Two Big Fish off the Market

[Scott Pennock]

So many of you thought like a Madden GM and thought we had a chance......lol

 

The Broncos gave up 2 1st Round Picks, 2 2nd Round Picks, a 5th Round Pick and 3 players....for Russell Wilson and a 4th Round pick.

 

Aaron Rodgers re-signed with the Packers too.....

 

There was ZERO chance in h*ll that the Colts would have been able to match that without ALL of you losing your crap......

 

Now that those two are off the market I wonder where everyone will focus their attentions on now!??!

[Smonroe]

If the Broncos win the SB, do you think any of their fans will care about losing those picks?

 

As I said in another thread, I want all those people who told me Wilson wasn't going to be traded to tell me that Carr won't be traded.  They seem very sure of themselves.

 

 

[AKB]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

If the Broncos win the SB, do you think any of their fans will care about losing those picks?

 

As I said in another thread, I want all those people who told me Wilson wasn't going to be traded to tell me that Carr won't be traded.  They seem very sure of themselves.

 

 

but what if they don't win a SB and remain average?  then will it matter.  goes both ways

[ChuggaBeer]

Just now, Smonroe said:

If the Broncos win the SB, do you think any of their fans will care about losing those picks?

 

As I said in another thread, I want all those people who told me Wilson wasn't going to be traded to tell me that Carr won't be traded.  They seem very sure of themselves.

 

 

I guess I don't know of people saying he wouldn't be traded as much as he wasn't getting traded to the Colts.   So maybe I missed something 

[runthepost]

2023 first 2024 first

2022 2nd 2024 2nd

2023 3rd

Kelly, and Glover then you trade Wentz off to Washington

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, ChuggaBeer said:

I guess I don't know of people saying he wouldn't be traded as much as he wasn't getting traded to the Colts.   So maybe I missed something 

 

A lot of people said he was happy in Seattle and was staying.

 

Others told me that his wife said they would only move to a team on the coast.  Of course, someone here is going to say Denver is on the coast, so I may stand corrected.

1 minute ago, runthepost said:

2023 first 2024 first

2022 2nd 2024 2nd

2023 3rd

Kelly, and Glover then you trade Wentz off to Washington

 

For???

[runthepost]

2 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

A lot of people said he was happy in Seattle and was staying.

 

Others told me that his wife said they would only move to a team on the coast.  Of course, someone here is going to say Denver is on the coast, so I may stand corrected.

 

For???

Wilson but it doesn’t matter anymore 

[Scott Pennock]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

If the Broncos win the SB, do you think any of their fans will care about losing those picks?

 

As I said in another thread, I want all those people who told me Wilson wasn't going to be traded to tell me that Carr won't be traded.  They seem very sure of themselves.

 

 

I'm not one of them.....Carr or Trubisky is whom I've realistically thought of as our next QB IF we moved on from Wentz.

As far as giving up the draft capital needed for RW is too much considering the long term needs the Colts have at LT, WR, DE, TE and DB.....

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, runthepost said:

Wilson but it doesn’t matter anymore 

 

I wouldn't complain if they gave 2022's 2nd and 2023's first for Carr.

[ChuggaBeer]

Just now, Smonroe said:

 

I wouldn't complain if they gave 2022's 2nd and 2023's first for Carr.

TBH. I wouldn't be mad if we traded Wentz for a 2023 1st    And even our 2nd+ for a 2023 1st 

Use FA on a few needs and go get who we want next yr 

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

I'm not one of them.....Carr or Trubisky is whom I've realistically thought of as our next QB IF we moved on from Wentz.

As far as giving up the draft capital needed for RW is too much considering the long term needs the Colts have at LT, WR, DE, TE and DB.....

 

I hear you, but as we all know, a really good QB solves a lot of problem.  We definitely need to shore up LT and DE, and that can be done with FA's (possibly including Fisher).

 

I'd rather have a franchise QB and be a true contender than saving money and draft capital to be slightly above average every year.

 

I wish the Colts could have done a deal with the Raiders before the Wilson deal was done.  Between what the Rams did last year and the Wilson deal, it's clear that teams are not afraid to sacrifice the future for the present.  Look out for Washington giving up the farm for Carr.

[CR91]

Why would Russ wanna go to Denver? He had a no trade clause so he had to approve it. Now he has to play Mahomes, Herbert, and Carr twice. That's rough

[cdgacoltsfan]

Chris Ballard making difference making moves via draft or free agency ( Chris is in lime green shirt):

[runthepost]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Why would Russ wanna go to Denver? He had a no trade clause so he had to approve it. Now he has to play Mahomes, Herbert, and Carr twice. That's rough

Denver is a good place to live at 

[Scott Pennock]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

I hear you, but as we all know, a really good QB solves a lot of problem.  We definitely need to shore up LT and DE, and that can be done with FA's (possibly including Fisher).

 

I'd rather have a franchise QB and be a true contender than saving money and draft capital to be slightly above average every year.

 

I wish the Colts could have done a deal with the Raiders before the Wilson deal was done.  Between what the Rams did last year and the Wilson deal, it's clear that teams are not afraid to sacrifice the future for the present.  Look out for Washington giving up the farm for Carr.

I hear you too! The Lions/Rams trade I think is an outlier though as the Lions GM wanted Goff as he helped draft him to the Rams.

 

As far as Carr goes, I would give up picks but not full on kill the next 2-3 years worth. The problem is what will the actual cost be?

 

That's where I kinda fell on Trubisky and the results of his 2nd-4th years plus the year of learning with the Bills. Number 1 worthy pick in the draft, no, capable of leading a team into the playoffs and win games with his arm and his legs, yes. Bonus factor is that he only costs money. 

[philba101]

22 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

but what if they don't win a SB and remain average?  then will it matter.  goes both ways

Once Wilson puts on a Broncos uniform, I doubt the Broncos or their fans will be longing for the days of Drew Lock ever again. The wealth of picks will be debated for sure but only if Wilson does not work out in Denver.

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, Scott Pennock said:

I hear you too! The Lions/Rams trade I think is an outlier though as the Lions GM wanted Goff as he helped draft him to the Rams.

 

As far as Carr goes, I would give up picks but not full on kill the next 2-3 years worth. The problem is what will the actual cost be?

 

That's where I kinda fell on Trubisky and the results of his 2nd-4th years plus the year of learning with the Bills. Number 1 worthy pick in the draft, no, capable of leading a team into the playoffs and win games with his arm and his legs, yes. Bonus factor is that he only costs money. 

 

Well, the Wilson deal kind of proves that the Rams trade wasn't an outlier.  More like a formula for winning.  Yes, a risky one, but wouldn't you rather have your team "push all the chips in" than counting the chips on the sidelines?

 

I won't argue that Carr is worth that type of capital, but I think it's going to take a deal similar to that.  Precedent has been set.

 

It will not surprise me a bit if he's wearing a Commanders uniform this year.  And that the Raiders are smiling about it.  They'd pick up Jimmy G and a bunch of draft picks and would probably be contenders with that defense.

[coltsva]

41 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

A lot of people said he was happy in Seattle and was staying.

 

Others told me that his wife said they would only move to a team on the coast.  Of course, someone here is going to say Denver is on the coast, so I may stand corrected.

 

For???

Well done!

[ShuteAt168]

You solve the QB problem first and worry about picks later. The picks may amount to nothing anyway. Last year’s Ballard draft produced 

all of 4.5 sacks, 37 tackles and 132 receiving yards and nine rushing yards. The whole draft! Paye is solid but do any of our 2021 picks look like All Pros you wouldn’t give up for an elite QB? Ballard screwed up by apparently negotiating against himself and giving up way too much for Wentz. Great locker room culture though! Ballard is 41-40. 

 

2021 Draft Production 
Paye 4 sacks 32 tackles 

Odeyingbo .5 sacks 5 tackles 

Granson 11-106 

Ehlinger 9 rushing yards 

Strachan 2-26 

 

[Nesjan3]

Ballard misses again, or did he even swing? Clearly Wilson has been available for a long time. Too expensive for his taste I assume just like Stafford was. Look at the Rams now. Ballard needs to switch it up.

[ChuggaBeer]

Just now, Nesjan3 said:

Ballard misses again, or did he even swing? Clearly Wilson has been available for a long time. Too expensive for his taste I assume just like Stafford was. Look at the Rams now. Ballard needs to switch it up.

OR.  Wilson said the only place I will go is Denver      

 

There's that option Which makes a lot more sense than Ballard missed again

[Nesjan3]

Just now, ChuggaBeer said:

OR.  Wilson said the only place I will go is Denver      

 

There's that option Which makes a lot more sense than Ballard missed again

Riiigght I get it, people will forever defend there team and the horseshoe including coaches and GM's even it means pulling out every excuse possible to make light of things going bad. 

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, AustinnKaine said:

but what if they don't win a SB and remain average?  then will it matter.  goes both ways

 

So, are you saying you don't want to push all your chips in?  How dare you!

[ChuggaBeer]

2 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Riiigght I get it, people will forever defend there team and the horseshoe including coaches and GM's even it means pulling out every excuse possible to make light of things going bad. 

Well Washington got turned down.   So it seems my angle could be correct 

[Four2itus]

12 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Well Washington got turned down.   So it seems my angle could be correct 

Never get in the line of sight of a fan who feels they are wronged. The fact that the Colts don't have two first and second round picks will not deter them from spraying distaste. 

[danlhart87]

14 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

So, are you saying you don't want to push all your chips in?  How dare you!

Stop saying chips

 

Making me hungry

 

[Blueblood23]

51 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

You solve the QB problem first and worry about picks later. The picks may amount to nothing anyway. Last year’s Ballard draft produced 

all of 4.5 sacks, 37 tackles and 132 receiving yards and nine rushing yards. The whole draft! Paye is solid but do any of our 2021 picks look like All Pros you wouldn’t give up for an elite QB? Ballard screwed up by apparently negotiating against himself and giving up way too much for Wentz. Great locker room culture though! Ballard is 41-40. 

 

2021 Draft Production 
Paye 4 sacks 32 tackles 

Odeyingbo .5 sacks 5 tackles 

Granson 11-106 

Ehlinger 9 rushing yards 

Strachan 2-26 

 

Looks like the Colts have great scouts. Irsay are you all in?

[Scott Pennock]

2 hours ago, ShuteAt168 said:

You solve the QB problem first and worry about picks later. The picks may amount to nothing anyway. Last year’s Ballard draft produced 

all of 4.5 sacks, 37 tackles and 132 receiving yards and nine rushing yards. The whole draft! Paye is solid but do any of our 2021 picks look like All Pros you wouldn’t give up for an elite QB? Ballard screwed up by apparently negotiating against himself and giving up way too much for Wentz. Great locker room culture though! Ballard is 41-40. 

 

2021 Draft Production 
Paye 4 sacks 32 tackles 

Odeyingbo .5 sacks 5 tackles 

Granson 11-106 

Ehlinger 9 rushing yards 

Strachan 2-26 

 

Once again you (though you are new here) are cherry picking data......you can't just simply count last years draft class and call it a day. You need to take all of his draft classes as a whole and identify the contributors.

 

Secondly, as I have pointed out a hundred times there have been ZERO viable QB options available since Luck's unexpected retirement except for Tom Brady (Would never have signed), Phillip Rivers (Signed and Retired) and Carson Wentz (Currently under contract) outside of trying to draft one in the late first or second round (An even worse crap shoot). Nobody outside of the Rams were getting Stafford last year based off of what the Lions wanted - a viable starting QB option. And the Broncos gave up their top 2 picks for the next two years (and a 5th) plus 2 quality players and a viable young QB option. That is a lot.....

[Myles]

I prefer to go with Wentz.   Just need Reich to get his head out of his butt.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Well, the Wilson deal kind of proves that the Rams trade wasn't an outlier.  More like a formula for winning.  Yes, a risky one, but wouldn't you rather have your team "push all the chips in" than counting the chips on the sidelines?

 

I won't argue that Carr is worth that type of capital, but I think it's going to take a deal similar to that.  Precedent has been set.

 

It will not surprise me a bit if he's wearing a Commanders uniform this year.  And that the Raiders are smiling about it.  They'd pick up Jimmy G and a bunch of draft picks and would probably be contenders with that defense.

 

Carr has been to 1 playoff game in his 5 years, would have been 2 before he went down with his team having a 12-3 record a few years ago. Just goes to show you success is not guaranteed to be repeated, playoffs or SB appearances.

 

RW on the other hand, plenty of playoff appearances plus a SB win. I would think Carr should fetch a close to Stafford like deal with 2 first rounders and a future 2nd or 3rd at best, without netting players, IMO.

 

If the Commanders do get him, they become contenders in the NFC East. Remember, Carr went to Dallas for the Thanksgiving game and took it to them. 

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, Myles said:

I prefer to go with Wentz.   Just need Reich to get his head out of his butt.

 

Well, folks here act like Wentz did absolutely nothing and the Colts won despite Wentz. The home stretch, he lost his marbles, true but he made enough plays for us to win enough games despite a weak pass catching group and a underutilized Hines, not to mention delayed chemistry with his group due to missing enough TC. I said this before, I will say this again. They should give it another go with Wentz with significant improvements in the pass catching department around him, with a good Plan B with Trubisky or Mariota for a backup. At worst, we would be set up with more talent for the next QB if Wentz crashes again.

[ShuteAt168]

42 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Once again you (though you are new here) are cherry picking data......you can't just simply count last years draft class and call it a day. You need to take all of his draft classes as a whole and identify the contributors.

 

Secondly, as I have pointed out a hundred times there have been ZERO viable QB options available since Luck's unexpected retirement except for Tom Brady (Would never have signed), Phillip Rivers (Signed and Retired) and Carson Wentz (Currently under contract) outside of trying to draft one in the late first or second round (An even worse crap shoot). Nobody outside of the Rams were getting Stafford last year based off of what the Lions wanted - a viable starting QB option. And the Broncos gave up their top 2 picks for the next two years (and a 5th) plus 2 quality players and a viable young QB option. That is a lot.....

I see your points. But you say there have been no options and then list Stafford and Wilson and Brady. Is that how you do it—every top-tier guy that goes somewhere else you dismiss as not a viable option? If CB has his 1 this season, maybe he offers up three 1s for Wilson. That may be too rich but Indy could have at least been in the conversation. As is, the overpay on Wentz leaves CB without much ammo. CB blew it on Wentz for whatever reason and I suspect it will eventually cost him his job. Irsay is gonna love draft night, watching all the first round players go elsewhere and just seething that he has Wentz. And Lock stinks. CB: 41-40

[Scott Pennock]

Just now, ShuteAt168 said:

I see your points. But you say there have been no options and then list Stafford and Wilson and Brady. Is that how you do it—every top-tier guy that goes somewhere else you dismiss as not a viable option? If CB has his 1 this season, maybe he offers up three 1s for Wilson. That may be too rich but Indy could have at least been in the conversation. As is, the overpay on Wentz leaves CB without much ammo. CB blew it on Wentz for whatever reason and I suspect it will eventually cost him his job. Irsay is gonna love draft night, watching all the first round players go elsewhere and just seething that he has Wentz. CB: 41-40

No, you are mis-reading what I clearly already stated. We had zero chance at Tome Brady every signing with the Colts. Tampa's offensive skill players were already in the window for contention and their defense was stacked as well. Not too mention "lowering" himself to play for the Colts, his rival for many years,

 

We also had zero shot at Stafford due to the Lions new GM having drafted Goff. So the Lions wanted a viable starter in return for Stafford PLUS picks.......all we had were picks. Was never gonna happen.

 

What do we have to offer Seattle for Wilson (who dropped his no-trade clause to go to Denver)? If we kept our picks and didn't trade for Wentz who would we trade them as part of the 3 starting position players given up, plus the 5 draft picks? 

 

He's not losing his job because both he and Irsay both know Luck's retirement set them back - the fact that we marched out Brissett, an 87 year old Rivers and a mental midget in Wentz the last three years and still have a winning record is a testament to the REST of the decisions Ballard has made with free agency and draft picks. I will restate this point again - since he became the GM there is exactly 1 drafted player not on an NFL Roster  and he was the kid that never had an injury in his life and managed to blow out his knee in mini-camp his rookie season and never recovered.

 

As I said, since his retirement the only two viable, obtainable QBs were Rivers and Wentz......Go back in the draft or free agency and look at who has been available at the end of the first round and see for yourself. With or without Wentz we were never in the running for Wilson either. 

 

In hindsight we can complain about the trade for Wentz, but how is a 3rd and a conditional 1st or 2nd an overpay? Yes, he had a down season after 3 pretty good ones and we know how he played for us.......but, I don't think it was an overpay at all for starting caliber QB. Having said that the trade was all about the Reich connection and I don't think Ballard really and truly believed in it. Just me speculating. They rolled the dice and it didn't produce the results they wanted but that does not make it an overpay unless you're judging it in hindsight. H*ll, Russell Wilson can break his leg in 7 spots game two of the season and have to retire - think that trade will be viewed differently in hindsight?  If Matt Stafford didn't win the Superbowl and lost in the first round of the playoffs, would that trade be judged differently? That is why we should never view these in hindsight - at the time it was the best option. It didn't work. Now you look at new options which is exactly what they are doing because exactly zero front office personnel have stated that Wentz is our starter in 2022. That lack of endorsement tells me they are trying to make a change!

[ShuteAt168]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

No, you are mis-reading what I clearly already stated. We had zero chance at Tome Brady every signing with the Colts. Tampa's offensive skill players were already in the window for contention and their defense was stacked as well. Not too mention "lowering" himself to play for the Colts, his rival for many years,

 

We also had zero shot at Stafford due to the Lions new GM having drafted Goff. So the Lions wanted a viable starter in return for Stafford PLUS picks.......all we had were picks. Was never gonna happen.

 

What do we have to offer Seattle for Wilson (who dropped his no-trade clause to go to Denver)? If we kept our picks and didn't trade for Wentz who would we trade them as part of the 3 starting position players given up, plus the 5 draft picks? 

 

He's not losing his job because both he and Irsay both know Luck's retirement set them back - the fact that we marched out Brissett, an 87 year old Rivers and a mental midget in Wentz the last three years and still have a winning record is a testament to the REST of the decisions Ballard has made with free agency and draft picks. I will restate this point again - since he became the GM there is exactly 1 drafted player not on an NFL Roster  and he was the kid that never had an injury in his life and managed to blow out his knee in mini-camp his rookie season and never recovered.

 

As I said, since his retirement the only two viable, obtainable QBs were Rivers and Wentz......Go back in the draft or free agency and look at who has been available at the end of the first round and see for yourself. With or without Wentz we were never in the running for Wilson either. 

 

In hindsight we can complain about the trade for Wentz, but how is a 3rd and a conditional 1st or 2nd an overpay? Yes, he had a down season after 3 pretty good ones and we know how he played for us.......but, I don't think it was an overpay at all for starting caliber QB. Having said that the trade was all about the Reich connection and I don't think Ballard really and truly believed in it. Just me speculating. They rolled the dice and it didn't produce the results they wanted but that does not make it an overpay unless you're judging it in hindsight. H*ll, Russell Wilson can break his leg in 7 spots game two of the season and have to retire - think that trade will be viewed differently in hindsight?  If Matt Stafford didn't win the Superbowl and lost in the first round of the playoffs, would that trade be judged differently? That is why we should never view these in hindsight - at the time it was the best option. It didn't work. Now you look at new options which is exactly what they are doing because exactly zero front office personnel have stated that Wentz is our starter in 2022. That lack of endorsement tells me they are trying to make a change!

I don’t agree with all that but well said and good discussion. Thanks! 

[Scott Pennock]

43 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

I don’t agree with all that but well said and good discussion. Thanks! 

Beauty of being an adult, we don't have to agree on everything!

[Four2itus]

2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

In hindsight we can complain about the trade for Wentz, but how is a 3rd and a conditional 1st or 2nd an overpay? Yes, he had a down season after 3 pretty good ones and we know how he played for us.......but, I don't think it was an overpay at all for starting caliber QB.

Exactly. 

[smittywerb]

I agree, anyone thinking we were getting one of those qbs were fooling themselves.  Winston has been my pick since FA began.  If we have to trade for qb then I don’t want him because I knew what the asking prices were going to be.  
 

either stick with wentz or sign Winston.  Carr was the only reasonable qb I could see us trading for but Rodgers, Wilson, and Watson are definitely out of our price range

[NewColtsFan]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:04 AM, CR91 said:

Why would Russ wanna go to Denver? He had a no trade clause so he had to approve it. Now he has to play Mahomes, Herbert, and Carr twice. That's rough

Beautiful city.   Mostly liberal state. 

Great fan support. 

 

Very good and deep roster missing only a QB. 

 

Best chance to join a team ready to make a deep playoff run.   See Brady and Manning. 

 

Not far away from any place on the West Coast. 

[CR91]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Beautiful city.   Mostly liberal state. 

Great fan support. 

 

Very good and deep roster missing only a QB. 

 

Best chance to join a team ready to make a deep playoff run.   See Brady and Manning. 

 

Not far away from any place on the West Coast. 

 

The broncos aren't exactly a QB away from winning a championship especially in a division that is going to be extremely competitive for the foreseeable future.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

The broncos aren't exactly a QB away from winning a championship especially in a division that is going to be extremely competitive for the foreseeable future.

That’s your view…. 
 

I’ve written this for over a month and posters like you have been downplaying this…
 

The NFL media has been writing this for weeks and you don’t want to believe. 
 

The deal has now actually happened and you’re STILL in denial.   No one is saying Denver is the new AFC favorite.  But they are dramatically better and have a much better shot at making a deep run.    As a fan, you can’t ask for more.  

The Colts are still trying to build our roster.  We’re not there yet.   Maybe someday soon.