Thoughts After Bengals-Colts Preseason Game #4

[JPFolks]

Well, thankfully, preseason is finally over.  Most of what happened in the game is irrelevant.  

 

Some thoughts: 

 

I hope we keep Todman.  Question: Isn't Turbin suspended for 4 games?  I had thought he was, but can't find anything about what happened after his drug bust over the summer.  Is it still unresolved?  If he IS suspended, I think it's even more important to have a ready back up in Todman.  But it is his special teams play and dual ability (i.e. he's a legit backup running back who can play well if needed and he's a solid returner and coverage guy on special teams).  Sure, there isn't a ton of evidence for any of these back up players, but I think he seized the small number of opportunities he had.  I think Ferguson was solid in the screen game, but not as much in the actual run game.  Todman also had a couple good protection plays.  

 

I saw nothing from Ridley.  Not sure what we could even base keeping him on.  His name? Past history maybe, but the Patriots certainly were not interested and they 

 

I hope we can get Morris on the Practice squad.  If not for all the injuries, he'd be a no brainer Luxury keep, but sadly that's not our reality.  I just think the kid is really solid as a potential long time back up for Luck.  I understand they'll keep Tolzien due to his experience, but I wonder if there's any shot of him making it to our PS and then to our Roster before someone else gets him.  I hope so.  I was really happy for Morris no matter what happens.  

 

Chester Rogers is a no brainer #4.  I haven't seen much as a receiver from Bray, so I am worried we're an injury away at Receiver from trouble, but feel better with Rogers there.  I think he's better than Whalen ever was and he was functional for us.  I don't really see a #5.  Do you guys?  Sure Smith is listed as #5, but I am not sure he showed us anything.  Neither did McKay, other than height and a good catch late.  

 

Clark really didn't look good against weaker competition than he's seen most of Preseason.  That's too bad.  I sure hope he doesn't have to play.  Let's hope Haeg gets healthy and Reitz is ready to start next week with Haeg ready to back both Tackle positions.  (I know Good may be some help there too).  Blythe played well in this game which was good to see.  Perhaps he's ready to be the back-up C.  Obrien is a mystery to me.  Can anyone tell me with confidence that he's better than say Harrison? I have no idea. I have seen him play poorly. Tonight he was okay and the entire line, except Clark, played pretty decently as a group.  

 

Swoope really has put up when needed.  He was a complete question mark and when we finally get to see him, he's solid on every play.  I feel good about him as our #3 TE.  Coffman is supposed to be a good player, but to be fair, I really never got to see him do much.  

 

I hope we keep Quarles if it comes down to him or Bailey.  I just saw more flashes from him.  Beyond that, I am most excited about our interior D lineman of any position group we have (outside of Luck of course).  (If they're both gone, then so be it).  We could be dominant at that group in the second half of the season if we can somehow keep healthy.  

 

Bates and Morrison got a lot of play tonight albeit against lesser talent.  They looked solid tonight, but are they good enough to play real minutes successfully in the regular season? I guess we'll soon find out.  

 

Okine has gotten a lot of praise, I guess I haven't seen as much as many here have.  Is he a legit PR threat?  Sure. he may be the best we have behind Mathis and Cole (who I didn't realize were the pair of rushers with the most sacks currently in the NFL, let's hope all that production is more than a distant memory).  but it just doesn't seem like much to get excited about.  I hope I'm wrong.  

 

I was happy that Milton got the final INT after he gave up the TD on the previous drive.  It means nothing, he won't be on our team, but it will take a lot of the sting out of the earlier gaffe on the missed tackle.  

 

Our deep back up CB's are weak weak weak.  If Cromartie has an average season left in him, once Davis is back, between those top 3 CB's I will feel much better.  But we're not going to know anything until the balls are flying out of Detroit's prolific passing attack.  Winston Guy didn't look very good tonight, but I realize he's really a special teamer.  But he's our only experience backup safety right? This was the first I saw of Hightower but he made a couple decent plays.  I really didn't see McClure do much.  Darby lit up one guy.  Do we keep any of those 3?  Do we have a choice? 

 

One last thing I have noticed in all our games in the Pagano era.  I never feel confident when we're in the Red Zone.  It's always a penalty, turnover or simple failure leading to a FG attempt.  Is it bad play calling? Bad preparation and discipline?  Bad talent, or just bad luck (small l, not capital L)?  

 

On to the real games.  What are your thoughts?  

[coltsfanej]

I liked Glover-Wright tonight. He's the only corner worth a roster spot that I saw. Ferguson looked good in space. Just wish he got more yards after contact or being tripped. I thought Rogers separated himself. Ridley looked like the worst back that played on either side. I thought both QBs looked pretty good.

[krunk]

Rogers is the real deal. No way he doesn't make this club. Kid plays with Swagger. I will watch the game later on. Comes on at 3am

[krunk]

18 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Well, thankfully, preseason is finally over.  Most of what happened in the game is irrelevant.  

 

Some thoughts: 

 

I hope we keep Todman.  Question: Isn't Turbin suspended for 4 games?  I had thought he was, but can't find anything about what happened after his drug bust over the summer.  Is it still unresolved?  If he IS suspended, I think it's even more important to have a ready back up in Todman.  But it is his special teams play and dual ability (i.e. he's a legit backup running back who can play well if needed and he's a solid returner and coverage guy on special teams).  Sure, there isn't a ton of evidence for any of these back up players, but I think he seized the small number of opportunities he had.  I think Ferguson was solid in the screen game, but not as much in the actual run game.  Todman also had a couple good protection plays.  

 

I saw nothing from Ridley.  Not sure what we could even base keeping him on.  His name? Past history maybe, but the Patriots certainly were not interested and they 

 

I hope we can get Morris on the Practice squad.  If not for all the injuries, he'd be a no brainer Luxury keep, but sadly that's not our reality.  I just think the kid is really solid as a potential long time back up for Luck.  I understand they'll keep Tolzien due to his experience, but I wonder if there's any shot of him making it to our PS and then to our Roster before someone else gets him.  I hope so.  I was really happy for Morris no matter what happens.  

 

Chester Rogers is a no brainer #4.  I haven't seen much as a receiver from Bray, so I am worried we're an injury away at Receiver from trouble, but feel better with Rogers there.  I think he's better than Whalen ever was and he was functional for us.  I don't really see a #5.  Do you guys?  Sure Smith is listed as #5, but I am not sure he showed us anything.  Neither did McKay, other than height and a good catch late.  

 

Clark really didn't look good against weaker competition than he's seen most of Preseason.  That's too bad.  I sure hope he doesn't have to play.  Let's hope Haeg gets healthy and Reitz is ready to start next week with Haeg ready to back both Tackle positions.  (I know Good may be some help there too).  Blythe played well in this game which was good to see.  Perhaps he's ready to be the back-up C.  Obrien is a mystery to me.  Can anyone tell me with confidence that he's better than say Harrison? I have no idea. I have seen him play poorly. Tonight he was okay and the entire line, except Clark, played pretty decently as a group.  

 

Swoope really has put up when needed.  He was a complete question mark and when we finally get to see him, he's solid on every play.  I feel good about him as our #3 TE.  Coffman is supposed to be a good player, but to be fair, I really never got to see him do much.  

 

I hope we keep Quarles if it comes down to him or Bailey.  I just saw more flashes from him.  Beyond that, I am most excited about our interior D lineman of any position group we have (outside of Luck of course).  (If they're both gone, then so be it).  We could be dominant at that group in the second half of the season if we can somehow keep healthy.  

 

Bates and Morrison got a lot of play tonight albeit against lesser talent.  They looked solid tonight, but are they good enough to play real minutes successfully in the regular season? I guess we'll soon find out.  

 

Okine has gotten a lot of praise, I guess I haven't seen as much as many here have.  Is he a legit PR threat?  Sure. he may be the best we have behind Mathis and Cole (who I didn't realize were the pair of rushers with the most sacks currently in the NFL, let's hope all that production is more than a distant memory).  but it just doesn't seem like much to get excited about.  I hope I'm wrong.  

 

I was happy that Milton got the final INT after he gave up the TD on the previous drive.  It means nothing, he won't be on our team, but it will take a lot of the sting out of the earlier gaffe on the missed tackle.  

 

Our deep back up CB's are weak weak weak.  If Cromartie has an average season left in him, once Davis is back, between those top 3 CB's I will feel much better.  But we're not going to know anything until the balls are flying out of Detroit's prolific passing attack.  Winston Guy didn't look very good tonight, but I realize he's really a special teamer.  But he's our only experience backup safety right? This was the first I saw of Hightower but he made a couple decent plays.  I really didn't see McClure do much.  Darby lit up one guy.  Do we keep any of those 3?  Do we have a choice? 

 

One last thing I have noticed in all our games in the Pagano era.  I never feel confident when we're in the Red Zone.  It's always a penalty, turnover or simple failure leading to a FG attempt.  Is it bad play calling? Bad preparation and discipline?  Bad talent, or just bad luck (small l, not capital L)?  

 

On to the real games.  What are your thoughts?  

didn't see the game yet but the stats say Mckay caught 4 for 45

[Everyone]

Just now, krunk said:

didn't see the game yet but the stats say Mckay caught 4 for 45

I think 25 came from that one sideline catch in the last drive. 

[IinD]

The secondary is most worrisome to me. Not basing it off of this game, couldn't get the stream. But if/when injuries occur, they could be really bad, other then Vontae we aren't scaring anyone on the back end of the D.

The young guys have to play above their experience levels for us to be an acceptable D.

 

Totally agree on red zone identity. Sometimes we sputter in ugly fashion down there.

 

Appreciate the write up JPF.

[ColtsLegacy]

10 minutes ago, coltsfanej said:

I liked Glover-Wright tonight. He's the only corner worth a roster spot that I saw. Ferguson looked good in space. Just wish he got more yards after contact or being tripped. I thought Rogers separated himself. Ridley looked like the worst back that played on either side. I thought both QBs looked pretty good.

 

If Glover-Wright makes the team, I quit the team.

[IinD]

3 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

If Glover-Wright makes the team, I quit the team.

Not a fan either. That's a dumb or dumberer type pick. Not many of the young CB's inspire. Granted they're young, but if they see long stretches of time they'll get exposed when the real season starts.

[coltsfanej]

I only saw him give up one catch tonight and it was a slant that he wasn't terrible coverage. Maybe I missed some plays

[coltsfanej]

6 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

If Glover-Wright makes the team, I quit the team.

 

[krunk]

Saw the highlight of Tevaun Smith catching a bubble screen and taking it to the house. He and Rogers are impressive.

[JPFolks]

Just now, krunk said:

didn't see the game yet but the stats say Mckay caught 4 for 45

I saw him make one really good late catch on the sideline.  The rest of the game didn't make a big impact.  I'll list his catches below.  

 

He missed a catch on the second drive.  He caught a ball for 5 yards on 2nd down on the third drive but was a yard short of the first.  In the third Q he had another 5 yard catch just before Todman busted a run for 24 yards.  I think there was a fumble on his catch but he recovered, but I might have it wrong.  

 

On the next drive he had an 11 yard catch for a first.  That one I forgot about.  There was another couple throws to him deep but incomplete.  

 

The game winning drive was when McKay had a nice sideline catch for 23 yards.  That was huge.  

 

By the way, I mistakenly credited Rogers in my mind for the game winning TD but it was actually Smith, so I want to give him credit for that as it was a GREAT play by Smith. 

[twfish]

I really appreciate you doing these but this is probably really not your forte. Alot of times it makes me wonder how in depth you watch the game, most of the time what you say can easily be picked apart such as saying theres no sure person behind Rogers. Well if you haven't noticed smith has started a couple games and has had tons of playing time and good catches. Maybe sit back a rewatch the game and make better judgement before making the thread. I for one will go back and watch the game 2-3 times watching some individual plays 3-5 times depending on what happened, sure it's very time consuming but it helps you see things you initially missed. I don't mean this as an insult maybe some constructive criticism.

[JPFolks]

21 minutes ago, coltsfanej said:

I liked Glover-Wright tonight. He's the only corner worth a roster spot that I saw. Ferguson looked good in space. Just wish he got more yards after contact or being tripped. I thought Rogers separated himself. Ridley looked like the worst back that played on either side. I thought both QBs looked pretty good.

I wanted to like him, but he also whiffed on some stuff.  Granted, he's the best of the rest it appears, but if we have to play him meaningful minutes against real NFL talent, I think we're going to get torched.  

[krunk]

1 minute ago, JPFolks said:

I wanted to like him, but he also whiffed on some stuff.  Granted, he's the best of the rest it appears, but if we have to play him meaningful minutes against real NFL talent, I think we're going to get torched.  

I wouldn't put much thought into him. You know Grigs is going hunting once the cuts start happening. Probably bring in a vet or two from a 3-4 team that runs the same defense. Or one or two real promising young guys.

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, twfish said:

I really appreciate you doing these but this is probably really not your forte. Alot of times it makes me wonder how in depth you watch the game, most of the time what you say can easily be picked apart such as saying theres no sure person behind Rogers. Well if you haven't noticed smith has started a couple games and has had tons of playing time and good catches. Maybe sit back a rewatch the game and make better judgement before making the thread. I for one will go back and watch the game 2-3 times watching some individual plays 3-5 times depending on what happened, sure it's very time consuming but it helps you see things you initially missed. I don't mean this as an insult maybe some constructive criticism.

I don't mean to insult right after doing it? Nice.

[RockThatBlue]

22 minutes ago, krunk said:

Saw the highlight of Tevaun Smith catching a bubble screen and taking it to the house. He and Rogers are impressive.

They both were good tonight. McKay was solid too imo.

[krunk]

Chester Rogers is no Duron Carter! Balled in camp and in the games.

[tvturner]

McKay, Rogers, and Smith. I want all of them to make the roster. 

[JPFolks]

@twfish 

 

Well, if you're as thorough as you suggest, you'll have seen me break down in very descriptive detail play after play when we were focused on the O-Line play.  Also, each week I usually mention that I will go back and rewatch the game to pick up additional info.   Even on this very post before your criticism, I posted details of the catches and targets for McKay.  I ALSO mentioned that in real time, in my head (since I didn't mention it) I mistook Smith for Rogers on the game winning TD and wanted to credit him for a great play.  

 

The game had just ended when I posted.  No one could have rewatched it that fast, but I know people like to discuss the game afterwards and for whatever reason, I am the only person who has posted a recap of each game right after it was over.   Do I see every single play in detail on Offense and Defense? Nope.  Neither do you.  The difference is I come to a message board for discussion, not to simply state detailed play by play on a meaningless Game 4 preseason game.  I gleaned what I could from it.  It appears you are a Smith supporter.  That's great, why not add something useful and discuss in great detail all his preseason play which makes him a standout? I'd be happy to read it.  But you haven't done that for the past 4 games up to this point that I have seen (feel free to direct me to it), so your criticism seems a little gratuitous to me simply because overall, I am not that impressed with Smith as I have been with Rogers and I am not all that excited by him as our #5.  I could be wrong, and so could you.  That's why we have discussions and opinions right? We'll likely keep him or Bray, so we'll know soon enough.  I'd rather have a proven veteran who got cut.  

 

Not sure what else to say, other than no one has forced you to read my posts.  Afterall, if you've read all 4 of them it suggests you must have some level of interest in them OR you're a masochist. Either way no one is stopping you from a detailed argument supporting Smith.  I'll be happy to take a look.  

[krunk]

Yiggy yes yallin Swoope doggy dawgin! Solid game again.

[JPFolks]

Just now, krunk said:

Yiggy yes yallin Swoope doggy dawgin! Solid game again.

He really was. His play may be the biggest pleasant surprise of the preseason.  

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

He really was. His play may be the biggest pleasant surprise of the preseason.  

I dont think it will be long before hes challenging for the #2 spot when he gets his blocking tightened up. Better athlete than Doyle.

[JPFolks]

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

I dont think it will be long before hes challenging for the #2 spot when he gets his blocking tightened up. Better athlete than Doyle.

You know he has had some solid blocks and even had one at Fullback which is Doyle's usual spot, so you could have nailed that one.  

[IndySouthsider]

Wierd. I lost a post

 

 

Morris can't be signed to anybodies PS.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I think based on this game we will beat the Lions 41-10. Yeeeeesssssssssssss! (sarcasm). We should play Morris instead of Luck to take it easy on them.

[krunk]

Just now, JPFolks said:

You know he has had some solid blocks and even had one at Fullback which is Doyle's usual spot, so you could have nailed that one.  

To let Fleener go like they did with nothing else behind Allen but Swoope kind of told me they had a decent amount of trust he could play. Hes just as fast as Fleener to me.

[JPFolks]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think based on this game we will beat the Lions 41-10. Yeeeeesssssssssssss! (sarcasm). We should play Morris instead of Luck to take it easy on them.

When it comes to the Detroit game, all we learned from this one that is relevant is that we better get some starters back on Defense or it could get ugly.  

[JPFolks]

2 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

Wierd. I lost a post

 

 

Morris can't be signed to anybodies PS.

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't realize he wasn't eligible.  How many years has he been floating around? 

[Black0ut117]

I watched the first half of the game and saw Curt Maggitt do a little bit in the pash rush game but I saw that he gave over a few big runs that went his way. Did anyone see anything good come of him in the second half or previous?

[Jules]

My biggest thought is that pre-season is FINALLY over. Yes!!!!

[Shive]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't realize he wasn't eligible.  How many years has he been floating around? 

Signed as an UDFA in 2014 with Jacksonville (to their PS), was released Sept '15, claimed off waivers by Philly then released and signed to their PS a few weeks later, and we added him to our roster Dec '15. So yep, he's not eligible, since he's spent 2 seasons on a PS.

[RockThatBlue]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

Chester Rogers is no Duron Carter! Balled in camp and in the games.

Hes no Da'Rick Rogers either lol

[JPFolks]

20 minutes ago, Shive said:

Signed as an UDFA in 2014 with Jacksonville (to their PS), was released Sept '15, claimed off waivers by Philly then released and signed to their PS a few weeks later, and we added him to our roster Dec '15. So yep, he's not eligible, since he's spent 2 seasons on a PS.

Thanks, I didn't realize he was a third year guy.  

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

To let Fleener go like they did with nothing else behind Allen but Swoope kind of told me they had a decent amount of trust he could play. Hes just as fast as Fleener to me.

 

Swoope reminds me of Marcus Pollard .

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, JPFolks said:

He really was. His play may be the biggest pleasant surprise of the preseason.  

Yeah maybe another Pollard in the making. 

[krunk]

I'm watching the game right now.   I think Ridley looks good and let me explain what I mean. He's got burst and still moves with that twitch he used to have.  I wouldn't even be looking for stats too much considering he just stepped in the door a couple days ago and doesn't know the playbook. 

 

Just like Caldwell said he's still got some juice left. The couple runs he had were not blocked well, and then some of that is just having zero continuity with that offensive line. He doesn't know hardly any of them and then they are back ups as well.  He hit the holes the way a veteran back would and ran with power. Still had good twitch to me. In a case where a guy is walking right in off the streets you want to see if he's still got good movement and from what I saw he did.  The stats wouldn't even be very important to me.  I did think he had a really nice 5 yard run off the right side of the line though.  I would kick the tires on him long term if we were to keep 4 backs.  I wouldnt cut Todman though, but I most certainly would cut Ferguson.  Ridley would improve much more as he learned the playbook and worked with the offensive line. From what I saw of him I'm sure of that.  He didn't move like a guy who has any type of lingering knee problem. 

[krunk]

I can't believe I actually saw a play where Swoope dished out some pain!   Not that it was earth shaking, but they threw him the ball on a play action pass in the flats.  He caught the ball, turned around and had two defenders coming at him.  He lowered his pad level and made contact.  One of the guys was laying on the ground hurt.   That's what I like to see Swoope!  He didn't run high and let them blow him up.  He met the contact and ran through it. 

[krunk]

I noticed we had Art Jones out there playing.  I wonder if they were just getting him some playing time since he'll be suspended 4 games or are they thinking about cutting him?

[Matabix]

I think we should cut Bray to make room for Rogers, Smith, and McKale.

Todman can do kr and Rogers can do pr