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Tick Tock..... Is it time for a culture change?

bluephantom87

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BOTT Walk On

BOTT

Posted
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4 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Luck missed 9 games in 2016

..we played with 3 rookies in the Oline (and rotating and disappearing DBs) in 2016...

 

...we need to stay the course......we'll be back in the post-season in 2017

Good lord...

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK.....      I'll be the contrarian.....

 

As someone who covered sports professionally for 30 years and football for 20 of those,  I don't think the Colts under Pagano/Grigson have EVER lost a single game due to "culture".       I don't think there's a culture problem to change.

 

The games we lost we've lost mostly due to a lack of talent.     We've had Andrew Luck and an average to below average roster for 5 seasons.     

 

Not only that,  but we typically win the games we win in large part due to culture.    Because we play hard.   Our players may not be that talented,  but they have fight in them.     That's culture.

 

Some posters pointed to the comments made by Hilton and Mathis as proof there was a culture problem.   Sorry,  but those comments don't point to culture,  they simply point to frustration and anger that the team blew the best chances they had to make the post-season.      Shock and anger will make players say things like that.     It happens in all 32 teams.       A good culture is why the comments quickly disappeared and nothing more was said.       Did you notice that?

 

Culture is why the team picked up and didn't miss a beat when Pagano got sick and Arians took over.

 

Culture is why the the team started winning playoff games in years 2 and 3.

 

Culture is why the team won their last two games of the year last year when a team without great culture would have laid down like dogs.

 

Culture is why the team played hard in the Minnesota game and in the 2nd half of the J'Ville game.

 

5 years and none of them losing?     With average talent at best?     That's great culture.      

 

We don't need a culture change, we need more talent.     We need a lot more talent.      We are not, as one poster noted,  close to contending.      Not for a Super Bowl, at least.       We can contend for the AFC South next year.      We might even get lucky in a playoff game.     But I don't see the talent for a deep run.     But with a new staff, and more talent,   I expect us to be better next year.

 

But there's already good culture here.     Luck talks about it being in the building.     The organization expects to win.     Period.  

 

I have no idea what happens today?       One could go,  or both could go,  or both could stay.      No idea.

 

But culture isn't the problem.     Never has been.       Talent is the issue.     Always will be.

 

Sorry this went so long.....

 

 

I agree that the talent is lacking, especially on defense, and culture isn't the only reason for this teams short comings.  However, culture is a big reason why the Colts have had consistent slow starts to the seasons and the games.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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9 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

I agree that the talent is lacking, especially on defense, and culture isn't the only reason for this teams short comings.  However, culture is a big reason why the Colts have had consistent slow starts to the seasons and the games.

You have no idea what the culture of the team is.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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53 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

I will not be watching football next year if these guys are retained. I can spend my time being less negative multiple times per week. I had more fun when the colts were 2-14 than this regime has given us. Which says a lot. Why would I actually enjoy watching the colts lose that many games over this?! No I don't like watching the colts lose but at least our players wanted to be there every Sunday and played hard. 

You must be a rather young man.   Did you watch this team in the 80's and 90's?

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chrisfarley Practice Squad

chrisfarley

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2 hours ago, deedub75 said:

The longer we wait then the more likely that no changes are made. 

 

Don't be surprised if there is NO announcement today. 

i think announcements would have to come on Tuesday, since today (Monday) is a national Holiday across the United States.  If tomorrow drags on past 11am EST, then no changes are coming and the three stooges are back in action and we are headed for another free-fall toward mediocrity. Having said that, maybe they all go to the Wizard,  Pagano gets some courage, Grigson gets a heart, Irsay gets a brain.  OR , just blow it all up, 

:Nuke: :Nuke::Nuke::Nuke::Nuke::Nuke:

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Defjamz26 Ring of Honor

Defjamz26

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25 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Luck missed 9 games in 2016

..we played with 3 rookies in the Oline (and rotating and disappearing DBs) in 2016...

 

...we need to stay the course......we'll be back in the post-season in 2017

You say Irvine as if all teams don't deal with the same things at 1 point. Last year the Pats had like 3 rookies on the O-line and made the playoffs. Packers a few seasons back lost Aaron Rodgers to a collarbone injury and still made the playoffs. Don't make it seem like the Colts are just the most unluckiest team in the league that had ridiculous odds stacked against them.

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NannyMcafee Active Roster

NannyMcafee

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8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You must be a rather young man.   Did you watch this team in the 80's and 90's?

 

The 90s yes. The 80s no. I just really dislike the mentality of this particular staff.  im not saying I'm going to watch any other team besides the colts. Just going to take a break from it in general. Can't support a staff that I completely disagree with. Why watch a game that makes me angry? I don't like being angry. 

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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19 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

I agree that the talent is lacking, especially on defense, and culture isn't the only reason for this teams short comings.  However, culture is a big reason why the Colts have had consistent slow starts to the seasons and the games.

 

 

There's another thread that talks about "Is it time to change the culture?"....   and I've laid out my argument there.

 

So,  I'll just say here that I respectfully disagree.

 

Culture is a large reason why we've won so many games.     When you don't have talent you have to win with effort and attitude and that comes from great culture.      Culture is the least of our issues.     In fact,  I don't think it's an issue at all.

 

I think our culture is our strength.     It has been since Day One of hiring Chuck Pagano.

 

I know that's not popular,  but it's why after 5 seasons of Andrew Luck and an average to below average roster, we have yet to have a losing season.      It's the culture.

 

I think it's the best part of what Pagano brings.

 

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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8 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Almost anyone that has been in a locker room can see that there are cultural issue with this team.

 

Culture is the strength of the team.     It's not the problem.

 

The Colts have had a good strong locker-room when Luck arrived and it stayed that way ever since.    That's culture.

 

When you win with little talent,  that's good culture.     When you're losing,  that's mostly talent.

 

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Colts1324 Team Captain

Colts1324

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1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

 

Dont be surprised if there is no announcement since they are both under contract. 

I won't be surprised... It'll just suck. I see no reason why Irsay can't make a statement one way or the other. If he is gonna keep them, make it clear.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

90% of this website, including your posts, are conjecture.  I'm at least basing my opinion on my experiences in different locker rooms.

I don't care how many locker rooms you have ever been in,   You haven't been in the colts locker room.   You have no idea what the culture is

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

There's another thread that talks about "Is it time to change the culture?"....   and I've laid out my argument there.

 

So,  I'll just say here that I respectfully disagree.

 

Culture is a large reason why we've won so many games.     When you don't have talent you have to win with effort and attitude and that comes from great culture.      Culture is the least of our issues.     In fact,  I don't think it's an issue at all.

 

I think our culture is our strength.     It has been since Day One of hiring Chuck Pagano.

 

I know that's not popular,  but it's why after 5 seasons of Andrew Luck and an average to below average roster, we have yet to have a losing season.      It's the culture.

 

I think it's the best part of what Pagano brings.

 

 

If not holding players accountable and a rah rah style is great culture, then yes, Pagano's idea of team culture is great.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

I don't care how many locker rooms you have ever been in,   You haven't been in the colts locker room.   You have no idea what the culture is

 

Yeah you're right, there is no way I could possibly have an idea that there might be an issue, smh.  You are being ridiculous, just out of curiosity have you played any sports beyond middle school?

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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Just now, Cynjin said:

 

Yeah you're right, there is no way I could possibly have an idea that there might be an issue, smh.  You are being ridiculous, just out of curiosity have you played any sports beyond middle school?

Yeah,  I played high school ball.   That has nothing to do with knowing what the culture of a group of people I've never met is like.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Culture is the strength of the team.     It's not the problem.

 

The Colts have had a good strong locker-room when Luck arrived and it stayed that way ever since.    That's culture.

 

When you win with little talent,  that's good culture.     When you're losing,  that's mostly talent.

 

 

Talent is not culture, never has been and never will.  You can win without having a good locker room culture.  Having a good locker room culture is usually shown when there is adversity.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah,  I played high school ball.   That has nothing to do with knowing what the culture of a group of people I've never met is like.

 

Well having been in a locker room can give you an idea of if there might be a problem based on what is being said by coaches and players alike.  I was lucky enough to play past high school, and I've seen and heard enough nonsense from players and coaches to know their is not enough accountability within the Colts locker room.

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runthepost Hall of Famer

runthepost

Posted
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1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

Luck missed 9 games in 2016

..we played with 3 rookies in the Oline (and rotating and disappearing DBs) in 2016...

 

...we need to stay the course......we'll be back in the post-season in 2017

Big Ben missed some games Brady missed some games Tannehill missed some games. All these teams made the playoffs still. Colts play in the afc south... Luck starting is 9-12 in his last 2 years and even went 2-5 last year. We started 3 rookies on the O-line is not an excuse to not make the playoffs. Another team is starting a rookie qb and rb and made the playoffs 

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cbear Active Roster

cbear

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Culture?  Unless you are behind closed doors, you really can't know exactly what the culture is.  But from what we can see, the players don't quit and always play hard IMO.  They don't throw people under the bus in public.  They seen to bounce back from situations you think would crush them (like yesterday's "meaningless" game).  So to me from what I can gather, the culture is pretty darn good.

 

The talent level on D?  That's another question.

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cbear Active Roster

cbear

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38 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

If not holding players accountable and a rah rah style is great culture, then yes, Pagano's idea of team culture is great.

 

Unless you know he's like that behind closed doors, you simply cannot make that assumption.  If you want him to rip his players in the media and think that will somehow fire them up or get them mad enough to play better, I guess that's a possibility.  IMO though, public lashing don't work.  That is best saved for private talks.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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8 minutes ago, cbear said:

 

Unless you know he's like that behind closed doors, you simply cannot make that assumption.  If you want him to rip his players in the media and think that will somehow fire them up or get them mad enough to play better, I guess that's a possibility.  IMO though, public lashing don't work.  That is best saved for private talks.

 

Did you listen to his press conference today at all.  Are you going to tell me that he is completely the opposite in the locker room?  No one said anything about public lashing, but sometimes they do work, it depends on the player.  Pagano could do it in private, but I doubt he does very often.

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cbear Active Roster

cbear

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4 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Did you listen to his press conference today at all.  Are you going to tell me that he is completely the opposite in the locker room?  No one said anything about public lashing, but sometimes they do work, it depends on the player.  Pagano could do it in private, but I doubt he does very often.

 

Yes I did and I have no idea.

 

Look, I'm as frustrated as anyone when I hear the cliches.  Would I feel better if he pulled a Popovich?   Probably.  But I take what is said in front of the media with a grain of salt. 

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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5 minutes ago, cbear said:

 

Yes I did and I have no idea.

 

Look, I'm as frustrated as anyone when I hear the cliches.  Would I feel better if he pulled a Popovich?   Probably.  But I take what is said in front of the media with a grain of salt. 

 

Look, what I have been saying is in essence an educated guess.  Having said that I have never had or seen a coach that was completely different inside the locker room than he was outside the locker room, never.  It is not just the cliches, it is saying things like how yesterdays win was a defining moment for the team, really?  That was a defining moment, really?  There were other things too, but I would have to go back and listen to it again and I am not sure I would want to go through that again.

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cbear Active Roster

cbear

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4 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Look, what I have been saying is in essence an educated guess.  Having said that I have never had or seen a coach that was completely different inside the locker room than he was outside the locker room, never.  It is not just the cliches, it is saying things like how yesterdays win was a defining moment for the team, really?  That was a defining moment, really?  There were other things too, but I would have to go back and listen to it again and I am not sure I would want to go through that again.

 

That's why except for things like today, I rarely ever listen to pressers.

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rockywoj Team Captain

rockywoj

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2 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

The 90s yes. The 80s no. I just really dislike the mentality of this particular staff.  im not saying I'm going to watch any other team besides the colts. Just going to take a break from it in general. Can't support a staff that I completely disagree with. Why watch a game that makes me angry? I don't like being angry. 

Prediction :   You will watch the Colts next year. Book it!

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bluephantom87 Team Captain

bluephantom87

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8 hours ago, 12to13 said:

Pagano is 20-24 against opponents outside of the division. 

21 double digit losses, by an average of 22 points.

 

I doubt this is what Irsay had in mind when Peyton was let go and Jim started boasting about multiple rings with Luck at qb. It makes me cringe when some act like Chuck is the ONLY answer as hc because of his "winning" record. I ask this if the Colts were in ANY other division beside the pitiful south and take away Bruce's 9 wins that Chuck was CREDITED with what would his record be facing teams like the Pats or Steelers twice a year? What about the Ravens or Chiefs? Even the subpar teams in the AFC like the Bills and Chargers could the Colts sweep them on a regular? I doubt it and that's not including the teams like the Raiders, Broncos and Bengals.

 

I couldn't IMAGINE Belichick or Brady allowing the team to CELEBRATE a last second victory over a hapless 3 win Jag team at home like they won a SB but that seed was planted LAST year when the Colts beat ANOTHER 3 win south opponent late (the Titans) at home to finish 8-8 and the party was on!!! The Colts beat the Jags (barely) because they are a bad team and if you fall behind 17-0 behind the elite you get blown out by double digits something that this team knows oh so well outside the division! I guess if you want a coach and gm who can NO longer SCRAPE by in the south and are satisfied with heading into the last game of the season at 7-8 then these are your guys. Yes a culture change is needed in the worse way.....

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chrisfarley Practice Squad

chrisfarley

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He is one person I am tired of trying to read.  I am NOT going to be a "buy-in" guy if the regime stays the same.  I am NOT of the opinion he knows what he's doing and he wouldn't make that decision if he didn't know something we didn't.   He's lost ground with me and many others.  Let's move the monster back into the laboratory, collect the right nuts and bolts for re-assembly, and have the right people turning the wrenches and testing the product,,,over and over..., and then present something that Coaches, Players, Fans, & FO can roll out next year and be right about who this team is, and further, be defined by some unmistakable beliefs.  --- G.O.   ----   C.O.L.T.S. ----   2 0 1 7

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