We Don’t Have Very Good Players/Who should go? (merge)

[shasta519]

25 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

I can’t blame them for wanting wentz what I can blame was the price no other team bid on him . If he held firm we could of gotten him for a third only . A Qb who was the worst in 2020 who has a massive injury history problem . It was to much 

 

I think you can definitely blame them for wanting Wentz. Maybe Reich can't help himself due the relationship he has cultivated with Wentz, but Ballard (and Irsay) still had to give their approval. And Wentz was full of red flags.

 

Ultimately, nobody forced their hand on that trade. Luck retired three offseasons ago. If they truly wanted to go the draft route (at any point), they could have. They had the draft assets, but they used them in other ways. The "Colts had no other choice" is a misguided narrative. 

[coming on strong]

11 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I think you can definitely blame them for wanting Wentz. Maybe Reich can't help himself due the relationship he has cultivated with Wentz, but Ballard (and Irsay) still had to give their approval. And Wentz was full of red flags.

 

Ultimately, nobody forced their hand on that trade. Luck retired three offseasons ago. If they truly wanted to go the draft route (at any point), they could have. They had the draft assets, but they used them in other ways. The "Colts had no other choice" is a misguided narrative. 

They could of did both if they got wentz cheap .  Could of kept the 1st trading down to 14 with it for Mack jones 

[coltfaninnewyork]

Fischer and glow free agents so that works out .Pascal was awful and a free agent so that  works out.Not a player but would love to upgrade D philosophy ,fangio and Zimmer out there 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Your other posts indicate that you seem to have a hate for Frank and Wentz as people.  

 

The truth is that going into the offseason, the only viable QB on the roster was Jacob Eason, so relying upon finding a starting QB in the draft would have been stupid.  Both Ballard and Frank wanted to sign a vet.

 

And the truth is that both Ballard and Frank wanted Stafford first.  Then both wanted Wentz over Dalton, Trubisky, and Foles..

 

 

DD...how would that been stupid? The draft is where you find starting QBs. Eason didn't have to be the only viable QB after that...they could have signed a vet as well. If you can sell your fanbase on Wentz, you can sell your fanbase on a rookie QB developing into a top tier QB.

 

They relied upon their scouting and the draft to build nearly all of this roster. I never understood why QB wasn't exempt from that. Maybe it's just part of the overall roster construction strategy that certainly appears to have some holes in it.

[shasta519]

4 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

They could of did both if they got wentz cheap .  Could of kept the 1st trading down to 14 with it for Mack jones 

 

Sure. But after what happened in PHI, there was no way they were going to bring in a 1st round pick to compete with Wentz. And if you are drafting a QB in the 1st round, why are you rolling the dice on Wentz?

[coming on strong]

15 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Sure. But after what happened in PHI, there was no way they were going to bring in a 1st round pick to compete with Wentz. And if you are drafting a QB in the 1st round, why are you rolling the dice on Wentz?

Insurance policy in case the rookie is a bust . Wentz would have to deal with it . Can’t baby players it doesn’t work . 

[Never_Quit]

11 hours ago, bestQBever said:

Cmon now. What did Patmon do to deserve that? Patmon can stay for another year. Dulin is 50/50. He could be a good 5th receiver. Pascal absolutely needs to go. 

 

Funny, preseason I criticized Pascal as being average to below average and several people on this forum got upset about it. 

 

wth happened to Nyheim Hines? Why did we pay him only to have him disappear? Was he hurt all year?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ballard preaches accountability. If he is honest with himself Eberflus will be gone this week: Brian Baker will also be gone this week.

 

Reich needs to stop surrounding himself with yes men. He needs a fresh voice from the outside that gives him a new perspective. I am mostly talking on offense.

 
When Wentz was back in Phili  the rumors were Wentz didn’t take well to hard coaching. Well then Reich surrounds Wentz with press Taylor who was supposedly at the root of those rumors. He is one of Wentz best friends. There is some validity too would Carson still be  throwing all these shovel passes if he has been held accountable the first time he did it. Seems like they are not coaching him hard enough.

[stitches]

13 hours ago, Nickster said:

In positions that matter.  That’s the bottom line.  Some of us have been saying this for a while.

 

 

I wouldn't say RB or LG or LB don't matter but they certainly matter less than the premier positions and I largely agree with you(I've been one of the people who's been saying a version of what you just mentioned). We have a severe lack of impact players at the most important positions in football. 

 

 

 

 

[jbaron04]

13 hours ago, open window said:

Bad defensive ends no good wide outs, no quality defensive backs and quarterback, not to mention money and draft picks.

I think , fisher and Kelly should be gone , Pinter and Pryor out played them. To be fair our d ends are rookies and we lost Lewis who was having a good year. Letting autry go was a bad move. Rodgers and rock have played solid this year the problem was Kenny Moore , he just doesn’t have the speed to cover the fast quick shifty slot guys. Blackmon can play but always hurt and Willis needs to go, he can’t cover and misses a ton of tackles. The qb situation is what we see but I’ll see what we look like next year

[jbaron04]

58 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I think you can definitely blame them for wanting Wentz. Maybe Reich can't help himself due the relationship he has cultivated with Wentz, but Ballard (and Irsay) still had to give their approval. And Wentz was full of red flags.

 

Ultimately, nobody forced their hand on that trade. Luck retired three offseasons ago. If they truly wanted to go the draft route (at any point), they could have. They had the draft assets, but they used them in other ways. The "Colts had no other choice" is a misguided narrative. 

Franks past relationships is what’s killing us….. Brady was a real option but they went with rivers because of franks relationship with him, they picked fisher over Leno because of ballad’s relationship with him. Carson was a relationship trade. We need to look at tape and football stuff when making these decisions not 4-5 year old past relationships

[jbaron04]

15 minutes ago, Never_Quit said:

 

Funny, preseason I criticized Pascal as being average to below average and several people on this forum got upset about it. 

 

wth happened to Nyheim Hines? Why did we pay him only to have him disappear? Was he hurt all year?

I called out Kenny and people was up in arms lol 

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

I wouldn't say RB or LG or LB don't matter but they certainly matter less than the premier positions and I largely agree with you(I've been one of the people who's been saying a version of what you just mentioned). We have a severe lack of impact players at the most important positions in football. 

 

 

 

 

 

They can prob get Q extended without adding too much to next year, but it's going to be a huge cap hit going forward.

 

Regarding those numbers, IF they released Wentz before the 10th day of the league year and designated him a post-June 1 cut, they would actually $20.8M off that projection.

 

Of course they would have to eat the $7.5M the following year. But that option isn't as unpalatable as I thought at first.

[shasta519]

4 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

Franks past relationships is what’s killing us….. Brady was a real option but they went with rivers because of franks relationship with him, they picked fisher over Leno because of ballad’s relationship with him. Carson was a relationship trade. We need to look at tape and football stuff when making these decisions not 4-5 year old past relationships

 

Sometimes those relationships are beneficial (Justin Houston), but other times they can be detrimental. I would say that the relationship with Rivers was a good thing. It gave them really good QB play at a decent price without any future gtd money. 

 

Really thought they would have went Rivers + developing rookie to fix QB. The Wentz situation threw a wrench in all of that.

[stitches]

15 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

They can prob get Q extended without adding too much to next year, but it's going to be a huge cap hit going forward.

 

Regarding those numbers, IF they released Wentz before the 10th day of the league year and designated him a post-June 1 cut, they would actually $20.8M off that projection.

 

Of course they would have to eat the $7.5M the following year. But that option isn't as unpalatable as I thought at first.

Yeah, I actually was surprised how uncomplicated releasing Wentz would be. Well... if they actually want to do it. IMO they don't and I doubt there would be much better options on the market. 

[Two_pound]

Other than Heyward, Fitzpatrick and Watt, I don't think there is a steeler who could make this Colt team. So, again, I think it's ridiculous that team got into the playoffs and the Colts didn't. This morning on steeler talk they were abusing the wide receivers for how bad they have been all season. Defend the steelers all you want there is nothing there and even their fans and media personnel who cover the team know it. By the way the tie with the lions occurred when the lion kicker missed a chip shot field goal with 1 minute left in overtime. Just like Viniatteri did in 2019, wow the luck of the steelers huh?

[superrep1967]

13 hours ago, IrsaysArmy said:

Here are the Colts that need to be voted off the island:

1. Eric Fisher

2. Jack Doyle

3. Allie Cockss 

4. TY (love you man, it’s over though)

5. Turay

6. Xavier Rhodes

7. Ben Banogu

8. Brian Baker 

Who did I miss. 

 

Pascal

[superrep1967]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yeah, I actually was surprised how uncomplicated releasing Wentz would be. Well... if they actually want to do it. IMO they don't and I doubt there would be much better options on the 

[jbaron04]

12 hours ago, colts89 said:

Hopefully this doesn't upset many, but I don't see how Kenny Moore is a Pro Bowler at all. He has moments and a few good games, but there have been plenty of other games where he is targeted badly. Inconsistent at best.

Your talking all true , I called out Kenny before raiders  game. Like maybe he can play FS for us but he just doesn’t have the speed to play the slot (sorry for image quality had to compress) 

in comparison Rock 26/ Rodgers 38 / Rhodes 41 is how many they have up and I know they didn’t play every game but them guys didn’t get probowl recognition like some guys 

 

[Solid84]

There are definitely players and coaches I don’t want back next season:

 

-Eric Fisher

-Xavier Rhodes

-Brian Baker

-Eberflus

 

But my number one wish for next season is for Frank to give up playcalling. 

[jbaron04]

3 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

Pascal

Kelly 

badgely 

rodrigo 

willis

 

[MPStack]

32 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

I think , fisher and Kelly should be gone , Pinter and Pryor out played them. To be fair our d ends are rookies and we lost Lewis who was having a good year. Letting autry go was a bad move. Rodgers and rock have played solid this year the problem was Kenny Moore , he just doesn’t have the speed to cover the fast quick shifty slot guys. Blackmon can play but always hurt and Willis needs to go, he can’t cover and misses a ton of tackles. The qb situation is what we see but I’ll see what we look like next year

Kelly would have a cap hit of 10M and only save 1M. 2023 would be the year to let him go. He probably stays, but I think he is drastically declining.

[stitches]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

I think you can definitely blame them for wanting Wentz. Maybe Reich can't help himself due the relationship he has cultivated with Wentz, but Ballard (and Irsay) still had to give their approval. And Wentz was full of red flags.

 

Ultimately, nobody forced their hand on that trade. Luck retired three offseasons ago. If they truly wanted to go the draft route (at any point), they could have. They had the draft assets, but they used them in other ways. The "Colts had no other choice" is a misguided narrative. 

I agree on the last part! We had other routes! True, they were more complicated and risky routes, but there were other routes. We just chose one of the easiest paths available. A QB who was out from his team for sure, a QB who had relationship with our HC... It just was easy to plug and play Wentz than to go into the draft without a starting QB and trying to make moves to secure your guy. 

[B~Town]

12 hours ago, Catloaf said:

Everyone's been high and mighty on Dulin and Patmon but they just... don't do anything.  I think it's bias due to them being on the team and more visible, sorta like how we have so many pro bowl players probably because of Hard Knocks.

I have saw teams ps players come in and play better than our number 2 wr this year . The whole wr core need re tooled we need guys who can get open . 

[Flash7]

12 hours ago, tvturner said:

4 years ago we picked Quenton and everyone loved it because it finally kept Luck upright

 

Fast forward to now and people are bashing him because we have an erratic QB under center and that's somehow his fault?

 

Obviously they need a WR, an edge, and a LT but none of that matters if the guy in control can't do the job. This team's roster starts with QB and the QB they picked didn't get it done.

 

Andrew did it.

Philip did it.

Carson could not.

Nobody is bashing Q. Nelson. He's great!

 

But he plays guard and people are questioning the importance of the POSITION vs. other positions of greater value. That's all. The fact that it's Q. Nelson is irrelevant. It could be any other great guard and people would have the same questions. We used a top pick on a guard. Is that a smart decision? That's a fair question to ask.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

DD...how would that been stupid? The draft is where you find starting QBs. Eason didn't have to be the only viable QB after that...they could have signed a vet as well. If you can sell your fanbase on Wentz, you can sell your fanbase on a rookie QB developing into a top tier QB.

 

They relied upon their scouting and the draft to build nearly all of this roster. I never understood why QB wasn't exempt from that. Maybe it's just part of the overall roster construction strategy that certainly appears to have some holes in it.

Specifically last spring, not in general.

 

We're sitting with the 22nd pick in the draft......only Eason on the roster......what do you do?

 

How do you know that you are going to get a viable starting QB for the upcoming season  by relying upon the draft?

 

You HAVE TO sign a vet.    Ballard and Frank wanted Stafford.   Then Wentz, Trubisky, Dalton, Darnold?

 

Lest not make it sound like Frank wanted Wentz from the beginning and had to convince Ballard that he was the best option.

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Kelly would have a cap hit of 10M and only save 1M. 2023 would be the year to let him go. He probably stays, but I think he is drastically declining.

It's also weird how easy he skated by on his mini-Aaron Rodgers routine with Colts media. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Nobody is bashing Q. Nelson. He's great!

 

But he plays guard and people are questioning the importance of the POSITION vs. other positions of greater value. That's all. The fact that it's Q. Nelson is irrelevant. It could be any other great guard and people would have the same questions. We used a top pick on a guard. Is that a smart decision? That's a fair question to ask.

I would probably think about trading Kelly and signing Nelson. Too much leadership I have seen with Nelson this year.

[Nesjan3]

I think if we pay Nelson an absurd contract he should move to LT, he has proved he can play it at a high level and its just a much more premium position. The amount of money he is going to get to play G is nuts, dont care how good of a G he is.

[coming on strong]

43 minutes ago, stitches said:

I wouldn't say RB or LG or LB don't matter but they certainly matter less than the premier positions and I largely agree with you(I've been one of the people who's been saying a version of what you just mentioned). We have a severe lack of impact players at the most important positions in football. 

 

 

 

 

The Buckner trade will back fire on the colts . Buckner is a beast don’t get me wrong but the colts have no Qb by the time we get one Buckner will be old he is already 27 . I would focus solely on getting a Qb first before building the roster can’t have a high draft pick with a good roster . 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, coming on strong said:

I can’t blame them for wanting wentz what I can blame was the price no other team bid on him . If he held firm we could of gotten him for a third only . A Qb who was the worst in 2020 who has a massive injury history problem . It was to much 

Then that negotiated price was purely on Ballard, the GM. 

 

Frank is the current forum whipping-person so now I suppose Frank is responsible for giving up the 1st in addition to being the QB coach, OC god, and HC?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, coming on strong said:

The Buckner trade will back fire on the colts . Buckner is a beast don’t get me wrong but the colts have no Qb by the time we get one Buckner will be old he is already 27 . I would focus solely on getting a Qb first before building the roster can’t have a high draft pick with a good roster . 

Should of tried to trade up to 2 or 3 and get Herbert. They had already signed rivers but there would of been nothing wrong sitting him a year behind Rivers. You are exactly right. Buckner was a luxury we couldn’t afford when we had no QB.  That 13th pick was too high to not try and get a QB in a good class.

[coming on strong]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Then that negotiated price was purely on Ballard, the GM. 

 

Frank is the current forum whipping-person so now I suppose Frank is responsible for giving up the 1st in addition to being the QB coach, OC god, and HC?

I been calling Ballard out all year I think his roster is overrated .  Middle of the pack defense with zero pass rush . No weapons in the passing game no game changing corners .  He made a horrible pickup in fisher and gave up the farm for a bust Qb .   I have always said players make the team good not coaches . Look how good pagano was as a dc in Baltimore but when he had no players here his defenses were horrible with the same scheme . 

[BlackTiger]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

We're sitting with the 22nd pick in the draft......only Eason on the roster......what do you do?

move up for jones or fields, if it doesnt work then take someone else in the draft later

 

this actually looks better in hindsight, we went nowhere anyway.  Its what i would have done, carson was off my list.  too much baggage and i think hes qb purgatory 

 

what do you do if CW doesnt work out?  thats sets the team back for years

[coming on strong]

2 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Should of tried to trade up to 2 or 3 and get Herbert. They had already signed rivers but there would of been nothing wrong sitting him a year behind Rivers. You are exactly right. Buckner was a luxury we couldn’t afford when we had no QB.  That 13th pick was too high to not try and get a QB in a good class.

I was screaming on here for months ahead of that draft saying trade down from 13 two first could of easily nabbed Herbert or less . 

[DougDew]

30 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

Other than Heyward, Fitzpatrick and Watt, I don't think there is a steeler who could make this Colt team. So, again, I think it's ridiculous that team got into the playoffs and the Colts didn't. This morning on steeler talk they were abusing the wide receivers for how bad they have been all season. Defend the steelers all you want there is nothing there and even their fans and media personnel who cover the team know it. By the way the tie with the lions occurred when the lion kicker missed a chip shot field goal with 1 minute left in overtime. Just like Viniatteri did in 2019, wow the luck of the steelers huh?

It comes down to our oline being better, but them having a pass rusher and a DB that makes plays.  Every other position is about even and is a big push. 

 

Pass rush and secondary talent is more important than oline talent. 

 

A tougher running hard to tackle RB and a QB who understands pressure can offset a weak oline.

 

Pittsburgh has better talent where it matters.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Should of tried to trade up to 2 or 3 and get Herbert. They had already signed rivers but there would of been nothing wrong sitting him a year behind Rivers. You are exactly right. Buckner was a luxury we couldn’t afford when we had no QB.  That 13th pick was too high to not try and get a QB in a good class.

Do you think that SD would have traded out?  No way.  

 

Ballard has had no viable option to get a QB other than what he has done.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, DougDew said:

Do you think that SD would have traded out?  No way.  

 

Ballard has had no viable option to get a QB other than what he has done.

LA didn’t have to trade out. Giants and Lyons were ahead of them and didn’t take a QB. BuT we also know had colts been interested giants or lions would of called LA and leveraged us against them. LA then would of had to move up from 6 since they had the higher pick they probably would of win a bidding war. It’s all hindsight because we don’t  know if colts contacted lions or giants or not.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

I was screaming on here for months ahead of that draft saying trade down from 13 two first could of easily nabbed Herbert or less . 

They would of called LA and they probably win the bidding war. LA then would of moved up. 

[Solid84]

13 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

I think if we pay Nelson an absurd contract he should move to LT, he has proved he can play it at a high level and its just a much more premium position. The amount of money he is going to get to play G is nuts, dont care how good of a G he is.

If we pay him 20+ mil we’re going to be stuck in mediocre hell for years in my opinion and I say that with Nelson being one of my favorite Colts!

 

Ballard has put us in a REALLY bad situation - up against the cap but not good enough to win and not bad enough to get high draftpicks.