TY Hilton signs new deal (Mega Merge)

[throwing BBZ]

It's a 5 year extension on top of his current year at $65m.... so really its a 6 year $65m deal... That's like $10.8m a year... Fair for both sides I think

 

 So he won`t get the money he was owed for this season. Interesting! I guess you know all about it.

[SilentHill]

13mm/yr made me cringe, but when i found out it was really around 10-11mm that makes it better.

[theanarchist]

I'm speaking of blocking. Inline run blocking and pass blocking.

I'm not going to argue with you. I think Doyle is great blocker. As all around skills go Allen easily is better. I just think Doyle brings a lot to the table in blocking skills, a lost art in the NFL especially among TE's

[ColtsLegacy]

I'm not going to argue with you. I think Doyle is great blocker. As all around skills go Allen easily is better. I just think Doyle brings a lot to the table in blocking skills, a lost art in the NFL especially among TE's

Doyle is a solid blocker, I like him a lot. But, DA is one of the best blocking TEs in the game.

[theanarchist]

Doyle is a solid blocker, I like him a lot. But, DA is one of the best blocking TEs in the game.

Allen is definitely a top all around TE. I put him up just outside the elite guys. Interestingly enough PFF has Coby Fleener rated in the top 5 "pass blocking" TE's in football which is a real surprise and Im not sure how they compile their stats to back that up.

[ztboiler]

You can only sign the guys that you can sign.  One of the problems we had during the Manning era, and what's now going to seem like the Luck era, is that we're always drafting toward the back quarter of the draft.  Pretty tough to find defensive game changers there.  So that leaves FA, and game changers don't hit free agency, and when they do, you'll be cutting out a check that'd make anyone roll their eyes because how many teams have been crushed by paying a high price FA and then they just turn out to be a bust (or at least not worth the money).  So...you're kind of stuck in a rock and a hard place.  You're going to have to pay a lot to get that player, whether it's draft picks, inflated free agent prices, trades, etc.  That's why I didn't mind that Grigs tried with Bjoern Werner.  I didn't mind the trade for Trent either, except that we used a first.  That's the only way you'll get those marqise players.  Sucks they didn't pan out, but Grigson knows that that's the only way you're going to get someone that sticks around for 8 or 10 years when you're constantly drafting 24th or later.

Great point, and expanding on that....there are only a handful of prospects in each draft that can be difference-makers on purely their own identity in the ultimate team game.  If you succeed at a high level, you don't get to draft those players - so the players you draft who become "difference-makers" are generally dependent on the success of your system and the core players around them that make them better - they are not transcendent talents by themselves.  It is exponentially harder to value your skill players when their success is so dependent on your transcendent talent at QB like has been the case in Indy for the last 15+ years.  

 

This is where Belichick has gotten it right, and I also admire the way that the Packers have kept the prices generally low on their skill players as well.  Cobb's recent deal was actually a bit of a departure for them on their core approach to retaining receivers at value pricing.  

 

Despite the escalation of the current and future cap, this deal with TY is not an automatic win for the Colts.  It not only ties up scarce resources - of which there are plenty today - but it shapes the way other players see themselves and their price point in your system.  You have to retain some, and clearly TY is in that category - I'm not complaining, just conflicted.

[throwing BBZ]

I like TY but I don't think he's worth top wr $$. It's going to set a precedent for our younger we'd also. He has improved but dude drops a lot of balls.

 

 He really doesn`t drop a lot of balls. We have had a QB problem. Off target balls that get there late. Andrew is SLOWLY improving.

 This should be a good year for him to work on those type passes, particularly with Andre. lol

 Manning made a big jump in his accuracy/timing in year 6.

 

 TY made a nice deal for himself, he is set for life. He could have gotten more somewhere else.

 But here, playing with Andrew, he can become Internationally famous. Good luck and health TY.

[HtownColt]

@adamlevitan: If numbers are correct, TY Hilton's new average annual salary is $10.8M. Well below Dez/Demaryius ($14M), but in line with Cobb/Maclin.

[Gavin]

What are your thoughts on us being able to retain Fleener and Allen? I would say that one of them is probably not going to be able to be retained.

We will be able to re-sign both, We don't have a lot of other talent that is a MUST re-sign within the next year. Fleener will get top 10 TE money if he has a similar year as he did last year, Allen has to stay healthy the entire year. Im thinking at this point he will be offered around Jordan Cameron $ 12.5 mill guaranteed.....15 mill total.....2-3 year deal....maybe as much as 18 mill 3 years 6 mill average....

[throwing BBZ]

Exactly

 

 I don`t think you really follow the league so closely.

TY is the 14th ranked Fantasy WR for 2015 on one site.  http://nesn.com/2015/08/fantasy-football-rankings-2015-top-20-wide-receivers/

And he isn`t anywhere Near being a top 10 blocker. JMO. Kind of a Homer? Hmmm!

[csmopar]

 

 

Despite the escalation of the current and future cap, this deal with TY is not an automatic win for the Colts.  It not only ties up scarce resources - of which there are plenty today - but it shapes the way other players see themselves and their price point in your system.  You have to retain some, and clearly TY is in that category - I'm not complaining, just conflicted.

 

 

This happens with each and every signing.  It's unavoidable.  If it was, nobody and I mean nobody would ever sign anything.  

[ColtsLegacy]

Allen is definitely a top all around TE. I put him up just outside the elite guys. Interestingly enough PFF has Coby Fleener rated in the top 5 "pass blocking" TE's in football which is a real surprise and Im not sure how they compile their stats to back that up.

Where do you see that?

I have a PFF subscription and here are their pass block ratings from 2014:

Fleener was ranked 59 of 67 qualifying TEs. DA was ranked 2nd, 0.1 behind the first guy (Larry Donnell).

[csmopar]

@adamlevitan: If numbers are correct, TY Hilton's new average annual salary is $10.8M. Well below Dez/Demaryius ($14M), but in line with Cobb/Maclin.

 

 

that's about 3.5 million less than I was expecting.  I was hoping for 12 mil hit average but this is better yet.  

[throwing BBZ]

How much is AC making this year?

 

 You regulars really should get it together on these contract questions.  Again, and again, and again... Spotrac Colts.. do the search

[Yoshinator]

Very nice, Grigson gets it. Paid what he should of and locked down our elite reciever. Now we will have the top receiving core in the NFL for the rest of Luck's career. Great day for Colts fans! Onto Constanzo now!

[wig]

that's about 3.5 million less than I was expecting.  I was hoping for 12 mil hit average but this is better yet.  

 

It's a 13m/year extension.  You thought his extension would be fore 16.5m/year?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

You can only sign the guys that you can sign.  One of the problems we had during the Manning era, and what's now going to seem like the Luck era, is that we're always drafting toward the back quarter of the draft.  Pretty tough to find defensive game changers there.  So that leaves FA, and game changers don't hit free agency, and when they do, you'll be cutting out a check that'd make anyone roll their eyes because how many teams have been crushed by paying a high price FA and then they just turn out to be a bust (or at least not worth the money).  So...you're kind of stuck in a rock and a hard place.  You're going to have to pay a lot to get that player, whether it's draft picks, inflated free agent prices, trades, etc.  That's why I didn't mind that Grigs tried with Bjoern Werner.  I didn't mind the trade for Trent either, except that we used a first.  That's the only way you'll get those marqise players.  Sucks they didn't pan out, but Grigson knows that that's the only way you're going to get someone that sticks around for 8 or 10 years when you're constantly drafting 24th or later.

 

All the good teams pick in the last quarter of the draft. New England, Denver, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, etc, etc. TY wasn't even a first rounder, and look how that worked out. Jonathan Newsome was a late round guy and led the team in sacks last year. Bethea was a 5th or 6th rounder I think? There are plenty of defensive gems available late, they just have to dig and find them.

[Toe Toed Sloth]

 I don`t think you really follow the league so closely.

TY is the 14th ranked Fantasy WR for 2015 on one site.  http://nesn.com/2015/08/fantasy-football-rankings-2015-top-20-wide-receivers/

And he isn`t anywhere Near being a top 10 blocker. JMO. Kind of a Homer? Hmmm!

I love FF as much as the next guy, but being ranked ahead of someone in fantasy doesn't mean you are better in real life or more valuable to a team. 

 

Keep in mind age as well when you are thinking contracts. If you have ever played in a contract league or even a dynasty league, you would understand why Hilton is more valuable than depicted on your redraft list to a franchise due to him only being 25. 

 

Hilton is always going to be undervalued a tad in FF due to lack of TD/RZ production. You can certainly make a case for him being top 5, although I'd probably say top 10 is more realistic. 

[Chucklez]

So he won`t get the money he was owed for this season. Interesting! I guess you know all about it.

Im sorry..... 6years for $66.6m... wprks out at roughly $11m per year as an average

... you really going to pull me up on $0.2m a year.... gimme a break...

[throwing BBZ]

Dwayne Allen is a far better blocker than Doyle. But, I agree, McGrath will have to be very impressive to surpass Doyle.

 

 Last season was NOT a great year for Allen with his blocking. He had quite a few really bad plays last season where he just flat out missed his block.

Doyle had a solid season blocking but his in line blocking needs to get better. He had too many misses too. Young guys that should only get better with the Unit.

 Wish them good health, as this should be fun watching the blocking by all to improve. lol

[lollygagger8]

In guarantees, not fully guaranteed.  

 

Language is important.  When they say "in guarantees" they mean "guaranteed money and guaranteed for injury only"

 

A lot of that money is guaranteed for injury.  

 

Will be eagerly awaiting over the cap to give us the full details but for now glad we locked up TY.  

 

 

Ok again.......whew!!! 

 

 

CONGRATS T.Y!! 

[ztboiler]

that's about 3.5 million less than I was expecting.  I was hoping for 12 mil hit average but this is better yet.  

This is a good example of how we can make the numbers out to be whatever suits our needs.  However, you can't compare an extension with a full year remaining to players out of contract by dollar cost averaging in the year remaining on the extended player.  Bottom line is that we paid at the very top of the market for TY.  It may be a good deal to lock up a great player, but there is no financial bargain here and it cost a similar number to what it would have cost to let him play out this year and then sign him in the off-season.

[ColtsLegacy]

Last season was NOT a great year for Allen with his blocking. He had quite a few really bad plays last season where he just flat out missed his block.

Doyle had a solid season blocking but his in line blocking needs to get better. He had too many misses too. Young guys that should only get better with the Unit.

Wish them good health, as this should be fun watching the blocking by all to improve. lol

I'll admit, for Allen's standards, he missed more blocks than he should have last year, but he still was better than most.

[throwing BBZ]

Allen is definitely a top all around TE. I put him up just outside the elite guys. Interestingly enough PFF has Coby Fleener rated in the top 5 "pass blocking" TE's in football which is a real surprise and Im not sure how they compile their stats to back that up.

 

 I didn`t see Fleeners #`s for last season at PFF, but in 2013 he graded positively in 39 of 40 pass blocking attempts.

 IMO, last season he still was not very good as a run blocker.

 He loses contact way to fast. Not a finisher!!!

 A big reason Pep goes Jumbo with Reitz as his 6th/7th lineman.

[Nobody]

So is it 11 or 13 per, for real?

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Technically yes, if you pay for and go to the home games. The point of my post was more to the fact that quite a few "fans" seemed to think TY wasn't worth the "new market WR money" and they would be "so mad if TY didn't accept a "low ball" offer from the Colts". - my summarization

My point is that there is a salary cap. Most of the cap $ will be spent anyway and doesn't really matter how it's distributed. I don't think TY's contract will impact local ticket prices,parking, etc... Most of it will be spent anyway. And anyway I live in Florida, so even if it did it don't expect me.

What it does, as we all know is effect other players we can afford to sign. But TY is a playmaker and a star and those are the kind of players I like locking up.

[OffensivelyPC]

I agree with most of this except this year we had the chance to take defense. And the year we took Werner we could've taken Rhodes

Collins

Brown

Top 2 picks still available when we picked but we took Dorsett

We're always gonna be drafting 24th or later, but that's where Grigson and his scouts come in. There's talent in every round. I think Anderson and Geathers are gonna be good. You gotta know how to draft late and deep into the draft

Yeah, we could have taken Rhodes, but that wouldn't have improved our pass rush, which let's be honest, has really been the problem.  They took a shot with Werner, and it made some sense.  Our Dorsett pick we can't know if it was any good or not, quite yet.  I know that wasnt' a very popular pick, and part  of me thinks that part of the reason so many people are up in arms about it is because Belicheck took the guy a couple picks later.  If we're talking sheer talent alone, I don't think anyone could really argue with taking Dorsett over Brown and Collins if we had needs at WR, DL, and S (which I would argue that we did have a need a all three.  Does anyone not remember how we were talking about how we need to improve our WR corps for being blanketed all game long against NE in the playoffs and not being able to get open?).  

 

I don't have a problem with the Colts thinking he was the better prospect "by a mile" as Grigs said (or maybe it was Pagano).  Can't fault him for sticking to his ranking.  Because it's just as possible that we could have gone Collins who I personally think will end up being no better or worse than Landry.  Malcom might have been a good pick, but we'll see. So we picked the guy we thought was far and away in the best, we proceeded to go defense for pretty much the rest of the draft, precisely because there is talent at every round.  We'll see how the picks pan out, but I don't think that anyone can look at our 2015 draft class and say with absolute certainty that we've made more bad decisions that good ones.

[SilentHill]

So is it 11 or 13 per, for real?

 

Depends how much they give him this year, it could be 13 per year, he only makes around 1.5mm this year, I expect that to increase.

[Smurphy1]

Probably overpaid by about 1 mil/yr but probably better than letting him walk.

[theanarchist]

Where do you see that?

I have a PFF subscription and here are their pass block ratings from 2014:

Fleener was ranked 59 of 67 qualifying TEs. DA was ranked 2nd, 0.1 behind the first guy (Larry Donnell).

Pass blocking Efficiency, Fleener was #6.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/12/signature-stats-pass-blocking-efficiency-rbs-and-tes/

[Track Guy]

Ugh. That's a lotta money when we're already so stacked at the position. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

I think the Colts overpaid but I love T.Y.  I am glad he's staying a Colt!

[throwing BBZ]

I'll admit, for Allen's standards, he missed more blocks than he should have last year, but he still was better than most.

 

 I didn`t really get to watch MOST TE`s that much, but he is very solid we know that.

We have a lot of youth along the O-Line that is just developing. And a few RB`s that can help them out.

 I have a passion for watching the line blocking and watch/ review it in slow-mo. It has been phugly for much of the last 3 seasons.

  True with most teams like this, we really need to worry about where the Unit is come the last quarter of the season - come Playoffs.

  Probably (injuries) one or two of Thomas, Reitz, Thornton, U John, and D Good will have a big part in it. lol

 

[ColtsLegacy]

Pass blocking Efficiency, Fleener was #6.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/12/signature-stats-pass-blocking-efficiency-rbs-and-tes/

That article is from 609 days ago.

[Nobody]

Depends how much they give him this year, it could be 13 per year, he only makes around 1.5mm this year, I expect that to increase.

if it's actually 11 per I'll be giddy.

[Smurphy1]

So is it 11 or 13 per, for real?

 

The extension is 13 per. The cap hit for those 5 years will average slightly less because the signing bonus will be prorated over 6 years not 5. You can't look at the cap purely on a per year basis. Extra cap rolls over and total cap hit = total money paid. So its wrong to say that it is actually a 11 per deal because its extending his rookie contract. Its a $65 million deal over the next 5 years of cap.

[Steagles]

Okay, legit question here: If they were always going to pay TY, why did you draft Dorsett rather than a position of need, such as Malcolm Brown or Landon Collins?

[OffensivelyPC]

Great point, and expanding on that....there are only a handful of prospects in each draft that can be difference-makers on purely their own identity in the ultimate team game.  If you succeed at a high level, you don't get to draft those players - so the players you draft who become "difference-makers" are generally dependent on the success of your system and the core players around them that make them better - they are not transcendent talents by themselves.  It is exponentially harder to value your skill players when their success is so dependent on your transcendent talent at QB like has been the case in Indy for the last 15+ years.  

 

This is where Belichick has gotten it right, and I also admire the way that the Packers have kept the prices generally low on their skill players as well.  Cobb's recent deal was actually a bit of a departure for them on their core approach to retaining receivers at value pricing.  

 

Despite the escalation of the current and future cap, this deal with TY is not an automatic win for the Colts.  It not only ties up scarce resources - of which there are plenty today - but it shapes the way other players see themselves and their price point in your system.  You have to retain some, and clearly TY is in that category - I'm not complaining, just conflicted.

I agree to the bolded.  I think the TY deal was the Colts going with what they already know. I don't know any teams that give top 5 money to 2 WRs, so those guys are pretty much on notice that they'll be hitting the market should they come to the end of their contract and expecting a good payday (even if deserved).  It is what it is.  Realistically, what could you expect to get that you couldn't get with Dorsett and probably even Carter that you couldn't get with Hilton?  So I'm okay with it.  I wish Hilton was a tad more consistent and didn't disappear for stretches here and there, but even guys like Demaryus Thomas and Megatron are ineffective from time to time.

[theanarchist]

That article is from 609 days ago.

So, you're saying its outdated?

 

Must have been from his rookie season

[theanarchist]

We will be able to re-sign both, We don't have a lot of other talent that is a MUST re-sign within the next year. Fleener will get top 10 TE money if he has a similar year as he did last year, Allen has to stay healthy the entire year. Im thinking at this point he will be offered around Jordan Cameron $ 12.5 mill guaranteed.....15 mill total.....2-3 year deal....maybe as much as 18 mill 3 years 6 mill average....

Even with having to give Luck the biggest contract in NFL history you still think we can re-sign both?