Jacksonville (+7.5) at New England (1-21-18)

[bluebombers87]

7 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

Yes, because historically, the Patriots do NOT pick up stupid, pre-snap penalties (offsides, false starts, etc). Once in a great while... I would say at about half the clip of most teams. 

 

It also makes ZERO sense that the NFL would try to "help" the Patriots by having their refs call games in their favor, while hurting them on draft day, and with the ridiculous Brady suspension. The league does not want the Patriots to keep winning. They've built a system where teams are not SUPPOSED to do what the Patriots have done, and are doing. It's a system that penalizes you for being successful, and rewards you for being awful. They want parity so that fans in different markets are engaged. The Patriots create anti-parity. 

 

 

Say why you will but the point you should be countering is in that site linked way back in this thread. Make a compelling argument against that piece and you might be able to make progress.

 

And again, the Pats were caught, they had to do something for his blatant disregard for the rules (not cooperating in case you weren’t paying attention). As as for the rest, how much have they been pushing this “witnessing history” piece with Brady? Did the same thing with the Steelers.

 

Its very profitable to show history being made.

[bluebombers87]

Let me make myself clear. My point in all this is I believe the Pats get favorable calls. The “why” of it is unknown but my personal philosophy is explore all options. I’m not a conspiracy theorist per se but I allow all possibilities to lie on the table to go over.

[Chrisaaron1023]

21 minutes ago, Gramz said:

 

It really rubs some people the wrong way when Pats fans, who don't Normally post, suddenly make themselves present here to boast or gloat, and then have the nerve to call us haters.  I know if the situation were reversed, it would not be tolerated on their Planet.

 

Lol yeah this is a safe place for us Colts fans to grown without the judgement of the Golden children fans. Y'all are great. We get it.

[dgambill]

Is the NFL and officials in the Pats pocket...no...did I think the officiating leaned to the Pats on a couple calls and several no calls with that pass rush...sure...but it was a home game for the Pats....I expect them to benefit from the crowd and friendly confines. I don't think there is a big issue with the game. I would have been shocked if the calls didn't lean their way. The Pats won mostly because they made great adjustments at half time....brilliantly played the field position game until they got a bad sack and bad punt from Jacksonville. Brady then does what Brady does...find open guys and made them pay. Jacksonville played a pretty good game defensively honestly...most teams score enough to beat the Pats with that performance...sadly the Jags just didn't have a qb that could make throws to do it. It takes a well balanced team to beat the Pats...mostly Manning led teams (Eli or Peyton)...and neither went in to Foxboro and did it. Makes the Flacco wins even more a mystery although I think the one you guys lost Welker and Ray Rice went off too. Anyways, it takes a team playing to win and not lose to beat NE...and that didn't happen in either games this year. Tennessee and Jacksonville...and now a backup qb in Philly....has to be a dream year for Pats fans.

[JimJaime]

3 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

Nice try, but I said anybody who watched. Imagine Brady making this throw.

 

 

 

So moving around when it wasn't needed and throwing into double coverage makes him great? And FYI Brady made throws on the run..

[MariGOATa]

19 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Brady has always had the better Coach and better Defenses, 2 can play at this. When Brady wins a SB with Gary Kubiak as his Coach give me a call.

 

Manning did everything possible to lose that SB in 2015. Did you even watch the game?

[MariGOATa]

Peyton Manning has never carried a team to win the superbowl.  In 2006, Colts defense in the playoff gave up 16.2pts/game which is better than 3 of the 4 playoff defense Brady had during his superbowl year.  On offense, Manning threw 3tds to 7ints for the whole playoff (4games total).  That Colts team won the superbowl in spite of Manning terrible performance with Manning almost costing them.

In 2015, Denver defense in the playoff gave up 14.6pts/game which is better than all 4 of Brady's playoff defense that won the superbowl.  Manning on offense got 2 tds to 1ints for the whole playoff (3games total).  Again Manning basically did nothing on offense to help that team in the playoff. 

 

The Patriots defense in the playoff in 2001 gave up 15.7pts/game, 19pts/game in 2003, 17 pts/game in 2004, and 20.7 pts/game in 2015.

On offense during playoff, Brady threw 1td - 1int in 2001, 5tds - 2ints in 2003, 5tds - 0ints in 2004, and 10tds - 4ints in 2015.  (3games total each year)

[Colts_Fan12]

5 minutes ago, MariGOATa said:

 

Manning did everything possible to lose that SB in 2015. Did you even watch the game?

What would you know about the Super Bowl and great QB's?? Lol

[dw49]

6 hours ago, Gramz said:

I have a question for you. Can you in all honesty say that the Pats didn't get away with  any uncalled penalties?  

 

 

You are arguing with someone that said the Jags got away with penalties "thew out " the whole game. 

[Gramz]

13 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

What would you know about the Super Bowl and great QB's?? Lol

Don't feed the    

 

 

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, dw49 said:

 

 

You are arguing with someone that said the Jags got away with penalties "thew out " the whole game. 

Not arguing,  just pointing out a few things.   But yeah,  I know 

 

I try not to  

[buffalo34]

25 minutes ago, MariGOATa said:

Peyton Manning has never carried a team to win the superbowl.  In 2006, Colts defense in the playoff gave up 16.2pts/game which is better than 3 of the 4 playoff defense Brady had during his superbowl year.  On offense, Manning threw 3tds to 7ints for the whole playoff (4games total).  That Colts team won the superbowl in spite of Manning terrible performance with Manning almost costing them.

In 2015, Denver defense in the playoff gave up 14.6pts/game which is better than all 4 of Brady's playoff defense that won the superbowl.  Manning on offense got 2 tds to 1ints for the whole playoff (3games total).  Again Manning basically did nothing on offense to help that team in the playoff. 

 

The Patriots defense in the playoff in 2001 gave up 15.7pts/game, 19pts/game in 2003, 17 pts/game in 2004, and 20.7 pts/game in 2015.

On offense during playoff, Brady threw 1td - 1int in 2001, 5tds - 2ints in 2003, 5tds - 0ints in 2004, and 10tds - 4ints in 2015.  (3games total each year)

 

Except in 2006 Manning played 3 of the best defenses in the NFL in the postseason. He led the team to five FG drives against the Ravens, who arguably had the best defense in football that season, and had to do it in Baltimore. No one was going to go into Baltimore and drop 400 yards and 4 TDs on that team. He did just about as well as you could for a QB in Baltimore that year.

 

In the AFCCG (again, against one of the top ranked defenses in football) Manning only threw one TD, but his other scoring drives included a 1 yard QB sneak, the game-winning TD run by Addai (Manning drove them down the field and they started running the ball inside the 10 to try to take some time off the clock/make the Pats use TOs), and the Jeff Saturday fumble recovery that Rhodes fumbled. He drove them down the field on each scoring drive but they were able to run it in since they got inside the 5 each time. Does the fact that he only had one passing TD detract from all of that?

 

In the Super Bowl (against arguably the best defense in the NFC), Manning didn't have a terrible game. He shook off an early pick and had a decent game the rest of the way out. He didn't need to light the Bears up by himself since the running game was working, why change that? Who is he, the 2016 Falcons who kept passing up 28-3?

 

I can't speak for the Chiefs game (I think he threw three picks), since I don't remember how that game played out, I just remember the defense completely shutting down the Chiefs.

[BloodyChamp]

1 hour ago, JimJaime said:

seeing as how anyone with eyes knows he is in the discussion what you said was just insulting and uninformed biase

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JimJaime said:

 

So moving around when it wasn't needed and throwing into double coverage makes him great?

 

 

Another nice try...point about watching, etc.

 

1 hour ago, JimJaime said:

 

And FYI Brady made throws on the run..

 

Not that 1.

[JimJaime]

31 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

 

 

 

 

Another nice try...point about watching, etc.

 

 

Not that 1.

Wow again Aaron Rogers is amazing! Better than Farve! Farve is NOT in the top 5 not even close! 

[mikey287]

http://www.unsportsmanlike-conduct.com/blog/myles-jack-probably-got-robbed-of-a-game-changing-touchdown-due-to-an-issue-that-existed-well-before-yesterday

[dw49]

46 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Not arguing,  just pointing out a few things.   But yeah,  I know 

 

I try not to  

 

That was a beauty and can't even claim that would be a typo.

 

For what it's worth ,the PI call at the end of the half was horrible , the rest of the game IMO not too bad. 

[BloodyChamp]

1 hour ago, JimJaime said:

Wow again Aaron Rogers is amazing! Better than Farve! Farve is NOT in the top 5 not even close! 

 

Wow again is right

[George Peterson]

3 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

 

How many times can people state they believe the Pats get the calls before one starts to think they might be on to something? Is anyone that states that a “hater”?

Oh I'm actually pretty sure that the Pats get the benefit of the doubt on a borderline call or two.

 

it's more obvious in hockey but it happens in all major sports -- the teams and players that have the most consistent reputation for playing a clean game will get the benefit of the doubt on borderline calls.  The teams with a reputation for disregarding the rules (like the Jaguars, who were among the most penalized teams in the NFL this year) won't get the same benefit of the doubt and the refs will be looking for them to cross the line a bit more, leading to getting less benefit of the doubt on tickytack calls.

 

When you have one of the least penalized teams in the NFL against one of the most penalized, that impression is magnified.  I believe that the Jags were 3rd in penalties in the NFL, the Patriots, 24th.  There's reasons beyond conspiracy for the discrepancy in flags.

 

I mean if the biggest thing you can say the Patriots got away with is a few holding calls that the refs might have called but are really the kind of holds that nobody calls regularly in the playoffs, I think you have to look elsewhere to further the Patriot conspiracy theories.

[mikey287]

I question the NFL's ability to actually carry out a conspiracy successfully...I mean, look at what this league does, it's successful despite its best efforts...they could screw up a glass of water...I can't imagine they could competently fix games in any effective manner...

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, mikey287 said:

http://www.unsportsmanlike-conduct.com/blog/myles-jack-probably-got-robbed-of-a-game-changing-touchdown-due-to-an-issue-that-existed-well-before-yesterday

The NFL has got to do something about blowing plays dead too early he was untouched could have went to the house 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, MariGOATa said:

 

Manning did everything possible to lose that SB in 2015. Did you even watch the game?

In the 52 seasons of the SB era only 4 QB's have won more SB's than Peyton that have started the game. Brady -5, Montana -4, Bradshaw -4, and Aikman -3. You can only make a case for Brady and Montana being better all-time. Brady because he has won at least 2 League MVP's, same for Montana who won 2. Both of those players also have had great Stats as well. Brady's stats are very comparable to Peyton's and in an era where the QB's could get hit more and it wasn't a passing league, Montana still threw for 40,551 Yards and had 273 TD's. Bradshaw nor Aikman had the Stats or League MVP's to even be in this convo. Bradshaw Stats = 212 TD's/210 INT's with 27,989 Yards, 1 League MVP. Aikman Stats = 165 TD's/141 INT's with 32,942 Yards, 0 League MVP's. Peyton won a SB with 2 different teams and has 5 League MVP's + threw for 71,940 Yards and 539 TD's. Regarding the other QB's that have won 2 SB's, none of them compare to Peyton statistically so he was better than all of them when factoring everything in. He won just as much as those others and his Stats blow theirs away. So does his League MVP's. League MVP is the 2nd best award you can win, only winning the SB means more.

 

-At worse Peyton has to be regarded as the 3rd best QB of the SB era and I don't see how that can be debated. Only a hater wouldn't put him 3rd IMO.

[bluebombers87]

1 hour ago, George Peterson said:

Oh I'm actually pretty sure that the Pats get the benefit of the doubt on a borderline call or two.

 

it's more obvious in hockey but it happens in all major sports -- the teams and players that have the most consistent reputation for playing a clean game will get the benefit of the doubt on borderline calls.  The teams with a reputation for disregarding the rules (like the Jaguars, who were among the most penalized teams in the NFL this year) won't get the same benefit of the doubt and the refs will be looking for them to cross the line a bit more, leading to getting less benefit of the doubt on tickytack calls.

 

When you have one of the least penalized teams in the NFL against one of the most penalized, that impression is magnified.  I believe that the Jags were 3rd in penalties in the NFL, the Patriots, 24th.  There's reasons beyond conspiracy for the discrepancy in flags.

 

I mean if the biggest thing you can say the Patriots got away with is a few holding calls that the refs might have called but are really the kind of holds that nobody calls regularly in the playoffs, I think you have to look elsewhere to further the Patriot conspiracy theories.

No the biggest thing I’d say is the drive right before the half where the Pats were given 48 of a 80 or so yard drive. The PI was atrocious. The personal foul was dodgy at best. Gronk moves his head into contact with the defenders head. Defender was static. Sherman said it best, should he have blown out his knees? Gone low and upend him? Again dodgy call.

 

And you can say what you want about my theories but who would the NFL make more money on, NE or Jax? Not saying the NFL is actively throwing games but maybe having the refs keep it close so Pats can do what they do? 

 

Any student of history would say far greater plots have been carried by less capable players.

[BloodyChamp]

Outside of the fact that he got another ring (however they're came by, they all count...), 2015 doesn't belong in a discussion about how good Peyton Manning was. Get real. Same goes for Favre's 2010 season. That's not the only thing they have in common btw. They also have the 2 biggest bunches of TDs ever. 

 

NO OMGZZZZ TOO TOUSAND TENZ AND TOO TOUSAND FIFTTEENZ!!!!!!!

 

[MariGOATa]

55 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

In the 52 seasons of the SB era only 4 QB's have won more SB's than Peyton that have started the game. Brady -5, Montana -4, Bradshaw -4, and Aikman -3. You can only make a case for Brady and Montana being better all-time. Brady because he has won at least 2 League MVP's, same for Montana who won 2. Both of those players also have had great Stats as well. Brady's stats are very comparable to Peyton's and in an era where the QB's could get hit more and it wasn't a passing league, Montana still threw for 40,551 Yards and had 273 TD's. Bradshaw nor Aikman had the Stats or League MVP's to even be in this convo. Bradshaw Stats = 212 TD's/210 INT's with 27,989 Yards, 1 League MVP. Aikman Stats = 165 TD's/141 INT's with 32,942 Yards, 0 League MVP's. Peyton won a SB with 2 different teams and has 5 League MVP's + threw for 71,940 Yards and 539 TD's. Regarding the other QB's that have won 2 SB's, none of them compare to Peyton statistically so he was better than all of them when factoring everything in. He won just as much as those others and his Stats blow theirs away. So does his League MVP's. League MVP is the 2nd best award you can win, only winning the SB means more.

 

-At worse Peyton has to be regarded as the 3rd best QB of the SB era and I don't see how that can be debated. Only a hater wouldn't put him 3rd IMO.

 

Without those 2 SBs (Thanks to the defense) Manning would of fell in the same catg as Brett Favre. 

[MariGOATa]

1. Manning had the best offensive weapons of any QB in NFL history throughout his career

 

Players Manning played with: Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Julius Thomas, Wes Welker, 

Players Brady played with: Randy Moss (1 year and broke every QB-WR record at the time), Gronk, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman (QB turned WR)

 

2. Forget super bowls, lets look at playoff wins

1.Tom Brady - 22-9

2.Joe Montana - 16-7

5. Peyton Manning - 12-11

 

3.Peyton Manning has 9, "1-and-done" playoff appearances. Tom Brady has been to 9 AFC Championship games

 

Tom Brady  in 07' had by far the best passing offense of the last 22 years

Matt Cassel the next year the 272nd ranked passing offense of the last 22 years

 

Please tell me more about how Brady is strictly a system QB?

 

Brady has played 92% of his games outdoors (185 of 202)

Manning has played 49% of his games outdoors (122 of 248)

 

Brady in a dome: 67.4%, 8.64 YPA, 6.9% TD, 2.62% INT, 106.42 rating

Manning in a dome: 66.16%, 7.8 YPA, 6.1% TD, 2.4% INT, 99.72 rating

Brady outdoors: 63.15%, 7.35 YPA, 5.39% TD, 1.93% INT, 95.28 rating

Manning outdoors: 64.97%, 7.62 YPA, 5.66% TD, 2.63% INT, 95.83 rating

 

Also, people fail to mention Peyton had Tony Dungy and IND had one of the best defenses in the league for a few years in the mid 2000s.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, MariGOATa said:

 

Without those 2 SBs (Thanks to the defense) Manning would of fell in the same catg as Brett Favre. 

You keep saying thanks to his Defense he won 2 SB's. So I guess that doesn't apply to Tom Brady at all when he only threw for 145 Yards against the Rams and 1 TD. It was his Defense that shut down Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk wasn't it? How about the INT at the end of the Seattle SB win, without that the Pats lose if Seattle just runs the ball. I guess Big Ben doesn't deserve his SB win in SB 40 either considering he stunk up the joint? Just asking? 2015 counts whether anyone likes it or not and it's big legacy wise to say you won multiple SB's. Also Peyton played well in the SB vs the Bears who had a Great Defense. He threw for 247 Yards and had a 60 Yard TD pass to Wayne in a rainy soaked game, only had 1 early pick. He was Great against the Pats leading up to that game with tremendous pressure on him to get it done. In 2015 he played a Good game vs the Pats in the Title Game as well.

 

-During Brady's whole Playoff run in 2001, he threw for only 572 Yards and only had 1 TD with 1 INT, so by your logic his SB win shouldn't count as he had very little to do with the Pats winning in 2001. Also Vinatieri won the SB for them with a 48 Yard FG to boot. Guess what, they all count for QB's as long as they start the game. Even if it's the Defense that carries a QB at times, that QB still has to find away to not mess it up. Peyton didn't make any critical error's while Cam the League MVP did.

[George Peterson]

9 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

No the biggest thing I’d say is the drive right before the half where the Pats were given 48 of a 80 or so yard drive. The PI was atrocious.

 

This PI?

 

 

Because that right there is textbook pass interference.  Bouye never turned around, put his hands on Cooks and forced him out of bounds before the throw got there.  That is not a borderline call.   If that was Manning or Luck making that throw and the CB pushed the guy out like that, and the Colts DIDN'T get the call, you'd be LIVID, and for good reason.

 

Also if you're going to do that kind of thing and hope to get away with it maybe don't do it RIGHT in front of the nose of one of referees.

[George Peterson]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You keep saying thanks to his Defense he won 2 SB's. So I guess that doesn't apply to Tom Brady at all when he only threw for 145 Yards against the Rams and 1 TD. It was his Defense that shut down Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk wasn't it? How about the INT at the end of the Seattle SB win, without that the Pats lose if Seattle just runs the ball. I guess Big Ben doesn't deserve his SB win in SB 40 either considering he stunk up the joint? Just asking? 2015 counts whether anyone likes it or not and it's big legacy wise to say you won multiple SB's. Also Peyton played well in the SB vs the Bears who had a Great Defense. He threw for 247 Yards and had a 60 Yard TD pass to Wayne in a rainy soaked game, only had 1 early pick. He was Great against the Pats leading up to that game with tremendous pressure on him to get it done. In 2015 he played a Good game vs the Pats in the Title Game as well.

 

-During Brady's whole Playoff run in 2001, he threw for only 572 Yards and only had 1 TD with 1 INT, so by your logic his SB win shouldn't count as he had very little to do with the Pats winning in 2001. Also Vinatieri won the SB for them with a 48 Yard FG to boot. Guess what, they all count for QB's as long as they start the game. Even if it's the Defense that carries a QB at times, that QB still has to find away to not mess it up. Peyton didn't make any critical error's while Cam the League MVP did.

 

You're right.  A quarterback can absolutely mess up the game for a great defense.  For an example, I'll cite the 2011 AFGGC between the Denver Broncos, who had an elite defense but were saddled with Tebow under center, and the Patriots.  This was the game where the Tebow magic wore off, because the Pats were prepared for his tricks and didn't give him anything to work with.  I think Tebow had 4 turnovers that game and the Broncos got shellacked.

 

Sometimes all a quarterback needs to be is the guy who is the focus of the offense and controls the turnover game.  If the rest of the team can get the job done, the quarterback "won" that game.  Probably one of the better examples is Brad Johnson of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2002.  By all accounts that offense was not good and you could consider Brad himself an average quarterback only if you were feeling slightly generous.  But they did enough to win and the defense scored some points to put it away.  He still did his bit, so he still gets credit as the quarterback responsible for the 2002 Superbowl.

[Yehoodi]

9 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

No the biggest thing I’d say is the drive right before the half where the Pats were given 48 of a 80 or so yard drive. The PI was atrocious. The personal foul was dodgy at best. Gronk moves his head into contact with the defenders head. Defender was static. Sherman said it best, should he have blown out his knees? Gone low and upend him? Again dodgy call.

 

And you can say what you want about my theories but who would the NFL make more money on, NE or Jax? Not saying the NFL is actively throwing games but maybe having the refs keep it close so Pats can do what they do? 

 

Any student of history would say far greater plots have been carried by less capable players.

 

I do agree that the NFL has at times been more of a business and show than a sport, and at times would want certain match ups or results for purposes of ratings and money, as opposed to letting/hoping things do not turn out the other way.

 

However, in the instant game I think it is a stretch to try to make a point that the game is an example of this . . . 

 

George Peterson's last post pretty much answer the question regarding the PI, one can not simply cut off a WR and ride him out of bounds, that is PI.  The only exception is if the ball is thrown out of bounds with both players looking back on the ball the defender rides the guy out of bounds in order to get to the ball.  This is simply not the case.  Plus this play came right after the hit on Gronk, so maybe the refs are not in the mood for any more hanky panky

 

As for the gronk hit, the guy hit gronk in head with such force that he knocked him out of the game.  He could of lower his shoulder drove it into Gronk's chest/side area, like that Thomas hit last year or like they actually did earlier in the game on Gronk.

 

As for the other four penalties we had the following:

 

False Start - the left tackle moved before the snap, not a difficult call. 

 

Illegal Procedure - after what looked like a dicey catch on the side lines, the jags ran to the LOS to try to get a play off really fast (so no challenge) and they were not set - next time do not hurry as much

 

Other PI - the DB went past Cooks and hooked his neck to pull down Cooks, PI

 

Delay of Game - Coming out of a time out (90 seconds) and then standing in the huddle, the Jags could not get lined up and hike the ball within the 25 second play clock. there was certainly a second at zero before it was hiked.  The refs will give you some lee way, but are less likely coming out of a time out when you are set in the huddle and a full 25 seconds on the play clock. 

 

  

[2006Coltsbestever]

31 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

 

You're right.  A quarterback can absolutely mess up the game for a great defense.  For an example, I'll cite the 2011 AFGGC between the Denver Broncos, who had an elite defense but were saddled with Tebow under center, and the Patriots.  This was the game where the Tebow magic wore off, because the Pats were prepared for his tricks and didn't give him anything to work with.  I think Tebow had 4 turnovers that game and the Broncos got shellacked.

 

Sometimes all a quarterback needs to be is the guy who is the focus of the offense and controls the turnover game.  If the rest of the team can get the job done, the quarterback "won" that game.  Probably one of the better examples is Brad Johnson of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2002.  By all accounts that offense was not good and you could consider Brad himself an average quarterback only if you were feeling slightly generous.  But they did enough to win and the defense scored some points to put it away.  He still did his bit, so he still gets credit as the quarterback responsible for the 2002 Superbowl.

The Brad Johnson's, Jeff Hostetler's, Trent Dilfer's of the world is why Peyton winning a 2nd SB was huge IMO. Any QB can get lucky and win 1, even on a fluke where his Defense just plays fantastic or the QB plays mistake free once in his career. To win twice isn't a fluke no matter how anyone tries to twist it. You have to be damn Great to win it twice regardless. Jim Plunkett is the only QB in NFL history that has won it twice as a starter that isn't in the Hall of Fame out of the retired QB's. Eli and Ben both will make it when they retire because they have won 2 and have the Stats. Peyton obviously will make it. If it was easy to win 2, Brees and Rodgers would have done it by now. Brees will never do it now, Rodgers maybe as he does have 1? Favre only won 1 and that guy was incredible, Marino won 0 and he was unreal! Elway has 2 like Staubach and both of those guys were unreal too.

[2006Coltsbestever]

If Philly wins the SB, it's Nick Foles with 1 not Carson Wentz, we need to keep that in mind. He is the starter not Wentz. Wentz will get a Ring but as a starter still has 0 Championships. I bring this up because some people try to say Steve Young won 3 SB's, No he didn't. He won 1 in 1994 as a starter but does have 3 Rings. Montana won in 88 and 89, Young was on the bench during those Playoff runs.

[mikey287]

If Nick Foles - who has the athleticism of a house plant - wins a Super Bowl it will deaden the "QBs are solely responsible for winning championships in the NFL" narrative a little bit. These are my two least favorite teams in football, so there's really this a lose/lose situation unless some sort of black plague scenario occurs (or Spanish Flu, see: 1919 Stanley Cup Final). 

 

Ideal scenario: Brady and Gronk get hurt doing something that TMZ would enjoy reporting on and then Drew Bledsoe comes in and wins it for New England. 

 

I guess the second choice is: Philadelphia winning...though I live here and hate their fans. The team is objectively more likable than New England. 

[Gramz]

I don't care who you are, this is hilarious 

[George Peterson]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Brad Johnson's, Jeff Hostetler's, Trent Dilfer's of the world is why Peyton winning a 2nd SB was huge IMO. Any QB can get lucky and win 1, even on a fluke where his Defense just plays fantastic or the QB plays mistake free once in his career. To win twice isn't a fluke no matter how anyone tries to twist it. You have to be damn Great to win it twice regardless. Jim Plunkett is the only QB in NFL history that has won it twice as a starter that isn't in the Hall of Fame out of the retired QB's. Eli and Ben both will make it when they retire because they have won 2 and have the Stats. Peyton obviously will make it. If it was easy to win 2, Brees and Rodgers would have done it by now. Brees will never do it now, Rodgers maybe as he does have 1? Favre only won 1 and that guy was incredible, Marino won 0 and he was unreal! Elway has 2 like Staubach and both of those guys were unreal too.

There is no doubt whatsoever that Peyton Manning will be a first ballot Hall of Famer.  He and Tom Brady between them defined their generation of quarterbacks.  Those two, along with Ben Roethlisberger, are the three most iconic quarterbacks of the 21st century so far (Rodgers is working on it, but has a ways to go).  They're all locks, and being able to hold things together when he was old, crippled, and had nothing but a lifetime of cunning and experience to rely on, and win one last ring, is enough to seal the deal.

[mikey287]

Poor Drew Brees...who is 10x better than Roethlisberger...never gets any credit. 

[George Peterson]

1 hour ago, mikey287 said:

Poor Drew Brees...who is 10x better than Roethlisberger...never gets any credit. 

You're right.  Brees deserves more credit than he gets.  But I was talking about iconic players, and because of the team he plays for, Roethlisberger is far more iconic and better known.

 

If Brees had been a Steeler we'd be talking about the Holy Trinity.  Big market teams always have an advantage when they get a big star, in keeping that star alive in the conversation

[bluebombers87]

4 hours ago, Yehoodi said:

 

I do agree that the NFL has at times been more of a business and show than a sport, and at times would want certain match ups or results for purposes of ratings and money, as opposed to letting/hoping things do not turn out the other way.

 

However, in the instant game I think it is a stretch to try to make a point that the game is an example of this . . . 

 

George Peterson's last post pretty much answer the question regarding the PI, one can not simply cut off a WR and ride him out of bounds, that is PI.  The only exception is if the ball is thrown out of bounds with both players looking back on the ball the defender rides the guy out of bounds in order to get to the ball.  This is simply not the case.  Plus this play came right after the hit on Gronk, so maybe the refs are not in the mood for any more hanky panky

 

As for the gronk hit, the guy hit gronk in head with such force that he knocked him out of the game.  He could of lower his shoulder drove it into Gronk's chest/side area, like that Thomas hit last year or like they actually did earlier in the game on Gronk.

 

As for the other four penalties we had the following:

 

False Start - the left tackle moved before the snap, not a difficult call. 

 

Illegal Procedure - after what looked like a dicey catch on the side lines, the jags ran to the LOS to try to get a play off really fast (so no challenge) and they were not set - next time do not hurry as much

 

Other PI - the DB went past Cooks and hooked his neck to pull down Cooks, PI

 

Delay of Game - Coming out of a time out (90 seconds) and then standing in the huddle, the Jags could not get lined up and hike the ball within the 25 second play clock. there was certainly a second at zero before it was hiked.  The refs will give you some lee way, but are less likely coming out of a time out when you are set in the huddle and a full 25 seconds on the play clock. 

 

  

Pats with one flag tied the lowest number of flags for a team since the 2011 Pats against the Ravens in 2011. But it’s all coaching. Sure.

 

As for the Bouye PI, Brooks was running to the sideline. Bouye followed him. Bouye played tight coverage. Bouye looked over his left shoulder then was caught by Brooks right arm and then Bouye looked over his right shoulder for the ball. Bouye was established and attempting to locate the ball but was being struck by Brooks repeatedly. He didn’t cut him off nor ride him out of bounds. He followed him out. Also, the Jags has only two PI calls all year but had two in this game? Coaching?

 

Church had his shoulder lowered. Gronk came down and initiated the contact with Church’s helmet. I’ve attached an image showing this. It appears he was leading with his shoulder to place it on the chest of Gronk but Gronk lowered his helmet into Church’s.

 

The rest I’ll leave as you’re correct. My opinion is that those two penalties accounted for 47 or so yards on an 80 yard drive and came at a time when the Pats had no answer. 

 

 

[GoPats]

2 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

Pats with one flag tied the lowest number of flags for a team since the 2011 Pats against the Ravens in 2011. But it’s all coaching. Sure.

 

As for the Bouye PI, Brooks was running to the sideline. Bouye followed him. Bouye played tight coverage. Bouye looked over his left shoulder then was caught by Brooks right arm and then Bouye looked over his right shoulder for the ball. Bouye was established and attempting to locate the ball but was being struck by Brooks repeatedly. He didn’t cut him off nor ride him out of bounds. He followed him out. Also, the Jags has only two PI calls all year but had two in this game? Coaching?

 

Church had his shoulder lowered. Gronk came down and initiated the contact with Church’s helmet. I’ve attached an image showing this. It appears he was leading with his shoulder to place it on the chest of Gronk but Gronk lowered his helmet into Church’s.

 

The rest I’ll leave as you’re correct. My opinion is that those two penalties accounted for 47 or so yards on an 80 yard drive and came at a time when the Pats had no answer. 

 

 

 

 

The first PI call on Bouye could have gone either way. They were letting them play for the most part... Hogan had one ball thrown to him that was broken up but the guy clearly got there a second before the ball. I wouldn't have been annoyed if they hadn't called this one. (The second PI though, late in the game, was blatant, as a guy got Cooks around the neck/head before the ball got there.) 

 

The Gronk hit was CLASSIC helmet-to-helmet. If you don't think that should have been called, then you haven't been watching a lot of NFL football over the past five years or so. 

 

 

[GoPats]

On 1/22/2018 at 11:23 AM, IndyScribe said:

Why do teams always play conservative against the Pats in the second half? If Jags played like they did in the first half or played to win instead of not to lose, they would have won the game.

 

What's kind of funny/ironic about this...

The Jags keep the ball on the ground to try to burn clock, and the reaction is, "WHY DID THEY PLAY IT SO CONSERVATIVE???!!!"

 

But the Falcons, who have a MUCH better passing attack than Jacksonville, try to throw it in last year's Super Bowl and everyone is all, "OMG WHY ARE THEY NOT RUNNING IT TO KILL CLOCK????!!" 

 

Nothing against you of course, I just think it's funny! 

 

 

[GoPats]

22 hours ago, Gramz said:

It boils down to. ..... there is just such a history there, that yeah now people look for it.  Myself included, and I can admit that.

 

I don't feel the least bit guilty or wrong for feeling the way I do, or seeing things the way I see them, or discussing it with like minded fans.

 

I also don't go to their boards to look  for trouble.  What good comes from that?

 

It really rubs some people the wrong way when Pats fans, who don't Normally post, suddenly make themselves present here to boast or gloat, and then have the nerve to call us haters.  I know if the situation were reversed, it would not be tolerated on their Planet.

 

 

 

Consider that of the 34 playoff games the Patriots have had under BB/TB, they've played only seven on them on the road.  

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/mcmullen-does-nfl-pete-morelli-problem/

 

http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/18/football-freakonomics-how-advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/

 

Here's one talking about a call the Patriots did NOT get...

 

https://deadspin.com/the-real-reason-the-panthers-patriots-officials-picked-1467689096

 

 

My only main point throughout this, though, was to ask the obvious question... if the NFL is so dead set on helping the Patriots win games, why have they taken away draft picks and why did they suspend Brady for a quarter of a season when the rule book states that TEAMS (not players) are subject to FINES (not suspensions, or loss of draft picks)? 

 

The Patriots are not good for the NFL. The rest of the league and fans of the league hate them. Even casual fans are sick of them. They're not supposed to be doing what they're still doing... the league is not built in a way that makes it easy for teams to achieve sustained success.