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Stop Blaming Pagano


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19 hours ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

Let's look at this from another perspective:

 

Look at the talent level of the Colts D vs. the Steelers O.  How many points would you expect the Steelers to be able to score?  How many did they score?  How many did they score on drives that started outside the Colts' 11 yard line?  Who outcoached who?

 

Look at the talent level of the Colts O vs. the Steelers D.  What coach would have done better against that Steeler D with the Colts O?

 

EDIT:  Hooker, Mewhort, Turbin, Geathers, Anderson, Simon - pick any 3 of those names, add them to this team and what's the outcome?  The Steelers have only 2 players on IR.

You forgot the biggest name LUCK!

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2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Wilson didn't earn his chance to get snaps.  You earn your PT in the NFL.   He's a major bust at this point for a second rd. pick. just like Green.  Green earned his snaps then blew it.  I think the writing is on the wall for him.  Wilson better get it into high gear.  Ballard already has cut his own 4th. rounder. in Banner.  

Ballard and Pagano have both stated that they like Quincy. I think you might be off on this one. I think Quincy is going to be good, he is battling a knee.

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23 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Ballard's not gonna cut Quincy Wilson in favor of TJ Green, and if he does, he needs to have his head examined. And saying Green has "earned" his snaps is laughable. How has he earned it, by having a pulse?

I never said Ballard is going to cut Wilson over Green.  Try rereading my post slowly.   Green's going first.  Wilson can't even get on the field.  He can't even get activated for most of the games. That's got to make Ballard feel real good.  On the other hand it appears Pagano and his coaching staff have coached up Melvin and Desir to be outstanding corners.  Melvin holds Antonio Brown to three catches for 47 yards.  Thank God we didn't see Wilson on him.  Both Melvin and Desir are going to get big paydays this off season.   Looks to me like Wilson is another project player like Green and Clark. 

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20 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I never said Ballard is going to cut Wilson over Green.  Try rereading my post slowly.   Green's going first.  Wilson can't even get on the field.  He can't even get activated for most of the games. That's got to make Ballard feel real good.  On the other hand it appears Pagano and his coaching staff have coached up Melvin and Desir to be outstanding corners.  Melvin holds Antonio Brown to three catches for 47 yards.  Thank God we didn't see Wilson on him.  Both Melvin and Desir are going to get big paydays this off season.   Looks to me like Wilson is another project player like Green and Clark. 

 

Wilson is not a project player. He was one of the highest ranked corners coming into last year's draft, and he's only 21 years old. He held his own very well in the Arizona game before getting sidelined by a knee injury, so calling him a bust is just flat out wrong. Green on the other had was one of the worst safeties in college football when he came out, and he still looks like he has no idea what he's doing after 1.5 seasons in the NFL. Apples to oranges.

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42 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Wilson is not a project player. He was one of the highest ranked corners coming into last year's draft, and he's only 21 years old. He held his own very well in the Arizona game before getting sidelined by a knee injury, so calling him a bust is just flat out wrong. Green on the other had was one of the worst safeties in college football when he came out, and he still looks like he has no idea what he's doing after 1.5 seasons in the NFL. Apples to oranges.

There is no doubt Wilson was a highly ranked prospect coming out and I, for one ,thought he would become our no. 2 corner sometime this year.  Unfortunately he has not come close to those expectations.  In fact he has been called out for not putting out in practice.  Apparently his attitude is not where it should be.  That is not a recipe for success.  Maybe he can turn it around.  I hope so, he was a high draft pick, but as you know being a high draft pick guarantees you nothing.  He wouldn't be the first high prospect to bomb out.   Unfortunately it's become a project just to get him motivated to practice.  He needs a good talking to from his mama.  He's not the big man on campus anymore.  He needs to get with the program fast.  Two guys, Melvin and Desir,  have already shown they want to work for it more than him.   

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8 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Zero points scored in the 2nd half, yet another 14 point lead squandered. And TJ Green wouldn’t even be on this roster if not for Pagano. So yeah, I’m gonna blame Chuck.

We did score a TD early in the 3rd quarter. Agree with your overall point though.

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9 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Gee, I wonder how many fan's we will lose if Ballard decides to give Pagano one last shot. I want him gone as much as anybody, but most of you act as though if he gets an extension, the whole team will be ruined and then kicked out of the league for being terrible. Good grief people! It's not the end of the world!

Chuck doesn't need an extension he is under contract for 2 more years , I think.

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4 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Long story short, one of our best defensive efforts in recent memory was completely wasted because our HC insists on making sure that TJ Green gets snaps, while Quincy Wilson is active and on the sideline (zero snaps in yesterday's game). If that's not on Pagano, then who's to blame?

Was green playing nickel  corner or safety?  I'm really not sure.   Melvin and desir have played great this year though

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1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Wilson is not a project player. He was one of the highest ranked corners coming into last year's draft, and he's only 21 years old. He held his own very well in the Arizona game before getting sidelined by a knee injury, so calling him a bust is just flat out wrong. Green on the other had was one of the worst safeties in college football when he came out, and he still looks like he has no idea what he's doing after 1.5 seasons in the NFL. Apples to oranges.

Maybe Wilson just isn't as good as you think

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19 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

We all need to remember must remember that we are fans and have no say in what is done and it is a waste of time to act like we do

 

 

Aw crap! I thought we were deliberating strategy for the front office.

Edited by Roger
typo
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5 hours ago, Coltsagent said:

Why should Chuck go....simple ANY coach that takes a knee with 30 seconds left, 2 time outs and ball on your own 20 just before half. That is COWARD coaching.

Yet others would be here screaming for his head if Brisset through a pick six. Chuck has been very loyal to this organization. Furthermore, he's a good man. Hopefully he stays on board.

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6 hours ago, tucky89 said:

Yet others would be here screaming for his head if Brisset through a pick six. Chuck has been very loyal to this organization. Furthermore, he's a good man. Hopefully he stays on board.

 

Agree with everything but the last sentence. 

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The whole point about the knee before half is it illustrates Chuck to a T...he plays not to lose, instead of playing to win. Think about it....do you think Peyton would have EVER taken a knee in the situation?

 

Furthermore we let Peyton walk and then he turns around and wins another Super Bowl...we did that for what? THIS MESS!!!  Come on!! We could have had Andrew behind Peyton for 3 years (see A. Rogers) and he would be at the helm now and not on IR.

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5 minutes ago, Coltsagent said:

The whole point about the knee before half is it illustrates Chuck to a T...he plays not to lose, instead of playing to win. Think about it....do you think Peyton would have EVER taken a knee in the situation?

 

Furthermore we let Peyton walk and then he turns around and wins another Super Bowl...we did that for what? THIS MESS!!!  Come on!! We could have had Andrew behind Peyton for 3 years (see A. Rogers) and he would be at the helm now and not on IR.

Denver's D won Peyton another superbowl. He wasn't the same after his injury. I'm glad he left and got another Superbowl

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1 hour ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Grigson drafted him,?? Why would Pagano want him and then draft a safety the following year in the frist round all be it if Pagano loved Green. When Pagano talks about Green I ain't hearing love!

Pagano was pounding on the table saying they needed to draft Green.   It is well documented and has been mentioned in here a million times.   Green is most definitely a Pagano guy.  

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3 hours ago, Reidm said:

Denver's D won Peyton another superbowl. He wasn't the same after his injury. I'm glad he left and got another Superbowl

Well he did have two really good seasons with Denver after we let him go and broke the TD record. It wasn't his injury that ended him it was Father Time. 

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34 minutes ago, Trace Pyott said:

Well he did have two really good seasons with Denver after we let him go and broke the TD record. It wasn't his injury that ended him it was Father Time. 

That was the biggest drop off in performance - ever.  He really sucked at the end. 

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19 hours ago, Coltsagent said:

The whole point about the knee before half is it illustrates Chuck to a T...he plays not to lose, instead of playing to win. Think about it....do you think Peyton would have EVER taken a knee in the situation?

 

Furthermore we let Peyton walk and then he turns around and wins another Super Bowl...we did that for what? THIS MESS!!!  Come on!! We could have had Andrew behind Peyton for 3 years (see A. Rogers) and he would be at the helm now and not on IR.

That's a pretty bad illustration.  Brissett ain't Peyton and we are scoring 17 points a game for a reason.  It's because we don't execute well enough to overcome our mistakes.   And we've seen Brissetts mistakes usually turn into 7 points for the other team.   Taking a knee was the right decision in that situation.

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How is taking a knee with 30 seconds & 2 timeouts the "right decision"? Why not even TRY? Why not throw a screen, run a drawn or try to get a PI, at least SEE if you get a 20 yard chunk. Why just give up? There is time on the clock....use it! What you are saying about Brissett not being a Peyton is my entire point...by taking knee you are admitting you are NOT good without even TRYIING to be. How can you ever be good in the 2 minute if you are to scared to run it?

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On 11/12/2017 at 4:55 PM, JCPatriot said:

 

So if we do not include player execution or player composure among the things that reflect upon the head coach, then can you tell me what, specifically, he did well today.  You say that he coached a good game.  Can you give me some specific examples of the things that he did well today?

 

You have to remember that the bar is set very low for Chuck.  As long as he doesn't screw up with an errant timeout or lack of a timeout, a bad challenge, or a bad trick play he coached a great game.  

 

I don't place all of the blame on him though but I think we all know what we are going to get with him.  If Irsay and Ballard don't see Chuck getting another extension then they need to let him walk.  

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22 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Pagano was pounding on the table saying they needed to draft Green.   It is well documented and has been mentioned in here a million times.   Green is most definitely a Pagano guy.  

Hum, well documented first i have heard of it. Given the way  Pagano talks about Green I am not sure of that. Green would be his boy & I haven't seen or heard ANYTHING LIKE THAT FROM HIM. Now I do known Pagano liked Malik, and Geathers. If Pagano was so in love with Green I think the Colts would have PASSED on Hooker seeing the many GAPING HOLES on the team. JMO

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44 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Hum, well documented first i have heard of it. Given the way  Pagano talks about Green I am not sure of that. Green would be his boy & I haven't seen or heard ANYTHING LIKE THAT FROM HIM. Now I do known Pagano liked Malik, and Geathers. If Pagano was so in love with Green I think the Colts would have PASSED on Hooker seeing the many GAPING HOLES on the team. JMO

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/4/29/11542850/colts-would-have-drafted-t-j-green-with-original-second-round-pick-if-they-had-not-traded 

 

This is an article that mentions thoughts on Green when drafted.  The excerpt below is something I think they were referring to.  Not the exact words they mentioned, as Pagano was not pounding on a table....

 

"There was somebody standing on the table saying, 'let's go do it right now!  Let's not risk losing him!'" Pagano said.  "But yeah, great foresight and it all worked out.  We got two more picks and we get the same guy."

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1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/4/29/11542850/colts-would-have-drafted-t-j-green-with-original-second-round-pick-if-they-had-not-traded 

 

This is an article that mentions thoughts on Green when drafted.  The excerpt below is something I think they were referring to.  Not the exact words they mentioned, as Pagano was not pounding on a table....

 

"There was somebody standing on the table saying, 'let's go do it right now!  Let's not risk losing him!'" Pagano said.  "But yeah, great foresight and it all worked out.  We got two more picks and we get the same guy."

Thanks your right the article doesn't say Pagano, so who knows at this point, but certainly were Green was picked, you would like to see him play better!

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16 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Thanks your right the article doesn't say Pagano, so who knows at this point, but certainly were Green was picked, you would like to see him play better!

Where Green was picked I still question every scout, assistant coach, Grigson, and Pagano.  Look this guy was not worth an early 2nd round pick let alone the late 2nd we used on him.  They said they wanted him with their original but traded back and were happy he was still there.  There is a reason he was still there, because no other team wanted a "project" this early in the draft.  To me, a smarter GM, would have continued to gamble and see if he was there in the 3rd.  Just bad decisions all around under that administration and I am glad Grigson is gone.  I am also a believer that a lot of picks have had Pagano's opinion and neither of them have shown a great ability to pick solid talent.  

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