Chicago trade with Carolina

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

Carolina is going to take Richardson or Levis. Frank said in his intro press conference with the Panthers that he wants a running team with a Quarterback like Jalen Hurts. He said that out of his own mouth and in commentary. Neither Stroud nor Young fit that profile.

That is if Frank is the one making the decision. At the same time reports seem to be that Tapper wants Stroud. 

[indykmj]

34 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

That's because this is now a qb driven league more than ever. Rule changes now cater to the offense to promote scoring and feature the passing game.

Yep, it's a different era with a different rules regime.

 

Since we're on the topic, Da Bears starting WRs in their SB year were Bernard Berrian and 

Mushin Muhammad. Neither is gonna make anyone forget Rice or Moss.

 

Is it any wonder why CB will likely never draft a WR in the 1st round ?

[Crush22]

This board after Ballard NOT trading:

He should have traded!

 

This board after Ballard trading:

Why would he do that?!

[krunk]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

That is if Frank is the one making the decision. At the same time reports seem to be that Tapper wants Stroud. 

I definitely think their pick is going to be based on what Frank wants for his offense. The move QB like Hurts. I dont doubt at all thats what they want. 

[Indeee]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

George bremers podcast partner said on his podcast this morning he hasn’t been this dejected since luck retired.  George says stay at four and take defense and go get a vet. I do not agree with him on that. But I totally get what Ryan said. I feel like everything was just ripped from us.

I'm telling you to not worry so much as these QB's are not really considered generational talent. They ALL have flaws, thus not perfect solutions. Does that mean none will end up being great QB's? No, but it doesn't mean they will either. 

 

I get the feeling of our fans, because we have had 5 years of QB uncertainty, and the natives are getting restless. 

 

Even though unpopular, which led me to having a popular post , I still think the Colts should make a move that would be less damaging from compensation and go after Zach Wilson who is still on a rookie deal. If Steichen is as good as they are stating, then maybe he can get Wilson on track and if not, then we go hard after Maye or Williams, who are considered to be generational talent next year. 

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

George bremers podcast partner said on his podcast this morning he hasn’t been this dejected since luck retired.  George says stay at four and take defense and go get a vet. I do not agree with him on that. But I totally get what Ryan said. I feel like everything was just ripped from us.

First of all, we NEVER had pick 1. So how anyone can say it was”ripped from us” is just beyond rational thought.

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

2 minutes ago, Crush22 said:

This board after Ballard NOT trading:

He should have traded!

 

This board after Ballard trading:

Why would he do that?!

Lol I think the one trade everyone really was on board with, was the Buckner trade

[jbaron04]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Oddly enough, I see this as a possibility at this point. We could give up two 1st round picks, and they would be better picks than the Raiders or Jets. We have the upper hand on Lamar if we want him. The only downsides are we'd have to pay him almost immediately, and the Ravens can match our offer and not get rid of him (though with the 4th overall pick, I think they would let us have him).

So what I was wondering is, since Lamar had till July to sign offer sheet we go thru the draft see how it play out. If we get young move forward with him as day one starter or Richardson sign a vet let him sit a year to develop if he is playing good enough to contribute let him him play. If we strike out on both draft Anderson at 4 and trade back into end of first round and take hooker. Then assuming we would be a playoff team we then try to sign Lamar to what deal he wants and have to give up our 2024/2025 first round pick which might be in the teens to late 20s with Lamar at QB. Again not sure how the offer sheet actually works as far as how soon do we have to offer it and all

[SOMDColtsfan]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ballard MADE the tough decision.   He decided NOT to meet whatever Chicago’s asking price was.   Ultimately,  the decision could cost him his job.   I doubt it was easy.  

Good point! Just the decision a lot of people here didn't want him to make. I'm good with it, that's a lot to give up especially sitting at 4. Still a decision with result yet to be seen. 

[Fluke_33]

I’m sad now

[krunk]

17 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

But what does the owner want. I doubt they moved to one for either. They would of just moved to 3.

Why waste time having a coach tell you what he needs for his offense and then you force him to get something counter to that coming right out the gate? Im sure he discussed what he wants in his system before they even signed the contract. The Eagles system is Franks system. They were just in the Super Bowl. Your coach tells you for this to work we need a QB like Hurts. We need a move QB. And then you go out and do something entirely different to begin the relationship? I dont see it. Im very sure they get him what fits his offense. Before moves like this are made im sure he and Tepper were on the same page.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, jbaron04 said:

So what I was wondering is, since Lamar had till July to sign offer sheet we go thru the draft see how it play out. If we get young move forward with him as day one starter or Richardson sign a vet let him sit a year to develop if he is playing good enough to contribute let him him play. If we strike out on both draft Anderson at 4 and trade back into end of first round and take hooker. Then assuming we would be a playoff team we then try to sign Lamar to what deal he wants and have to give up our 2024/2025 first round pick which might be in the teens to late 20s with Lamar at QB. Again not sure how the offer sheet actually works as far as how soon do we have to offer it and all

We could do that, but we'd lose all our leverage if it was after the draft. We have the luxury of having the 4th overall pick to offer the Ravens before the draft, if we do it after, every team is on equal footing and the Ravens can just choose which offer to accept based on who they think will have the highest pick in 2024. So it gets risky after the draft.

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

7 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I'm telling you to not worry so much as these QB's are not really considered generational talent. They ALL have flaws, thus not perfect solutions. Does that mean none will end up being great QB's? No, but it doesn't mean they will either. 

 

I get the feeling of our fans, because we have had 5 years of QB uncertainty, and the natives are getting restless. 

 

Even though unpopular, which led me to having a popular post , I still think the Colts should make a move that would be less damaging from compensation and go after Zach Wilson who is still on a rookie deal. If Steichen is as good as they are stating, then maybe he can get Wilson on track and if not, then we go hard after Maye or Williams, who are considered to be generational talent next year. 

Rather one of the rookies from the 9ers.  I want Zach Wilson no where near this team not because of talent but because of the attitude and mindset he has

[Indeee]

1 minute ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

Rather one of the rookies from the 9ers.  I want Zach Wilson no where near this team not because of talent but because of the attitude and mindset he has

Ok, or Lance. Same situation.

[Crush22]

 

Keep Lamar out yo' mouf!

[jbaron04]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We could do that, but we'd lose all our leverage if it was after the draft. We have the luxury of having the 4th overall pick to offer the Ravens before the draft, if we do it after, every team is on equal footing and the Ravens can just choose which offer to accept based on who they think will have the highest pick in 2024. So it gets risky after the draft.

I think Lamar is the one that has to accept offer from a certain team then ravens have to match or get picks. But again I’m not 100% sure how it all works. But I have a feeling unless we offer Lamar watson type contract ravens would match it anyway

[Dr. T]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

 

 

This is an Old Testament verse and Frank prefers the New Testament.

Here it is: (and remember that it's tattooed on his bicep)

"Be ye strong therefore, and let not your hands be weak: for your work shall be rewarded"

Slightly narcissistic, say ye? 

[strt182]

50 minutes ago, stitches said:

Go to Frank Reich's introductory press-conference and listen to what he's saying about the type of QB he wants. At the time I thought he was describing Anthony Richardson: 

 

- "it's a passing league but you have to run the ball to be a championship team"

 

- "offensively what you want to do is create a conflict in the defender's mind - is it a run is it a pass? is it RPO Is it first level RPO? Is it second level RPO? Is it going deep? Starts with running the football ... And second thing is - you have to get the ball vertical down the field... "

 

 

 



 

 

 

 

Q: What type of QB do you prefer? A running style QB like Jalen Hurts(you mentioned the RPOs) or traditional drop back QB?

 

FR: We all know where this game is going, right? We all know the game is going more towards a movement style QB. I embrace that. I love that. I've worked with Carson Wentz and we've done a lot of good things with movement, RPOs, playaction. Same thing in Indy, we've had some drop back guys and some movement guys... Ultimately we can adapt to whatever... but where the game is going... and most of the guys coming into the league from college have more movement. That has some advantages - the defensive players will tell you - when that QB is there and he's a threat to run(you watch Jalen Hurts and the Eagles... which our offenses are very similar, because of our connections[with Steichen and Sirianni] and the QB is running a zone read and he's a threat to run ... it just puts the defense in conflict. Slows the backside down. We have a saying "frontside wins games, backside wins championships". Well if I got a QB who can run and he's making the defensive end or linebacker hold his water, this is gonna make my guys on the front side. It's going to make the guys on the OL have better leverage... but at some level even those guys have to win from the pocket. If we have one of those guys, we won't drop 50 times, but you gotta drop back 10 times. It's 3d and 10 and the game is on the line... you probably are playing from the pocket. We can develop that as well! You gotta understand who you're drafting, continue to develop them as a player... we can all get better. I can become better as a coach, they can become better as a player. But ultimately that's the challenge and that's the excitement of it. 

 

 

 

This is his direct answer to a question about what type of QB he prefers. He waxed poetic for 5 minutes on the advantages of having a QB who can run and then added you still have to develop his passing game. Tell me this doesn't encapsulate Richardson almost to a T. He said pretty much nothing about a traditional pocket passer that drops back and distributes the ball(aka Stroud type) 

 

 

But yet everybody knew what frank was doing due to his predictability in play calling. I think that alone cost atleast 2 games last year.

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

Here's my thoughts on the situation:

 

IMO the Bears wanted a 1st round pick for next year and they very likely wanted a win-now piece in addition(this has been a consistent report ever since they actually floated the possibility of trading out of no.1). IMO the reason Panthers got it done is - they likely were the only team in the top 10 that offered their first round pick next year + a really good young vet. We probably offered something like a couple of seconds and vets(Kenny Moore?), but it wasn't enough... 

 

IMO if the Colts offered the 1st next year, we would have been able to seal the deal. But Ballard prepared us during the combine that he likes where we are at 4 and that he isn't desperate to move up. IMO, this was actually the case and NOT a smokescreen. He didn't want to give up the 1st... AND I LOVE IT that he didn't get swept by the excitement and perceived pressure on him to make such a trade. I've been on the record for a while that I don't think any of those QBs are good/clean enough to warrant giving up an additional 1st round pick for(a 1st round pick that BTW is likely to be high when you are starting a rookie QB).

 

I've been plenty critical of Ballard for philosophical disagreements I have with him, but this is something that IMO is a strong side for him - he doesn't let emotion dictate his decision-making. He makes a calculated and informed decision and he sticks with it, no matter the pressure and no matter the dopamine boost the fans would get for a few weeks because we traded our 1st next year(which very likely might be more valuable than the pick we have now). One of the big worries I had was that Ballard would act like a GM on the hot seat, who's desperate for quick wins and this would compromise our long-term future. 

 

I would much prefer we draft Richardson + best TE or WR in the second + have our 1st next year(if we truly suck - get a generational QB in Caleb Williams or Drake Maye, if we are slightly better - maybe have a chance at Marvin Harrison Jr), rather than give up those picks for a QB with questionable ceiling. 

 

On the Panthers potentially trading that pick again... I don't buy it... maybe they can trade with the Texans because everybody seems to assume they are after Young. 

 

On the Panthers still not having decided who they want - I call nonsense. You don't trade that much capital if you don't have a specific player in mind. Now who that is... is a different question. Seems like the majority assumes it's Stroud. 

 

 

Agreed. This team had four wins. Let's say they traded up for one of the young guns an it turned out to be a disaster and they ended up at the bottom of the league with the  1st or 2nd pick in next years draft?  I couldn't live with that. Having a bust and knowing we missexoit on thr 2 studs coming out next year.

[teganslaw]

It seems that Reich did this to get back at Irsay and the Colts, but he might not be  vindictive enough to think that way.  He wants the chance to get a good QB and might already have someone in mind, not necessarily thinking about getting even. 

 

I'm not sure Arizona will take a QB. Kyler Murray could be ready by mid season; until then, they have Colt McCoy who hasn't played too badly. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Why would 30 other GMs try and trade up for the no1 pick? That's just stupid. Even if Fitterer and Poles worked the deal without Ballard's knowledge, that means 1.) Ballard didn't put in an offer or 2.) The offer wasn't near good enough so Poles took the Panthers offer. 

 

If Ballard didn't have confidence to trade up for Young or Stroud, why should we have more confidence in Ballard than Fitterer at this point? Just asking so you don't turn this into a Colts forum Vs Ballard argument.

My thoughts exactly, 30 other GM's weren't trying to trade for the #1 pick. There was only like 3 or 4 teams even mentioned over the last month that would try and trade for that. It was us, Houston, and Carolina mainly. I seriously doubt KC would try and trade for the #1 pick, or would the Bills, Bengals, Eagles, 49ers, I can go on and on. Basically we needed to make a better offer than a 3 or 4 teams and we once again go conservative. Lets just pray that Carolina drafts Levis.

 

I have defended Ballard so much in here that it has made many sick, I have even said you can't count his 1st season than a get sad faces for saying we blew this. Whoopty damn doo. Our record since being 9-6 in 2021 is 4-14-1 and no playoff appearances. If people are happy with that crap show then be happy. I am not and I have been through 1984-1986 and 1991, which many have not.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

My thoughts exactly, 30 other GM's weren't trying to trade for the #1 pick. There was only like 3 or 4 teams even mentioned over the last month that would try and trade for that. It was us, Houston, and Carolina mainly. I seriously doubt KC would try and trade for the #1 pick, or would the Bills, Bengals, Eagles, 49ers, I can go on and on. Basically we needed to make a better offer than a 3 or 4 teams and we once again we go conservative. Lets just pray that Carolina drafts Levis.

 

I have defended Ballard so much in here that it has made many sick, I have even said you can't count his 1st season than a get sad faces for saying we blew this. Whoopty damn doo. Our record since being 9-6 in 2021 is 4-14-1 and no playoff appearances. If people are happy that crap show then be happy. I am not and I have been through 1984-1986 and 1991, which many have not.

There was only two ways I was really going to be happy about what we did. 1.) Have the Bears select a non-QB at 1 or 2.) We trade up for a reasonable price to 1 and take a QB. Everything else I'm neutral/frustrated/annoyed at. This situation is mixture of the first two. It's not as terrible as a massive overpay to 1, but right now it's sorta frustrating just to do nothing as usual. To all the people who said we may have made an offer, Ballard said he preferred to stay put at 4 and he did. He was telling the truth, he's transparent. Their probably was no offer to move up by us. I love draft picks, but this was the one time to be aggressive, now we don't control who we get at the most important position in football.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

Thats what ive been saying. They want Cam Newton 2.0. Frank thinks he can fix him. Hes enamoured with the tools. I started thinking more about it after they got rid of DJ Moore. Yes they can get another WR but why would you get rid of your #1 receiver if your offense is being built around a passing QB? Prlbably bc he knows the majority of their offense is going to be based on Run The Darn Ball and play action. And Richardson is the main piece. Carolina has had offenses like this under John Fox and similar stuff with Cam Newton. They can even have Cam stop buy and help with Richardsons development. Carolina can say to Frank "Hey this is what we did to help Cam improve. Why dont you do this?.

I really think this is a plan to get Lamar. I cannot see a team giving  this much for a guy like Richardson.  Carolina actually has a pretty good than  minus a qb. I don't know why they would trade up this high to get a guy who probably can't play for at least a year. Just doesn't wash for me.

[Goatface Killah]

I think its pretty obvious there wasnt much of a trade market for the number 1 pick, otherwise, why would the Bears pull the trigger this early?

 

If there was any real market for the pick, they would drag this out much closer to draft time and try to maximize their return.

 

And if the Colts were ever interested, they would have tried to pit us and Carolina against each other and create a bidding war leading up to the draft.

 

That tells me it was just never in the cards, which means they were always going to go another direction. 

 

 

 

[RollerColt]

7 minutes ago, teganslaw said:

It seems that Reich did this to get back at Irsay and the Colts, but he might not be  vindictive enough to think that way.  He wants the chance to get a good QB and might already have someone in mind, not necessarily thinking about getting even. 

 

I'm not sure Arizona will take a QB. Kyler Murray could be ready by mid season; until then, they have Colt McCoy who hasn't played too badly. 

AZ will probably trade back, even though they have a glaring need for a defensive lineman with Watt retired.

[JColts72]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

My thoughts exactly, 30 other GM's weren't trying to trade for the #1 pick. There was only like 3 or 4 teams even mentioned over the last month that would try and trade for that. It was us, Houston, and Carolina mainly. I seriously doubt KC would try and trade for the #1 pick, or would the Bills, Bengals, Eagles, 49ers, I can go on and on. Basically we needed to make a better offer than a 3 or 4 teams and we once again go conservative. Lets just pray that Carolina drafts Levis.

 

I have defended Ballard so much in here that it has made many sick, I have even said you can't count his 1st season than a get sad faces for saying we blew this. Whoopty damn doo. Our record since being 9-6 in 2021 is 4-14-1 and no playoff appearances. If people are happy with that crap show then be happy. I am not and I have been through 1984-1986 and 1991, which many have not.

I have been fan since 1972. 1978 until 1987 was no picnic especially with horrible draft picks, QBs, not counting injured Jones, and bad hires. Ron Meyer was not bad though.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

I have been fan since 1972. 1978 until 1987 was no picnic especially with horrible draft picks, QBs, not counting injured Jones, and bad hires. Ron Meyer was not bad though.

Ron Meyer was decent, then we got Dickerson. 1987 was a great year winning the AFC East. 

[Moosejawcolt]

18 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

I think Lamar is the one that has to accept offer from a certain team then ravens have to match or get picks. But again I’m not 100% sure how it all works. But I have a feeling unless we offer Lamar watson type contract ravens would match it anyway

My understanding  is that the team  makes the offer and if Baltimore refuses, the team gives up 2 first rounders but that can be negotiated. Of  course Lamar has power to as he can say I am not going to sign a contract with that team. There is so much going on behind the scenes we r just privy to a snip it. I  truly beleive that  Carolina made this move to get  Lamar and not a rookie. They are in win now mode.  I just think this is a lot to give up for one of the rookie qbs. Now of Carolina gets Lamar, those picks they  gave up font look as bad as they get pushed back as Carolina is probably drafting late in next years draft. If Carolina is giving this up for  Richardson that is beyond. To me u never give up this much capital based on upside.

[chad72]

Seems like I’m seeing the whole spectrum of emotions - from blasting Frank to blasting Ballard to blasting Frank’s beliefs. You just have to let things play out. Ballard typically waits until free agency begins to do his trades. Let the Colts make their moves and we will see where they stand before the draft.

[Crush22]

Lamar has missed 10 games in the last 2 years.

No thanks.

[Crunked]

Lot of emotions in this thread, as a Colts fan I feel alot of them too.....but lets just breathe for a moment and consider things we knew PRIOR to Carolina's jumping to #1. First of all we knew the Bears had the #1 pick and didnt need a QB. We all knew because of this they were willing to entertain what they felt was THE BEST OFFER to trade out of #1. As it turns out We now know that to beat THE BEST OFFER we would have to give up 2(1's) 1 (2) 1 (3) our #1WR and (something else) to have bested the Panthers......There IS NOT A QB in this draft class worth that (not a single one)............so rationally our best response should be (relief, laughter......and maybe a few thankful prayers) that our GM didnt try to best that ridiculousness........

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, chad72 said:

Seems like I’m seeing the whole spectrum of emotions - from blasting Frank to blasting Ballard to blasting Frank’s beliefs. You just have to let things play out. Ballard typically waits until free agency begins to do his trades. Let the Colts make their moves and we will see where they stand before the draft.

As it it stands now, if Carolina is smart they will take either Stroud or Young, that leaves one or the other for Houston and there is nothing we can do about it. It is like playing Chess and you know you are screwed because someone has their Queen and Rook and all you have is a Rook left. Helpless in the end game. Only way that can save this is if for some reason, Reich takes Will Levis.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

As it it stands now, if Carolina is smart they will take either Stroud or Young, that leaves one or the other for Houston and there is nothing we can do about it. It is like playing Chess and you know you are screwed because someone has their Queen and Rook and all you have is a Rook left. Helpless in the end game. Only way that can save this is if for some reason, Reich takes Will Levis.

I was going to say, the only thing that can save this is to trade for Lamar Jackson and extend him immediately.

[Fluke_33]

16 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

I. Don't. Want. Levis.

 

Sigh.

You hit for the emoji cycle with this one

 

although I could discount the confusion emoji because it is from JackieDaytona and he gives that emoji to most posts.  Lol

[#12.]

25 minutes ago, Dr. T said:

This is an Old Testament verse and Frank prefers the New Testament.

Here it is: (and remember that it's tattooed on his bicep)

"Be ye strong therefore, and let not your hands be weak: for your work shall be rewarded"

Slightly narcissistic, say ye? 

 

Yes, Old Testament - hardcore.  None of that New Testament, hipee stuff.

[Fluke_33]

16 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah I agree. I hope we go Anderson at 4 (if available) now, and Hooker at 35 (or in a mini trade up). That option I was discussing yesterday is now a possibility.

That’s where I’m at now.  Take Anderson or Carter and trade up from 35 for hooker 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I was going to say, the only thing that can save this is to trade for Lamar Jackson and extend him immediately.

I am all for trading for Lamar, it is 2 1st's, less than what Carolina gave up for the #1 pick. People can say Lamar has been injured and missed a lot of games last year. I think he sat out the last month because he felt he was being done dirty. That is just my opinion because the injury he had only takes 2-3 weeks to heal. Yes, I think he sat out of spite because he wants out of Baltimore. He would be great here and has experience + he is a former MVP. He is only 26 years old as well. He and Taylor would be deadly together.

[krunk]

26 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I really think this is a plan to get Lamar. I cannot see a team giving  this much for a guy like Richardson.  Carolina actually has a pretty good than  minus a qb. I don't know why they would trade up this high to get a guy who probably can't play for at least a year. Just doesn't wash for me.

I can see it bc the scheme that Frank wants is based on a move QB more than it is a pocket passer. That changes the priority for the skills you value at QB. Franks looking for a Jalen Hurts type he can use as a runner in his RPO, play action offense. Franks not looking for a pocket passer. He wants to emphasize the ground game. Richardsons unique skill set works well in that setting. The quarterback needs to fit what you are seeking to do as an offense.  Theres not that many move Quarterbacks in this draft like Richardson. Levis either for that matter.

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

As it it stands now, if Carolina is smart they will take either Stroud or Young, that leaves one or the other for Houston and there is nothing we can do about it. It is like playing Chess and you know you are screwed because someone has their Queen and Rook and all you have is a Rook left. Helpless in the end game. Only way that can save this is if for some reason, Reich takes Will Levis.

The reason we got Steichen is his ability to win with any style of QB. I can bet he wins with AR or with Levis. The doom and gloom if we miss out on Stroud and Young is a bit premature, IMO.

I’m higher on AR than Levis and I definitely feel our options go up IF we move to No.3.

 

[MikeCurtis]

16 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Someone will jump the colts and pick AR15 at #3 I'm predicting. Even if the colts have the choice I predict the colts.select Levis over AR15.....Levis has always seemed to me a a colt type selection.. It remains to be seen of course if that's a good thing or not, as will the other QBs.

I think you are 100% right.  
Then you have to think Levis or Anderson

 

IMHO.   You pick Anderson