We Don’t Have Very Good Players/Who should go? (merge)

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

move up for jones or fields, if it doesnt work then take someone else in the draft later

 

this actually looks better in hindsight, we went nowhere anyway.  Its what i would have done, carson was off my list.  too much baggage and i think hes qb purgatory 

 

what do you do if CW doesnt work out?  thats sets the team back for years

Nobody here advocated trading up for Mac Jones.  There is no reason to think that Fields will be any better than Wentz.  The trade up for Fields would have cost the same capital as the Wentz trade, at least.

 

We did take a QB later.  Ehlinger.   Who else should have been taken later than round 1?  Davis Mills?

 

I would have traded less capital for Andy Dalton.   

[Nesjan3]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

If we pay him 20+ mil we’re going to be stuck in mediocre hell for years in my opinion and I say that with Nelson being one of my favorite Colts!

 

Ballard has put us in a REALLY bad situation - up against the cap but not good enough to win and not bad enough to get high draftpicks. 

Move him to LT, Reed and Glow at G. Problem solved.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

move up for jones or fields, if it doesnt work then take someone else in the draft later

 

this actually looks better in hindsight, we went nowhere anyway.  Its what i would have done, carson was off my list.  too much baggage and i think hes qb purgatory 

 

what do you do if CW doesnt work out?  thats sets the team back for years

You can’t wait to the draft and only have Eason. Colts might not of even win a bidding war with the bears or pats. Agents get involved in these things and Ir isn’t as easy as just moving up. 
 

Now in saying that maybe the mistake was rivers. Maybe Jacoby should of been brought back so we would tank.  Once we had no vet in the roster last season as a possible stop gap we had to sign Wentz and couldn’t wait until the draft.

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Nobody here advocated trading up for Mac Jones.  There is no reason to think that Fields will be any better than Wentz.  The trade up for Fields would have cost the same capital as the Wentz trade, at least.

 

We did take a QB later.  Ehlinger.   Who else should have been taken later than round 1?  Davis Mills?

 

I would have traded less capital for Andy Dalton.   

Davis Mills might be a better QB than Wentz as soon as next year. He surely finished the year much better than Wentz. 

 

We might have the 5th best QB in the division next year. 

[BlackTiger]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Nobody here advocated trading up for Mac Jones.

i wanted jones, dont really care what the rest of the board said about him

 

that is not a good argument for you to lead with at all.  that means nothing to me, we should have gone after him

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, Nesjan3 said:

Move him to LT, Reed and Glow at G. Problem solved.

If he wants 20 mil he has to switch to LT. Paying a guard that kind of money is insanity. 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

LA didn’t have to trade out. Giants and Lyons were ahead of them and didn’t take a QB. BuT we also know had colts been interested giants or lions would of called LA and leveraged us against them. LA then would of had to move up from 6 since they had the higher pick they probably would of win a bidding war. It’s all hindsight because we don’t  know if colts contacted lions or giants or not.

Right, nobody knows what happened.  But LAC needed a QB and they are not moving out for draft picks.

 

That was the pre-draft year that Tua was considered a better pick than Herbert, and we were supposedly all hot for Love.

 

The QB pickins have been pretty slim.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

i wanted jones, dont really care what the rest of the board said about him

 

that is not a good argument for you to lead with at all.  

Agree, doesn't matter what we wanted. It matters what the GM and coach would have wanted. From the rumors before the draft and from the videos they posted on their pre-draft process it seems like they really liked Lance and Fields. 

[Jackie Daytona]

13 hours ago, colts89 said:

Hopefully this doesn't upset many, but I don't see how Kenny Moore is a Pro Bowler at all. He has moments and a few good games, but there have been plenty of other games where he is targeted badly. Inconsistent at best.

If you look closer.  Kenny sucks in games where the talent around him in the backfield is out, and he's surrounded by practice squad or street free agent DBs.

[BlackTiger]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

You can’t wait to the draft and only have Eason

where did this come from?  yes we could have

 

teams do stuff like that, it might have been tough to land MJ.  we went no where anyway though.  i just dont believe in carson so i would have gone that route

[Jackie Daytona]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

i wanted jones, dont really care what the rest of the board said about him

 

that is not a good argument for you to lead with at all.  that means nothing to me, we should have gone after him

No one thought he'd be a franchise QB, well, at least not near the sure thing he was year one.  I'm still not sure his ceiling is much more than what he was this year.

[Nesjan3]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

If he wants 20 mil he has to switch to LT. Paying a guard that kind of money is insanity. 

That much for a G is absurd

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Right, nobody knows what happened.  But LAC needed a QB and they are not moving out for draft picks.

 

That was the pre-draft year that Tua was considered a better pick than Herbert, and we were supposedly all hot for Love.

 

The QB pickins have been pretty slim.

Your missing my point. LA didn’t need to move out. They would of had to move up if colts had tried to move up.

[DougDew]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

Your missing my point. LA didn’t need to move out. They would of had to move up if colts had tried to move up.

You;re missing my point.  No way would we have gotten Herbert no matter what we tried.  LAC would have beaten us in what ever scenario there was.  Herbert was not an option for Ballard.

[jbaron04]

59 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Sometimes those relationships are beneficial (Justin Houston), but other times they can be detrimental. I would say that the relationship with Rivers was a good thing. It gave them really good QB play at a decent price without any future gtd money. 

 

Really thought they would have went Rivers + developing rookie to fix QB. The Wentz situation threw a wrench in all of that.

I’m just saying Brady still has some arm strength which killed us with rivers down the stretch , 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, BlackTiger said:

where did this come from?  yes we could have

 

teams do stuff like that, it might have been tough to land him.  we went no where anyway though.  i just dont believe in carson so i would have gone that route

What if chicago or pats then outbid us then we are stuck with Eason. Now saying that that  they could of tried to get a more bridge QB like  Foles so they had a backup plan had they not been able to move up. 

[BlackTiger]

5 minutes ago, SchlicterSZN said:

No one thought he'd be a franchise QB

yes i did!.  so did NE and they used a high pick on him

 

im an alabama fan(family is from there)  i really did want jones and this isnt hindsight 

 

fans not wanting him is not an argument

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, DougDew said:

You;re missing my point.  No way would we have gotten Herbert no matter what we tried.  LAC would have beaten us in what ever scenario there was.  Herbert was not an option for Ballard.

I know. But you kept saying La would have to move out or give up Herbert. That wouldn’t of been the case.

[jbaron04]

37 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Kelly would have a cap hit of 10M and only save 1M. 2023 would be the year to let him go. He probably stays, but I think he is drastically declining.

Yea your right about the cap hit which forces us to keep him another year , half full we can develop Pinter for another year to see what he really is 

[BlackTiger]

3 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

What if chicago or pats then outbid us then we are stuck with Eason

we look at other rookies or a bridge like you said.  I'll repeat that CW would have not been on my list period, i dont like the baggage and i think he is the wrong guy to take us through the playoffs 

[Les Poulains]

13 hours ago, tvturner said:

4 years ago we picked Quenton and everyone loved it because it finally kept Luck upright

 

Fast forward to now and people are bashing him because we have an erratic QB under center and that's somehow his fault?

 

Obviously they need a WR, an edge, and a LT but none of that matters if the guy in control can't do the job. This team's roster starts with QB and the QB they picked didn't get it done.

 

Andrew did it.

Philip did it.

Carson could not.

 

 

 

 

People love Nelson, and rightfully so, until you have to pay him an insane salary for an interior offensive lineman, and your franchise is no closer to getting anywhere in the playoffs.

 

So naturally, you have to start asking questions about how worth it it is to do that. Should he move to tackle so his salary is more justified? Should we trade him for picks? Those are all questions that should be studied at this point. That's natural.

[DougDew]

17 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

i wanted jones, dont really care what the rest of the board said about him

 

that is not a good argument for you to lead with at all.  that means nothing to me, we should have gone after him

Hindsight?

 

Ballard already signed Wentz.  He wasn't trading up for Jones.

 

So you wanted to not sign a vet, enter the draft with Eason as the only QB, (BTW, who was thought to be possible starting material in 2 years) then target Jones in a trade up from 22?

 

Or hoped that he fell to 22 and that the rumors that SF wanted him at #3 were false?

 

Not knowing that SF wasn't taking him at 3, as the draft started, you would have had to trade up from pick 22 to pick 2 to secure Jones.  I doubt that you expressed that.

 

And as the draft unfolded, you would have had to trade up to 14 or above to get Jones.  

 

 

 

[BlackTiger]

Just now, DougDew said:

And as the draft unfolded, you would have had to trade up to 14 or above to get Jones.  

 

yeah and im ok with that.  i would not have gone after CW in the first place.  we spent a first and a third on carson and a lot of money

 

He just isnt the guy imo, I dont think we can get far with him.  I wanted to go younger and give the rookie time.  In hindsight ill say it wouldnt have mattered if we could not land jones, we went nowhere anyway

[BlackTiger]

this is coming down to whether you think we can get anywhere with wentz or not

 

I dont so i would have taken my chances elsewhere.  i dont like where we are now 

[lollygagger8]

I think Hines was vastly overpaid. He fumbles waaaay too much/isn't good at PR. He runs scared while at RB, and gets forced up the middle by frank way too often (being used incorrectly). I have been wanting him lined up on the line as a WR for 2 years now. 

 

I think Grover Stewart was massively overpaid as well. Esp for his 1 sack production. 

 

Also, this was an alarming stat I heard on the radio this morning. Colts are the only team in the League w/o a 2nd WR to have over 400 yards. That's pathetic!!! 

 

[shasta519]

44 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Specifically last spring, not in general.

 

We're sitting with the 22nd pick in the draft......only Eason on the roster......what do you do?

 

How do you know that you are going to get a viable starting QB for the upcoming season  by relying upon the draft?

 

You HAVE TO sign a vet.    Ballard and Frank wanted Stafford.   Then Wentz, Trubisky, Dalton, Darnold?

 

Lest not make it sound like Frank wanted Wentz from the beginning and had to convince Ballard that he was the best option.

 

How do you think it played out then? Reich has even said that he started thinking about Wentz as the QB near the end of the 2020 but didn't know if it would necessarily happen.

 

But right after the 2020 season, Wentz's agent told Howie Roseman that Wentz wanted a trade. Roseman said he wasn't sure at that time, but he gave the agent permission to seek out trade partners to see what the market looked like.

 

Wentz's agent's first call was to Reich.

 

And on a "With the Next Pick" episode that is titled "Deep Conviction," Ballard said that when they knew Wentz was available, they knew wanted him. He also said they started negotiating with PHI about a month before the trade, which would be mid-January, likely very shortly after Reich got the call.

 

There was basically week between the WC loss to BUF (the official beginning of their offseason) and when those trade negotiations likely started. 

 

They even hired Press Taylor, Wentz's good friend and confidant, in late January, It was actually two days before the Stafford trade was announced and it was a day after Irsay made his comment about "veteran vision."

 

I don't know what other way to look at it. Wentz was the top priority and Reich was the catalyst for that. 

 

 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

How do you think it played out then? Reich has even said that he started thinking about Wentz as the QB near the end of the 2020 but didn't know if it would necessarily happen.

 

But right after the 2020 season, Wentz's agent told Howie Roseman that Wentz wanted a trade. Roseman said he wasn't sure at that time, but he gave the agent permission to seek out trade partners to see what the market looked like.

 

Wentz's agent's first call was to Reich.

 

And on a "With the Next Pick" episode that is titled "Deep Conviction," Ballard said that when they knew Wentz was available, they knew wanted him. He also said they started negotiating with PHI about a month before the trade, which would be mid-January, likely very shortly after Reich got the call.

 

There was basically week between the WC loss to BUF (the official beginning of their offseason) and when those trade negotiations likely started. 

 

They even hired Press Taylor, Wentz's good friend and confidant, in late January, It was actually two days before the Stafford trade was announced and it was a day after Irsay made his comment about "veteran vision."

 

I don't know what other way to look at it. Wentz was the top priority and Reich was the catalyst for that. 

 

 

There is also the rumor that Ballard liked Wentz in the draft.

 

There is and was a logical mutual attraction between Reich and Wentz, but most of these comments want to blame Reich for Wentz being here, like Ballard held his nose and signed off on the deal, when Ballard was right there thinking that Wentz was the best option for the team.

 

People blame Frank.  That's just internet piling on, IMO.

[coltsva]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Davis Mills might be a better QB than Wentz as soon as next year. He surely finished the year much better than Wentz. 

 

We might have the 5th best QB in the division next year. 

He already is better than CW.

[#12.]

If in addition to the best running game in the league, one of the best O-lines and a defense that produces a ridiculous amount of turnovers your QB needs all pros at every skilled positions in order to win, you should probably just be thinking about changing the QB.  That's easier than trying to build an all pro team around him.  

 

Like Ballard said, when you don't have the guy, you have to keep throwing darts.  

 

 

[Les Poulains]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

I think Hines was vastly overpaid. He fumbles waaaay too much/isn't good at PR. He runs scared while at RB, and gets forced up the middle by frank way too often (being used incorrectly). I have been wanting him lined up on the line as a WR for 2 years now. 

 

I think Grover Stewart was massively overpaid as well. Esp for his 1 sack production. 

 

Also, this was an alarming stat I heard on the radio this morning. Colts are the only team in the League w/o a 2nd WR to have over 400 yards. That's pathetic!!! 

 

Hines is basically your classic third down scat back. Not that he's bad or anything, and he seems like a great guy, but you don’t need to pay or extend those guys.

[shasta519]

31 minutes ago, DougDew said:

There is also the rumor that Ballard liked Wentz in the draft.

 

There is and was a logical mutual attraction between Reich and Wentz, but most of these comments want to blame Reich for Wentz being here, like Ballard held his nose and signed off on the deal, when Ballard was right there thinking that Wentz was the best option for the team.

 

People blame Frank.  That's just internet piling on, IMO.

 

Gotcha. Ballard definitely signed off on it because he too believed in Wentz. I just think Reich was the main catalyst for it because I doubt Wentz is here without Reich being here. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, shasta519 said:

 

Gotcha. Ballard definitely signed off on it because he too believed in Wentz. I just think Reich was the main catalyst for it because I doubt Wentz is here without Reich being here. 

Ballard made it clear that when he was in KC they had their eye on Wentz. He said he ended up going to high and they couldn’t get him.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, coming on strong said:

I been calling Ballard out all year I think his roster is overrated .  Middle of the pack defense with zero pass rush . No weapons in the passing game no game changing corners .  He made a horrible pickup in fisher and gave up the farm for a bust Qb .   I have always said players make the team good not coaches . Look how good pagano was as a dc in Baltimore but when he had no players here his defenses were horrible with the same scheme . 

 

It's not the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's.  That's been my point for a couple years. 

[richard pallo]

18 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

i think our line looked tired.

I think the death of Kelly’s child effected the team dramatically.  Especially the offensive line group.  We all know a locker room is a family.  And a family rallies to support one of their own when tragedy strikes.  A OL depends on concentration and timing as well as their physical attributes.  I don’t think it’s coincidental our OL regressed when he returned for the last two games.  I think they tried but mentally they were all feeling Kelly’s pain and it effected their play, concentration and performance.  One might say they’re professionals but the circumstances here were extremely unusual and painful.  I don’t think it’s effect on the team should be disregarded.

[chad72]

We just weren't meant to make the playoffs, is going to be hard to accept but that is the reality. Just have to move on. There is nothing else I can say. Re-load and come back. Whether we get knocked out the first round of the playoffs or divisional round or don't make the playoffs, only 1 team keeps on moving further till the end. 

 

I just wish we went out kicking and screaming a bit more.

[Never_Quit]

If Nelson wont play LT you trade him while he is still under contract. This isn't a hard decision despite how much I love big Q. When he was out and Reed played in his spot, the line didn't suffer at all. That tells you everything you need to know.

 

If your NFL strategy is to have the leagues highest paid LB, LG, and RB, you're going to have a bad time. They are premium players in non premium positions. I love all three of those guys. I love watching the Colts play in January more. 

 

Edit: I wont hesitate to say that Q completely disappearing on Sunday makes this a bit easier to stomach. 

[CoachLite]

IMO, we don't really know how good the players we have are. Over the years, I never thought the Colts were very good at player development. Still don't. I'm not sure the players know how good they can be, either. We might all agree that they are underperforming and inconsistent.

 

No team can have all #1 Draft players at every position. And even then, there are no perfect players. I think many fans (and coaches, too) give up on players too quickly. Mr. Irsay, on the other hand, may not give up on bad coaching soon enough.

 

That's my impression. BTW, for whatever reasons, keep Andrew Luck retired. The memories are better than the reality at this point in time.

[Nickster]

Bump

[RollerColt]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Bump

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