Bob Kravitz calls on Irsay to fire Grigson and Pagano

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

You have to fire them regardless of how the next person does. If they're not good they're not good. What are you going to say if the next coach/GM isn't good? "Oh man should've kept Pagano and Grigson ". You can settle for mediocrity because you fear less than mediocrity. Colts might have to suffer through some bad years to get it right.

You dont fire GMs or coaches blind.  You have an idea of who might become available.  if nobody you like is available, you ride out the lesser evil at the time.  Supposedly, this is what happend last year.  irsay was coveting sean payton but when that was rejected, he re-upped on Pags/Grigs.

 

You dont fire them first, then go and ask Sean Payton if he wants the job, then get stuck in a position where you hope the next guys you had to hire are better than the ones you just fired..  Thats stupidity.

[tikyle]

13 hours ago, aaron11 said:

hes right too

 

having luck with just a remotely decent roster should be enough to win the south

 

instead (not counting the QB) we have possibly the worst roster in the league outside of Cleveland and maybe the 49ers

 

I honestly don't think CLE roster is that bad.  They have like 14 rookies on that team.  Those guys are learning the game but just think a team that has played with like 4 different QBs, a bunch of rookies and no real big names are in like every game.  That's pretty good.  If CLE ever gets a QB I can see that bunch going on a short run like CIN did in that division.  49ers on the other hand just have bad luck.  Losing all those guys to retirement and injury.  Sheesh.

 

I'm all for starting over, I just hope we get the right guys in here.  We see the wrong guys have just wasted 5 years of Andrew Luck.  We only have 7-8 more solid years of him left (that's if the O-line can keep him upright).

[VaAllDay757]

17 minutes ago, Archangel said:

 

Yep never played a down in the NFL But a lot of the guys in this forum, pretty much new what needed to be done to beat the Texans. And the coaching staff did exactly the opposite. So if the Fans who never played a down saw this why did the coaches not see it. Just a observation from a loyal fan for many of years

Exactly we all knew what the gameplan should have been but nope chuck and staff thought it was a better idea to run a screen on 4th and 1 then it didn't work so obviously they don't know what to in crunch time and it has showed every season get rid of those two

[deedub75]

12 hours ago, IinD said:

Just in terms of the soft market part of the post...

 

I don't think he's knocking our fan base honestly. I think he's saying Indy fans won't pay for mediocrity LONG TERM. They'll find something better to spend there time and money on, which I feel is totally fine. I'm sure he said it knowing he'd get clicks for his article as well.

 

I remember in 06' flying in literally last minute to attend the KC wildcard game (tix were available still through tixmaster). To me that was our way of saying show me you're a good team or we won't come. Sure enough 2 weeks later I flew back in for the AFCCG and there wasn't much in terms of tickets available.

 

But I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if attendance were to ever slide if this playoff drought got into 3,4 or 5 years because it'll force Jim to make changes.

 

We aren't the only fan base that applies to so I honestly don't think it was a jab. Nothing wrong if fans don't want to show up to watch bad football when they can hang with there friends or family on Sunday and just put the tv on.

 

If you want high attendance, you better win. Indy fans are within their rights to not show up if this bad play continues.

 

I don't think LOS will look like a museum, but I could surely see attendance slip.

 

This is a soft market for football compared to much larger cities. Plus we're in close proximity to other teams. When Manning was here the games were always sold out and I believe there were ticket brokers who owned a lot of season tickets.  The season ticket wait list was around 10000. It only took one bad season for many season ticket holders to bail and the wait list was wiped out. 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Just think about how exciting this coming off season could be with a new big name HC/GM! 

 

Then think about the same off season with Pagano and Grigson instead.

 

I know, what I want! 

[IinD]

34 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

This is a soft market for football compared to much larger cities. Plus we're in close proximity to other teams. When Manning was here the games were always sold out and I believe there were ticket brokers who owned a lot of season tickets.  The season ticket wait list was around 10000. It only took one bad season for many season ticket holders to bail and the wait list was wiped out. 

I hear you and that makes sense since you've got local competition. 

 

All the more reason he can't just let this slide. Fans will speak by not coming to games.

[Gramz]

Well, by all means then. Bob Kravitz has spoken.

[King Colt]

Bottom line: Irsay (W.C. Fields) does not know what to do and that is the key to where they are. If he fires both what makes anyone believe he will make the right choices to replace them?

[Coffeedrinker]

I could see the Colts doing something similar to what he did with Mora.  Keep Grigson and tell whatever HC they bring in that the offensive system (including OC and offensive position coaches) stay in place but the new guy is free to bring in his own D and ST coaches/players.

[21isSuperman]

7 hours ago, Jdubu said:

First of all, im not arguing or challenging you but I have to ask, do you live in Indy and are you a season ticket holder? While I am a season ticket holder, was before Manning, I live just a smudge over an hours drive to Indy and have attended probably 90% of all those games during this period, including several preseason games. 

 

Now I was pretty disgusted with the team in 2011, however, I understood what a first pick meant and that Manning probably wasn't coming back and if he did, was he going to be able to play? Now, forward to last years team and the start we had, God how awful that year was but most were happy to see Pep go and thoughts of Pagano and Grigs following him out at seasons end (although I'm more supportive now of keeping Grigs over Pagano). Of course we knew how everything went but we had some hope once a new group of what appeared on paper was brought in to help Pagano coach things he seemingly hadn't been able to do far. Well, watching this season, the defense has looked anemic and incapable too often in games and you have to wonder what scheme are they trying. You see an oline that still struggles to form a nice pocket around luck consistently and open any gaping holes to run a Mini Cooper through like our defense often gives opponents. Special teams downing punts, well as the writer said, "bless his heart". New highly respected strength and conditioning coach, same old injury riddled team if not even more. 

 

So with setting that up and you beliving that colts are deeply engrained in the team and won't leave them, I strongly disagree. While the "community" may love them, it's a softer market than many NFL cities who has had recent histories of a super bowl team. I thought about not renewing last year for my seats but felt a bit of hope with the changes and decided to hang on and watch for growth, I've seen a turd on the field covered with chocolate syrup to cover it up and hide what it really is. I've sold tickets on stubhub to whoever gets them for the first time ever, since 1995, and I've had the opportunity to sell these tickets for big bucks to premium games had I wanted over these years but held true to fandom. Season tickets for next season? Man I really don't know if I want to try this again with Pagano making game plans and in game decisions, at this point, he is what we thought he was. A below average NFL coach who is a super nice human being. 

 

I think if this team does nothing to excite this fragile, disappointed fan base between now and when season tickets money is due, I think your gonna see those tickets get into scalpers hands because fans aren't going to keep paying to hammer their heads into the floor watching insanity played out. 

I'm not anywhere near the Indy area.  I live in Canada.  But I find it hard to believe that fans will simply stop going to games.  This isn't like the MLB or NBA where there are so many games you can go to.  There are 8 home games each year, excluding playoffs.  Even if people do sell their season ticket passes/don't renew them, I think other people will be happy to buy them.  It's similar to how some players are leaving the NFL early because of injury concerns.  There are those who are concerned, but the NFL is so popular that even when those concerned leave, others (fans or players) will take the place of those who walked away.  I'm not saying those who walk away are wrong.  I'm just saying I find it hard to see half of the seats in LOS empty on any given week because the team isn't playing well.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

 

This is a soft market for football compared to much larger cities. Plus we're in close proximity to other teams. When Manning was here the games were always sold out and I believe there were ticket brokers who owned a lot of season tickets.  The season ticket wait list was around 10000. It only took one bad season for many season ticket holders to bail and the wait list was wiped out. 

But that happens in every NFL market except for the few like Pittsburgh,Green Bay, etc.  The amount of money the fan base spends ebbs and flows with the success of the team.

 

Its one thing to point out the realities of a smaller market.  But that's not what he said.  He said its a soft market where the fans will leave, presumably, to a greater degree than fans in other cities will if their team struggles.  

 

His articles have been dripping with that type of wording for years.  

[Superman]

7 hours ago, #12. said:

"Soft market" was the wrong way to phrase it

 

It's exactly how he wanted to phrase it. It's a not-so-subtle dig that Kravitz uses toward Indy fans periodically. Agree with him or not, it was not a mistake or a poor choice of words, it's deliberate.

[throwing BBZ]

15 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

I feel bad for the season ticket holders, they certainly have a right to be ticked at the product on the field and looking for a light at the end of this seemingly endless tunnel, seems hopeless.  Am I ticked? Who cares? Nobody does, and rightfully so, I choose to be a fan of this team for many reasons, and will continue to be through thick and thin, but I also have talked to some season ticket holders that feel like they get dumped on by the Colts organization and for reasons other than the product on the field.  Season ticket holders should be treated like kings and queens, they pay A LOT of bills. But this is adding insult to injury.  To the article;  Pagano had the deer in the headlights look dating back to our playoff game on the road with the Ravens.  Not saying that BA would have won, who could ever say.....but I think it would have given us better odds had he been at the helm,,,,he was sick, it wasn't meant to be.  God love Coach Pagano for overcoming cancer and doing so many good things on his journey with this team, and what a man for getting back on the field that year. He has shown a lot of class in Indy as a coach and as a community man. He HAS coached good games as he regularly pummeled the AFC South and won in the playoffs. I don't think he has the Midas touch with this team, and that's what it takes IMO in the NFL, whether that be a hard-hand forcing accountability, or a Dungy-like softer touch, or somewhere in the middle, it's just not working.  It's painful to watch, that's all, just painful.  Don't know the right solution, but everyone is entitled to their opinion...and I'll keep reading them all, for or against. (btw, I am not a season ticket holder, no one who lives in a van down by the river is)

 

  What has been kinda fun to watch in the Lucky era is all the late drives in the 1st half to get us back into so many games, and the 4th quarter comebacks with Lucky making big Runs and 20+ yard passes as we beat a bunch of mediocre to bad teams. And beating (Manning) DENVER!! Yeehaa! 
 I knew i had just watched more than half a game of bad football, but those 15 or so minutes of Lucky finding ways to get it done and the Winning of the game with some Excitement at the end made me want to continue on for the building of our coming New Monster.
  Wouldn`t you say the build has been pretty much a Joke?  There is No Element of Either Unit that even hints of a Monster.  
Wassup, Jim, Grigs, Chuck?  You have Failed.  JMO of course.   
   Young guys don`t ever give up trying to be the Best!!   And Go Colts!! 

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

But that happens in every NFL market except for the few like Pittsburgh,Green Bay, etc.  The amount of money the fan base spends ebbs and flows with the success of the team.

 

Its one thing to point out the realities of a smaller market.  But that's not what he said.  He said its a soft market where the fans will leave, presumably, to a greater degree than fans in other cities will if their team struggles.  

 

His articles have been dripping with that type of wording for years.  

 

He's correct though. We had one bad season and the wait list went from 10000 to 0. Even with drafting Luck, Colts still were having trouble selling season tickets. It got so bad they even began having special open practices at the stadium for people to see which seats were available. They had each seat marked. It is still pretty easy to get season tickets now. I think people were more fans of Manning than the actual team because one bad season after years of success shouldn't cause people to leave in droves.  

[aaron11]

i think he does have a point about the fans

 

we are nothing like the fans in philly or most other east coast teams.  Chiefs fans are pretty hard core and they're a midwest team.  look out west and you have the raiders and seahawks fans that seem down right insane compared to us

 

i dont know if soft is the best word, but we are not what i would call a hardcore fanbase

[jet1968]

Fire Bob Kravitz !

[Steamboat_Shaun]

15 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

He's getting a lot of criticism, but Grigson and Pagano are easy to replace, and need to be replaced, so that's why there's more emphasis on them.

 

Firing them is easy, but replacing could be challenging. But if the rest of the season goes the way it feels like it's going to go, and Irsay indeed decides to blow it up, these would be my candidates:

 

HC: Jim Bob Cooter. He's offensive-minded, and I trust that his offensive game plans from week to week would be designed to actually exploit weaknesses in the other team's defensive scheme, as opposed to doing the same thing week after week after week, regardless of the opponent.

 

DC: Rex Ryan. If he gets canned from Buffalo, he's likely done as a HC, at least for awhile. I'd be all about Irsay handing this defense over to him and just letting him do his thing.

 

GM: Your guess is as good as mine. Evaluating talent, drafting, and scouting are all VERY hard, and only a handful of guys are actually good at it. Ryan Grigson has had his moments, but overall he just isn't there yet, the experiment's over. Maybe with a change of scenery and a new perspective, someday he'll blossom into a decent GM, but the Colts can't wait any longer for that day to come. I'd hope that whoever is in consideration for this role has a background in defensive football (but I would entertain PFM, even though I don't think it's very realistic).

 

OC: I wouldn't replace Chud. I just don't see any positive to having Luck learn his 5th offense in 6 years, and as a result, having yet another season where it takes 8-10 weeks for the offense to finally start clicking.

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

48 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i think he does have a point about the fans

 

we are nothing like the fans in philly or most other east coast teams.  

 

i dont know if soft is the best word, but we are not what i would call a hardcore fanbase

 

Never have been, never will be. Browns fans are more hardcore.

[Defjamz26]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

You dont fire GMs or coaches blind.  You have an idea of who might become available.  if nobody you like is available, you ride out the lesser evil at the time.  Supposedly, this is what happend last year.  irsay was coveting sean payton but when that was rejected, he re-upped on Pags/Grigs.

 

You dont fire them first, then go and ask Sean Payton if he wants the job, then get stuck in a position where you hope the next guys you had to hire are better than the ones you just fired..  Thats stupidity.

That's like staying in a bad relationship because the next person you meet might not be as hot, as well liked by family, as successful, etc... 

 

Riding the lesser of two evils is always terrible. It's also incredibly selfish and insulting towards the guilty party. Imagine wanting to fire someone but not having a replacement so you just keep them around until what you're looking for comes around. That's a bad situation for both sides.

 

I don't care if the next coach he hires doesn't do any better but he's got to find someone he BELIEVES can be the coach/GM of the future. It's trial and error. We as fans need to stop being so worried about ending up like the Browns or other bad franchises, and except there may be some bumps on the road.

 

Some of you guys want it too easy. You just want us to land a slam dunk coach/GM immediately and have them automatically be an upgrade. That's not usually how it works

[masterlock]

20 hours ago, DougDew said:

His opinions are so consistent that I can see the person beneath them.  He always seems to write with an elitist tone, especially towards anybody in power.  They are never smart enough.  And seems to have some sort of inherent bitterness towards the people of Indianapolis.  Another jab at us in this article.

 

 "there's no way Irsay can sell this brain trust to this market for another season. No. Way. This remains a soft market that will turn away from the Colts without giving it a second thought."

I disagree. IMO, Kravitz is almost always right on-point in his analysis. I especially agree with the last quote.

[masterlock]

Colts need Nick Saban.

[21isSuperman]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Firing them is easy, but replacing could be challenging. But if the rest of the season goes the way it feels like it's going to go, and Irsay indeed decides to blow it up, these would be my candidates:

 

HC: Jim Bob Cooter. He's offensive-minded, and I trust that his offensive game plans from week to week would be designed to actually exploit weaknesses in the other team's defensive scheme, as opposed to doing the same thing week after week after week, regardless of the opponent.

 

DC: Rex Ryan. If he gets canned from Buffalo, he's likely done as a HC, at least for awhile. I'd be all about Irsay handing this defense over to him and just letting him do his thing.

 

GM: Your guess is as good as mine. Evaluating talent, drafting, and scouting are all VERY hard, and only a handful of guys are actually good at it. Ryan Grigson has had his moments, but overall he just isn't there yet, the experiment's over. Maybe with a change of scenery and a new perspective, someday he'll blossom into a decent GM, but the Colts can't wait any longer for that day to come. I'd hope that whoever is in consideration for this role has a background in defensive football (but I would entertain PFM, even though I don't think it's very realistic).

 

OC: I wouldn't replace Chud. I just don't see any positive to having Luck learn his 5th offense in 6 years, and as a result, having yet another season where it takes 8-10 weeks for the offense to finally start clicking.

 

Cooter has done a great job in Detroit, but I lean another way with the head coach.  I'd like to see us bring in Gruden.  He and Luck know the WCO like nobody else.  With the two of them speaking the same language, I don't think it would be a big deal having Luck in another offense this early in his career.  Plus, with Gruden as the head coach - and likely offensive playcaller - a change in OCs wouldn't always mean a change in offense.  It would give us stability in terms of what offensive system we run.  That would make the OC more of a figurehead, but whomever Gruden would want to hire would be fine.

 

I really like Rex as DC, but I don't know how that would go.  In his two years in Buffalo, despite a ton of defensive talent, his defenses have underperformed.  I haven't looked much into DC candidates, so I wouldn't know where to go with this.

 

For GM, I like Nick Caserio.  Unfortunately, he's turned down interview offers in the past, which suggests to me he's waiting for Belichick to retire so he can take control of a great organization, similar to DeCosta in Baltimore.  I've seen a few names here and there from Dallas, Minny, and Cincy, but I haven't done a lot of research into GM candidates.

 

One thing I'm very confident in: hire Gruden as head coach.

 

I also think some old players could contribute.  Gary Brackett seems to me like he'd be a good coach and a fiery leader, so I wouldn't mind seeing him join the coaching staff as a linebackers coach.  Maybe consider Bob Sanders as DB or safety coach.  I think Reggie Wayne could make a good WR coach.  Peyton might make a good QB coach but that's a tough one because of how much intrinsic motivation he had....maybe  he's better suited to a talent evaluator position in the front office.  Those teams from the 2000s had a lot of good leaders.  Imagine an offensive meeting room with Gruden, Peyton, and Luck.  The football IQ in that room would be off the charts

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

I really like Rex as DC, but I don't know how that would go.  In his two years in Buffalo, despite a ton of defensive talent, his defenses have underperformed.  I haven't looked much into DC candidates, so I wouldn't know where to go with this.

 

Just so we're on the same page, are you talking about Jon or Jay Gruden for HC?

 

In regards to Rex, his brother took the reigns as coordinator in Buffalo this year, and they got visibly worse as a unit. In my opinion Rex is a better defensive mind than Rob, and he's definitely a much better coordinator than he is a head coach. I think he'd thrive in a scenario where he could solely focus on putting a good defensive unit on the field. Another candidate for DC that I'd entertain is Marvin Lewis. There's plenty of reasons to think he won't be retained in Cincy after this season, and I just don't see any team reaching out to him to fill a head coaching void.

 

Of course, this is all assuming we burn it down and start over.

[Colts_Fan12]

I like Mike Pettine as a DC had some pretty good Ds in Cleveland with not the best talent 

[21isSuperman]

23 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Just so we're on the same page, are you talking about Jon or Jay Gruden for HC?

 

In regards to Rex, his brother took the reigns as coordinator in Buffalo this year, and they got visibly worse as a unit. In my opinion Rex is a better defensive mind than Rob, and he's definitely a much better coordinator than he is a head coach. I think he'd thrive in a scenario where he could solely focus on putting a good defensive unit on the field. Another candidate for DC that I'd entertain is Marvin Lewis. There's plenty of reasons to think he won't be retained in Cincy after this season, and I just don't see any team reaching out to him to fill a head coaching void.

 

Of course, this is all assuming we burn it down and start over.

I'm talking about Jon Gruden.  Jay Gruden is having great success with the Redkins, so I don't imagine he would be available for us.

[southwest1]

10 hours ago, DougDew said:

You dont fire GMs or coaches blind.  You have an idea of who might become available.  if nobody you like is available, you ride out the lesser evil at the time.  Supposedly, this is what happend last year.  irsay was coveting sean payton but when that was rejected, he re-upped on Pags/Grigs.

 

You dont fire them first, then go and ask Sean Payton if he wants the job, then get stuck in a position where you hope the next guys you had to hire are better than the ones you just fired..  Thats stupidity.

I deplore this cop out, lazy argument with every fiber of my body DD. So, you retain a regime that can barely win while one division rival, the Tennessee Titans under Mariotta is poised to take over the AFC South then with a much better D & running game than INDY? TE Delanie Walker is formidable on the field too. 

 

I doubt INDY would have trouble generating coaching interest over the prospect of working with Luck & Jimmy is a darn good owner. He's not a cheapskate like the Bengals or the Bears ownership. 

 

What's "stupid" is maintaining status quo DD. I hate when the lesser of 2 evils argument is used in sports & in politics because you don't drink sand trying to convince yourself it's thirst quenching water. Poor management & subpar coaching is evident to everyone. 

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

That's like staying in a bad relationship because the next person you meet might not be as hot, as well liked by family, as successful, etc... 

 

Riding the lesser of two evils is always terrible. It's also incredibly selfish and insulting towards the guilty party. Imagine wanting to fire someone but not having a replacement so you just keep them around until what you're looking for comes around. That's a bad situation for both sides.

 

I don't care if the next coach he hires doesn't do any better but he's got to find someone he BELIEVES can be the coach/GM of the future. It's trial and error. We as fans need to stop being so worried about ending up like the Browns or other bad franchises, and except there may be some bumps on the road.

 

Some of you guys want it too easy. You just want us to land a slam dunk coach/GM immediately and have them automatically be an upgrade. That's not usually how it works

Well, in a family situation you can always go it alone if it got too bad.  An NFL team always needs a coach.

 

Apparently last time, he thought only Payton was better.  Its seemed like he was ready to let them go for someone he thought was better.  

 

Maybe he thinks less of Pags Grigs now than last year, so maybe his standards for a replacement are not as high as Payton.  I guess we'll see.

[DougDew]

7 hours ago, deedub75 said:

 

He's correct though. We had one bad season and the wait list went from 10000 to 0. Even with drafting Luck, Colts still were having trouble selling season tickets. It got so bad they even began having special open practices at the stadium for people to see which seats were available. They had each seat marked. It is still pretty easy to get season tickets now. I think people were more fans of Manning than the actual team because one bad season after years of success shouldn't cause people to leave in droves.  

The degree to which the fan base doesn't or wont support the team relative to other teams has a number of moving parts to consider.

 

One being is that IU basketball and high school basketball no longer have the same energy as under under knight and single class system, and high school football has evolved.  Indy is a much more football oriented fan base than it was even 10 years ago.

 

Nevertheless, the statement didn't seem particularly relevant to his point in the article, and seemed to be worded deliberately.

 

 

[CanuckColt]

On 12/14/2016 at 9:03 PM, HarryTheCat said:

It's time for Irsay to blow it up and rebuild, starting with the 2017 draft. This team isn't even fun to watch on TV anymore, much less worth paying for season tickets. The product they're putting on the field just sucks, and most folks could make better use of their money.  

 

Just look at the draft picks since Grigson has been GM.  The Colts have had 38 draft picks since Grigson came to town, plus the one they blew on Trent Richardson, and you really have to stretch to find 6 or 7 "quality" starters in the bunch. When you go bust using three out of five of your first round picks for the likes Richardson, Werner, and Dorsett you'll never get there. I'm counting Ryan as a good pick, just because he's had a pretty good season, but time will tell. Grigson's record in FA is also equally dismal. 

 

Yep, all true.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

I deplore this cop out, lazy argument with every fiber of my body DD. So, you retain a regime that can barely win while one division rival, the Tennessee Titans under Mariotta is poised to take over the AFC South then with a much better D & running game than INDY? TE Delanie Walker is formidable on the field too. 

 

I doubt INDY would have trouble generating coaching interest over the prospect of working with Luck & Jimmy is a darn good owner. He's not a cheapskate like the Bengals or the Bears ownership. 

 

What's "stupid" is maintaining status quo DD. I hate when the lesser of 2 evils argument is used in sports & in politics because you don't drink sand trying to convince yourself it's thirst quenching water. Poor management & subpar coaching is evident to everyone. 

Great post my friend!! Your exactly right there would be people lined up to coach luck entering his prime 

[AlanNC]

I agree 100% with Bob.  I have always like Bob's view on things and he is 100 % correct to call for both to be let go.  Easy for me to say since I am not pay their salaries.  If Irsay does not want to waste Lucks career get rid of both right after the season.

[southwest1]

Just to be clear, I like DougDew as a regular & I read his thoughts often. I respect you. I just dislike the notion that the Colts organization should retain Grigs & Pags simply because we might not land the prefect replacement. It's a strange conclusion. 

 

Look, this is gonna sound cruel & cut throat, but Chuck & Ryan suck & I'd take almost anybody else but those 2 at this point. I wanna win rings & these 2 individuals will never take us to the Promise Land. I want Lombardi's not division banners. 

 

I'm not saying I could win rings as a coach. I just know that I cherish this team & I don't keep personnel around that are taking my club backwards & turning us into a laughing stock franchise or at least a team very few squads  fear as a legit contender for all the marbles on the table. It gives me no pleasure to say that BTW. 

[southwest1]

The other thing I remember during that period of uncertainty when no one knew if Chuck or Ryan would be extended contractually or not is this: 

 

Apparently, a number of players spoke up in defense of keeping Pagano. While I agree that locker room chemistry is important & I know Chuck wants to deliver a Championship given all the love INDY showed Grigson during his cancer treatments; Chuck is ultimately paid to put this club on a deep playoff run & even though players may like & root for a guy; they are professionals playing for a check to pay for cars, mortgages, & their kids college tuition. 

 

Here's my point: Admiration for a coach only goes up to a point. You follow whoever your boss [Jimmy in this case] tells you to listen to. So whenever I hear about players only wanna play for certain coaches or they will retire...It's mostly an act that the bulk of the locker room never really intended to fall thru on. 

 

Translation: Ultimatums of retirement if a favorite coach is let go are lame. Whenever I hear foolish statements like that by players, I roar with laughter. Walk away if you want. Anybody is replaceable on a roster with the exception of say a franchise QB, left tackle, center, or elite DB. 

[gacoop1]

Because they have the wrong type of coach, who get's outcoach every time, an incompetent GM that needs to be replaced hopefully soon....

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Great post my friend!! Your exactly right there would be people lined up to coach luck entering his prime 

Who are they and are they better than Pags and Chud?  This isn't a situation where a company is looking for a foreman for the third shift and will have a 1,000 applicants to choose from and 10,000 more qualified people across the country who could apply.  In that case, you fire the manager you have then post the job.

 

Irsay's and Grigson's job is to know who the other assistant and head coaches are around the league.  They have to have a similar philosophy.  Will the new HC want to install a Tampa 2?  What do you do with Vontae, your $10miliion/year man CB?  How does spending $10million on talent you no longer need help you to spend the money to get the talent you do need to run your new D  How long will we have a mediocre Tampa 2 because of our lingering cap hit with Vontae?

 

So how many coaches are in your hiring pool that don't want to run a Tampa 2?

 

What kind of offense should be run?  A quick hitter, or what we have?  How many good coaches want to run the offense we should run and not run a Tampa 2 defense?

 

How many coaches are out there with those qualifications.....and that's even before they interview and show that they can communicate and handle the pressure of being a HC.

 

You don't just fire your current HC without already having asked yourself those questions.  Are there 10 possible coaches you think are better than Pags and want to interview, or about 2?

[indyagent17]

Kravitz et al, just want to stir things up. Controversy sells!

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Who are they and are they better than Pags and Chud?  This isn't a situation where a company is looking for a foreman for the third shift and will have a 1,000 applicants to choose from and 10,000 more qualified people across the country who could apply.  In that case, you fire the manager you have then post the job.

 

Irsay's and Grigson's job is to know who the other assistant and head coaches are around the league.  They have to have a similar philosophy.  Will the new HC want to install a Tampa 2?  What do you do with Vontae, your $10miliion/year man CB?  How does spending $10million on talent you no longer need help you to spend the money to get the talent you do need to run your new D  How long will we have a mediocre Tampa 2 because of our lingering cap hit with Vontae?

 

So how many coaches are in your hiring pool that don't want to run a Tampa 2?

 

What kind of offense should be run?  A quick hitter, or what we have?  How many good coaches want to run the offense we should run and not run a Tampa 2 defense?

 

How many coaches are out there with those qualifications.....and that's even before they interview and show that they can communicate and handle the pressure of being a HC.

 

You don't just fire your current HC without already having asked yourself those questions.  Are there 10 possible coaches you think are better than Pags and want to interview, or about 2?

You are WAY over thinking this. 

[PapaSpeed]

On 12/14/2016 at 11:54 PM, LJpalmbeacher said:

I want pags gone too, I have for a long time.

But who replaces him? I know it would be hard to replace him with someone worse, but I don't want his replacement to be someone just marginally better.

We need a elite coach to take us where we want to go. I hope the timing will be right that a very good HC will be available when page gets let go.

The problem is that if you're not willing to pay big money you're going to get stuck with an up and coming Coordinator or someone coming from college.  I agree but I think it was time to make a change last year.  We have had bad drafts, bad free agency pick ups, Coaches that aren't coaching up who we have, lack of discipline as seen by all the penalties and we are wasting some very good years of some of our younger talented players.  

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

You are WAY over thinking this. 

Actually, compared to an owner who runs billion dollar company, I'm probably way under thinking it.

[Colts_Fan12]

The whole point is just about anyone you bring in will accomplish what Pagano and Grigson have done. just about any of the good to great coaches that will be avaliable will wanna work with luck especially offensive minded like Gruden and McDaniels. We could get a DC like Rex Ryan or Mike Pettine who both can build a very strong 3-4 unit and I'm sure there are many more I can't even think of of the top of my head. Not sure on OC but it's likely Mike McCoy will be avaliable and I think Ken Whisenhunt is too both are very good OC just not great head coaches