The Pep Hamilton thread [Mega-merge]

[Malakai432]

I know it hurts, but we're doing this because we care about you

 

!

[Malakai432]

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!  WHY GOD?  WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY???!!!!?!?!?

 

[ColtRider]

Yeah, I'll take espn and other media sources over some guy who thinks he knows better due to his ammount of time on certain message boards

Some advice: Take the time to investigate this forum. It'll do a world of good. Truth leaks by expression. Once learned, it serves extremely well for future evaluations. Of all of it's attributes, it teaches when to speak and when to be silent. Lessons well learned by many from this forum, including me.

[NewColtsFan]

I understand, I guess I have been kind of argumentative, but I think we are both a little at fault of that. I apologize if my tone was kind of rude.

Again, with all due respect, I did read you links but they don't seem to substantiate your claim nearly as well as mine, and I think it's silly that I should believe you based on your time on another board.

 

Bubbz....     My apologies....    this is going to be a long response.    No other way around it.    So, if you're awake late reading this,  might as well drink a beer while you're doing it.  

 

Here, to the best my ability, and understanding is the often bizarre way plays are called at Stanford, at least since 2007.......     I'm sorry I didn't post this much sooner,  it might have helped all parties to understand.

 

It started under Harbaugh who was the coach from 2007 to 2010.

 

The first two years Stanford was getting better after crawling out of the gutter.     Shaw was the OC.

 

In 2009, Luck (who came in 2008) was ready to start playing.     Harbaugh brought in Greg Roman and gave him the official title of "Running Game Coordinator"    Shaw still had the OC title (but fans later learned he'd be demoted but allowed to keep the title) and Shaw also got "Passing Game Coordinator"  and Pep had the "Red Zone coordinator"  title. 

 

The fan base said......   "Huh?"

 

But the news got out about Roman running the offense and calling plays.   The players started calling Roman the "Mad Genius!"    Every week he'd come up with a couple of new plays that were not in the playbook,  just for that weeks opponents.    New plays and new formations.    And Stanford kids being smart,  they picked them up and they worked.

 

Whenever asked about who calls plays,  Harbaugh (notoriously private)  would say something like...   "It depends on down and distance and where we are on the field."   But the play caller was definitely Roman.    Now,  that said,  Harbaugh would absolutely have the final word.    He'd change a call if he didn't like it.

 

When Harbaugh left and took Roman with him,  there was no talk that he wanted Shaw and Pep.    Shaw was a candidate for the HC job and so was Roman.    The position went to Shaw and he announced Pep as the OC.

 

No other offensive assistants got any other titles other than the conventional titles of "WR coach" or "RB coach"

 

Pep was the OC for two years,  2011 and 2012.    One with Luck, and one with Hogan, who was a red-shirt freshman.

 

The view is Pep called the plays down to Shaw,  who then either approved the call and signaled it in, or changed it and signaled it in.

 

Perhaps this is semantics.       Shaw signals in the plays,  he doesn't send in a play he doesn't approve of.    But the call started with Pep and went through Shaw.    How many calls did Shaw change from whatever Pep called --- no one knows.

 

Pep comes to Indy and the new OC at Stanford is the OL coach, Mile Bloomgren.    Same drill.    Bloomgren sends the call to Shaw, who either approves and signals it in, or he doesn't approve and sends in whatever he wants.     But the call originates from Bloomgren.

 

It's just impossible for me to believe that Shaw would let Indy hire Pep if he didn't think Pep was ready to do the job.     And it's impossible for me to think that Luck would sign-off on Pep if he thought Pep wasn't up to the job.     It just wouldn't make any sense at all to me?      Luck is still an asset to Stanford.   Shaw sending Pep to Indy if he didn't think Pep was ready to be our OC is inconceivable to me.

 

How many calls of Pep's and now Bloomgren does Shaw change?     No one knows and he, like Harbaugh, keeps it to himself.

 

Am I 100% sure of all of this?      No.      But I'd say my confidence level is in the high 90's.

 

The reason I made that big long post about my Stanford background is only to say the Stanford community is small.    It's not hard to get to know people.   Some of the people I know are among the most wealthy and powerful within the Stanford athletic department.    They've been kind enough to share some information with me over the year.s      Not a lot.     But enough to give me a picture on several issues.       

 

Finally.....

 

I'd like to share a thought....     I am wrong plenty here on this website.    I take plenty of unpopular and often wrong-headed stands and I get challenged all the time.    And I'm OK with that.     That's the way these message boards work.     I'm really OK with that.

 

And sometimes I offer up a thought or a view and it's not well thought out (yes, you can quote me on that!)  and I post it,  and there's a flood of pushback here on the website.      I've walked into one or two hornets nests over the years.      And it's never fun.     But I'm not perfect and I'm wrong plenty.     You'll get to celebrate often enough when I end up with egg on my face.     And maybe it'll come out that I have egg on my face on this issue.     But I wouldn't say the odds are very good on that one.    Possible?     Yes.      Likely?      Not very.

 

I want to be clear........    I don't care if people disagree with me.    I'm fine with that.

 

I do care when the disagreements get ugly and turn personal.     So, I'll try harder not to pour gasoline on the fire.     

 

I hope this post helps clear the air.....

[ColtsBlueFL]

Except he does adapt. He doesn't stubbornly stick to things that don't work. It sounds more like you're describing the Arians offense that Luck ran in his rookie year.

 

Yeah, that Arians guy... really bad.  Nearly ruined Luck in 2012 and is now ruining what is left of Carson Palmer.  He should be kicked out of the league... Never changes to try to win games and is an endangerment of QB's.

 

[RockThatBlue]

Asked about the long down-and-distance situations that result from penalties, Hamilton said his game plans do account for the possibility and provides options for situations like first-and-20. But he added, half grinning, "We've used up a lot of the plays that we've had as part of that long-yardage (menu) and hope that that does not continue. It's been extreme."

Hamilton was asked about tactics that might get the offense going, such as greater use of the no-huddle offense or more dependency on quicker throws (to account for shaky pass protection), but he insisted both of those things have been a part of his game plans this season.

As the Colts continue to underwhelm, now sitting at 3-4, coach Chuck Pagano's seat is getting hotter. But Hamilton is coming under greater scrutiny, too, since he pushes the buttons on offense. Asked about that reality on Thursday, Hamilton appeared unfazed. He did get a vote of confidence from Pagano this week, for whatever it's worth.

"I think he's outstanding," Pagano said on a teleconference with reporters in Charlotte, N.C., Hamilton's hometown. "I think, like anything else, it'd be real easy to sit back and, hindsight is always 20-20, and say well, 'Why didn't you do this or that?' … But when you fall behind it becomes difficult."

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/10/29/indianapolis-colts-offensive-coordinator-pep-hamilton/74822270/

The problem is Chuck, the play calling helps to dig us a hole.

[ColtRider]

Yeah, that Arians guy... really bad.  Nearly ruined Luck in 2012 and is now ruining what is left of Carson Palmer.  He should be kicked out of the league... Never changes to try to win games and is an endangerment of QB's.

 

Speaking of Bruce Arians. I was asked recently about a team that could somehow acquire Arians as HC & Zimmer as DC? Took me for a loop at first. Then, I replied "How about the AFC East, except New England?" The party I was spending time with said, "BB might finally become a bit squeamish!" Wow, I thought. That's probably the type of combo along with player personnel to finally threaten/equal/ and/or overthrow the Pats every year on an even keel. Thought it was extremely interesting.

Yeah, I know. In Indy. Or anywhere else for that matter. Sometimes it's fun to speculate when things aren't going your way.

[Bubbz]

Bubbz....     My apologies....    this is going to be a long response.    No other way around it.    So, if you're awake late reading this,  might as well drink a beer while you're doing it.  

 

Here, to the best my ability, and understanding is the often bizarre way plays are called at Stanford, at least since 2007.......     I'm sorry I didn't post this much sooner,  it might have helped all parties to understand.

 

It started under Harbaugh who was the coach from 2007 to 2010.

 

The first two years Stanford was getting better after crawling out of the gutter.     Shaw was the OC.

 

In 2009, Luck (who came in 2008) was ready to start playing.     Harbaugh brought in Greg Roman and gave him the official title of "Running Game Coordinator"    Shaw still had the OC title (but fans later learned he'd be demoted but allowed to keep the title) and Shaw also got "Passing Game Coordinator"  and Pep had the "Red Zone coordinator"  title. 

 

The fan base said......   "Huh?"

 

But the news got out about Roman running the offense and calling plays.   The players started calling Roman the "Mad Genius!"    Every week he'd come up with a couple of new plays that were not in the playbook,  just for that weeks opponents.    New plays and new formations.    And Stanford kids being smart,  they picked them up and they worked.

 

Whenever asked about who calls plays,  Harbaugh (notoriously private)  would say something like...   "It depends on down and distance and where we are on the field."   But the play caller was definitely Roman.    Now,  that said,  Harbaugh would absolutely have the final word.    He'd change a call if he didn't like it.

 

When Harbaugh left and took Roman with him,  there was no talk that he wanted Shaw and Pep.    Shaw was a candidate for the HC job and so was Roman.    The position went to Shaw and he announced Pep as the OC.

 

No other offensive assistants got any other titles other than the conventional titles of "WR coach" or "RB coach"

 

Pep was the OC for two years,  2011 and 2012.    One with Luck, and one with Hogan, who was a red-shirt freshman.

 

The view is Pep called the plays down to Shaw,  who then either approved the call and signaled it in, or changed it and signaled it in.

 

Perhaps this is semantics.       Shaw signals in the plays,  he doesn't send in a play he doesn't approve of.    But the call started with Pep and went through Shaw.    How many calls did Shaw change from whatever Pep called --- no one knows.

 

Pep comes to Indy and the new OC at Stanford is the OL coach, Mile Bloomgren.    Same drill.    Bloomgren sends the call to Shaw, who either approves and signals it in, or he doesn't approve and sends in whatever he wants.     But the call originates from Bloomgren.

 

It's just impossible for me to believe that Shaw would let Indy hire Pep if he didn't think Pep was ready to do the job.     And it's impossible for me to think that Luck would sign-off on Pep if he thought Pep wasn't up to the job.     It just wouldn't make any sense at all to me?      Luck is still an asset to Stanford.   Shaw sending Pep to Indy if he didn't think Pep was ready to be our OC is inconceivable to me.

 

How many calls of Pep's and now Bloomgren does Shaw change?     No one knows and he, like Harbaugh, keeps it to himself.

 

Am I 100% sure of all of this?      No.      But I'd say my confidence level is in the high 90's.

 

The reason I made that big long post about my Stanford background is only to say the Stanford community is small.    It's not hard to get to know people.   Some of the people I know are among the most wealthy and powerful within the Stanford athletic department.    They've been kind enough to share some information with me over the year.s      Not a lot.     But enough to give me a picture on several issues.       

 

Finally.....

 

I'd like to share a thought....     I am wrong plenty here on this website.    I take plenty of unpopular and often wrong-headed stands and I get challenged all the time.    And I'm OK with that.     That's the way these message boards work.     I'm really OK with that.

 

And sometimes I offer up a thought or a view and it's not well thought out (yes, you can quote me on that!)  and I post it,  and there's a flood of pushback here on the website.      I've walked into one or two hornets nests over the years.      And it's never fun.     But I'm not perfect and I'm wrong plenty.     You'll get to celebrate often enough when I end up with egg on my face.     And maybe it'll come out that I have egg on my face on this issue.     But I wouldn't say the odds are very good on that one.    Possible?     Yes.      Likely?      Not very.

 

I want to be clear........    I don't care if people disagree with me.    I'm fine with that.

 

I do care when the disagreements get ugly and turn personal.     So, I'll try harder not to pour gasoline on the fire.     

 

I hope this post helps clear the air.....

Awesome post

 

I can mostly agree with everything you have written with the exception Pep's play calling was even more limited than you said. 

 

At any rate, Shaw is and was the official play caller at Stanford. There is a small "chance" that Pep had little to do with any of the actual play calling. All things considered... I think it was a bad hire. Even if what you said is true (which I am willing to acknowledge there is a large chance of that being true), I dont think Pep was in any capacity to be an NFL offensive coordinator. Thats kind of my gripe.

 

Yes he was good last year, but he's doing some real quirky things this season. First, refusal to run the ball. We would give Trent 15+ carries sometimes. Gore has been very effective when we give him touches, yet he gets a lot less than Trent did? Why? He refuses to throw screen passes. We have big TE's and WRs (Andre, Moncrief) that could get out in front of T.Y and really put the smack down on some d-backs for some big gains. He needs to get Luck going early. Complete some easy passes. And run the ball, take some pressure off Andrew (physically and mentally). There is a ton more that has been pointed out by others. I myself wouldnt know what to say about why hes doing so bad from last year, but I still dont think he is the guy to take us to the superbowl.

 

Long story short, excellent post. That is very possible. At any rate, I think he was in over his head with an NFL OC title. Now its starting to show. I dont think he is "the guy" and that he was a bad hire to begin with, all in retrospect.

[Bubbz]

ESPN's not really riding high in the quality of journalism stakes right now.

Are you purposefully trying to be rude or is it just your natural way of interacting with people?

I have been rather brash, although I am not the only one guilty. 

 

I apologize to anyone if I was rude on the issue. I like discussing this. 

[Tsarquise]

Yeah, that Arians guy... really bad. Nearly ruined Luck in 2012 and is now ruining what is left of Carson Palmer. He should be kicked out of the league... Never changes to try to win games and is an endangerment of QB's.

What? I never said that...didn't even suggest that. But okay.

Arians like deep routes, that's all. Never made a judgement on whether that is good or bad. Weird post...

[SteelCityColt]

I have been rather brash, although I am not the only one guilty. 

 

I apologize to anyone if I was rude on the issue. I like discussing this.

Fair enough, it can be hard to assess the tone of someone's post and misunderstandings happen but this is the right way to sort them.

Good job.

[NewEra]

If chuck is actually sticking up for and endorsing Pep then it's time for him to go also. I've been sticking up for chuck saying he needs to be able to run his own team without interference from Grigson. But if he do t see the problems then he is part of it. Dueces!

[NewColtsFan]

Awesome post

 

I can mostly agree with everything you have written with the exception Pep's play calling was even more limited than you said. 

 

At any rate, Shaw is and was the official play caller at Stanford. There is a small "chance" that Pep had little to do with any of the actual play calling. All things considered... I think it was a bad hire. Even if what you said is true (which I am willing to acknowledge there is a large chance of that being true), I dont think Pep was in any capacity to be an NFL offensive coordinator. Thats kind of my gripe.

 

Yes he was good last year, but he's doing some real quirky things this season. First, refusal to run the ball. We would give Trent 15+ carries sometimes. Gore has been very effective when we give him touches, yet he gets a lot less than Trent did? Why? He refuses to throw screen passes. We have big TE's and WRs (Andre, Moncrief) that could get out in front of T.Y and really put the smack down on some d-backs for some big gains. He needs to get Luck going early. Complete some easy passes. And run the ball, take some pressure off Andrew (physically and mentally). There is a ton more that has been pointed out by others. I myself wouldnt know what to say about why hes doing so bad from last year, but I still dont think he is the guy to take us to the superbowl.

 

Long story short, excellent post. That is very possible. At any rate, I think he was in over his head with an NFL OC title. Now its starting to show. I dont think he is "the guy" and that he was a bad hire to begin with, all in retrospect.

 

Thanks....    appreciate the kind words....    and you won't get me to defend Pep's work this year.    Remember,  I called for him to be fired after week 2,  the game with the Jets.      I had seen enough.

 

But his first year,  Luck cut his interceptions way down,  so I had hope that Pep was helping Luck grow as a QB.     Then last year,  Pep's interceptions went way up, so I wasn't happy.      That said,   some of that is on Luck trying to make big plays when there are check downs to take advantage of.    I don't know why Luck doesn't do that more often?     Drives me crazy.

 

And no running game (13/14) and a poor OL (every year of Luck)  is beyond frustrating for everyone here....    me included!

 

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything happens,  if we lay another egg on Monday night football.      We have a shot week before facing Denver,  with the best defense in the NFL.      Yikes!    That won't be pretty!   

 

And then, after Denver,  comes the Bye........     will Irsay pull the trigger if we're sitting there 3-6 or 4-5?         3-6, I think he does.    4-5,  I'm not as sure........

[ColtRider]

Thanks....    appreciate the kind words....    and you won't get me to defend Pep's work this year.    Remember,  I called for him to be fired after week 2,  the game with the Jets.      I had seen enough.

 

But his first year,  Luck cut his interceptions way down,  so I had hope that Pep was helping Luck grow as a QB.     Then last year,  Pep's interceptions went way up, so I wasn't happy.      That said,   some of that is on Luck trying to make big plays when there are check downs to take advantage of.    I don't know why Luck doesn't do that more often?     Drives me crazy.

 

And no running game (13/14) and a poor OL (every year of Luck)  is beyond frustrating for everyone here....    me included!

 

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything happens,  if we lay another egg on Monday night football.      We have a shot week before facing Denver,  with the best defense in the NFL.      Yikes!    That won't be pretty!   

 

And then, after Denver,  comes the Bye........     will Irsay pull the trigger if we're sitting there 3-6 or 4-5?         3-6, I think he does.    4-5,  I'm not as sure........

For the life of me, I cannot understand not switching to the West Coast style of play while incorporating the run much more. From going over and over prior games via DVR, seems it would serve this team well. It certainly would engage the element of surprise at the very least from play to play. Right now we're so predictable, my 12 year old granddaughter started calling plays from past games she hadn't even seen this year. To me, that's frightening.

[F.T. Walton]

This is just a very poorly coached team all the way around.

You could say that again.

[NewColtsFan]

For the life of me, I cannot understand not switching to the West Coast style of play while incorporating the run much more. From going over and over prior games via DVR, seems it would serve this team well. It certainly would engage the element of surprise at the very least from play to play. Right now we're so predictable, my 12 year old granddaughter started calling plays from past games she hadn't even seen this year. To me, that's frightening.

 

Wow.....   pretty scary!

 

When you're sitting at home and you can tell by personnel groupings plus down and distance and formation what we're likely to do,  that's not so good....  

 

We've got issues.      Now the question becomes,  can we fix them on the fly?     Pep has done that in years past,  but now can he do it again?

[NewEra]

For the life of me, I cannot understand not switching to the West Coast style of play while incorporating the run much more. From going over and over prior games via DVR, seems it would serve this team well. It certainly would engage the element of surprise at the very least from play to play. Right now we're so predictable, my 12 year old granddaughter started calling plays from past games she hadn't even seen this year. To me, that's frightening.

That's what a few of us have really been ticked about. When we can sit there in the game thread and know what formation and plays are coming you know damn well professional defensive coordinators know. It's beyond sad. The fact that Pagano has come out to defend him is truly disappointing. Season end, he's gone also.

[NewEra]

Wow..... pretty scary!

When you're sitting at home and you can tell by personnel groupings plus down and distance and formation what we're likely to do, that's not so good....

We've got issues. Now the question becomes, can we fix them on the fly? Pep has done that in years past, but now can he do it again?

If he can game plan and call plays like MH is playing we have a chance. It's almost as if he's trying to be to tricky or cute and going for big plays instead of getting into a nice rythm. Get a rythm going, get Luck feeling good, get the D on their heels then hit them with big plays here and there. Hit them with the play action. I'm just over it. I'm ready for him to go.

[ColtRider]

Wow.....   pretty scary!

 

When you're sitting at home and you can tell by personnel groupings plus down and distance and formation what we're likely to do,  that's not so good....  

 

We've got issues.      Now the question becomes,  can we fix them on the fly?     Pep has done that in years past,  but now can he do it again?

Well, I must admit that she's very astute concerning the NFL and the Colts coming from a staunchly entrenched family of fans. I'm afraid if Pep doesn't correct this, it's not going to be good. That's a given. I certainly hope he/we can right the ship before it sinks. Stopping the penalties and turnovers would go a long way. That would at least suture the wound. To heal it, antibiotics of much superior play calling and changing the bandages often of sets & formations along with execution might save the season.

[NewColtsFan]

Well, I must admit that she's very astute concerning the NFL and the Colts coming from a staunchly entrenched family of fans. I'm afraid if Pep doesn't correct this, it's not going to be good. That's a given. I certainly hope he/we can right the ship before it sinks. Stopping the penalties and turnovers would go a long way. That would at least suture the wound. To heal it, antibiotics of much superior play calling and changing the bandages often of sets & formations along with execution might save the season.

 

Nice metaphors!!   I like it!!       

[Bubbz]

Thanks....    appreciate the kind words....    and you won't get me to defend Pep's work this year.    Remember,  I called for him to be fired after week 2,  the game with the Jets.      I had seen enough.

 

But his first year,  Luck cut his interceptions way down,  so I had hope that Pep was helping Luck grow as a QB.     Then last year,  Pep's interceptions went way up, so I wasn't happy.      That said,   some of that is on Luck trying to make big plays when there are check downs to take advantage of.    I don't know why Luck doesn't do that more often?     Drives me crazy.

 

And no running game (13/14) and a poor OL (every year of Luck)  is beyond frustrating for everyone here....    me included!

 

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything happens,  if we lay another egg on Monday night football.      We have a shot week before facing Denver,  with the best defense in the NFL.      Yikes!    That won't be pretty!   

 

And then, after Denver,  comes the Bye........     will Irsay pull the trigger if we're sitting there 3-6 or 4-5?         3-6, I think he does.    4-5,  I'm not as sure........

Agreed.

 

While I am not a big fan of Pagano, I think it would be wrong to assume he is the problem and needs to be fired. I think he deserves a chance with more control over the team. He should be able to pick his staff, and have  complete  autonomy over the starting lineup. Irsay isn't stupid. Hes actually one of the better owners in the league. I think he realizes this, and I dont think he would fire Pagano without letting him have a little bit more control over this team (mainly coaching, but also starting lineups, and having a GM that works with him better in personnel decisions).

 

I have a strong hunch (and when I say hunch I mean I don't have much to back it up) that Grigson has not worked well with Pagano to target the types of players he wants or fill positions of need the way he wants. Again, this is just a hunch, but I get the feeling the two have had some major disagreements over personnel. I think its only fair Pagano has his chance to do things the way he wants to try and save his job. I think at first, Pagano was a new head coach, and they didnt want to completely take off the training wheels. That may have been a good idea for a time, but after a while it was sink or swim, and they kept the training wheels on, and it worked just as well as throwing a drowning individual training wheels as a flotation device, instead of a life preserver. 

 

In the end, I really don't believe Pagano is the guy that is going to help the Colts build a dynasty here. I do, however, have have my doubts as to how well the front office has went about working with him, and I think its only fair he is given all the tools possible at his disposal  to help him save his job. 

 

If we don't allow him the leeway to do what he wants at what very well could be the end of his tenure, then there is a good chance we scare off a lot of promising coaching prospects that wont want to deal with Grigson and his attitude. I think you're right. I think if we are to allow Pagano a fair chance to compete and show us what he's got, then it starts by firing Pep. Pagano puts his buddy Chud in, and we see what Pagano is made of. 

 

What is your opinion about Grigsons supposed tyranny and lack of cooperation with the coaches, especially when it comes to future potential hires?

 

Do you think it is mostly fabricated, or there is some truth to that? If you do believe some of it, how do you think it'll affect the possible coaching search, and what candidates do you possibly want/have heard others want that might not even consider it due to the possible dysfunction that has been mentioned during Pagano's stay here in Indy?

[SteelCityColt]

Well, I must admit that she's very astute concerning the NFL and the Colts coming from a staunchly entrenched family of fans. I'm afraid if Pep doesn't correct this, it's not going to be good. That's a given. I certainly hope he/we can right the ship before it sinks. Stopping the penalties and turnovers would go a long way. That would at least suture the wound. To heal it, antibiotics of much superior play calling and changing the bandages often of sets & formations along with execution might save the season.

 

Is she available to interview?

 

Surely child labour laws don't apply to being a a coordinator in the NFL?

[NewColtsFan]

 

 

What is your opinion about Grigsons supposed tyranny and lack of cooperation with the coaches, especially when it comes to future potential hires?

 

Do you think it is mostly fabricated, or there is some truth to that? If you do believe some of it, how do you think it'll affect the possible coaching search, and what candidates do you possibly want/have heard others want that might not even consider it due to the possible dysfunction that has been mentioned during Pagano's stay here in Indy?

 

B.....

 

You ask good and fair questions,   but today, Nov. 1,  I'm not sure I've got good answers for you.

 

As for Grigson,  who I have liked, backed and supported since the day I arrived,   none of us heard anything about a strained relationship with Pagano until this year.    So, it's hard to know how long this dates back?     This all could have come to the surface based on the 1-year contract offer we extended this past off-season.    That may have been what set things off?      Hard to know?

 

I think there is some truth to it,  how much I don't know.    But even if there's some truth to it,  I suspect this kind of thing happens in most organizations to one degree or another.     Highly competitive people trying to do their best to win,  and not lose their jobs,   and it's all one big pressure cooker.      

 

Stuff happens.

 

I like Grigson.    But this talk about picking Pagano's assistants is troubling to me.     And settling the line-ups too.    

 

I like Pagano.    On the day he was interviewed,  Grigson wrote a note to himself.....  "Players will run through walls for this guy...."      I love that.    That's the kind of coach I always want to hire.     

 

But I think the franchise has mishandled Pagano and now things have spun wildly out of control and I"m not sure if this season can be saved:   Meaning,  yes, we'll win the division,  but I don't like our chances in the post-season and that's what Irsay cares about.    While I like Pagano,  he may not be the right coach for the team anymore.

 

If Pagano goes this off-season,  who replaces him is a mystery at this point.     If it's Grigson doing the hiring,  then it may be another assistant who will be thrilled just to get the job and will take it with all the conditions that Grigson will insist upon.     Which sucks.

 

It's hard to see Grigson hiring a big name HC with long track record.   Whether it's Gruden or Cowher or someone else like that,  those people might want a GM who they know and like and trust.

 

But if Irsay fires Grigson too,  then all bets are off.    Anything could happen at that point.

 

For the next two months,  we're all in the dark.    Just reaching the playoffs isn't going to cut it.    

 

I'm sorry I don't have better answers for you.      Hey,  I'm the nut who thinks if we don't win Monday night vs. Carolina and the following week vs. Denver,  then at 3-6,  I can see Irsay firing people.      Pagano?      Pep?       It won't be Grigson,  not in season.      Just have to believe that with a bye week after Denver,  something is going to happen if we're 3-6.

 

One of the strangest seasons I've ever seen......       Go figure....

[krunk]

It's unclear what changes would happen at the bye week, but Pagano is the obvious answer to fire mid-season.  La Canfora, however, mentions another coach in addition to Pagano who's job is in trouble: offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton.

"

Offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton is under duress as well, with Luck's struggles at the core of the team's crisis, and a change of coordinators is under consideration as well, sources said, with associate head coach Rob Chudzinski -- who was Pagano's preference as offensive coordinator all along -- and long-time Colts staffer Clyde Christensen likely replacements (given Pagano's tenuous position, Christensen would likely hold more attraction to the owner in this instance)."

So, to sum it all up, no one is safe within the Colts' organization right now.  The status of general manager Ryan Grigson, head coach Chuck Pagano, and offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton with the Colts are all in doubt, and it's very possible that if the Colts are 3-6 at the bye week that changes could be made at that point, beginning a house-cleaning process.

 

What is interesting is the question of what those changes would be.  As I already mentioned, firing Pagano would be the easy and logical choice that most would choose, but how much would that really help things?  Unless Andrew Luck magically turned things around, whoever replaces Pagano wouldn't really be able to have a ton of success.  That's why the part about La Canfora mentioning Pep Hamilton's future is especially interesting, considering the fact that he's the one responsible for the offense.  That could give the best hope of an offensive spark, and it sounds like either Rob Chudzinski or Clyde Christensen (both of whom have been offensive coordinators at the NFL level before) would be the replacement if the move happened mid-season.

Ultimately, here are a few big takeaways from Jason La Canfora's report.  Firstly, it's another report that suggests that coaching changes could be coming at the bye week, and it's another report suggesting that Jim Irsay could clean house by the end of the year if the Colts don't turn it around.  Secondly, if the Colts do fire Pagano mid-season, this report would seem to hint that Pep Hamilton might not be chosen as the interim head coach since he too is in danger of losing his job. 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/11/1/9653738/report-jim-irsay-considering-making-coaching-changes-at-bye-week-colts-chuck-pagano-pep-hamilton

[krunk]

If this happens hopefully they don't choose Clyde.  I'd be cool if they kept Pagano and went with Chud as the coordinator.

[John Waylon]

Pep be like

 

[Jason_]

 

If chuck is actually sticking up for and endorsing Pep then it's time for him to go also. I've been sticking up for chuck saying he needs to be able to run his own team without interference from Grigson. But if he do t see the problems then he is part of it. Dueces!

 

 

It's called Coach-speak.  Pagano isn't going to criticize Pep to the media no matter what he really thinks.  

[will426]

I agree with Phillip Dorsett and TY Hilton there both shorter WR so they struggle against physical corners we need a more physical receiver that can physically push around a corner

nah I wouldn't say physical corners is what Hilton struggles with..because talib and browner are as physical as you can get. His problem is corners that have the speed to keep up with him excluding Revis. harris off the Broncos, Peterson off the cards, Gillmore off the bills..butler off the patriots (safety help tho) these are all people who have kept Hilton in check because they have good coverage and they can flat out run stride for stride and he can't lose them. REVIS is the only one without lightning speed to shut Hilton down talib Sherman browner the very physical corners have been burned badly by him.

[will426]

By no means am I disregarding lucks turnovers but the playcalling his atrocious. It lacks creativity and fans at home can telegraph what kind of plays the colts are going to run. Execution is a factor in our losses but 90% of the plays are horrible. Peps called rollouts, split back formations, formations in which he moves the line to protect the qb in lucks absence. Since Andrew has come back has anyone seen any of those playcalls? And idk how many times I call it per game in which we suck first 3 qtrs then with 8 MINUTES LEFT IN THE GAME WE DECIDE TO GO HURRY UP AND SWITCH THE PLAYCALLING. Then after we get within winning the basic playcalling comes right back out or for instance luck has a turnover. We can see that luck is confused so why doesn't the coach or playcaller dumb it down for him & help him get back to his fundementals?? Idk if you guys noticed during the game luck was great passing the ball whenever he RAN OUT OF THE POCKET so why the hell are we keeping him in there?! Andddd yes this is another."Fire Pep" rant because well uh I want him fired

[JColts72]

We are such fools with the actual plays

[CoachLite]

Years of poor coaching has allowed Andrew Luck to perfect his flawed techniques. I wonder how long it will take a "real" coach to de-program Luck? Ever?

 

IMO, we have waited too long, and bad coaching has permanently ruined a potentially great quarterback.

[zibby43]

Andrew Luck did not forget how to be a good QB overnight.

 

Even without seeing the all-22 tape, it is obvious that our receivers/tight ends are not getting enough separation.

 

When they're not getting separation, the route combinations are so poorly designed that our WRs are clustered together in areas where there are a plethora of CBs, Safeties, and LBs. 

 

Luck is constantly faced with situations where he has to fit the ball into coverage.  While elite QBs can sometimes hit those incredibly difficult throws, no elite QB can do so every time.

 

The offense becomes way too vertically oriented at times, but that's another discussion in and of itself.

 

Are the receivers the problem?  Nope.  The route concepts/combinations in this offense leave me absolutely baffled at times.

 

Certain "staple" routes are completely ignored.  Pep will try 1 screen and if it doesn't work, he quits going to it.

 

There are virtually no designed roll-out passes for Luck.  There aren't enough crossing routes (including shallow crosses), quick ins, quick outs, WR screens, RB screens.

 

Does anyone else notice how Ted Ginn Jr. (not an elite WR - at all; although he has good speed) was wide open on several occasions (thanks to single coverage)?

 

Greg Olsen was also left completely by himself on multiple occasions.  And Newton was put in a position where he could hit those plays because the plays/routes were well designed.

 

This offense, as currently designed, gives Luck almost no "layups." 
 

If the Colts can get a great offensive mind at the helm, I have no doubt that Luck will be able to turn his game around.  This offense needs a major overhaul.

 

The only personnel problem, with respect to the offense, is that there aren't enough quality OL.

 

With the right coordinator, the Colts offense has plenty of weapons at the RB/WR/TE positions.

[TKnight24]

Sean Payton for HC

But on that note. The pick Luck threw to Tillman on the 2nd drive of the game. Allen was like 3 feet in front of Hilton. Your players aren't supposed to be that close to each other

[P-Money]

Sean Payton for HC

But on that note. The pick Luck threw to Tillman on the 2nd drive of the game. Allen was like 3 feet in front of Hilton. Your players aren't supposed to be that close to each other

Exactly, they were so close I wasn't even sure if who was supposed to catch it. I'm guessing Allen and Luck over threw him like he's been doing all year with the high balls

[P-Money]

Years of poor coaching has allowed Andrew Luck to perfect his flawed techniques. I wonder how long it will take a "real" coach to de-program Luck? Ever?

 

IMO, we have waited too long, and bad coaching has permanently ruined a potentially great quarterback.

Lucks not ruined, not yet anyways. When he's turned loose he excels but then Pep reels him back in with horrible play calling.

[zibby43]

Sean Payton for HC

But on that note. The pick Luck threw to Tillman on the 2nd drive of the game. Allen was like 3 feet in front of Hilton. Your players aren't supposed to be that close to each other

 

That's an outstanding example you provided.  You're 100% correct.  It's amazing how often scenarios like that happen. 

 

And Pep seems to always play right into the defense's hand when it comes to passing plays.  If it's zone, we'll run the worst zone-beating routes/conepts possible.  If it's man, we won't take advantage of match ups at all (sometimes we'll just let our 2 WRs get quadruple covered while our TEs stay to block). 

 

Saw T.Y. Hilton triple-teamed at one point.  But, because of that play's design, somehow, no one else was open.

 

I mean, some of this stuff I couldn't even make up if I tried.

 

And I honestly wouldn't mind Payton at all.  I'd like to see Chud get a crack at OC though.

 

Exactly, they were so close I wasn't even sure if who was supposed to catch it. I'm guessing Allen and Luck over threw him like he's been doing all year with the high balls

 

Luck has 3 things going against him right now:

 

1) When you don't know if your line is going to hold up, you either A) rush your decision-making, B) fail to go through progressions, or C) pre-select a WR/target (because you don't believe you'll have time to let the long-developing play develop)

 

2) When your receivers can't get open/can't get enough separation for a safe throw, you 1) become indecisive; 2) become impatient; 3) are forced to throw the ball into perilously tight windows

 

Problem 1 is a product of the mediocre line.  The line played very well at times on Monday night.  However, the line is still looking for some consistency.

 

The line also did a better job of avoiding penalties.  Only 1 holding penalty called, if I recall correctly?  

 

Problem 2 stems from the fact that Pep is not qualified to be a NFL OC yet.

 

He may be a fine assistant, but the OC role is too big for him to handle.  He gets out-schemed way too easily.  And he continues to make things way too hard for his QB.

[PeterBowman]

This is what I thought last night too.....how many times would a bootleg roll out just kill the run blitzes Carolina was doing.

Also did the Colts do any play action? They ran the ball well last night but never seemed to take advantage of it.

[JColts72]

Must be the playcalling

[hawkeyes]

Once they changed play calling - put Grif in both he and Johnson started getting open and TY was getting open against their best db, but Andrew was under throwing him.

 

IMO PEP should have been fired at halftime - make a statement!  Get him out of here NOW!

 

Clearly this offense functions better with tempo - WHY do they not stick with that?   FIRE PEP! 

[lollygagger8]

Pep is so bad at calling offense, he makes the defense bad. 

 

 

I literally have no idea what he's doing in the NFL. 

That dummy ran it 7 or 8 times in a row and NEVER went to play action. I was literally screaming at the TV.