On the Hail Mary

[will426]

Davis got beat the whole second half by Hopkins. The secondary was not good out side of Mike Adams who always seems to be in the right spot at the right time to get INTs.

second half he wasn't on Hopkins the entire half he played a couple snaps against him he gave up one long one in man coverage where he was jogging and playing off..and gave another up in zone and then allowed that strong td while also in zone.. toler gave up 85% of Hopkins catches

[will426]

Don't be alarmed. Hopkins is the best WR in the league IMO.

He's at least top 5.

His routes are sexy.

Hopkins is nice but when he was being pressed by vontae he wasn't getting open but then vontae started playing off 10 yards..it shows on that push off Hopkins had when he has a man in his face he struggles.,toler even had solid coverage when he pressed him but then he went back to playing off coverage and letting him just run

[BigQandTheManiac]

Your player evaluation is TRASH!

And BTW, if you think Toler is the opposite of trash, then YOUR player evaluation is TRASH.

[GoColts8818]

second half he wasn't on Hopkins the entire half he played a couple snaps against him he gave up one long one in man coverage where he was jogging and playing off..and gave another up in zone and then allowed that strong td while also in zone.. toler gave up 85% of Hopkins catches

he played the bulk of the second half on Hopkins. When he wasn't he got burned bad on the second TD pass. Again, until the end and outside of Adams no one played well in the secondary.

[throwing BBZ]

Could we not have put in our tallest receivers as end zone defenders. for what was obviously going to be a jump ball...

 

 Na!

[Jason_]

And BTW, if you think Toler is the opposite of trash, then YOUR player evaluation is TRASH.

Toler is not trash. Not even close. Go meltdown somewhere else.

[chrisfarley]

After that nonsense and that way overblown coverage when the texans scored the secondary would've been running 30 laps around the field the next day if I was the coach that can't be tolerated in this game

Pagano just told them all to "keep chopping wood.  Something good will come from this".

[aaron11]

 Na!

why not put AJ in the end zone to defend a hail mary? 

[ricker182]

why not put AJ in the end zone to defend a hail mary?

He might fall getting back there.

[Tsarquise]

Pagano just told them all to "keep chopping wood. Something good will come from this".

What is he supposed to say?

[ricker182]

Toler is not trash. Not even close. Go meltdown somewhere else.

He's not the best but he isn't trash. Not everybody on your team can be the best at their position.

The NFL doesn't allow that.

[ColtJ82]

It's actually not a bad signing at all. Toler is good to allow some completions every game but he plays opposite of Vontae Davis who QBs try and avoid. Have you forgotten Cassius Vaughn already? Toler does well enough for our man system. We could do MUCH worse.

I don't know how people expect every player to be a pro bowler, sheesh.

I agree with you on this. Toler is a good #2 CB when healthy. None of us can truly understand how difficult man coverage must be in the NFL. He holds his own most of the time.

[peytonmanning18]

Pagano just told them all to "keep chopping wood. Something good will come from this".

Then he said "you guys have grit"

[aaron11]

He might fall getting back there.

i mean have him line up in the end zone.  you dont have to defend the whole field on a hail mary

 

apparently the coaches dont like the idea either but sometimes WRs do this.

[chrisfarley]

What is he supposed to say?

Do better

[chrisfarley]

Then he said "you guys have grit"

followed by "it takes heart to go up against Strong, you never quit, you jumped up as high as a cloud, but the mountain was too steep. Your courage was impeccable, your drive immeasurable."

[Arby0359]

Re watching  the play . It does look like toler is trying to keep everyone away from the jump ball for some odd reason . he wasn't even facing the incoming ball he looked like he was trying to block his own players from it (obviously he wouldn't do that )...  I think Moncrief or Johnson could have stopped the catch..

[Narcosys]

Maybe the coaches should have said something to Greg Toler,like "Don't run into the other DBs pushing them out of the way!!!" It's kinda difficult to get in front of Strong when your own teammate is running into you...smh

Toler is trash. Always has been.

[Jason_]

Toler is trash. Always has been.

 

that is false and beyond ignorant.

[RockThatBlue]

Re watching the play . It does look like toler is trying to keep everyone away from the jump ball for some odd reason . he wasn't even facing the incoming ball he looked like he was trying to block his own players from it (obviously he wouldn't do that )... I think Moncrief or Johnson could have stopped the catch..

Toler must have had Strong on his fantasy team

[Surge89]

I would think with the injuries is why zone might be called.

 

But we are getting healthy again...  that was my point...  It is understandable for the first 2 games but now we have 2 legitimate starting corners and healthy safeties...

[Surge89]

-- Toler has been hurt.

 

-- Smith has been hurt.

 

-- Butler has been hurt.

 

-- Davis has been hurt.

 

-- Brown has been hurt.

 

That's FIVE corners who have missed time...   some have missed lots of time. 

 

This is why we went away from man-to-man.      Not because we WANT to.    But because we HAD to.

 

And yes,   this means that Tom Brady will likely carve us up for more than 400 yards.

 

...Yes of course I know why we have done so in the first games of the season. But now we have 2 healthy corners and healthy safeties.  Brady shouldn't carve us for 400 if we are healthy. 

[bababooey]

why not put AJ in the end zone to defend a hail mary?

He might actually face the ball and get footing in front of the defender, we wouldn't want to make it too easy on ourselves do we?

[lollygagger8]

I've gotten flamed for saying Toler is garbage for years, but the guy was BACKWARDS on the hail mary and blocked 4 Colts defenders. 

[NewColtsFan]

...Yes of course I know why we have done so in the first games of the season. But now we have 2 healthy corners and healthy safeties.  Brady shouldn't carve us for 400 if we are healthy. 

 

Did you see how Davis and Toler looked last Thursday?

 

Terrible.

 

Our corners are going to have to be dramatically better and our pass rush is going to have to be 10 times better in order to slow down Brady.

 

Not impossible,   but not very likely either.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

It was a bad play luckily we came out and grabbed the momentum again quickly in the 2nd half and won. Fix it going forward and be glad it didn't factor into the game as a lose! Take that play away it was the best game we have played all year!

[Narcosys]

that is false and beyond ignorant.

Really? Has he even played a full season for us? How often does he get beat deep or lose his receive? Answer: quite often.

And now, he takes it 4 other defenders by himself. A great and uproarious applause is needed to recognize his amazing skill.

[Jason_]

Really? Has he even played a full season for us? How often does he get beat deep or lose his receive? Answer: quite often.

And now, he takes it 4 other defenders by himself. A great and uproarious applause is needed to recognize his amazing skill.

Feel better now, champ?

[BigQandTheManiac]

Really? Has he even played a full season for us? How often does he get beat deep or lose his receive? Answer: quite often.

And now, he takes it 4 other defenders by himself. A great and uproarious applause is needed to recognize his amazing skill.

Jason is delusional. Save your breath, I did.

[Dustin]

not as bad of a game as Davis had.

Lolwut

[Jason_]

Jason is delusional. Save your breath, I did.

 

so anyone who thinks that Toler is anything other than complete trash is delusional? 

[Surge89]

Did you see how Davis and Toler looked last Thursday?

 

Terrible.

 

Our corners are going to have to be dramatically better and our pass rush is going to have to be 10 times better in order to slow down Brady.

 

Not impossible,   but not very likely either.

 

But that is my point...  Our corners are being played out of scheme.  Both they and the pass rush would be better away from zone which is concerning as to why we didn't put them back in their place so they can get reps and break it in. 

 

If we are heading into the Patriots game planning on playing zone we are doomed before the game starts.  If we weren't then it begs to question why not get the reps in against the Texans and make sure everyone is where they should be?  We played predominantly zone for about 70% of our defensive snaps...  And its concerning. 

[runthepost]

so anyone who thinks that Toler is anything other than complete trash is delusional?

He is not starter caliber

[TonyBungee]

I watched the play a few times, & the only feasible explanation is that Toler had Jalen Strong on his fantasy team.

[Narcosys]

Feel better now, champ?

Excellent point that I will take into consideration from a person who fails to support any trolling statements he makes.

[Jason_]

Excellent point that I will take into consideration from a person who fails to support any trolling statements he makes.

If you want to actually have a discussion, we can absolutely do that. However, there is very little in your posts that give me any confidence that you're capable of having an actual adult discussion. You seem more interested in blasting hyperbole and then mocking anyone who doesn't fully agree with you.

So, want to have an actual discussion? Great..grow up and let's have one. Otherwise I guess we can stick with the status quo:

You: he's trash

Someone else: no, he's not

You: oh well obviously he's the greatest player in the world. Let's all bow at the amazing prowess of his talent

I'm fine either way to be honest. I'm adaptable. I can have conversations at the adult level...or the elementary. ;)

[BigQandTheManiac]

so anyone who thinks that Toler is anything other than complete trash is delusional? 

Honestly, Yes. If he's not getting penalized for P.I. or illegal contact down the field, he's constantly getting brunt for big plays or giving up big plays. OR he's injured sitting out 4-5 games. He's just too frustrating to have on the team. And for us to think our secondary should be better with him back on the field just shows how bad our corners really are, outside of Davis.

[indyspeed13]

But that is my point...  Our corners are being played out of scheme.  Both they and the pass rush would be better away from zone which is concerning as to why we didn't put them back in their place so they can get reps and break it in. 

 

If we are heading into the Patriots game planning on playing zone we are doomed before the game starts.  If we weren't then it begs to question why not get the reps in against the Texans and make sure everyone is where they should be?  We played predominantly zone for about 70% of our defensive snaps...  And its concerning. 

yes I was hoping manusky would have them in a little more press Thursday. if he has them in zone this sunday I will be very surprised

[indyspeed13]

I don't consider toler to be great or anything BUT... he does make plays and he can usually stick a no2 receiver fairly well. he does get burnt sometimes but hes better than any other no2 option for us, period.

[dudeski]

If you want to actually have a discussion, we can absolutely do that. However, there is very little in your posts that give me any confidence that you're capable of having an actual adult discussion. You seem more interested in blasting hyperbole and then mocking anyone who doesn't fully agree with you.

So, want to have an actual discussion? Great..grow up and let's have one. Otherwise I guess we can stick with the status quo:

You: he's trash

Someone else: no, he's not

You: oh well obviously he's the greatest player in the world. Let's all bow at the amazing prowess of his talent

I'm fine either way to be honest. I'm adaptable. I can have conversations at the adult level...or the elementary. ;)

seems to me

Most people judge corners like this.

1). Gives up a pass - bad game

2). Gives up 2 passes - terrible

3). Gives up more than 2 passes - dumpster fire and needs to be cut