You guys do realize we're about a pass rusher or 2 and relative health away from contending

[DalTXColtsFan]

Grunch

 

I think you're being just a BIT too optomistic.

 

Add a passrusher, get key players healthy and improve the consistency of the running game just a bit and the 2016 Colts can beat any 2016 AFC team other than Pittsburgh, Denver or New England 9 times out of 10.  Denver 7 times out of 10, Pitt or NE no more than 2 or 3 times out of 10 tops.

 

To beat 2016 Pittsburgh 9 times out of 10 we need a better #2 corner than Robinson, TWO passrushers and a SIGNIFICANTLY more consistent running game to keep Big Ben, Bell and Brown on the sideline as much as possible.

 

To beat 2016 New England 9 times out of 10 we need all of that PLUS someone who can at least PRETEND to cover Gronk, AND we need better coaching - that's the problem with NE, the hoodie just always seems to outcoach Mr. Grit.

[ztboiler]

50 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I agree with the OP to be honest.  Yeah our defense is currently ranked 30th or 31st.  But imo that is largely due to all of the injuries and a new DC.  We have no idea how much Monachino might have mixed up the scheme in the offseason, but even if he made very few changes, it's still an entirely new coaching staff on D and that alone will lead to struggles.  Add to that all of the injuries to the secondary and the DL, our 2 strongest position groups, and yeah they're definitely going to struggle. 

 

I honestly don't believe that we've truly seen what this defense is capable of in its current state.

I agree as well.  Top defenses work because of timely disruption.  With one disruptive play by McGill, we close out a game.  He was in the backfield a few other times earlier in the game, and it made an impact then too.  

 

It feels like all the good players are on other teams, when in reality, they generally have a couple players that make a few more timely disruptions over the game.  People act like we are devoid of talent on D....no, we are missing 2-3 disruptive players.

 

To your point on Monachino and new staff, its entirely possible that the combination of early season injuries and overall lack of disruptive talent has led him to play everything more vanilla than he should have....it didn't work, and he will probably figure that out.  If he doesn't, he won't be here long.

[cdgacoltsfan]

5 hours ago, James Ducheteau said:

The pats are going to embarrass who ever they play in the AFC championship game

The Pats will get beat this week at the Cap.

[COLTS449]

Well we're a couple EDGE rushers away from being a pretty good D. We're 2 double digit sack machines, 2 really good ILB's with coverage skills, a run stuffing NT, and another solid CB away from being an elite D. That's actually not that much. We can take care of every one of those issues this offseason if somebody with some sense is running the team. 2-3 big money free agents and a sexy draft away baby!!!!

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, corgi said:

If the team could rush the QB it would make the secondaries life a lot easier. Still have he issues at ILB for sure though. Decent to good pass rush and ILB play and the defense is way better.

 

Sure.....     no disagreement.....

 

But we're not two players away from being a very good defense.      

 

We need another corner or two....    another safety....       And another anchor in the middle of the line,   David Parry is too small to be a starter on a playoff caliber defense.      He gets pushed around.

 

No team ranked 30th is two players away from a very good defense.       We need a lot of help.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

I agree with the OP to be honest.  Yeah our defense is currently ranked 30th or 31st.  But imo that is largely due to all of the injuries and a new DC.  We have no idea how much Monachino might have mixed up the scheme in the offseason, but even if he made very few changes, it's still an entirely new coaching staff on D and that alone will lead to struggles.  Add to that all of the injuries to the secondary and the DL, our 2 strongest position groups, and yeah they're definitely going to struggle. 

 

I honestly don't believe that we've truly seen what this defense is capable of in its current state.

 

That last sentence is fine.     We might be better than we know.

 

But that doesn't mean we're a couple of players away from having a good defense which is what the OP argued.      I'm not sure what you're agreeing with?     Even he is saying two players that are not on the roster right now.    

 

Look how good Houston is and they're without JJ Watt.      They've got tons of 1st and 2nd round picks on that side of the ball.       I just made a post last week showing we've invested fewer draft picks on defense under Grigson than any other team in the NFL.

 

We've got 6/7 players who are 30 or older....   the oldest defense in the NFL.

 

We have one play maker --- Vonte --- and he's not enjoying a good season.

 

This is not a playoff caliber defense.     Not yet at least.     And these things don't typically get built over night.   They take time.

 

Could our defense improve a lot this year?     Sure.     Could we get into the 20's perhaps?     Sure.     Could we surprise to the upside?      Sure.

 

But when January comes and push comes to shove,  we don't have the manpower to make a difference.

 

I wish it wasn't so.....

 

[Superman]

16 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Indy needs 2 pass rushing OLBs, 1 good coverage ILB, a true NT, another 2 quality CBs after Davis, and a quality young RB before they truly maximize their potential. 

 

So, no weaknesses then.

 

I think they'd be a legit contender if you give them half of what's on that list, TBH. 

[Superman]

13 hours ago, 19colt said:

Denver has 4 excellent pass rushers. Yeah one was the #2 pick but the other 3 aren't. Indy has to find a way to get a couple then watch the rest of the D suddenly look better!

 

Who?

[19colt]

29 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Who?

 

Von Miller obviously. Demarcus Ware - a FA signing, that takes their D to another level when healthy. Shane Ray - took a risk by trading up for a guy with character issues. Shaq Barrett - Undrafted. Derek Wolfe inside is also up there with the best at his position. 

If there is a better group of pass rushers in the NFL, then I don't know who that is. 

[Superman]

Just now, 19colt said:

 

Von Miller obviously. Demarcus Ware - a FA signing, that takes their D to another level when healthy. Shane Ray - took a risk by trading up for a guy with character issues. Shaq Barrett - Undrafted. Derek Wolfe inside is also up there with the best at his position. 

If there is a better group of pass rushers in the NFL, then I don't know who that is. 

 

I have no problem saying they have the best group of pass rushers in the league. There might be an argument for the Vikings, but I'd say Denver is the best.

 

My question is whether they have four excellent pass rushers. I don't think so. Miller, obviously. Ware used to be an excellent pass rusher, but not only is he not playing right now, he's also getting older and isn't as good as he used to be. He definitely makes an impact, but he benefits from playing alongside Miller. Ray is still young, will probably get better, good prospect.... excellent pass rusher? Not at this time. Barrett, not at all, but a good, functional player. 

 

I assumed you were talking about edge rushers. I think Wolfe is an excellent player, but not an excellent pass rusher. 

 

Splitting hairs, I suppose, but I think the point is that they have one excellent pass rusher, and a complement of good role players who work well together. The Colts don't have that one outstanding player, but that's just one player. They also don't have a complement of good role players -- which includes everyone in the defensive front. But it's easier to find guys like Brandon Marshall, Wolfe, Barrett, Ray, Ware, etc., than it is to find guys like Von Miller. You get that one guy, and everything else can fall into place.

[19colt]

22 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I have no problem saying they have the best group of pass rushers in the league. There might be an argument for the Vikings, but I'd say Denver is the best.

 

My question is whether they have four excellent pass rushers. I don't think so. Miller, obviously. Ware used to be an excellent pass rusher, but not only is he not playing right now, he's also getting older and isn't as good as he used to be. He definitely makes an impact, but he benefits from playing alongside Miller. Ray is still young, will probably get better, good prospect.... excellent pass rusher? Not at this time. Barrett, not at all, but a good, functional player. 

 

I assumed you were talking about edge rushers. I think Wolfe is an excellent player, but not an excellent pass rusher. 

 

Splitting hairs, I suppose, but I think the point is that they have one excellent pass rusher, and a complement of good role players who work well together. The Colts don't have that one outstanding player, but that's just one player. They also don't have a complement of good role players -- which includes everyone in the defensive front. But it's easier to find guys like Brandon Marshall, Wolfe, Barrett, Ray, Ware, etc., than it is to find guys like Von Miller. You get that one guy, and everything else can fall into place.

Agree. I think when on the field, Ware has been excellent. He was dominant in the Superbowl. They will need him vs the Patriots that is for sure. Had the Colts signed him, he probably wouldn't have helped a great deal with the games he has missed. Of course having the Jayhawk combo of Talib and Harris (undrafted) is huge for that D as well.  

[corgi]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sure.....     no disagreement.....

 

But we're not two players away from being a very good defense.      

 

We need another corner or two....    another safety....       And another anchor in the middle of the line,   David Parry is too small to be a starter on a playoff caliber defense.      He gets pushed around.

 

No team ranked 30th is two players away from a very good defense.       We need a lot of help.

I agree. It's going to take time too.

[B~Town]

Everyone is so down on this team but we are close a stud pass rusher we could be undefeated right now looking at a SB it is not far fetched at all . Look at Carolina take away a star on defense they cant hardly win a game anyone who says a great player or a few great players will not make the difference just doesn't have a clue . 

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sure.....     no disagreement.....

 

But we're not two players away from being a very good defense.      

 

We need another corner or two....    another safety....       And another anchor in the middle of the line,   David Parry is too small to be a starter on a playoff caliber defense.      He gets pushed around.

 

 

 

specifically to the point about David Parry....I don't think size has anything to do with it.  He's the same size as Sylvester Williams, who is listed as the starting NT For Denver.  I just don't think he's talented enough...though he could still improve..

 

I think my biggest issue with your opinion though is this line that you've repeated a couple of times:

 

Quote

No team ranked 30th is two players away from a very good defense.      

 

I don't think the current ranking is at all indicative of what this defense is capable of.  So with that being the case, I don't think we can say at this point how many new players and how many more years/drafts it's going to take. 

[Colt Overseas]

I think it will relistically take about three years for us to build a top 10 defense, provided Grigson make right decisions with his recruitment.

 

It might actually be possible after one off season we could have enough talent to be contenders, I dont think were that far off. I think people dont realise we do have an excellent offense that is still very young and should improve onto a new level next year. If the defense can get 2 good olbs, a corner and an ilb in this off season we could have a middle of the road D. That would be enough to easily make the playoffs from our division anyway.

 

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

specifically to the point about David Parry....I don't think size has anything to do with it.  He's the same size as Sylvester Williams, who is listed as the starting NT For Denver.  I just don't think he's talented enough...though he could still improve..

 

I think my biggest issue with your opinion though is this line that you've repeated a couple of times:

 

 

I don't think the current ranking is at all indicative of what this defense is capable of.  So with that being the case, I don't think we can say at this point how many new players and how many more years/drafts it's going to take. 

 

This defense was predicted to be very poor before we even played a snap this year.    I posted links to either an ESPN story on NFL.com story that stressed we were going to be a very poor defense because of our age and lack of play-making talent.

 

Almost no one wanted to hear it.      And yet, here we are.

 

As I said in my last post to you,  we can get better this year.     Barring injuries,  I'm expecting we'll get modestly better.

 

All I'm saying is we're not 1 or 2 players away.    Because look everywhere.....    where's the talent on the current roster?           Again,  Houston loses JJ Watt and their defense barely loses a beat.      We can't do that....

 

[Jason_]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This defense was predicted to be very poor before we even played a snap this year.    I posted links to either an ESPN story on NFL.com story that stressed we were going to be a very poor defense because of our age and lack of play-making talent.

 

I didn't give any credence to any of those articles that were written before the year and to be frank, I still don't.  I agree there is definitely a lack of playmakers, but I don't think age has anything to do with it.  Aside from lack of playmakers, the biggest problems have been injuries and the all new coaching staff.  If the latter 2 work themselves out then the biggest remaining obstacle becomes finding playmakers.  I don't know how many playmakers some people think we need but IMO 1 or 2 make a HUGE difference with this defense, especially if they come in the form of a pass-rushing OLB and a stud ILB.

[NewColtsFan]

36 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I didn't give any credence to any of those articles that were written before the year and to be frank, I still don't.  I agree there is definitely a lack of playmakers, but I don't think age has anything to do with it.  Aside from lack of playmakers, the biggest problems have been injuries and the all new coaching staff.  If the latter 2 work themselves out then the biggest remaining obstacle becomes finding playmakers.  I don't know how many playmakers some people think we need but IMO 1 or 2 make a HUGE difference with this defense, especially if they come in the form of a pass-rushing OLB and a stud ILB.

 

I'll try another way.....

 

If every single player on defense was healthy and playing their best,   this would still be a below average defense.       At best,  it would be average....       And an average defense doesn't take you far in the playoffs.

 

And your first sentence is a head scratcher....      the stories who predicted we'd be bad prior to the start of the season and who have now proven to be right,  you don't give them any credence?      I'm not sure what has to happen before you acknowledge they're right?

 

[Stillen]

Yes, from contending, but we're about half a defense and half an o-line away from being able to threaten elite teams for a Super Bowl.

[JPFolks]

17 hours ago, SkyBane said:

Kidding aside, Mathis is actually a 6 time probowler, 2008-2013. His irrelevance these days is sad to watch, but he will be in the Colts ring of honor one day.

 

Still needs to be replaced though.

On this we agree entirely. I think his notoriety as the sack-fumble expert in the league might have been enough to put him over the edge as a HOF candidate, but I think the PED issue really ended any possibility of it.  

[JPFolks]

17 hours ago, KelownaColtsFan said:

For a guy who was so dominant in his prime, he sure has fallen off a cliff in terms of talent after his injury. Still one of my favorites.

Me too.. probably my favorite defensive player.  Even when Freeny got all the headlines, he was my favorite.  

[JPFolks]

17 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

It was his 2nd TD.

Then they reported it wrong and many others made the same false report.  I didn't look it up, just took what the announcers said as correct.  I wonder how their team of researchers missed that. 

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Then they reported it wrong and many others made the same false report.  I didn't look it up, just took what the announcers said as correct.  I wonder how their team of researchers missed that. 

Good question. Yeah, it was a while back against the Browns but it ended up being a game winning TD so it was all good at the time.

 

[Introspect]

20 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Indy needs 2 pass rushing OLBs, 1 good coverage ILB, a true NT, another 2 quality CBs after Davis, and a quality young RB before they truly maximize their potential. 

 

And a Quality Head Coach

[deedub75]

21 hours ago, Lef said:

I agree that we are close. No team has pro bowl talent at every position. A consistent pass rush and montcrief back in the line up and we are a very strong team - just one man's opinion. 

 

Grigson thinking we were one or two players always is why we are more than just one or two players away. 

[deedub75]

19 hours ago, KelownaColtsFan said:

I would say we are about 4 LB's,  2 DL, a CB, and a RB away from any form of legitimacy, not all need to be pro bowlers but they should at least be starting caliber. The Colts are blessed with a great QB, who makes them somewhat competitive from week to week, but your kidding yourself if you think this team is even close to a championship. If they do some how make the playoffs they will once again be embarrassed by the Patriots.

 

Wow!  By the time we get all of that it will be time to upgrade other positions and pay out some contracts to other players 

[Carlos Danger]

I might agree with the OP of the pass rushers in question were both probowl caliber...

 

It wouldn't completely fix the defense, but that, plus relative health would cover a lot of warts. 

[runthepost]

New linebacks NT and DE, CB RB and maybe TE ( Depends on Doyle production)

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, deedub75 said:

 

Grigson thinking we were one or two players always is why we are more than just one or two players away. 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Yours is not a very long post,  but it has immediately, instantly become one of my favorites!

 

Spot on perfect.

 

Thanks for nailing it!!     

[Mr Coffee]

23 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

While I do understand why you would feel that way I would like just make a couple of points.

Pagano more than likely done his best coaching job last season to bring this team to a 8-8 record. That may sound crazy to some but there was no quit in this team when they had every reason you can think of for them to.

The fight and never give up mentality came from Pagano IMO. This team fought for Pagano and made it clear they were.

Before last season the record speaks for itself. Like it or not Pagano has one of the best records in the NFL for a first 4 1/2 year rookie head coach.

There are some who point fingers and want to bring up all kinds of reasons why Pagano has this record. But the fact remains he has it.

Irsay had patience with Dungy and it paid off. I am not predicting or saying that things will get turned around but changing the head coach now or at the end of the season puts this team back to square one.

There have been so many different reasons fans have brought up we need a change. IMO giving this team a chance to make the changes to improve includes Pagano.

We get it.  You love Pags. And Grigs . Are you related to them or something?  Maybe Pags is your cousin and Grigs is your nephew?

[Mr Coffee]

And Pags shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Dungy.  He had his faults, but overall he was actually a good coach, not a clueless buffoon.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

We get it.  You love Pags. And Grigs . Are you related to them or something?  Maybe Pags is your cousin and Grigs is your nephew?

Really? What is your problem?

I really couldn't care less about what your immature attitude says.

[Mr Coffee]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Really? What is your problem?

I really couldn't care less about what your immature attitude says.

I was just curious, because you'll defend both of them until your dying breath.  Too each his own I guess.  

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

I was just curious, because you'll defend both of them until your dying breath.  Too each his own I guess.  

Don't bother. You have insulted me the last time.

[Colts_Fan12]

3 hours ago, Mr Coffee said:

I was just curious, because you'll defend both of them until your dying breath.  Too each his own I guess.  

^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!!! ^^^^^^^^^

[Narcosys]

On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 8:51 PM, AllYouNeedIsLuck said:

I truly believe this to be the case

 

Shame it'll be hard to get those pass rushers tho....

And an entire O line

[SkyBane]

8 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

And an entire O line

Meh, don't really agree. The O line is serviceable now, particularly if we utilize more of the quick strike timing offense that was flashed in Nashville this week. The only real tire fire position group that needs dumpstered and retooled from the ground up is the linebackers. You could argue bits and bobs with depth and age replacements at other positions, but it's the linebackers that are truly heinous.

[coltsfanatic24]

You can't have a great defense when the middle of it is weak. Pass rush is a need but without ILB's we don't have a chance. 

[jskinnz]

6 minutes ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

You can't have a great defense when the middle of it is weak. Pass rush is a need but without ILB's we don't have a chance. 

 

This not the Big 10 circa 1970's.  The way the NFL is played these days, a healthy pass rush is infinitely more important than ILB's.  Just looked at the way the positions have been valued.

[Narcosys]

And an entire O line

Meh, don't really agree. The O line is serviceable now, particularly if we utilize more of the quick strike timing offense that was flashed in Nashville this week. The only real tire fire position group that needs dumpstered and retooled from the ground up is the linebackers. You could argue bits and bobs with depth and age replacements at other positions, but it's the linebackers that are truly heinous.

Serviceable!? Luck leads the league in times sacked! SERVICEABLE!?!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 *