HAVE WE LOOKED AT GM BALLARD CLOSE ENOUGH

[OffensivelyPC]

This is so premature it's not even worth reading the OP.  Goodness sake, at least wait until next draft or better yet, after 2 full seasons and at least you can get a sense of his building strategy, philosophies, and judgment of talent. Critiquing a GM a week after the first season ends is about as useful as a poopy flavored lollipop.

[NewColtsFan]

53 minutes ago, a06cc said:

You beat me to it. I’d also like to add. When the season started Irsay and Ballard said it would be a restart like 2012. So why are you surprised? 

 

I'm not sure that's the best example...   in 2012 the Colts went 11-5.    This year 4-12.  

 

No Andrew Luck compounded matters...

 

[NewColtsFan]

43 minutes ago, Pelt said:

4-23?

 

Well, I guess it did kinda feel like that this year! 

That's what happens when I post by phone instead of computer!

 

           

 

[elyanon]

Coltsfanforlife12

Where did you get the info on Pagano choices? Just asking?

[esmort]

I think maybe some choices might have been based on Pagano's input...Tolzien for example; and that under normal circumstances might have overruled the HC, but he had to give Pagano enough latitude that he could justify letting him go. 

[Goatface Killah]

Yeah why would we want to add an All Pro caliber OL?

 

 

If an OL isn't worth the 3rd PICK, a RB definitely isnt.

[NewColtsFan]

What are the odds that a new GM is brought in and not only told to keep the current HC, but ALSO told that Pagano, a man who was halfway out the door, should have the say on draft picks and free agents?!?   What are the chances?

 

Without knowing for certain, I'd peg those odds at close to zero.    Honestly, I don't think Ballard or any GM candidate would take that job.

 

In game decisions and coaching staff are one thing.   The rebuilding of the franchise with the draft and free agency is another thing entirely.

 

[elyanon]

OffensivelyPC

That's why I  asked most of what I did. Unless the Colts owner , GM and Couches knew we would be without Luck for the year before the start of the season, they were evaluating players with Andrew as the QB. And yes a second year will tell us a lot Pagano is gone.

[GoColts8818]

Do you think the Colts had a good draft last year?  Do you think he did a good job with trades and free agents last year?  That’s all we really have to look at right now. 

 

Persomally i think he did good at both.

[DougDew]

Wow.  Criticize the golden boy Ballard at your own risk.

[DougDew]

25 minutes ago, esmort said:

I think maybe some choices might have been based on Pagano's input...Tolzien for example; and that under normal circumstances might have overruled the HC, but he had to give Pagano enough latitude that he could justify letting him go. 

Yup.  For about 4 -5 years running.

 

The idea that Grigson continuously overruled Pagano was always a false narrative

[Roger]

1 hour ago, ReMeDy said:

 

I'd like to say it's auto-correct, but couching isn't a word.

I just blame that type mistake on siri.

[Buddy Lee]

1 hour ago, NorthernBlue said:

What the heck is couching staff?

I know this is in very bad taste and I despise the man, but it popped into my mind and I can't resist.... Please don't kill me.

 

Harvey Weinstein's booking staff

[OffensivelyPC]

34 minutes ago, elyanon said:

OffensivelyPC

That's why I  asked most of what I did. Unless the Colts owner , GM and Couches knew we would be without Luck for the year before the start of the season, they were evaluating players with Andrew as the QB. And yes a second year will tell us a lot Pagano is gone.

This doesn't make sense. Who cares if luck is on the field when it comes to individual evaluation. You watch a defensive End's film and you don't need Luck on the field for the evaluation to be accurate.

[UKColt13]

I don’t think many people are saying Ballard was the Colts problem this year. 

 

I think Luck’s right shoulder and Pagano take the 1 & 2 spots in that race.

[NewColtsFan]

56 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Wow.  Criticize the golden boy Ballard at your own risk.

 

I don't mind anyone criticizing Ballard....   but can someone at least make a compelling argument?

 

 

[The Fish]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't mind anyone criticizing Ballard....   but can someone at least make a compelling argument?

 

 

HE DID OR DIDNT SOMETHING SOMETHING... ANDREW LUCK!?!?!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

I don't think Ballard had much to do with starting Tolzien.   That was probably Paganos choice.  

 

I think Ballard did a great job.  He signed several players for cheap who were in their prime (24-28 years old).   He was given a very poor roster to start with.   No depth.   He is coming along nicely.     I would give him a B+ alfter only 1 offseason with the crap he was given.  

Your high if you don'y think Ballard had input into Tolzien starting!

[Smoke317]

I think Chuck & Chud rolled with Tolzien based off of familiarity with him & his decent showing in the Steelers game last year.  I think Ballard went & got Brissett because he knew Tolzien was hot garbage.  We gotta remember Chuck was coaching for his job & that influenced his decisions all season.  

 

After that game 1 abomination from Scott, I can imagine Ballard gave him a look (or they had a meeting) & Chuck knew that another performance or 2 like that and he wouldn’t make it through the season...  So Chuck probably rolled with Brissett, with major influence (spoken or not) from Ballard.

 

As to Ballard’s first season, I’d give him a passing grade.  Our DLine has been stout.  Simon. Mingo. Hooker. Wilson. Mack. Hairston. All look like keepers.  When’s the last time we brought in that many potential keepers in one offseason???  Another offseason of keepers like that, with the return of Luck & the right HC & we’ll be contending next year.

 

But that can all go away if he messes up this HC hire...

[WarGhost21]

3 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

 

I'd like to say it's auto-correct, but couching isn't a word.

I would totally create it. It's going to mean "when you're sitting on a couch". Like surfing, where you're riding the waves, you're couching, where your riding the cushions!

[Coltfreak]

I'm not sure what is dumber.  The OPs post or the fact that he got you all to bite. 

 

Hahaha.  

[a06cc]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not sure that's the best example...   in 2012 the Colts went 11-5.    This year 4-12.  

 

No Andrew Luck compounded matters...

 

The last part wasn’t for you. It was for the OP. I agree with everything you had stated. Sorry! But I was informing him that Ballard stated this season was a rebuild essentially. 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

Indiana spelling....so sad....but let me tell you since I've moved to Kentucky the educational system in Indiana looks like Ivy League material.

Watch it have ties to education in both states

[PrincetonTiger]

Remember Everything Will be Okay 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Yup.  For about 4 -5 years running.

 

The idea that Grigson continuously overruled Pagano was always a false narrative

 

Of course, lets be clear....    you have no way of knowing that.    None.

 

This us your hunch and only a hunch.

 

You can't point to anything that would support your claim, but that's never stopped you before...

 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, a06cc said:

The last part wasn’t for you. It was for the OP. I agree with everything you had stated. Sorry! But I was informing him that Ballard stated this season was a rebuild essentially. 

 

Thanks...   appreciate the clarification...

 

Yes...   not only did he say that,  but he said it wouldn't be a one year rebuild...  that it would take some time...

[NorthernBlue]

Regarding my actual take on this, either certain fans are just really impatient regarding the colts current retool/ the status of Luck, or they simply just don't like being satisfied and need to find something to complain about.

 

Ballard hasn't been perfect, but everything he's done so far has essentially gone as expected, regarding roster moves and decisions. We lost Luck, which the organization was just as surprised as we are when it happend, but the roster turnover, youth movement, and replacement of veterans, along with the 4-12 record that followed was all to be expected with our current talent level.

[a06cc]

12 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

Regarding my actual take on this, either certain fans are just really impatient regarding the colts current retool/ the status of Luck, or they simply just don't like being satisfied and need to find something to complain about.

 

Ballard hasn't been perfect, but everything he's done so far has essentially gone as expected, regarding roster moves and decisions. We lost Luck, which the organization was just as surprised as we are when it happend, but the roster turnover, youth movement, and replacement of veterans, along with the 4-12 record that followed was all to be expected with our current talent level.

Exactly the key was to get younger, depth and talent. 

[Dark Superman]

Chris Ballard is 2-0 with trades with Bill Belicheck.

 

He has my vote.

[ColtsBlitz]

I thought what Ballard did in one season was pretty impressive. Complete defensive turnover and a successful draft overall. He got more done that I thought he would. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i have to disagree about hooker and wilson

 

hooker was good at playing the ball in the air, but not much else. he wasnt good at tackling or cleaning up plays the LBs missed.  id like to see that out of a FS.  ftr pff rated him as average, so not bad for a rookie but not what i would call good yet either

 

to me wilson looked like he had a ways to go early on.  he finished better than he started, but im not sure i would put him out there over melvin, desir or hairstone 

most draft picks take a while to see if they can play in the nfl

[dgambill]

People have to realize Grigsons rebuild and Ballards were very different. While both took measured attempts at free agency in the contracts Grigson added a lot more veterens over his tenure...guys in their 30s etc and players with experience in the new scheme to work with the coaching staff. Remember Chuck was well known to prefer veteren players because he trusted them and could rely on them. Thus we saw some results quicker but we didn’t see a lot of growth or improvement during the season etc. Ballard has gone very very very young...and is focused on growing his players. Another thing we see is that Grigson was very very focused on being the bigger team..stronger and I think he thought that would make the difference in the trenches. We had the biggest (heaviest) team in the NFL when he was here....but they weren’t athletic...and worse is they were old. Ballard has done a better job looking for measurable but athleticism. I have faith if we draft well we will continue to build successfully.

[Myles]

16 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Your high if you don'y think Ballard had input into Tolzien starting!

You're high if you don't think the coaches who coach Tolzien didn't pick him as the starter.  

Ballard went out and got Brissett.     Had Pagano told Ballard that Tolzien was awful, Ballard would have brought someone in sooner.

[DaveA1102]

11 hours ago, Dark Superman said:

Chris Ballard is 2-0 with trades with Bill Belicheck.

 

He has my vote.

 

I was listening to a podcast the other day (think it was "Chopping Wood"-Indystar) and they were saying that BB has mentioned to others that he likes to "lose trades" every now and then.

 

As long as they make no real dent in his team (like losing Brissett or a 6th rounder) then he is happy to accept it as other GMs/media have a perception of him being the master of trades and so, if he wins every time, people are less likely to do a trade with him as they assume they will lose and so it might cost him more or even result in no trade.

 

Amazing if he thinks to that level but wouldn't take it as gospel.

 

I think the Jimmy G trade is an outlier in all this as well.

[DaveA1102]

13 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Your high if you don'y think Ballard had input into Tolzien starting!

 

40 minutes ago, Myles said:

Your high if you don't think the coaches who coach Tolzien didn't pick him as the starter.  

Ballard went out and got Brissett.     Had Pagano told Ballard that Tolzien was awful, Ballard would have brought someone in sooner.

 

You're* both high if your spelling is anything to go by.

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

Your high if you don't think the coaches who coach Tolzien didn't pick him as the starter.  

Ballard went out and got Brissett.     Had Pagano told Ballard that Tolzien was awful, Ballard would have brought someone in sooner.

Really Ballard had to believe that tolzen was the guy or they would have brought someone in early!!! IMO EVERYONE was drinking the Luck will be back soon cool aid!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

2 hours ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

 

You're* both high if your spelling is anything to go by.

 

Thanks grammar nazi! You know you gots to be on top of that!

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Really Ballard had to believe that tolzen was the guy or they would have brought someone in early!!! IMO EVERYONE was drinking the Luck will be back soon cool aid!

Ballard also had to take the HC and QB coaches word for it that Tolzien is capable if Luck was to miss the first couple weeks.  

[Peterk2011]

19 hours ago, elyanon said:

Who's screaming folks. I just asked some questions whether you believe them uninformed or not fine though as one fellow fan said wanting to lock this useless question line down Ballard changed 10 of 11 defensive starters 1 due to the GEATHERS injury that seems like more than a little involvement with who ended up as D starters. I thought the 2 DE's (even their backups) were good keeps and as I wrote Simon and Snead. on the field its the couches that have to work with the players not the GM.

 

Ballard brugnt in more defensive starters in one offseason, than Grigson did in five years. He didn't have much cap space to work with, so he went with the numbers on the cheap side. The result? Simon (until hurt), Hankins, Woods, Hunt, Sheard, Mingo, Bostic, etc. all lived up to their contracts. Sheard overplayed his. Only a couple of them are pro bowl worthy, but you don't get pro bowlers for pennies. Then he picked Hooker, Wilson, Basham, Mack, Hairston and some. The jury is still out for them, but what I saw this year makes me believe that Hooker is indeed on track to be a special player, Wilson, despite being doghoused for a period of time, showed why he was a first round talent on many experts draft boards. His 80 overall pff grading is very good for a rookie. Maybe even a bit better than how i would've graded him, but whatever. Basham started slow, but picket it up by the end of the season. He is young, we will see. Mack, we talked a lot about. And he found Hairston in the 5th, which, as it seems now, was a great find.

 

19 hours ago, elyanon said:

f we were seeing what some are calling a sub par team in 2017 are we going to see anything like the player movement we saw in 2017 in 2018?

 

Last year, there were positions with no starters and no depth at all. Now, there is rotation, there is depth in most positions (maybe except ILB). So I expect a little drop in numbers, and more focus on quality. 

 

All in all, Ballard did a fine job in 2017 I think. But .... Grigson did a fine job in his first year too. He was good dealing with the huge dead cap, and bringing in cheap serviceable players. I prefer Ballard's approach, who brought in young bodies opposite to Grigsons who brought in aging veterans, but both worked for a transition year. It was the next year, when he started to loose the war, with big cash in the pocket.

 

So I will very closely watch Ballard this offseason. I hope he won't fall into the same traps as Grigson did. Or different traps. What about just not falling into any?  

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

20 minutes ago, Myles said:

Ballard also had to take the HC and QB coaches word for it that Tolzien is capable if Luck was to miss the first couple weeks.  

Weeks is one thing a season is another! Ballard saw lots of tape of Tolzen there is lots of blame to go around on this one!! I am sure Ballard was at almost every practice as well.