Thats starting to seem unlikely to me, it looks like he wants out of here in general for various reasons now imo.  Its not crazy to wonder if the marriage is a factor now, maybe Jims comments rubbed him wrong too?

 

He never seemed unhappy in indiana before but a marriage could change that and be adding fuel to this

 

I remember there were some rumors that Sabonis didnt mind Indiana until he got married and then his wife wanted out.

 

It may have been said in the dozens of pages of JT posts, but here's what I have to wonder.

 

We all know he's a classy young man, in the community and on the field.  I wonder if he's carrying the torch for all RBs, basically being a martyr for the cause.  He knows he has no leverage, he knows it's probably hurting his brand, and he probably knows he's not going to get Kamara/McCaffrey money.

 

But if he can get more than the now going rate for RBs, maybe he's doing this to elevate the positions monetary value for all of the guys who's careers are short and are never paid.  Kind of a noble gesture.

 

I could be 100% wrong, and it may all be about money.  I still think he's a unique talent (when he's healthy) and should be better compensated.  Just MHO.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

Taylor’s production can be replaced 1 to 1 for less money than he wants. It may not be easy though. Adequate performance can be had for far less money fairly easily though. 
 

Any team stacking the box will stop the run. Doesn’t matter if the RB is elite, good or bad. JT isn’t going to change that. 

The Oline is more important than the RB for rushing numbers. 

 

Seems your looking for a “gotcha” moment rather than what I’m actually saying. 
 

I agree we’re not getting any where with this though. 

Im not looking for anything, gotcha or otherwise.   I simply quoted you back to you.   You didn’t accuse me of misquoting you.   
 

And may I remind you,  the longer this went on, the more I disagreed and said so.  And I repeatedly encouraged you to end this saying the longer this went the more we disagreed.   It was you who kept coming back hoping you’d convince me of the soundness of your argument.

 

Look….  I’d like to part as friends here.  Things are about to get very crazy in the next 7-14 days.   We should all be focused on that….    
 

 

[IinD]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

How many "playmakers" can a 4-13 team have?

[CoachLite]

Hey! Let's give the defensive side a shout. Grant Stuard may be a playmaker sooner than later.

[chad72]

Pittman, JT, Downs - will be Top 3 playmakers outside AR and yes, I feel JT will be signed 

 

Our TEs will be right next there 

[sb41champs]

We have playmakers!

 

The only question is - will they be DIFFERENCE MAKERS in 2023??