Pags comment (merge)

[Smash Mouth]

Here's a comment from the article, which when the play occurred had me fuming with disdain toward Pep Hamilton ...

"The offensive play calling. I know that’s always the default complaint when a team’s offense goes sideways, but I’m still trying to figure out how the Colts had a second and two at the Jets’ 11, then try two passes, the first of the two intended for offensive tackle Joe Reitz. Too…cute. And unspeakably bizarre."

When you have so many alleged weapons, Pep is wasting time trying a trick play to an offensive lineman?

I remain very unimpressed with Pep into his 3rd year as OC now.

My other major complaint is this "pitch count" baloney regarding Gore. I find it sadly laughable that they are using Gore as a rotational running back. An absolutely asinine decision.

My other huge complaints fall on Grigson ... failing to do what is necessary to draft highly regarded interior OL prospects over the past three drafts. Also, it still irks me that Reggie Wayne was not given the deserved respect of giving him his one year deal this past offseason. I mean, though I was a fan of the Johnson acquisition, I am seeing nothing from him so far that Reggie didn't give us. There is value in showing loyalty to an all-time Colt like Reggie, who did this franchise a tremendous solid in the loyalty he showed when unexpectedly signing with the Colts when all was a mess. I guess Irsay should get some heat for this lack of loyalty as well.

I'm ok with frogs letting Reggie go.  I saw him play in NE, he had nothing left physically.  I still think John son has some strength and size that can be utilized.  The problem I have is that he was brought in to be the #2 but he's at best a #3.  That's why the Texans let him walk.  Grigson keeps signing WRs past their prime and expecting them to be TY's side-kick.  After 3 years we now know Grigson's limitations as a GM.  He tries so hard to find the diamond in the rough but some times being conventional is ok.  Drafting for need is ok.  Drafting a highly regarded OL is ok.  Drafting a big rangy WR is ok.

 

As for Pep, he's toast.  Its  matter of figuring out how to right the ship - does he go, does he stay?  If he goes, can Chud run the offense?  If he stays, can Pagano step in and say build a game plan the moves the chains and keeps the offense on schedule.  Throw to the TEs and RBs, throw short passes so defense can hit the QB?  Can you do that Pep?

[DougDew]

I don't think Pags will be a scapegoat for Griggs, Pags body of work will speak for itself and its not good solid coaching and leadership. Griggs may as well pay for not solving the online issues during his time also but of the group not proving enough of worth, it's Pep the worst, then Pags then Manusky and Griggs being the least of the troubles. I suspect we will see a turnover in coaching for next season and it won't surprise me to see Pep get whacked first if this offense continues to throw deep pass after deep pass against the constant blitz from every team.

IF Pags is upset with Grigs, it is probably more for hiring/keeping Pep rather than the roster moves or draft picks...you can't hit on every roster move. Pags complimented the D, and it was Grigs that drafted Parry and Andersen and signed Langford, so how can Chuck complain that much? Grigs also got Irving and Moore and traded for Vontae. Werner looks like a bust..and I would think that Pags was on board with the TRich trade...so a few failed moves can't make a coach too upset. It happens

The one Constant in the past few years is Pep and the oline, and an inability to call a game that helps protect Luck.

[CoachLite]

Grigson is starting to remind me of Matt Millen. I really liked Matt Millen. He's smart and knows football, but he was a terrible GM (maybe one of the worst). Having said that, the Colt's coaching is abysmal and I can't tell from here where the major source of the problem lies. That means it is probably ALL of them are a contributing part of the faulty system - GM and coaches alike. But, I worry that the Colts front office will just replace one broken system with another. By the time they finally get it fixed, Andrew Luck will be ready to retire - a quarterback with mediocre stats - and no chance for the HoF.

[Surge89]

But you have a draft for need philosophy, and Grigson has a draft the best player still on the board philosophy. One potentially is better short term, but the other better long term. GM's tend to look long term.

Grigson is the one who stated he wants to win now lol... he has dipped in FA heavily and is starting 2 rookies. I'm not having a short term outlook Grigson is lol. I'm all for drafting BPA but in all honesty Dorsett was not the best player available for us. As BPA has to be relative to your team. We need a future ILB we need a future insurance policy for Toler, we needed offensive insurance at Tackle. All of those are not short term needs...

[SDakColts]

If it is really a shot at Grigs, then I am very disappointed in Pagano... he is acting like a 3 year old.  Irsay needs to sit them both down and say this nonsense stops here and if it doesn't, get rid of them both.  Let's face it, not likely colts are going anywhere this year, they will win the division and be done unless there is a Festavis Miracle.    Colts are looking like the 49ers from last year.  This is sad and pathetic at the same time.  Pagano is not innocent, team is still unprepared, lack focus and discipline.  Penalties, fumbles, etc.   

It is true about Pagano not being innocent. I believe like you said the lack of discipline with penalties and turnovers lies with him. However, if Pagano is spending more time with the defense like reports have said I believe the defense played just fine yesterday especially with the lack of bodies. The offense is where the problems lie and things need to be corrected quickly. I believe the last two losses are a product of an unprepared offense, terrible playcalling, and lack of execution. Now after actually watching to presser a few times I think it is a subtle shot at Grigs but I also think that it is a partial shot at Luck. All I know is Pagano was * last night and finally I saw some fire. Hopefully the fire can be channeled to help us fix this season.

[CanuckColt]

If Irsay fires Pagano and keeps Pep then he has done nothing...maybe worse than nothing.

If Irsay fires Pep then he has done something positive.

[BleedBlu8792]

Yeah, the pocket is collapsing and Luck is holding the ball for 4 or 5 seconds, it is a recipe for disaster. To be honest, I felt that the OL was not as bad as it was made out to be. Luck holding the ball too long and the OC not calling plays for enough underneath options (goes hand in hand) made the OL look worse than it was.

 

Just like Peyton made the OL look better than it was by releasing the ball within 3 seconds, Luck can tend to do the opposite, IMO.

 

He's getting even worse at staring receivers down as well. He's still "waiting" for someone to get open, as opposed to throwing them open. He's not reacting fast enough and right as he see's that window open it's too late. I love all of the OL hate, but it's on Luck. He's not recognizing the open man nor is he utilizing the underneath routes. If teams are going to continue to load the box, screens and dump-off's have to be the focus of getting the defense to start pulling back. These intermediate/deep routes, with 5 or 6 guys coming, along with Luck holding on to the ball, are going to make the OL look bad.  

[James]

I think this poster says it best:

"Damn Pagano is acting like he already knows he's getting fired. "The O-like has always been bad" is not how you answer that question. I mean the Colts were the worst team in the NFL before Luck was drafted, show a little respect for the guy who basically turned a dumpster fire into a trash can that's nice enough for Rex Ryan to eat from."

[csmopar]

Al I know is that if I'm Irsay, them coaches are getting the full Metal jacket treatment all day today....

[The Fish]

Pagano is going to be the fall guy for this. He's not holding his end of the bargain up, but I'm far more annoyed with Grigson. A very under the radar, yet as telling as the Trent trade tid bit was the A.Q Shipley situation. The o-line was more consistent with him at the center than any other grouping we've had and we all knew it, yet Grigson decided that his arms were an inch to short or something. It's at the point were there's no shortage of faults though.

[will426]

I'm ok with frogs letting Reggie go. I saw him play in NE, he had nothing left physically. I still think John son has some strength and size that can be utilized. The problem I have is that he was brought in to be the #2 but he's at best a #3. That's why the Texans let him walk. Grigson keeps signing WRs past their prime and expecting them to be TY's side-kick. After 3 years we now know Grigson's limitations as a GM. He tries so hard to find the diamond in the rough but some times being conventional is ok. Drafting for need is ok. Drafting a highly regarded OL is ok. Drafting a big rangy WR is ok.

As for Pep, he's toast. Its matter of figuring out how to right the ship - does he go, does he stay? If he goes, can Chud run the offense? If he stays, can Pagano step in and say build a game plan the moves the chains and keeps the offense on schedule. Throw to the TEs and RBs, throw short passes so defense can hit the QB? Can you do that Pep?

Johnson isn't past his prime he's being used badly and luck is throwing him high as balls that even he's tipping into the air just like he did with fleener last year

[BProland85]

Pep's tight ends caught 98 passes last year. 51 for Fleeners, 29 for Allen (and he was hurt) and 18 for Doyle.

Pep came from Stanford where using the tight end is job one.

But something has gone sideways this year and we're barely throwing to them at all this year.

It's a complete mystery to me. I don't know what is going on in Pep's mind.....?

On paper this offense is much better than last year. But for some reason pep Hamilton hasn't evolved his play calling and the colts offense is now predictable.

[Smash Mouth]

Johnson isn't past his prime he's being used badly and luck is throwing him high as balls that even he's tipping into the air just like he did with fleener last year and everyone's playing tight coverage because our play calling is always downfield

I agree with your assessment of the overall problem.  It impacts Johnson more because (in my opinion) he's past his prime.  In his prime he was getting separation no matter who was on him.  But Johnson can still be productive in the right scheme

[azcolt]

There have been many nasty surprises through these two games, but none more than Pagano not so subtly ripping Luck. The feel good story of Chuck beating cancer three years ago had a long shelf life. I think that shelf life has just about expired. Luck did look like a deer in the headlights. I would expect that from happy feet qb's like PM after a few too many shots, but that's not Luck, who plays qb with a linebacker mentality. But even Muhammad Ali eventually couldn't take a punch.

So maybe Chuck ought to look in the mirror instead of cracking that Luck should be used to being pounded after 3 plus years of it. Chuck seems like a nice guy who his players like, but I never could understand what else he brings to the table and now the nice guy act seems to be just that.

[Everyone]

I took that as a dig at Grigson not Luck.

[RockThatBlue]

I honestly felt like that was more of a shot at Grigson. Kind of like "He should be used to being pounded by now since he once again has no protection" but maybe I'm wrong but that's how I took it.

[JColts72]

On paper this offense is much better than last year. But for some reason pep Hamilton hasn't evolved his play calling and the colts offense is now predictable.

On paper means squat, this team has no fire and easily gets rolled over once they get pushed over by every other team physical play. The Titan game is no auto win either Colt fans. Their D s young and fast.

[lennymoore24]

Your GM essentially misses 2 out of 3 first round picks.

Your GM tries to pick your starting lineup

Your GM allegedly hired you offensive coordinator (Pep)

Your GM has a terrible record with pro free agents

Your OC doesn't seem to know how to make an effective game plan.

 

But it is all your fault.  And you are likely going to lose you job.

 

That has to suck.

 

If I were Pagano, I would go down firing.  Fire Pep, put Chud as OC, and roll the dice the way I want it to go.  If I fail, at least I tried.  The way things are going, he is going to get canned and he won't even have caused most of it.

[Patagonia Chris]

Grigson has squandered three draft picks just through trade. Traded a 1st for Trent Richardson, Traded a 4th to select Montori Hughes (who isn't on the roster), Traded up to select Khaled Holmes. The only trades he has hit on were the Vontae Davis pick and moving up to select TY Hilton. He has blown all of the cap space that the Colts had and forces Chuck to start the likes of Lance Louis on a weekly basis, but it's going to be Pagano who has to bite the bullet.

[will426]

I agree with your assessment of the overall problem. It impacts Johnson more because (in my opinion) he's past his prime. In his prime he was getting separation no matter who was on him. But Johnson can still be productive in the right scheme

one thing I noticed is Andrew lobs balls to our small receivers but throws bullets high to the tall ones

[NewColtsFan]

On paper this offense is much better than last year. But for some reason pep Hamilton hasn't evolved his play calling and the colts offense is now predictable.

 

Yup!    Horribly predictable.    I absolutely HATE that I can sit at home and be pretty accurate in my predictions of whether we're passing or running based on personnel, down and distance.    That shouldn't happen!    I should not be able to do that!

 

But I do.    And that's NOT me patting myself on my back.    That's me complaining that our offense is so badly screwed up that I can do it.     Honestly,  I suspect there are a number of posters who can do it too.

 

And with a well run offense,  you should not be able to.

[Corndog]

Pagano might as well go out firing, if we can get a better GM, who isn't a control freak and can build an o-line, it would be a win.  I don't see Pagano surviving this season, short of doing something incredible like winning the SB, so he might as well take everyone down with him.  

[Toe Toed Sloth]

It's definitely a shot at Grigs.

 

I'm getting slightly tired of the fan perception of "draft O line in round 1! Duh!" 

 

Look at many of the top picks over the past few years regarding O Line. They're not sure things and really most have under performed their draft pedigree. Look at Luke Jockel and Eric Fisher. Jockel is still horrid and Eric has taken a very long time to develop and he's far from being a top tier guy. As bad as many of you think we have it, we have a middle of line O Line. It's not terrible. This game was lost by pep and Luck IMO. Luck was responsible for 4 turnovers! 4! No one else's fault. No terrible tipped passes. Did he get hit? Yes. What QB doesn't at 3+ seconds in the NFL especially when facing a blitz?

 

I don't understand the Grigs hate. 

[Superman]

Your GM essentially misses 2 out of 3 first round picks.

Your GM tries to pick your starting lineup

Your GM allegedly hired you offensive coordinator (Pep)

Your GM has a terrible record with pro free agents

Your OC doesn't seem to know how to make an effective game plan.

 

But it is all your fault.  And you are likely going to lose you job.

 

That has to suck.

 

If I were Pagano, I would go down firing.  Fire Pep, put Chud as OC, and roll the dice the way I want it to go.  If I fail, at least I tried.  The way things are going, he is going to get canned and he won't even have caused most of it.

 

Your thread was merged here.

[Bluefire4]

That's weird, before the game they did a segment about how Luck was the best (or perhaps among the very best) at handling the blitz in the past 3 years.... you're saying the opposite.  

I heard he was the best at it last year but I think that's in part because we didn't play any defenses like the two we just faced this year.

[Flash7]

I heard he was the best at it last year but I think that's in part because we didn't play any defenses like the two we just faced this year.

The difference is this: Some of the other teams that Luck faced had to blitz to create pressure. Those teams didn't have the secondary that the Bills and Jets have. The Bills and Jets not only have great front 7's, they also have great defensive backs. So essentially they beat up our O-line and our receivers. Game over.

 

Moving forward, if we face the blitz odds are that they will not have the defensive backs that the Bills and Jets have.

 

What really bothers me is that the Jets were bad last year. In the off season, they added Marshall (who we could've pursued). They added Revis (FA acquisition) and Buster Skrine (we could've pursued) and now have one of the best defenses in the league. We went after Cole and Lowery -- no difference makers.

[Bluefire4]

The difference is this: Some of the other teams that Luck faced had to blitz to create pressure. Those teams didn't have the secondary that the Bills and Jets have. The Bills and Jets not only have great front 7's, they also have great defensive backs. So essentially they beat up our O-line and our receivers. Game over.

 

Moving forward, if we face the blitz odds are that they will not have the defensive backs that the Bills and Jets have.

 

What really bothers me is that the Jets were bad last year. In the off season, they added Marshall (who we could've pursued). They added Revis (FA acquisition) and Buster Skrine (we could've pursued) and now have one of the best defenses in the league. We went after Cole and Lowery -- no difference makers.

I agree with the blitz part, but can understand why they didn't get those guys. Skrine is a slot corner which we have in Butler. No way we could have gotten Revis or Cro. And we didn't want to give up a 5th and 10 million dollar contract for Marshall.

[Flash7]

I agree with the blitz part, but can understand why they didn't get those guys. Skrine is a slot corner which we have in Butler. No way we could have gotten Revis or Cro. And we didn't want to give up a 5th and 10 million dollar contract for Marshall.

I am not saying that we necessarily had to go after those guys (Marshall, Revis, Cromartie etc...). I do think we should've gone after Skrine. He is much better than Butler.

 

My overall point is: Sure we saved money going after guys like Cole and Lowery, but we do not get much from them. They are not difference makers. We saw last year that difference makers (Revis and Browner) can get you over the hump and into a Super Bowl. It's worth paying for if the situation is right.

[Bluefire4]

Some Colts reporters have said that the comment about Luck and the offensive line was a subtle shot at Grigson for not improving the line for the past 3 years.. I honestly think we're being too hard on Pagano. He's a defensive guy and he said he'd be more active on that side.. and the defensive has been good. Grigson has to get more blame. The offensive line sucking is his fault. The play calling is Pep's fault not Chucks. The only thing he's doing wrong in my opinion is not keeping the team disciplined but that is mostly on the players.

[JPFolks]

Pagano shares blame too.  Team looks soft, lack of discipline, (penalties) and unprepared to play.  The Jets and Bills are NOT super bowl contenders (look at how the Patriots played against the Bills).... he is the head coach, not the GM and he knew that when he took the job.  if he wanted all the power of the coach and GM then he shouldn't have taken the job.  both need to DO THEIR JOB and quite acting like 3 year olds.....

I do agree with the premise, as I have said the same thing in terms of penalties.  I played all the way through college starting 8 straight years and never had a single penalty on the O-Line.  Snap Counts, holding, bad blocks on special teams, all of it is lack of discipline. So are turnovers.  What happens with most teams when you fumble?  You are benched.  (I am not suggesting Luck be benched, but anyone else should sit).  Ironically, Gore sat most the night, but not in connection to his goal line fumble.  (and it was NOT a bad exchange lke they said on the broadcast).  But in the end, if you GET bad players what can you do with them? Our interior line is terrible.  You can't coach lack of ability/talent when it is so far off.  Guys can't do what they can't do.  But I do agree that the entire team is soft and undisciplined, so for that reason Pagano is gone no matter what happens short of a Super Bowl win.  But I still tilt the balance of problems towards Pagano.  We should have the best O-Line in the league to go with Luck and then sign lesser WR.  Our highly drafted WR's (and HOF aging FA) did Luck no good yesterday.  Bottom line: The line sucks for 4 straight years, that is 1 persons fault.  Grigson. 

[Superman]

I do agree with the premise, as I have said the same thing in terms of penalties.  I played all the way through college starting 8 straight years and never had a single penalty on the O-Line.  Snap Counts, holding, bad blocks on special teams, all of it is lack of discipline. So are turnovers.  What happens with most teams when you fumble?  You are benched.  (I am not suggesting Luck be benched, but anyone else should sit).  Ironically, Gore sat most the night, but not in connection to his goal line fumble.  (and it was NOT a bad exchange lke they said on the broadcast).  But in the end, if you GET bad players what can you do with them? Our interior line is terrible.  You can't coach lack of ability/talent when it is so far off.  Guys can't do what they can't do.  But I do agree that the entire team is soft and undisciplined, so for that reason Pagano is gone no matter what happens short of a Super Bowl win.  But I still tilt the balance of problems towards Pagano.  We should have the best O-Line in the league to go with Luck and then sign lesser WR.  Our highly drafted WR's (and HOF aging FA) did Luck no good yesterday.  Bottom line: The line sucks for 4 straight years, that is 1 persons fault.  Grigson. 

 

LOL

 

I don't really believe the bolded, but even if I did, it wouldn't matter. You weren't an NFL OL. Penalties are a part of the game, especially when you're playing against the best players in the world. Too many penalties so far, absolutely, but let's not get carried away here.

 

The other thing is that Gore didn't sit 'most of the night.' He played 41 of 64 offensive plays. That's a good number. He had 16 official touches, and a couple of them were wiped out by penalty. That's also a good number, right on pace with his workload last season (266 touches; 16.6/game). 

[Surge89]

There have been many nasty surprises through these two games, but none more than Pagano not so subtly ripping Luck. The feel good story of Chuck beating cancer three years ago had a long shelf life. I think that shelf life has just about expired. Luck did look like a deer in the headlights. I would expect that from happy feet qb's like PM after a few too many shots, but that's not Luck, who plays qb with a linebacker mentality. But even Muhammad Ali eventually couldn't take a punch.

So maybe Chuck ought to look in the mirror instead of cracking that Luck should be used to being pounded after 3 plus years of it. Chuck seems like a nice guy who his players like, but I never could understand what else he brings to the table and now the nice guy act seems to be just that.

 

Lol... This post is quite ridiculous.  First of all Luck deserved every bit of a rub he got from Pagano.  He played bad ball.  2nd the statement was more against Grigson than anything. Pagano while I wasn't a big fan of hiring will definitely be the scapegoat but that doesn't mean it is right.  This has been a failure of the GM interfering with the HC, a failed OC, and an under performing QB.

 

So as you go on about your diatribe of Pagano looking in the mirror and being nothing but acting like a nice guy you might want to face the facts that he literally is completely right.

 

Also your "dig" at Manning is ridiculous as well. Manning never has had happy feet btw.  He is one of the best QB's at having quick set feet in the entire history of the league and Luck will be luck to reach half the QB Manning was for us. The fact you even suggest that Manning would succumb to hits is ridiculous as well, as Manning had a worse Oline then Luck has had his last 5 years in Indy. Maybe you should just not comment if you have little to no clue what you are watching. 

[coltsfanatic89]

I just hope Irsay moves sooner rather than later, and decisively. Clean this house!

[JPFolks]

Whatever. 

[CoachSmok3]

My other major complaint is this "pitch count" baloney regarding Gore. I find it sadly laughable that they are using Gore as a rotational running back. An absolutely asinine decision.

 

i absolutely agree and absolutely canNOT understand this at all...but a lot of people are saying the Colts had listened to too much off season hype and had big heads coming in to this season....

 

it kinda leads credence to this notion when one of the biggest FA pick ups in my memory (solely my opinion*), and a huge "fix" for an even bigger "issue" from several previous seasons (again, my opinion*)....and before week 1 has even started, the staff states the he will be monitored and put on a pitch count to keep him fresh later in the season.

 

unless that means that we planned on just ground and pounding away the last few games...we (fans) and they (personnel and staff) believed the hype and pegged the Colts as "shoe ins" for the playoffs and further...

 

I will simply offer this for perspective....playing hs football at a major school in central indiana...we won the (then) 5A state championship 4 years in a row...that was my 8th-11th grade years..now my 12th grade year, we began the season in the national spotlight, and were assumed to take it all the way for a 5-peat...no questions or doubt....the year before we were undefeated and won the 4th straight....5th year is a cake walk.....for those not familiar with Indy HS football, would you like to know what happened? we lost multiple games during the season and lost, handily, in the sectional round.

 

many athletes/staff/school personnel/parents...all had the blame on the then HC. He stepped down that year and staid with the team as the DC the next season...you know what that '09 class did? won the State Title....

 

Coaching is incredibly important and a cornerstone for success in the game.... but having big heads, believing the hype, and "saving" players and plays for late, is very counter productive. whats worse? the fact that before the fingers are pointed at ones self...every excuse will be given before the realization that humility is needed, and back to work we must go.

 

let gore run! if he breaks down, next man up. When you focus on the future you are blinded to today.....NFL success means 1 game at a time...wen you look a head...you fall behind

[JPFolks]

LOL

 

I don't really believe the bolded, but even if I did, it wouldn't matter. You weren't an NFL OL. Penalties are a part of the game, especially when you're playing against the best players in the world. Too many penalties so far, absolutely, but let's not get carried away here.

 

The other thing is that Gore didn't sit 'most of the night.' He played 41 of 64 offensive plays. That's a good number. He had 16 official touches, and a couple of them were wiped out by penalty. That's also a good number, right on pace with his workload last season (266 touches; 16.6/game). 

Well, it is a fact, one I took a lot of pride in.  And we had a great team in high school who went 47-4 in 4 years right here in Indiana.  And in College we were Nationally ranked my Senior year, so we weren't horrible. Point is we were very well coached and very disciplined.  Had we jumped offsides or had a personal foul, it would have been corrected or we would have been replaced.  I agree Holds, especially when you're protecting the QB in Pro Football is a different issue.  But Football discipline is football discipline.  You don't act like a punk on the field, you don't fight, you know the snap count and who you're supposed to block.  I am speaking from experience.   Do you have more substantial experience to refute what I am saying?  You certainly play the expert here on all topics, so tell me about your personal experience and how it was different than what I am suggesting? Did you have problems with snap counts and was that for reasons other than discipline?  I don't get what you're arguing unless you're simply attacking me or calling me a liar.  I thought that sort of behaviour violated site rules?  Uncool.  

[Jason_]

People also seem to be forgetting that, in 2012, the Colts were one of the least penalized teams in the league. 

 

Colts ranking in the league:

 

Total penalties: 10th fewest

Offensive pre-snap penalties: T-3rd fewest

 

So maybe this has more to do with the large amount of roster turnover and not so much that the coaches aren't preaching these fundamentals.

[CanuckColt]

Your GM essentially misses 2 out of 3 first round picks.

Your GM tries to pick your starting lineup

Your GM allegedly hired you offensive coordinator (Pep)

Your GM has a terrible record with pro free agents

Your OC doesn't seem to know how to make an effective game plan.

 

But it is all your fault.  And you are likely going to lose you job.

 

That has to suck.

 

If I were Pagano, I would go down firing.  Fire Pep, put Chud as OC, and roll the dice the way I want it to go.  If I fail, at least I tried.  The way things are going, he is going to get canned and he won't even have caused most of it.

Yeah, I suppose we should cut Pagano some slack...but he really is average as a HC.

You have a great idea tho...fire Pep and let Chud call the O...he can't be worse than Pep...heck, most unemployed OCs off the street would be better than Pep.

[Superman]

Well, it is a fact, one I took a lot of pride in.  And we had a great team in high school who went 47-4 in 4 years right here in Indiana.  And in College we were Nationally ranked my Senior year, so we weren't horrible. Point is we were very well coached and very disciplined.  Had we jumped offsides or had a personal foul, it would have been corrected or we would have been replaced.  I agree Holds, especially when you're protecting the QB in Pro Football is a different issue.  But Football discipline is football discipline.  You don't act like a punk on the field, you don't fight, you know the snap count and who you're supposed to block.  I am speaking from experience.   Do you have more substantial experience to refute what I am saying?  You certainly play the expert here on all topics, so tell me about your personal experience and how it was different than what I am suggesting? Did you have problems with snap counts and was that for reasons other than discipline?  I don't get what you're arguing unless you're simply attacking me or calling me a liar.  I thought that sort of behaviour violated site rules?  Uncool.  

 

I'm not attacking you. I just don't think what you're saying is true. Any offensive lineman who hasn't been flagged hasn't played enough. So the only way you had all those games of football as a lineman without being penalized is if you were riding the bench.

 

And like I said, it doesn't matter, because it's a different story in the NFL. Yes, unforced procedural penalties are infuriating, but they happen to even the best linemen on the best teams. Every lineman holds, and gets called for holding. These things are a part of the game, particularly when the guy across from you is one of the best in the league.

[GwinnettColt]

Some Colts reporters have said that the comment about Luck and the offensive line was a subtle shot at Grigson for not improving the line for the past 3 years.. I honestly think we're being too hard on Pagano. He's a defensive guy and he said he'd be more active on that side.. and the defensive has been good. Grigson has to get more blame. The offensive line sucking is his fault. The play calling is Pep's fault not Chucks. The only thing he's doing wrong in my opinion is not keeping the team disciplined but that is mostly on the players.

 

I fault Grigson more than Pagano just like you do.   If Pagano goes, Grigson needs to go also.