Rick Venturi On JMV 9-11-2017

[Mr. Irrelevant]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't really care about anyone else's evaluation of him. The Colts thought he was good enough to handle the job in a short Luck absence; he didn't play bad against the Steelers last year, or in the preseason, but again, he doesn't have "it," and hasn't shown "it" at any point since he's been here. And after yesterday, it's plainly obvious that he's not good enough to handle the job for a short time, much less a long time.

 

The Colts kind of handed the job to him in the offseason, then treated him as if he was a quality backup and didn't need all the prep in the world. They didn't allow him to get pressed very heavily in the preseason, and they acted like he would just click on in Week 1, no problem. They miscalculated pretty much every step along the way, IMO.

 

And I gave them the benefit of the doubt the whole time. I have no doubt they were confident he'd play well enough to give the team a chance to win, which is why they didn't really challenge him. They just missed on him.

 

Ballard traded for Brissett for a reason. Chuck and co. might have been telling him that Tolzien could do it, but I think (hope?) Ballard had another gut feeling about that. I don't think Brissett was a replacement for Morris, it was a replacement for Tolzien all along. He is history.

 

If he is not, Chuck is history. 

[jszfunk]

10 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

irsay needs to drop the bomb and fire several of the brain trust who are making bad decisions on talent and scheme

You mean Ballard?

[jszfunk]

1 hour ago, coltsfeva said:

 I like Rick V. He made good points about Tolzien, the lack of game planning, etc.

  The only question that kept going through my mind was - how much of the chaos was just inexperience of a team not playing together? 

   I mean, could it be the plans were there but the players didn't execute?

   I just hope to see an improvement this week, as I have tickets for the game. I hope something rises up in the players and coaches, when/if they hear these kinds of criticisms. I just wonder if they can muster up confidence when they played as bad as they did.

 

Good points on the ,chaos, inexperience and team not playing together. But should it be as bad as it was.? Dunno know. My mind says no in a way.

I hope to see some improvement also. You  think that these "HIGHLY PAID PROFESSIONAL'S" would be embarrassed  that they would want to step it up and play some ball.

 

  I did not expect them to win, but they got a beat down from a team that was pretty bad last year. Maybe they(Rams) made some improvements, but not what happened a couple of days ago.  Being ill prepared is  a coaching staff issue, If it's talent, that's on Ballard. It seems like everyone was infatuated with the moves he was making after he came in. I am just waiting to see how they come to fruition.

 

This team is beyond the help of AL being behind center right now.

[Restored]

18 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

That's the point I made is that the Colts saw SOMETHING in him that others didn't. Like you I think they HANDED him the job too easy. I thought they should have given Josh Freeman another look before they brought in Tolzien last year. At least he had some nfl wins under his belt and had shown a lot of promise in Tampa until the new staff under first time nfl hc Greg Schiano came in. I just hope Luck is not out too much longer but that all depends on his health and by no means should they rush him back if he's not 100%

 

Here's the thing. A LOT of coaches and front office staff around the league have ego's the size of Saturn. They are stubborn on players that sometimes the rest of the world can see aren't good. Some don't want their evaluations to be proven wrong while others continue to see things in practice or elsewhere that lead them to believe a player is better than he actually is. I'm led to believe that Pagano and his staff were likely stubborn when it came to Tolzien even though the rest of the world could see he wasn't the best option.

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, jszfunk said:

You mean Ballard?

whoever is responsible for this mess, irsay knows who needs to go

[BProland85]

I really hope Ballard listens in to what Venturi says when criticizing his team. Venturi is absolutely right. Coaches are being completely incompetent, as well as stubborn which isn't a good mix. Play your young players like Wilson, Hairston, Mack, and for the love of God put Basham at the rush LB position where he belongs. And why they released Morris over Tolzien I'll never know. 

 

I'm really beginning to question if some of these coaches and staff know how to judge talent. Mainly I'm speaking about Pagano and Philbin. Philbin was the guy who really wanted Banner. 

[Jackie Daytona]

14 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

irsay needs to drop the bomb and fire several of the brain trust who are making bad decisions on talent and scheme

The team already did clear out a bunch of the scouting staff after the Draft..... they will start being evaluated next offseason and season......  so, firing those guys would be counterproductive, they didn't have any input really this offseason.

[OffensivelyPC]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't really care about anyone else's evaluation of him. The Colts thought he was good enough to handle the job in a short Luck absence; he didn't play bad against the Steelers last year, or in the preseason, but again, he doesn't have "it," and hasn't shown "it" at any point since he's been here. And after yesterday, it's plainly obvious that he's not good enough to handle the job for a short time, much less a long time.

 

The Colts kind of handed the job to him in the offseason, then treated him as if he was a quality backup and didn't need all the prep in the world. They didn't allow him to get pressed very heavily in the preseason, and they acted like he would just click on in Week 1, no problem. They miscalculated pretty much every step along the way, IMO.

 

And I gave them the benefit of the doubt the whole time. I have no doubt they were confident he'd play well enough to give the team a chance to win, which is why they didn't really challenge him. They just missed on him.

How do you think that reflects on Ballard's evaluation of players?  Without knowing who pulled for him, it's kind of hard to say.  Though, even if Chuck was the one who wanted him, Ballard still acquiesced.  Probably its too early to say anything about Ballard's ability to evaluate players, but he did bring in Brissett too.  I just have to wonder what they saw in him that we all didn't see, or at least what they saw in him over Morris.  A miscalculation for sure.  Hope its not a sign of things to come...

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Told you dudes that Hankins and Sheard are trash. I'll never understand how so many of you get excited over mid level signings like that. Those are the type of dudes you sign when you already have good players at the position as it'll make them look even better

[The Fish]

11 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I look at Irsay and think you are right where you were in 2011.  The only difference is your QB isn't out for the season this time.  How on earth he let the backup QB poistion become so poor is beyond in defesiveable after what he saw in 2011.

I don't think this is just like 2011.

If it was, we just started Curtis Painter (Tolzien) instead of Kerry Collins (anyone else).

 

 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Told you dudes that Hankins and Sheard are trash. I'll never understand how so many of you get excited over mid level signings like that. Those are the type of dudes you sign when you already have good players at the position as it'll make them look even better

 

Hankins and Sheard played fine. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

How do you think that reflects on Ballard's evaluation of players?  Without knowing who pulled for him, it's kind of hard to say.  Though, even if Chuck was the one who wanted him, Ballard still acquiesced.  Probably its too early to say anything about Ballard's ability to evaluate players, but he did bring in Brissett too.  I just have to wonder what they saw in him that we all didn't see, or at least what they saw in him over Morris.  A miscalculation for sure.  Hope its not a sign of things to come...

 

I don't know. If the coaching staff says 'this is the guy I want,' I think the GM should let them have that guy, especially when it's a player they have history with, and especially at QB. Irsay said they considered another veteran QB but didn't move on it because of cost, but I feel like they would have pulled the trigger if the coaching staff was pushing for an upgrade at the most important position.

 

I think this speaks mostly to the coaching staff, not Ballard. This decision helps Ballard evaluate the coaching staff thoroughly. The primary issue with the Grigson/Pagano relationship was reportedly Grigson meddling with lineup changes, etc. If in fact Ballard gave Pagano what he wanted at QB, there won't be any blurred lines about why Tolzien is the guy -- it will be because Pagano (and staff) wanted him. 

 

Ballard made it pretty clear why they chose Tolzien over Morris. Taking him at his word, I get that decision. First, Morris is very overrated here (not saying he doesn't have good traits, just that he's not the answer to all our problems like people think). Second, if your QB doesn't prepare well, practice well, or has other behind the scenes issues that bring his reliability into question, it's hard to put your confidence in him. Ballard expressed that decision as if he fully supported it.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Told you dudes that Hankins and Sheard are trash. I'll never understand how so many of you get excited over mid level signings like that. Those are the type of dudes you sign when you already have good players at the position as it'll make them look even better

 

And posts like this are probably why no one paid attention to you. Youre using the results of their first game playing together in our defense as proof that you were right for calling them trash? Ridiculous. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

And posts like this are probably why no one paid attention to you. Youre using the results of their first game playing together in our defense as proof that you were right for calling them trash? Ridiculous. 

 

He's actually NOT using the results of their first game together, because they actually had acceptable games. I'm not using the word "good" because the result was so ugly, but I have no complaints about the DL. 

 

Anyone who thought we were getting Kawann Short and Von Miller just wasn't paying attention. Neither Hankins nor Sheard are good pass rushers. So we can complain about the lack of pass rush, but that's like complaining that your dog doesn't fly. Dogs guard the house, and Sheard and Hankins stood guard as well as they were expected to. 

[OffensivelyPC]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know. If the coaching staff says 'this is the guy I want,' I think the GM should let them have that guy, especially when it's a player they have history with, and especially at QB. Irsay said they considered another veteran QB but didn't move on it because of cost, but I feel like they would have pulled the trigger if the coaching staff was pushing for an upgrade at the most important position.

 

I think this speaks mostly to the coaching staff, not Ballard. This decision helps Ballard evaluate the coaching staff thoroughly. The primary issue with the Grigson/Pagano relationship was reportedly Grigson meddling with lineup changes, etc. If in fact Ballard gave Pagano what he wanted at QB, there won't be any blurred lines about why Tolzien is the guy -- it will be because Pagano (and staff) wanted him. 

 

Ballard made it pretty clear why they chose Tolzien over Morris. Taking him at his word, I get that decision. First, Morris is very overrated here (not saying he doesn't have good traits, just that he's not the answer to all our problems like people think). Second, if your QB doesn't prepare well, practice well, or has other behind the scenes issues that bring his reliability into question, it's hard to put your confidence in him. Ballard expressed that decision as if he fully supported it.

Agree with you on Morris, 20/20 hindsight and all.  Even if Morris was better, he wasn't so much better that he'd have kept us in that game.  It could have gone better, and while its hard to imagine how it could have been worse, it could always go worse.  I think Sunday's biggest incrimination lies on Pagano - I don't know how it could be anyone else.  For many of the reasons stated by Venturi, but my biggest complaint is that we just looked completely unprepared once again.  

 

I get that you don't have your starting elite level QB, but that's no excuse for getting utterly shredded in the passing game.  Whatever flashes he [EDIT: TJ GREEN] showed in preseason, it was clear he wasn't ready for significant snaps at the CB position, yet he got them anyway.  Wilson might have trouble getting turned around in coverage, but it seemed like Green was getting beat with regularity.  I don't get why Mack was in on goalline, particularly after the first hurry up play after the missed review opportunity.  Morrison looked lost half (dare I say uninterested?) the time and got washed up in blocks the other half.  Little creativity rushing hte passer.  Just a mess.

[Jason_]

33 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's actually NOT using the results of their first game together, because they actually had acceptable games. I'm not using the word "good" because the result was so ugly, but I have no complaints about the DL. 

 

Anyone who thought we were getting Kawann Short and Von Miller just wasn't paying attention. Neither Hankins nor Sheard are good pass rushers. So we can complain about the lack of pass rush, but that's like complaining that your dog doesn't fly. Dogs guard the house, and Sheard and Hankins stood guard as well as they were expected to. 

 

Good point.  yeah, I definitely misspoke...should have said TRYING to use one game's results

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, The Fish said:

I don't think this is just like 2011.

If it was, we just started Curtis Painter (Tolzien) instead of Kerry Collins (anyone else).

 

 

I do because the backup QB poistion was neglected again and is the main source of this teams issues.

[The Fish]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I do because the backup QB poistion was neglected again and is the main source of this teams issues.

 

I'm not trying to make some grand over arching point, so don't take this as some kind battle of wits..

I'm just saying that they didn't do the same thing as in 11'.. As evidenced by not getting a vet and trading for a backup- who's presumably better than a Painter or Orlovsky. They did do something different, it's just not working.

Tolzien has played 2 whopping games. Here's hoping that was it.

One element of all of this that people keep forgetting is that there's about 10/15 people alive who can actually play QB well.. None of them are backups..

 

[throwing BBZ]

4 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

How do you think that reflects on Ballard's evaluation of players?  Without knowing who pulled for him, it's kind of hard to say.  Though, even if Chuck was the one who wanted him, Ballard still acquiesced.  Probably its too early to say anything about Ballard's ability to evaluate players, but he did bring in Brissett too.  I just have to wonder what they saw in him that we all didn't see, or at least what they saw in him over Morris.  A miscalculation for sure.  Hope its not a sign of things to come...

 

Chuck and Chud both probably preferred Tolzien. Just made it easier to show them the door.
They couldn't have made it Clearer that Morris had a bad off season. Think about what that might entail. That Morris didn't work hard enough at it like a hungry Pro needed to.  ??

[superrep1967]

19 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

 little late in the season for that.   

 A little late in the season the season just started and coaches get fired at every time in the season. They have interim coaches. just like when Arians came in. 

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

 A little late in the season the season just started and coaches get fired at every time in the season. They have interim coaches. just like when Arians came in. 

Firing the coach now won't make the season any better.   

[throwing BBZ]

21 hours ago, jszfunk said:

I always enjoy listening to him. Great insight and always very honest. This week BRUTALLY honest and deservedly so.  

http://www.1070thefan.com/TheRideWithJMV

 

 I enjoy him too.
 Gotta laugh at his totally bashing Tolzien, and later says going in he thought we had a real chance to win.
 Lots of good insights.
 

[Superman]

35 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Just made it easier to show them the door.

 

Yup.

[Colt Overseas]

3 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 

 

I get that you don't have your starting elite level QB, but that's no excuse for getting utterly shredded in the passing game.  Whatever flashes he [EDIT: TJ GREEN] showed in preseason, it was clear he wasn't ready for significant snaps at the CB position, yet he got them anyway.  Wilson might have trouble getting turned around in coverage, but it seemed like Green was getting beat with regularity.  I don't get why Mack was in on goalline, particularly after the first hurry up play after the missed review opportunity.  Morrison looked lost half (dare I say uninterested?) the time and got washed up in blocks the other half.  Little creativity rushing hte passer.  Just a mess.

 

Playing Morrison at WILL LB is just asking for trouble. 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

 

I'm not trying to make some grand over arching point, so don't take this as some kind battle of wits..

I'm just saying that they didn't do the same thing as in 11'.. As evidenced by not getting a vet and trading for a backup- who's presumably better than a Painter or Orlovsky. They did do something different, it's just not working.

Tolzien has played 2 whopping games. Here's hoping that was it.

One element of all of this that people keep forgetting is that there's about 10/15 people alive who can actually play QB well.. None of them are backups..

 

The point I am getting at is that like 2011 they are woefully unprepared at back up QB.  It's shocking to see Jim Irsay let that happen again after 2011.

[dudeski]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Hankins and Sheard played fine. 

sheard was terrible

[Superman]

20 hours ago, dudeski said:

sheard was terrible

 

No he wasn't.

[Smoke317]

Most coaches are hesitant to openly criticize other coaches. Whether it's a "fraternal" type respect or what not, it's very rarely done. Whether the coach is long retired like Venturi or freshly unemployed like Rex Ryan.  To hear Venturi call Chuck & his staff INCOMPETENT is very telling.  

 

He's never been so direct. The writing is on the wall for Chuck & his staff.  Their "incompetence" is even getting Ballard criticism...  That spells doom for Chuck. So, say if Chuck & Chud role with Tolzien this Sunday & we get smashed again, I think Sunday could be Chuck's last game as HC of our Colts.  

 

So he'll definitely be starting Brissett because that would at the least give him a stay of execution.  For the time being...

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Most coaches are hesitant to openly criticize other coaches. Whether it's a "fraternal" type respect or what not, it's very rarely done. Whether the coach is long retired like Venturi or freshly unemployed like Rex Ryan.  To hear Venturi call Chuck & his staff INCOMPETENT is very telling.  

 

He's never been so direct. The writing is on the wall for Chuck & his staff.  Their "incompetence" is even getting Ballard criticism...  That spells doom for Chuck. So, say if Chuck & Chud role with Tolzien this Sunday & we get smashed again, I think Sunday could be Chuck's last game as HC of our Colts.  

 

So he'll definitely be starting Brissett because that would at the least give him a stay of execution.  For the time being...

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Chuck finishes the season, regardless of record. Irsay didn't fire Caldwell during an 0-13 start, which included a 62-7 thrashing on national TV. 

[Smoke317]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Chuck finishes the season, regardless of record. Irsay didn't fire Caldwell during an 0-13 start, which included a 62-7 thrashing on national TV. 

But we didn't have 2 former HC's on the roster ready to fill in...  If this season is "proven" to be a complete & total disaster, I can easily see Irsay deferring to Ballard & letting him decide.  And I don't think Ballard is gonna sit back & let the organization he's supposed to be leading for the next decade earn the label of being "incompetent".  

 

I think it's very possible that Chuck could not finish out the season.  But Chuck is the master of mediocrity. So I still don't rule out anything from 7-9 to 11-5.  Both of those would still include 2-4 games given away by poor scheme, poor adjustments, poor preparation or just flat out incompetence. 

 

And Caldwell wasn't a bad coach. He's definitely a much better coach than Chuck. He was Polian's yes man though so I was fine with him getting fired even though I felt he was kind of scapegoated...  Chuck has had similar blowouts throughout his tenure. Way too many in fact and I don't blame it all on lack of talent.

 

I think it's lack of coaching & improvement. Chuck's calling cards have been the team looking unprepared too often , getting blown out by both good & bad teams, dumb in game decisions, & a failure to improve players or scheme to their strengths.

 

I've seen enough of the Pagano experiment.  In hindsight, I wonder if we would have been better off with Caldwell???  Peyton says he helped him greatly as a QB. Led Flacco to a ring, & even made Stafford a better QB. I wonder what he could have done for a young Luck?

[Smoke317]

Supe. Do you think another performance like the Ram's game could lead to Ballard feeling the need to micromanage Chuck rather than fire him or do you think he'll just give Chuck all the rope he needs to hang himself all season?

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Supe. Do you think another performance like the Ram's game could lead to Ballard feeling the need to micromanage Chuck rather than fire him or do you think he'll just give Chuck all the rope he needs to hang himself all season?

 

If the Tolzien situation is any indication, I don't think Ballard will be hovering over Chuck at all.

 

Everyone has kind of decided that the Colts are going to have a terrible year because they were terrible in the opener. That's not easy to argue against. But that is likely the worst game we'll have all year (let's hope). Like you said, it's possible they'll bounce back and have a respectable season. I still don't think Chuck should stay beyond this season. 

[throwing BBZ]

12 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

But we didn't have 2 former HC's on the roster ready to fill in...  If this season is "proven" to be a complete & total disaster, I can easily see Irsay deferring to Ballard & letting him decide.  And I don't think Ballard is gonna sit back & let the organization he's supposed to be leading for the next decade earn the label of being "incompetent".  

 

I think it's very possible that Chuck could not finish out the season.  But Chuck is the master of mediocrity. So I still don't rule out anything from 7-9 to 11-5.  Both of those would still include 2-4 games given away by poor scheme, poor adjustments, poor preparation or just flat out incompetence. 

 

And Caldwell wasn't a bad coach. He's definitely a much better coach than Chuck. He was Polian's yes man though so I was fine with him getting fired even though I felt he was kind of scapegoated...  Chuck has had similar blowouts throughout his tenure. Way too many in fact and I don't blame it all on lack of talent.

 

I think it's lack of coaching & improvement. Chuck's calling cards have been the team looking unprepared too often , getting blown out by both good & bad teams, dumb in game decisions, & a failure to improve players or scheme to their strengths.

 

I've seen enough of the Pagano experiment.  In hindsight, I wonder if we would have been better off with Caldwell???  o says he helped him greatly as a QB. Led Flacco to a ring, & even made Stafford a better QB. I wonder what he could have done for a young Luck?

 

Stafford made his leap when they went to the current OC.
    

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

But we didn't have 2 former HC's on the roster ready to fill in...

 

I don't see how that matters when you're 0-4, 0-7, 0-10, 0-13... 

 

I guess you're suggesting that the season can be salvaged by turning it over to Chud or Philbin sooner rather than later, but I don't think that's in the cards. If Irsay is going to dismiss the coach, he's going to want a clean break, not try to limp along with the holdovers from a malfunctioning staff. JMO, but I think all the evidence points to Pagano finishing the season.

[DougDew]

If the season is a lost cause, and it probably will be, Irsay/Ballard could still fire the staff and hire a new HC and OC and implement a new offense.  At least practicing the new O under game conditions could be a benefit for next season.

 

Of course, availability of the guy you want could be a problem....but Gruden?

[krunk]

I think they are going to play their behinds off on Sunday in terms of effort.  Not sure if they'll get the W, but hopefully so.

[Smoke317]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Stafford made his leap when they went to the current OC.
    

Stafford's game improved when they hired Caldwell. His turnovers dropped and his completion percentage and success improved.  Can't give Caldwell credit huh???  Now, sure Jim Bob Cooter deserves some credit for his further improvement but it was Caldwell that sparked the growth he's currently on. 

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Chuck finishes the season, regardless of record. Irsay didn't fire Caldwell during an 0-13 start, which included a 62-7 thrashing on national TV. 

.that was a pretty different situation though. He wound up firing polian and at first, he and grigson were at the very least considering the idea of keeping Caldwell.

 

So with Caldwell, they didnt even make the final call on him until a couple of weeks after the season ended. They could very well make the final determination on pagano well before the season ends. 

 

Not saying that pagano won't survive the season...gun to my head id say the same, that he does. But I think the caldwell situation was different enough that I wouldnt use that as historical evidence/tendency for Pagano's situation.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

If the season is a lost cause, and it probably will be, Irsay/Ballard could still fire the staff and hire a new HC and OC and implement a new offense.  At least practicing the new O under game conditions could be a benefit for next season.

 

Of course, availability of the guy you want could be a problem....but Gruden?

 

It would have to be gruden or someone else like him. Cowher? Otherwise they can't really do any kind of real search until the season is over. 

[stitches]

There really are 4 reasons to fire the coach right now(as opposed to end of the season):

1. You think the new coach can turn things around and win with this team.

2. The current coach has lost the lockerroom and has created an atmosphere in the lockerroom that is likely to cause long-term harm.

3. The current coach is actively hurting the development of the young players and you think a new/interim coach will be better.

4. You can get the long-term coach you want right now.

 

I don't think this team has enough talent to win consistently in the league right now thus I don't think 1. applies. I don't think Pagano seems to be well liked by his players so I don't think 2 applies either. We are in part of the season where I think the best candidates for the job are employed and not likely to leave their job for the Colts mid-season, so I think 4 doesn't apply, either. I think 3 is really the only reason you would want to push for a change right now, but even then I'm not sure an interim coach will be that much better.