Chubb vs the Maniac

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Stephen said:

Chubb should have more sacks playing opposite von miller

This too, great point. It is early but so far, Nelson looks like the better pick for us anyway. I love Barkley but I am not so sure Having Nelson instead isn't better.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

Regardless, all of these comparison are premature.

yes, yes they are. I said it myself in my post. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 

 

oh my, its a broken record in here or an echo..

Lets compare them then:

Chubb. 4 games played, 4 started: 10 tackles,  7 solo,  3 assists, 1.5 sacks, snaps played, 209, 79% of all D snaps for respective team
Kemoko Turay 4 games played, No Starts: 6 tackles, 3 Solos, 3 Assists, 2.0 Sacks, snaps played, 134, 43% of all D Snaps for respective team

so having played 36% LESS than chubb, Turay's numbers being nearly identical (only 4 less tackles) in a way supports my thesis just as the Leonard comparison did. That thesis being that surprisingly, Chubb has been relatively quiet thus far and draft position/hype means little once the pads come on.

 

 

Thus far. 

 

I never disagreed about the draft hype, I just think comparing a MLB with an EDGE is kind of apples/oranges. But to piggyback on your point, I'll take Nelson/Turay/Leonard over Chubb any day of the week. Plus, we have to remember that Tyquan Smith hasn't even played yet.

[Jason_]

7 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 

 

oh my, its a broken record in here or an echo..
 

 

And there's a reason for that.

[csmopar]

Just now, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I never disagreed about the draft hype, I just think comparing a MLB with an EDGE is kind of apples/oranges. But to piggyback on your point, I'll take Nelson/Turay/Leonard over Chubb any day of the week. Plus, we have to remember that Tyquan Smith hasn't even played yet.

yeah.  who'd thought that we'd be 2nd in the league in sacks, 1st in the AFC and denver would be mid pack, with Von Miller and Chubb...

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

And there's a reason for that.

yeah, people don't fully read before committing 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

yeah.  who'd thought that we'd be 2nd in the league in sacks, 1st in the AFC and denver would be mid pack, with Von Miller and Chubb...

Off topic but it sickens me we aren't at least 3-1. We could even be 4-0 and alot of that has to do with our Defense playing so well.

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This too, great point. It is early but so far, Nelson looks like the better pick for us anyway. I love Barkley but I am not so sure Having Nelson instead isn't better.

i think id rather have Barkley, he has almost as many rushing yards as the colts do and hes a good receiver too

 

nelson hasnt been as good as advertised imo, but hes had some tough match ups.  i do expect him to turn it around 

[shasta519]

11 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

yeah I'm interested to hear this....and not from PFF comparison grades.

 

It's tough to compare without the film and blocking assignments. But it seems that the consensus is that Hernandez has been the best OL rookie so far. He has only allowed 4 pressures in 4 games. 

 

Not sure about the rest of the OL rookies....hard to compare them anyways since many don't play right away...and there have been injuries as well.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

It's tough to compare without the film and blocking assignments. But it seems that the consensus is that Hernandez has been the best OL rookie so far. He has only allowed 4 pressures in 4 games. 

 

Not sure about the rest of the OL rookies....hard to compare them anyways since many don't play right away...and there have been injuries as well.

Nelson has looked Good so far to me. Nothing Great but around Good. Some stats may prove that wrong I guess, but by my eye test he looks Good.

[Jason_]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 

yeah, people don't fully read before committing 

 

sorry but that is not the reason

[ProblChld32]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

I like Leonard, but that's really not a fair comparison is it?

 

 

 

Uhhhh one could argue that with Von Miller on the other side Chubb should be flourishing alot more. I like Chubb more in a 4-3 as a DE as opposed to a OLB in a 3-4. 

[#12.]

Initial comparison aside, Leonard is a pass rushing weapon.  He had a lot of sacks in college and has a good shot at double-digits in the pros, which would be ridiculous from his position.

 

After I saw him explode on Smith for the first sack, I thought, yeah, if he can chase down everything sideline-to-sideline, send him after the QB too.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

i think id rather have Barkley, he has almost as many rushing yards as the colts do and hes a good receiver too

 

nelson hasnt been as good as advertised imo, but hes had some tough match ups.  i do expect him to turn it around 

Perhaps Nelson would have appreciated an experienced LT by his side for his initiation into pro football....

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

A LOT of posters on here, wanted the Colts to take Chubb at 3 and were disappointed that we couldnt after we traded out of the 3rd. So after 4 games, i thought a side by side comparison thus far would be interesting.  Lets just say it is.

 

Bradley Chubb:   10 tackles,  7 solo,  3 assists, 1.5 sacks

Darius Leonard: 54 tackles, 38 solo, 16 assist, 4.0 sacks

 

 

Wouldn’t the proper side by side comparison also include the three 2nd round picks.

 

So Turay could be included and so could the 2019 2nd round pick which could be top 10 in that round.    It’s a 3 for 1 when we chose to trade back...

 

Just thinking out loud...

 

 

[csmopar]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Wouldn’t the proper side by side comparison also include the three 2nd round picks.

 

So Turay could be included and so could the 2019 2nd round pick which could be top 10 in that round.    It’s a 3 for 1 when we chose to trade back...

 

Just thinking out loud...

 

 

keep reading the thread... 

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, braveheartcolt said:

Perhaps Nelson would have appreciated an experienced LT by his side for his initiation into pro football....

im sure he would appreciate it but i would still trade him for barkley 

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nelson has looked Good so far to me. Nothing Great but around Good. Some stats may prove that wrong I guess, but by my eye test he looks Good.

you keep capitalizing the "G" in good, are you saying he looks oft injured?

[csmopar]

Just now, aaron11 said:

im sure he would appreciate it but i would still trade him for barkley 

trade him for barkley? our run blocking sucks and Nelson is one of the best run blockers on that line.  Trade him and Barkley would have no where to run

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

trade him for barkley? our run blocking sucks and Nelson is one of the best run blockers on that line.  Trade him and Barkley would have no where to run

the giants line isnt good either, but barkely is getting it done there

 

hes also a good receiver 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

you keep capitalizing the "G" in good, are you saying he looks oft injured?

I always capitalize Good or Great or Bad for example to emphasize what I think of a player so it stands out. I have done that all my life. Instead of using bold I do that instead.

[Coffeedrinker]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I always capitalize Good or Great or Bad for example to emphasize what I think of a player so it stands out. I have done that all my life. Instead of using bold I do that instead.

I was just making a joke (or trying to) because Denzelle Good is oft injured

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

I was just making a joke (or trying to) because Denzelle Good is oft injured

We are cool but I wanted explain why I do, do that because others may actually wonder why I do that. I figured you were playing around no biggy 

[twfish]

Why dont wr compare him to someone else the forum really wanted, Roquan Smith. His stats are just 18 tackles and 1 sack. Granted I dont watch the bears but that's 1 game for Leonard

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, csmopar said:

keep reading the thread... 

 

Sorry....    wasn’t trying to pile on... 

 

As you figured,  I hadn’t read further into the thread...

 

Thanks...

 

[The Peytonator]

It’s easier to get sacks when you’re unblocked. 

 

I say this as a big fan of Darius Leonard and someone who wanted Ballard to draft him. Every GM would draft Bradley Chubb if they had the choice between the two with the benefit of hindsight and foresight, and it wouldn’t even be up for debate. 

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry....    wasn’t trying to pile on... 

 

As you figured,  I hadn’t read further into the thread...

 

Thanks...

 

its all good. I'm trying to edit it into the original post but it wont let me

[Defjamz26]

I agree with everyone else that it’s an unfair comparison. Leonard is also a starter where as Chubb is a rotational rusher. Turray is a better comparison. Turray has 2.0 sacks as a situational pass rusher. I’ll be comparing Turray and Chubb the rest of the season. 

 

Ballards draft moves seem to involve passing on certain players if he feels like he can get a player almost just as good in the other rounds. He’s stated that Leonard is why he was okay with passing on Roquan Smith. The idea of Turray being elite after coaching could be why he felt comfortable passing on Chubb. Even without Chubb, the Colts are 2nd in the league with sacks so Ballard seems to know what he’s doing.

[csmopar]

21 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I agree with everyone else that it’s an unfair comparison. Leonard is also a starter where as Chubb is a rotational rusher. Turray is a better comparison. Turray has 2.0 sacks as a situational pass rusher. I’ll be comparing Turray and Chubb the rest of the season. 

 

Ballards draft moves seem to involve passing on certain players if he feels like he can get a player almost just as good in the other rounds. He’s stated that Leonard is why he was okay with passing on Roquan Smith. The idea of Turray being elite after coaching could be why he felt comfortable passing on Chubb. Even without Chubb, the Colts are 2nd in the league with sacks so Ballard seems to know what he’s doing.

Chubb is starting....

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

Chubb should have more sacks playing opposite von miller

 

He's played four games, yall. 

[Superman]

38 minutes ago, twfish said:

Why dont wr compare him to someone else the forum really wanted, Roquan Smith. His stats are just 18 tackles and 1 sack. Granted I dont watch the bears but that's 1 game for Leonard

 

That's a valid comparison. But we should note that Smith missed most of camp and isn't 100% physically. Still, Leonard missed some time in the summer and had some injuries, and he looks like the most productive linebacker in the league, every game. 

[csmopar]

Heres the thing. Chubb is naturally talented and a good player. my comparison was not designed or intended to show other wise.  

 

That said, part of me wonders if the theory about high motors, work ethic and desire to improve and prove people wrong can make up or even overcome for having SLIGHTLY less talent or skill when drafted.  Think about it, we've seen this time and time again. Maurice Jones-Drew, Reggie Wayne, Robert Mathis, Tom Brady (gulp), and many others were all studs, great players drafted in either the later parts of round 1 or after, passed on for guys that were toted as being better or more talented coming out of college. Just something I've noticed is all.

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's a valid comparison. But we should note that Smith missed most of camp and isn't 100% physically. Still, Leonard missed some time in the summer and had some injuries, and he looks like the most productive linebacker in the league, every game. 

A perfect comparison is to Joey Bosa, both top 5 picks, play the same position. I agree we are only 4 games in, he may end up Good or Great. Just like everyone thinks Mahomes is a Hall of Famer already the way they talk about him, to early for that too. Luck had 3 Very Good years, 1 Great one in 2014. Mahomes needs to do what he is doing for 2 or 3 years before I am buying he's Great. Chubb needs to be at least Good in year 2, if he isn't than I understand the criticism.

[OffensivelyPC]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Lets compare Chubb to Joey Bosa then. Bosa is even slower but was Great his 1st 2 years. If you are picked in the Top 5 pick then any player should make an immediate impact. JMO.

Joey Bosa vs Bradley Chubb through 4 games

 

Bradley Chubb:   10 tackles,  7 solo,  3 assists, 1.5 sacks

Joey Bosa: (If you want to get technical) 0 tackles, 0 Solo, 0 assist, 0.0 sacks.

(through 4 games actually played) 13 tackles, 11 solo, 2 assist, 4.0 sacks.

 

Not the astounding difference  it seems people would have you believe.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Joey Bosa vs Bradley Chubb through 4 games

 

Bradley Chubb:   10 tackles,  7 solo,  3 assists, 1.5 sacks

Joey Bosa: (If you want to get technical) 0 tackles, 0 Solo, 0 assist, 0.0 sacks.

(through 4 games actually played) 13 tackles, 11 solo, 2 assist, 4.0 sacks.

 

Not the astounding difference  it seems people would have you believe.  

4 to 1.5 in Sacks is quite a difference IMO. Yeah Bosa as you know didn't play in his 1st 4 games to start his career. I am glad you used Games 5-8 for him. What is funny is, I thought Bosa would be a bust. I was wrong on that one. I do think that is a good comparison to what Chubb does though. Both Top 5 picks and play the same position.

[Defjamz26]

57 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Chubb is starting....

Looked it up and you are correct. I was under the impression Ray was starting over him. 1.5 sacks is a bit low for a starter drafted #4 overall IMO. What are his pressures numbers looking like though?

[OffensivelyPC]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

4 to 1.5 in Sacks is quite a difference IMO. Yeah Bosa as you know didn't play in his 1st 4 games to start his career. I am glad you used Games 5-8 for him. What is funny is, I thought Bosa would be a bust. I was wrong on that one. I do think that is a good comparison to what Chubb does though. Both Top 5 picks and play the same position.

I honestly don't remember what I thought of him.  I probably didn't look too hard into him because we were picking late enough I knew there wasn't a chance.  I don't remember disliking him, though.  

 

And there's still plenty of time.  Bosa didn't have another sack in his rookie season until week 12 when he went on a tear and got 6.5 sacks the last 6 games.   Chubb could very easily do 9 sacks in 12 more games.  I'm not going to hold my breath cause the dude is a rookie and for no other reason.  He's clearly got the talent to win and get to the QB with some regularity (he's also got 4 QB hits that could have very easily resulted in sacks).  He's going to be a good football player if the past 4 games is any indication.  And if he's just a notch under Joey Bosa, I'd have a hard time saying I'd take Darius Leonard over Bradley Chubb.  In fact, I'd probably lean toward saying its nonsense.  lol.

8 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Looked it up and you are correct. I was under the impression Ray was starting over him. 1.5 sacks is a bit low for a starter drafted #4 overall IMO. What are his pressures numbers looking like though?

If he turned his QB pressures into sacks he'd have 5.5 sacks per ESPNs "QB Hits" stat.

[csmopar]

25 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Looked it up and you are correct. I was under the impression Ray was starting over him. 1.5 sacks is a bit low for a starter drafted #4 overall IMO. What are his pressures numbers looking like though?

4 pressures/hurries

[ClaytonColt]

I don't think there's any doubt that Leonard has out performed Chubb to this points (and probably about 90% of the players drafted before him...including Nelson)

 

If I could pick 2 out if the three I'd still choose Chubb and Leonard though.

[a06cc]

Don’t want to make this a Nelson thread. However I’m very happy with the pick. To see him throw guys to the ground and keep pushing them down is great. It’s something that’s never been here in Indy ever. 

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nelson has looked Good so far to me. Nothing Great but around Good. Some stats may prove that wrong I guess, but by my eye test he looks Good.

 

Definitely as looked. But I don't think he's been the best rookie OL player. Lots can change over the nex couple of years. I hope he gets a chip on his shoulder after Clowney punked him.