Who likes a challenge? Defend Pagano

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Although, this defense is much more talented than last years.    They could use a coach though.

They let Goff get over 300 yards they still seem to suck so far 

[Jaric]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

I'm not sure I can anymore. 

 

I'm still flabbergasted by that rushed call to avoid the Mack TD.  

But teh cancer!

[Blue Horseshoe]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

They let Goff get over 300 yards they still seem to suck so far 

It was his first 300 yard game and his first win ever as a pro, by 37 points

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Blue Horseshoe said:

It was his first 300 yard game and his first win ever as a pro, by 37 points

Yeah it's screwed up lol

[Blue Horseshoe]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think Ballard has been stealth tanking and sabotaging Pagano. There is no other way to explain why we started the season with Tolzien under center. He traded for a QB just long enough before the start of the season so the new QB wouldn't be ready to start and so he can still say "Well I traded for a QB"... i think he's also been making moves that are clearly with an eye to the future of the team, not the present. The new QB, the punter/kicker the snapper... waiving vets across the Dline and O-line in favor of rookies who have future upside but are currently not up to par, etc.

 

Don't mistake this for me thinking Pagano has anything to do with good coaching. I think he's a horrible coach. People have said before they think he's average. I don't agree... I think he's straight up bad... but he hasn't really been put in a position to succeed right now with the injuries and the roster we got.

 

Also, don't mistake this for me disapproving of what Ballard is doing - I think we should be looking toward the future and not the present. This season was never about competing for a SB. This season was about getting young players and developing them for the future.

So then, they are "Sucking for Not Chuck?"

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I think that play completely changed the game.  The Colts had a little momentum going and had a chance to keep the game close.  Good play by Mack, but mistakes by the refs and then the Colts coaches ruined the drive.  They still had a chance from the goalline and came out with 3 WRs instead of a Goalline offense...  Was it any surprise they couldn't punch it in from the SHOTGUN formation? 

 

 

The Colts probably weren't going to overcome Tolzien throwing a pick-six TWICE, but that play took any momentum from the Colts and gave it all to LA.

 

Didn't Vinatieri miss his first FG attempt of the season, too? ...  eesh  It was like we were stuck in quick-sand the whole game.

 

 

I think the outcome could have been different.  

[dodsworth]

1 minute ago, Blue Horseshoe said:

So then, they are "Sucking for Not Chuck?"

Suck for no Chuck.

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Suck for no Chuck.

If it were basketball it would be - Chuck for no Chuck.

[2006Coltsbestever]

No Andrew Luck is his only defense.

[Coltgoat]

Been a fan since 1976 so have seen a bunch of crappy Colts play through the years BUT never have I seen such a moronic display of ineptitude by a coach!

wth? My peewee football coach knew more about the game then this buffoon.

Yes Andrew Luck has covered a lot of it through his great comebacks but anyone with a decent IQ can see the team has been lifeless, poor starts, unprepared, no in game changes, poor play calling, etc..

Yes I know it is other coaches too but at this point it is chucks hand picked staff after throwing all the old ones under the bus to save his sorry *. So this is complete and utter nonsense in my opinion.

Will always love my Colts but this #$%& has to end. Have always liked Irsay but this is way beyond * poor coaching and an embarrassment to this great organization. Fire Pagano stat. Freakin' Bozo the Clown could be less dysfunctional here!!!

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 

 Nice guys finish last. Irsay is responsible for Grigson who ultimately failed.

 Of course i believe Irsay's Mentoring hands were all over the Disastrous Richardson, Werner moves. And likely more.

 

 Now we can finish worse than my previous 6-10 prediction and draft us a STUD, or two, or three.
  Keep Chuck as long as ya can Jimmy, and keep starting Painter, uh i mean Tolzien at least until our Great center gets back fully healthy, then Lucky can stand behind Your line.            Yeeehaaa Go Colts.

 

 

Tony Dungy.

[Smonroe]

I'll try to defend him as a coach, but not as a head coach.  Sometimes guys like Marinelli, Wade Phillips, maybe even Philbin reach their high water mark as Coordinators.  And sometime the HC job is too much.

 

I'm not sure who we'd get to replace him if the team doesn't turn around in the next four or five games. 

 

I've said this many times - I don't expect a winning season but I do expect progress.

 

[JimJaime]

My defense is using the Tuna words "they don't let him pick the groceries then expect a steak and potatoe dinner when all you have is some dried up chicken a fava beans with a porterhouse steak still frozen for 3-4 more weeks. Lol in other words he doesn't make the decisions on who to draft or who to keep so he is at the mercy of your GM.

[jameszeigler834]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

I'm not sure of the rules.   Can the refs call for a review at any time?    I thought only scoring plays.   

They should have buzzed down from up in the booth cause that was a touchdown.

[jameszeigler834]

3 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Refs called him out of bounds.  It was a non scoring play as called, so no automatic review.  A review would have to be via a coach's challenge.

Well then pagano should have challenged that horrendous call then.

[Myles]

Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

Well then pagano should have challenged that horrendous call then.

That's what everyone, I mean everyone says.    Pagano blew it big time. 

 

I googled to see the play again and this article from 2015 can up.   He hasn't improved.   

https://horseshoeheroes.com/2015/12/22/chuck-paganos-colts-rank-as-one-of-nfls-worst-at-successful-challenges/

[AustexColt]

I can't defend Pagano. I am not sure he can either. 

 

[jameszeigler834]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

That's what everyone, I mean everyone says.    Pagano blew it big time. 

 

I googled to see the play again and this article from 2015 can up.   He hasn't improved.   

https://horseshoeheroes.com/2015/12/22/chuck-paganos-colts-rank-as-one-of-nfls-worst-at-successful-challenges/

Pagano cant coach his way out of a wet paper bag.

[Jackie Daytona]

He can't be eaten...... and no one likes to play with the grand-kids more than Chuck.

[RollerColt]

Over Chuck's guidance, we have only won one season opener: 2013 against the Raiders...

 

2012: Loss against the Bears

2013: Win against the Raiders

2014: Loss against the Broncos

2015: Loss against the Bills

2016: Loss against the Lions

2017: Loss against the Rams

 

Pretty sad honestly. The statistic doesn't mean too much in the grand scheme of things, but dang it would be nice to win a season opener again. 

[Devildog]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

Hey, C'mon, you are supposed to be defending him.

 

How about:

He's been preparing to play the 49rs all preseason.   The Rams threw him off.  

 

 

Ok, I'll defend him...

 

Yesterday,  I think he did a good job auditioning for a high school coaching job.

[Superman]

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

I can't.

 

Jim Irsay said he expected Pagano to have his best year as a coach. He's not off to a good start.

 

Preparation: They knew it was a long shot for Luck to be ready Week 1, and they had all preseason to get Tolzien ready. They didn't. They failed to even properly evaluate him, because they treated him like an entrenched starter rather than an inexperienced and limited backup. That misplaced confidence in him likely led to him winning the job all the way back to OTAs, which has proved to be a mistake top to bottom. If the lack of urgency that I perceived in preseason was influencing decisions throughout the offseason, then they really shot themselves in the foot. Then they got destroyed by a not-so-good team (we think; the Rams might wind up being better than expected, but yesterday was probably not a good judge of that). For the fourth year in a row, they lose the opener, the game for which you have the most time to prepare. 

 

Game management: Pagano has had issues with this in the past, from poorly timed timeouts to bad challenges. Situational decision making is even more critical when you're playing with one hand tied behind your back -- starting QB out, starting OL a jumbled mess, banged up secondary -- and Pagano blew the one big opportunity to show that he had a good grasp on this. You should be eager to challenge plays that affect the score, especially in the first half, on the road, with a backup QB. Instead, they went hurry-up and probably didn't even see a good replay to make a decision. 

 

The Colts might turn it around this week and have a great year. But as of right now, it would be disingenuous of me to even try to defend Pagano. And even if I did try, I wouldn't know where to start.

 

Chance of Pagano returning in 2018, as of right now: 5%

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

I think enough time has passed so that we don't have to keep him because he fought leukemia.  I understood when Arians was allowed to leave.   Would have been a PR nightmare if we would have kept Arians instead.  

 

 

They didn't keep Pagano over Arians because Pagano had cancer. They kept him for the same reason they hired him the year before, because they thought he could be a good coach. Arians was available in 2012 just like Pagano, and they didn't even consider him. 

[Jackie Daytona]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

Chance of Pagano returning in 2018, as of right now: 5%

Hey, that means there is a 95% chance I will have renewed faith and interest in the 2018 version of the Colts!

[Mr. Irrelevant]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

I can't.

 

Jim Irsay said he expected Pagano to have his best year as a coach. He's not off to a good start.

 

Preparation: They knew it was a long shot for Luck to be ready Week 1, and they had all preseason to get Tolzien ready. They didn't. They failed to even properly evaluate him, because they treated him like an entrenched starter rather than an inexperienced and limited backup. That misplaced confidence in him likely led to him winning the job all the way back to OTAs, which has proved to be a mistake top to bottom. If the lack of urgency that I perceived in preseason was influencing decisions throughout the offseason, then they really shot themselves in the foot. Then they got destroyed by a not-so-good team (we think; the Rams might wind up being better than expected, but yesterday was probably not a good judge of that). For the fourth year in a row, they lose the opener, the game for which you have the most time to prepare. 

 

Game management: Pagano has had issues with this in the past, from poorly timed timeouts to bad challenges. Situational decision making is even more critical when you're playing with one hand tied behind your back -- starting QB out, starting OL a jumbled mess, banged up secondary -- and Pagano blew the one big opportunity to show that he had a good grasp on this. You should be eager to challenge plays that affect the score, especially in the first half, on the road, with a backup QB. Instead, they went hurry-up and probably didn't even see a good replay to make a decision. 

 

The Colts might turn it around this week and have a great year. But as of right now, it would be disingenuous of me to even try to defend Pagano. And even if I did try, I wouldn't know where to start.

 

Chance of Pagano returning in 2018, as of right now: 5%

 

5% is probably too high. I think Irsay is getting himself ready for a change sooner rather than later. 

[Smonroe]

13 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

He can't be eaten...... and no one likes to play with the grand-kids more than Chuck.

 

You don't know that...

[gacoop1]

Again, Pagano is the HC and should be responsible for the operation in the game along with his assistants.  My concern is during that potential Mack TD, where are his brain dead assistants in the Booth who is supposed to relay info regarding close encounters like that.  That's why the Team is asleep as their coaches .  Sad for us fans that have to endure another loosing season unless Pagano gets his walking papers soon. 

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They didn't keep Pagano over Arians because Pagano had cancer. They kept him for the same reason they hired him the year before, because they thought he could be a good coach. Arians was available in 2012 just like Pagano, and they didn't even consider him. 

I disagree.   It could be for either reason.   Arians did a great job.    Most people thought he was the better coach at the time.   Maybe Irsay didn't, but he can't seem to judge very well.  

[Myles]

1 minute ago, gacoop1 said:

Again, Pagano is the HC and should be responsible for the operation in the game along with his assistants.  My concern is during that potential Mack TD, where are his brain dead assistants in the Booth who is supposed to relay info regarding close encounters like that.  That's why the Team is asleep as their coaches .  Sad for us fans that have to endure another loosing season unless Pagano gets his walking papers soon. 

I think they were probably yelling WAIT! WAIT!  Why are you rushing the play?   Most other coaches would walk up and ask Mack if he thought he made it.  

[Jaric]

8 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

You don't know that...

Correct.  Human flesh is remarkably similar to pig flesh, meaning any method of preparing pork should be transferable to our embattled head coach.

[lollygagger8]

4 hours ago, Myles said:

Hey, C'mon, you are supposed to be defending him.

 

How about:

He's been preparing to play the 49rs all preseason.   The Rams threw him off.  

 

 

Maybe he learned prepping for someone other than you are playing from Vontae 

 

 

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, Myles said:

I disagree.   It could be for either reason.   Arians did a great job.    Most people thought he was the better coach at the time.   Maybe Irsay didn't, but he can't seem to judge very well.  

 

There was no reason to consider a coaching change after 2012. Arians did a good job in Pagano's absence, but the plan was always for Pagano to return to the job he had just been hired for. They didn't plan on Arians leaving, but good for him finally getting a shot as a head coach, and he's done a good job (I think he's a little overrated, especially here, but he's still good, IMO). 

 

Acting like Irsay only kept Pagano because of the cancer is silly. Again, they completed an exhaustive coaching search in 2012, and Arians wasn't even on the list. All the reasons they chose Pagano in the first place are the reasons they kept him. 

 

Also, Irsay has made good coaching decisions for a long time. Hiring Pagano wasn't a mistake, he did a good job initially, but he's not the right coach for a team that wants to contend. 

[ukcolt12]

This challenge i.e. to defend Pagano is just not possible.  So just like Chuck himself I will not be throwing in the red flag to this specific thread

[Jason_]

27 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think they were probably yelling WAIT! WAIT!  Why are you rushing the play?   Most other coaches would walk up and ask Mack if he thought he made it.  

 

I hope not.  Most other HCs should be calling up to the coaches in the booth.  It doesn't matter if the player thinks he got in or not...it would make no difference if Mack says he did get in but there wasn't a definitive replay proving it so the HC calls his guys upstairs (or..should) to see if there's a clean enough replay to be able to win a challenge. 

[Myles]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 Hiring Pagano wasn't a mistake, he did a good job initially, but he's not the right coach for a team that wants to contend. 

Which makes him a mistake.   

 

Most fans could see that he wasn't good years ago.   He got pass after pass partially because of his illness.  

[Myles]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

I hope not.  Most other HCs should be calling up to the coaches in the booth.  It doesn't matter if the player thinks he got in or not...it would make no difference if Mack says he did get in but there wasn't a definitive replay proving it so the HC calls his guys upstairs (or..should) to see if there's a clean enough replay to be able to win a challenge. 

I notice many coaches get the players opinion before contacting the booth.    Definitely before rushing the next play.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Myles said:

Which makes him a mistake.   

 

Most fans could see that he wasn't good years ago.   He got pass after pass partially because of his illness.  

 

I disagree with this from top to bottom. Fans have been critical of Pagano since before it was warranted. The Colts were going further in the playoffs his first three years, and people were calling for him to be fired, which was simply dumb. Getting rid of Pagano after 2015 would have been harsh, but probably was the right thing to do at that time. Hiring him in the first place and keeping him through 2015 was not a mistake, at all. 

 

And there's just no reason to believe that he got any passes because of his illness. None, at all. Irsay kept him because he believed in him, and there was plenty of reason to give him time to prove himself over the first four years. Had nothing to do with him being sick. 

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree with this from top to bottom. Fans have been critical of Pagano since before it was warranted. The Colts were going further in the playoffs his first three years, and people were calling for him to be fired, which was simply dumb. Getting rid of Pagano after 2015 would have been harsh, but probably was the right thing to do at that time. Hiring him in the first place and keeping him through 2015 was not a mistake, at all. 

 

And there's just no reason to believe that he got any passes because of his illness. None, at all. Irsay kept him because he believed in him, and there was plenty of reason to give him time to prove himself over the first four years. Had nothing to do with him being sick. 

You are making an assumption just as I am.    Even you admit that firing him after the 2015 season would have been the right thing to do.

Do you deny that Arians seemed like the better coach of the 2?    At least 2/3 fans thought so.   Turns out that they were right and Irsay was wrong.    Maybe I just want to believe that Irsay kept him because of his illness and not because he can't judge a coach as good as the fans.   

 

Thanks for trying to defend Pagano though.   No one else could step up and do it.   

[Jason_]

11 minutes ago, Myles said:

I notice many coaches get the players opinion before contacting the booth.    Definitely before rushing the next play.

 

I highly doubt that.  First, it can be difficult at times, if not impossible to tell when the coach is talking to someone beside him and when he's talking to someone over the headset unless he actually takes the headset off.  I suspect you're seeing the coach go up to the player after he's already told the replay booth that he needs an answer and is only talking to the player while he waits for them to form a decision.  Second, that just doesn't make sense.  Like i said, it makes no difference whatsoever if the player actually got into the endzone unless there's also a definitive replay to go along with it.  The only reason I would ever approach a player to ask for their opinion is to find out if they know for a fact that they did NOT get in.  I really don't care if they think they got in because it's not about what they think but what can be proven. 

[Jason_]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

You are making an assumption just as I am.    Even you admit that firing him after the 2015 season would have been the right thing to do.

Do you deny that Arians seemed like the better coach of the 2?    At least 2/3 fans thought so.   Turns out that they were right and Irsay was wrong.    Maybe I just want to believe that Irsay kept him because of his illness and not because he can't judge a coach as good as the fans.   

 

Thanks for trying to defend Pagano though.   No one else could step up and do it.   

 

Irsay didn't "keep" Pagano in 2013.  He signed Pagano in 2012 to be the Colts HC for the next 4 years.  Pagano got sick early in his first year..he only coached a few games that year.  there was very little to try to judge him on and there was nothing that suggested he should be fired.  And that's what they would have had to do...fire Pagano after coaching in barely a handful of games. 

 

there was no one on this planet, not a single fan here, that could have formulated a valid opinion of his coaching abilities based on the 2012 season.