Tick Tock..... Is it time for a culture change?

[bluephantom87]

I'm not a betting man but my gut felling tells me that changes are coming! I don't think Irsay will sit pat this go round even if he has to come out of pocket. Colt fans seem to be torn on whether to fire BOTH Chuck and Grigson, keep one and not the other with arguments made for both sides (although Chuck seems to lead in the wanting him fired category) or simply to stay the course and retain them both. I think last year Jim went with his heart and glossed over some major flaws in coaching while ignoring the subpar talent level of his team. I think he was torn but at the LAST minute gave in (or maybe who he really wanted fell through who knows) and extensions for both men were given at the eleventh hour. A heathy Luck returned this season yet the Colts DROPPED to 3rd place in the bad afc south with the team playing bad for most of the season. I can count on one hand the number of games in which the Colts played well in all phases. I admire Jim for giving the duo a shot but 5yrs is more than enough time to see what direction this team is headed in and right now it's the WRONG direction. I STILL have no doubt that with the right staff, a polished GM and Luck as qb that this team CAN win multiple rings BUT as time goes on under the leadership of this duo seasons wasted will become the norm. 

[Nadine]

I don't think he glossed over flaws.  I think he wanted continuity which is an important goal (and we had already blown everything up)

 

I think you completely underestimate him. hind sight is always 20 20

[deedub75]

The longer we wait then the more likely that no changes are made. 

 

Don't be surprised if there is NO announcement today. 

[deedub75]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I don't think he glossed over flaws.  I think he wanted continuity which is an important goal (and we had already blown everything up)

 

I think you completely underestimate him. hind sight is always 20 20

 

Well Irsay indeed got the continuity he wanted. 

[Nadine]

Just now, deedub75 said:

 

Well Irsay indeed got the continuity he wanted. 

no he didn't.

 

[deedub75]

Just now, Nadine said:

no he didn't.

 

 

We went 8-8 2 years in a row. That's at least the continuity I expected when he retained them. 

[Fisticuffs111]

My gut feeling is that Jim doesn't make any moves as much as I want otherwise.

[mahagga73]

10 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

Well Irsay indeed got the continuity he wanted. 

Yep, 8-8

[Nadine]

7 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

We went 8-8 2 years in a row. That's at least the continuity I expected when he retained them. 

OK, I see the sarcasm and irony in what you are saying by applying 'continuity' to their record.

 

However, what I was referring to is what most CEO's aim for in their organizations, stability, continuity, which is conducive to a more productive organization.

 

Irsay admires teams that have that kind of culture, and we had it for a long time as well. And they were good years for us

 

However, over the past 5 years, we have not achieved it again.

 

He must have had confidence that the issues would be corrected this year.  I know that they have not been addressed, I don't need that pointed out to me.

 

Just because it didn't work doesn't mean that he wanted things to turn out this way.  That's what I'm saying.  People are angry so they are making all kinds of assumptions, all with the benefit of hindsight.

 

 

 

[Colts1324]

When will we know? I'm dying over waiting for something to come out about us firing somebody.  

[Defjamz26]

4 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

When will we know? I'm dying over waiting for something to come out about us firing somebody.  

Irsay is scheduled to meet with both of them today at some point. We should know something in the afternoon.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Irsay is scheduled to meet with both of them today at some point. We should know something in the afternoon.

Where did you hear this? 

[Fisticuffs111]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Irsay is scheduled to meet with both of them today at some point. We should know something in the afternoon.

I wonder if he's meeting with them separately. I could see that be kinda telling if so.

[VaAllDay757]

This what I don't understand he waits so late to make these type of decisions we probably won't hear no updates until later on this evening

[BOTT]

35 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I don't think he glossed over flaws.  I think he wanted continuity which is an important goal (and we had already blown everything up)

 

I think you completely underestimate him. hind sight is always 20 20

I think he called Saban, Harbaugh, and Peyton and nothing transpired.

[BOTT]

4 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

This what I don't understand he waits so late to make these type of decisions we probably won't hear no updates until later on this evening

The season ended yesterday.

[corgi]

Well Pagano has a press conference scheduled for 1:30pm, so unless he's announcing his resignation I believe he's not going anywhere.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Yes it's time. Everyone knows it's time. 

Paganos record against teams not in the afc south is terrible. It sucks that we cant keep that continuity, but it is time. 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

7 minutes ago, BOTT said:

I think he called Saban, Harbaugh, and Peyton and nothing transpired.

Something like that. And now Irsay just feels apathetic. 

 

[MTC]

2 minutes ago, corgi said:

Well Pagano has a press conference scheduled for 1:30pm, so unless he's announcing his resignation I believe he's not going anywhere.

 

[corgi]

2 hours ago, corgi said:

Well Pagano has a press conference scheduled for 1:30pm, so unless he's announcing his resignation I believe he's not going anywhere.

If Stone Cold Steve Austin doesn't interupt this presser with a beer truck I may be out of the watching football game for a good while. Still love the Colts but, I can accomplish a lot in three hours on a Thursday/Sunday/Monday.

[Defjamz26]

14 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Where did you hear this? 

NFLN, Charlie Casserly

[MTC]

If I recall correctly, Jim Caldwell had a press conference with the media before he was axed.

[Colts_Fan12]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

NFLN, Charlie Casserly

Awesome hoping it's not the same lame crap that happened last year. 

[corgi]

2 hours ago, MTC said:

If I recall correctly, Jim Caldwell had a press conference with the media before he was axed.

Don't you go getting my hopes up, I've already committed myself to being angry the rest of the day. *throws an empty trash can at a Pagano standee*

[deedub75]

26 minutes ago, Nadine said:

OK, I see the sarcasm and irony in what you are saying by applying 'continuity' to their record.

 

However, what I was referring to is what most CEO's aim for in their organizations, stability, continuity, which is conducive to a more productive organization.

 

Irsay admires teams that have that kind of culture, and we had it for a long time as well. And they were good years for us

 

However, over the past 5 years, we have not achieved it again.

 

He must have had confidence that the issues would be corrected this year.  I know that they have not been addressed, I don't need that pointed out to me.

 

Just because it didn't work doesn't mean that he wanted things to turn out this way.  That's what I'm saying.  People are angry so they are making all kinds of assumptions, all with the benefit of hindsight.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't saying that he wanted things to turn out this way. However, if he looked at the way the roster was constructed, the way the team constantly came out flat over the previous seasons, the record outside of the division, and Pagano's questionable coaching decisions, one could almost certainly deduce that this would continue under this regime. This is who they are  and there would be no quick fix to turn this thing around. We are in a rebuilding mode after 5 seasons when we should be retooling and I'm not sure if this regime is the one that should be handling it. 

[BOTT]

7 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

Something like that. And now Irsay just feels apathetic. 

 

That is starting to describe the fanbase.  That's not what you want in a small market.

[deedub75]

29 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

When will we know? I'm dying over waiting for something to come out about us firing somebody.  

 

Dont be surprised if there is no announcement since they are both under contract. 

[Defjamz26]

All I know is that if no changes are made, the excuse better be something better than "If a couple of things bounced out way, we'd be in the playoffs. A lot of those games were close". Because that logic goes both ways. If the Jaguars kicker could kick we'd be 7-9. He should look at 8-8 as a losing season and just a demonstration of mediocrity. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Defjamz26 said:

All I know is that if no changes are made, the excuse better be something better than "If a couple of things bounced out way, we'd be in the playoffs. A lot of those games were close". Because that logic goes both ways. If the Jaguars kicker could kick we'd be 7-9. He should look at 8-8 as a losing season and just a demonstration of mediocrity. 

There is no excuse really if they stay im sure they will find some but in reality there really is none they both just suck *** at their jobs 

[corgi]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

There is no excuse really if they stay im sure they will find some but in reality there really is none they both just suck *** at their jobs 

I'd love an extension and raise for sucking at my job...maybe I need to start being terrible at my job, being great has got me no where.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, corgi said:

I'd love an extension and raise for sucking at my job...maybe I need to start being terrible at my job, being great has got me no where.

I know right!! Guess I've been doing it all wrong. Instead of sucking at first and then getting better you are actually supposed to do good then get worse!

[Defjamz26]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

There is no excuse really if they stay im sure they will find some but in reality there really is none they both just suck *** at their jobs 

Right. You go 11-5 3 years when you're working with nothing but 8-8 two years in a row? And forget Luck being injured, they lost with him in 2015. To me that either means your team didn't improve over the years, the other teams around you improved and closed the gap, or both. Either way change is necessary. 

[Cynjin]

This team is in dire need of a change in culture, it stinks.  Too many people in the organization that seem willing to accept mediocrity.

[deedub75]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Right. You go 11-5 3 years when you're working with nothing but 8-8 two years in a row? And forget Luck being injured, they lost with him in 2015. To me that either means your team didn't improve over the years, the other teams around you improved and closed the gap, or both. Either way change is necessary. 

 

I agree. 2015 was no fluke. 

[NannyMcafee]

I will not be watching football next year if these guys are retained. I can spend my time being less negative multiple times per week. I had more fun when the colts were 2-14 than this regime has given us. Which says a lot. Why would I actually enjoy watching the colts lose that many games over this?! No I don't like watching the colts lose but at least our players wanted to be there every Sunday and played hard. 

[Corndog]

I think at the very least Pagano is gone.  I see no reason to retain him after this season.  I think there is a 50/50 chance Grigson is gone as well.  If that is the case, we could see a Caldwell situation, where the new GM makes the call on Pagano, meaning the new GM gets to fire him.  

[oldunclemark]

31 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Right. You go 11-5 3 years when you're working with nothing but 8-8 two years in a row? And forget Luck being injured, they lost with him in 2015. To me that either means your team didn't improve over the years, the other teams around you improved and closed the gap, or both. Either way change is necessary. 

Luck missed 9 games in 2016

..we played with 3 rookies in the Oline (and rotating and disappearing DBs) in 2016...

 

...we need to stay the course......we'll be back in the post-season in 2017

[oldunclemark]

27 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

I will not be watching football next year if these guys are retained. I had more fun when the colts were 2-14 . 

wow

[NewColtsFan]

 

OK.....      I'll be the contrarian.....

 

As someone who covered sports professionally for 30 years and football for 20 of those,  I don't think the Colts under Pagano/Grigson have EVER lost a single game due to "culture".       I don't think there's a culture problem to change.

 

The games we lost we've lost mostly due to a lack of talent.     We've had Andrew Luck and an average to below average roster for 5 seasons.     

 

Not only that,  but we typically win the games we win in large part due to culture.    Because we play hard.   Our players may not be that talented,  but they have fight in them.     That's culture.

 

Some posters pointed to the comments made by Hilton and Mathis as proof there was a culture problem.   Sorry,  but those comments don't point to culture,  they simply point to frustration and anger that the team blew the best chances they had to make the post-season.      Shock and anger will make players say things like that.     It happens in all 32 teams.       A good culture is why the comments quickly disappeared and nothing more was said.       Did you notice that?

 

Culture is why the team picked up and didn't miss a beat when Pagano got sick and Arians took over.

 

Culture is why the the team started winning playoff games in years 2 and 3.

 

Culture is why the team won their last two games of the year last year when a team without great culture would have laid down like dogs.

 

Culture is why the team played hard in the Minnesota game and in the 2nd half of the J'Ville game.

 

5 years and none of them losing?     With average talent at best?     That's great culture.      

 

We don't need a culture change, we need more talent.     We need a lot more talent.      We are not, as one poster noted,  close to contending.      Not for a Super Bowl, at least.       We can contend for the AFC South next year.      We might even get lucky in a playoff game.     But I don't see the talent for a deep run.     But with a new staff, and more talent,   I expect us to be better next year.

 

But there's already good culture here.     Luck talks about it being in the building.     The organization expects to win.     Period.  

 

I have no idea what happens today?       One could go,  or both could go,  or both could stay.      No idea.

 

But culture isn't the problem.     Never has been.       Talent is the issue.     Always will be.

 

Sorry this went so long.....