Manning and Luck [Mega-merge]

WoolMagnet · December 30, 2011

Thru this whole Manning / possible 1st pick thing I've gone thru many different emotions. Some conflicting.

First of all, correct me if I'm wrong, but IF we give Manning his 28 Million(?) roster bonus in March , that doesn't include his salary for next year, correct? This is what I've been hearing. Originally I thought that is what we'd pay him for next year but now I'm understanding differently. Does anyone know what we would probably pay him in addition for next year, the following year, etc. Does anyone have the #s from the original contract (5 yr?). If this is true, thats a high price to pay for even a healthy manning. So many people are complaining on paying Luck to sit if we draft him, but i heard his contract would be about 24 million for the next 4 years. That averages 6 million a year. We paid Collins 4 for this year so that almost seems cheap. I realize he's an unproven rookie but still seems like a good investment / risk.

Now back to manning. He's no dummy. I'm starting to feel like if he doesn't give the Colts room to "negotiate" or give the team a "deal" on his salary, then maybe it is time for him to go (I can't believe I just said that) With all the risk involved and uncertainty going forward, I'm starting to think it might be a "bad" investment going forward to invest another 28 million (which will bw spread into future) along with a very high yearly salary. So many complain of the defence and OL / DL being "lower quality" but a primary reason is what we're paying Manning. I was always fine with that until now when his future health is so uncertain. If he is paid and doesn't recover it will hurt this organization far more than "missing" on a couple drafts.

If we do get the first pick, i don't know how we pass on "the guy". So what if he sits. If manning has a problem with restructuring (under the circumstances) and won't play with "the kid" then perhaps he's not the guy i thought he was and I'll feel a little better about his "loss".

Manning has been my favorite football player (Colts or not) of my life. The guy has made me so happy on so many Sundays. I still have trouble thinking about a future without him. But things change, and they have. Manning also should realize this. This organization has made him a very wealthy man. He's been paid more than arguably any sports athlete really should be especially in this economic environment. Its sickening, but thats another issue.

I guess it bothers me when some say the organization should bring in more people to help him get another SB. However, I'm starting to think its him that should be helping the organization with this. Especially under the circumstances of his health issue. I'm confident he knew full well when he took the check for 24 million for this year that it would be the "easiest" money he ever made. Irsay has never held back when it came to paying him, now I feel its time for manning to "repay" some of the "favor".

If not, then I'm ok with whatever the Colts feel they "need to do".

SilentHill · December 30, 2011

Even if Manning wanted to restructure I don't think Irsay would do it. He was the one who demanded he be paid more than Brady when Manning said he would take a cut in pay if we went out and signed some big FA's

Dan · December 30, 2011

I don't think I could stomach Peyton leaving. I've been very pro-Luck on here, several times, but for me it's Manning over him every day. I just don't think my heart could take it!

manningstheman · December 30, 2011

This huge salary he recieved was because of Irsay's grandstanding. Jim wanted to out stage the Patriots and Brady by at least matching the contract Tom got last year. Jim stated many times he would make Peyton the highest paid player in the league. Peyton even came out to the media and said before any papers were signed that he didnt need a huge contract. He tried to get Jim to back off. But, thats not the Irsay's way. So, if you want to blame anyone for the money issue, you need to take it up with the owner in this case.

Mameluc · December 30, 2011

it doesnt matter how much money he gets..the point is he counts 17 million against the cap next year..so dont worry about the 28 million bonus stuff

JoKeR · December 30, 2011

I don't think I could stomach Peyton leaving. I've been very pro-Luck on here, several times, but for me it's Manning over him every day. I just don't think my heart could take it!

This^

WoolMagnet · December 30, 2011

it doesnt matter how much money he gets..the point is he counts 17 million against the cap next year..so dont worry about the 28 million bonus stuff

So will next year be 17M + 28M or will there be additional salary for next year? Or will some or all of that 17M be part of the 28M if we sign him?

In other words is that 17M a past roster bonus stretched out?

Looking at these differences :

Is it (for next year): 28Million (17M is included)

17Million (if we don't keep him)

43 Million (17 + 28 but the 28 would prob be spread out)

43 Million + (17 + 28 + additional salary for next year)

Those are major differences. Which one is correct?

PS.... i agree with all everyone is saying but thats such a risk. This is such a messed up situation.

As far as Irsay, he wasn't aware of Manning's "condition" when he signed Peyton as the highest paid. And that level of respect he gave peyton i feel Manning should now repay(under the circumstances) especially if he want talent added to the team for a "run"..

MAC · December 30, 2011

So will next year be 17M + 28M or will there be additional salary for next year? Or will some or all of that 17M be part of the 28M if we sign him?
In other words is that 17M a past roster bonus stretched out?
Looking at these differences :
Is it (for next year): 28Million (17M is included)
17Million (if we don't keep him)
43 Million (17 + 28 but the 28 would prob be spread out)
43 Million + (17 + 28 + additional salary for next year)
Those are major differences. Which one is correct?
PS.... i agree with all everyone is saying but thats such a risk. This is such a messed up situation.
As far as Irsay, he wasn't aware of Manning's "condition" when he signed Peyton as the highest paid. And that level of respect he gave peyton i feel Manning should now repay(under the circumstances) especially if he want talent added to the team for a "run"..

He signed a cap friendly contract at a discount relative to fair market value (and the franchise tag). The bonus next year is no different than a signing bonus at the beginning of a deal - it simply represents the portion of the contract that is guaranteed. The bottom line is that if Peyton is healthy, you keep on going and honor that cap friendly contract. If he isn't healthy, you release him before the signing bonus is paid - minimizing the cash outlay. I don't know the exact cap hit at that point, but it is irrelevent as it is already a commitment.

The significance of the bonus to keep in mind is that Peyton wanted it there as much or more than the Colts did specifically to give them an "out" if he couldn't continue. It is nothing to get in a frenzy over, it's just the line in the sand by which his health needs to be reasonably assertained.

Now if it's still up in the air and both sides agree to push the deadline somehow, that's another story. Peyton clearly doesn't want to continue to get paid if he isn't competing.

braveheartcolt · December 30, 2011

Every Superstar eventually has to retire. It's no different from old age. If and when the great man moves on, we should applaud, reminisce, and look forward. Next man up indeed.

GatorColts · December 30, 2011

I don't think I could stomach Peyton leaving. I've been very pro-Luck on here, several times, but for me it's Manning over him every day. I just don't think my heart could take it!

I agree, I am all for drafting Luck, but seeing Peyton in a different jersey just does not sit well with me and I know a lot of people feel the same way about Manning!

WoolMagnet · December 30, 2011

^{Please don't think I'm bashing Peyton. My post could be mis-interpreted. Peyton is by far my favorite player. Looking back, I didn't word things the way I was thinking. It's emotion.... you know?}

^{I don't fully understand the contract and the details. I was aware of the reasons for the bonus in March.}

^{I guess my "problem" is that:}

^{1. I'd be surprised if Peyton is "game-ready" by March deadline.}

^{2.If he isn't , how do you pay the $28 million? Its such a risk.}

^{If #2 is true, that will be a MAJOR bummer.}

^{3.If you don't spend the $28 million , you probably lose him.}

^{The Luck thing is secondary to me. I wouldn't trade manning for Luck. I 'd take a guaranteed Manning for 2 or 3 years over Luck every time (i think). But theres nothing remotely close to a guarantee.}

^{My concern , overall, is that if Manning can't come back even if we do spend the $28 million + , I would hope we bring in the "next guy" NOW.}

^{And , if we are gonna bring the "next guy" in now, You gotta get the best one you can.}

^{The next 6 months to a year could possibly go down as one of the most dramatic and impactful set of decisions an organization has ever made in pro sports. It could really go either way at this point.}

^{I think, a year from now, this team is going to either be a top-5 team in the league, or even a bottom 5 or 10. It won't be middle-ground.}

^{Buckle up, its gonna get bumpy.}

Dan · December 30, 2011

Nobody thinks (or at least I didn't think) you were bashing Manning. End of the day, this thread brings up a topic a lot of us are familiar with but none of us want to talk about, a real elephant in the room. All the points you raise are valid but we're all too scared to accept it as a possibility. All I know is, it would kill me to see Peyton Manning throwing for a different team. But there's nothing we can do, we have to sit and pray he's fit enough by March to warrant us giving him that $28m. I have full faith Peyton Manning's last ever game will be wearing Colts blue, I just hope that that game is played in 2015 and not 2010.

MAC · December 30, 2011

^{Please don't think I'm bashing Peyton. My post could be mis-interpreted. Peyton is by far my favorite player. Looking back, I didn't word things the way I was thinking. It's emotion.... you know?}
^{I don't fully understand the contract and the details. I was aware of the reasons for the bonus in March.}
^{I guess my "problem" is that:}
^{1. I'd be surprised if Peyton is "game-ready" by March deadline.}
^{2.If he isn't , how do you pay the $28 million? Its such a risk.}
^{If #2 is true, that will be a MAJOR bummer.}
^{3.If you don't spend the $28 million , you probably lose him.}
^{The Luck thing is secondary to me. I wouldn't trade manning for Luck. I 'd take a guaranteed Manning for 2 or 3 years over Luck every time (i think). But theres nothing remotely close to a guarantee.}
^{My concern , overall, is that if Manning can't come back even if we do spend the $28 million + , I would hope we bring in the "next guy" NOW.}
^{And , if we are gonna bring the "next guy" in now, You gotta get the best one you can.}
^{The next 6 months to a year could possibly go down as one of the most dramatic and impactful set of decisions an organization has ever made in pro sports. It could really go either way at this point.}
^{I think, a year from now, this team is going to either be a top-5 team in the league, or even a bottom 5 or 10. It won't be middle-ground.}
^{Buckle up, its gonna get bumpy.}

I didn't think for a second that you were bashing Peyton.

I think that what will be relevent at the deadline is whether he has continued to improve throughout his rehab, or if he has plateaued without being able to perform at a pro level. The reports about his throwing were encouraging, so it is entirely possible that the nerve is working again, and he just needs to build muscle. I have every confidence that Manning will be retained if there is ANY chance that he will be his old self again. If not, Peyton wouldn't want to play anyway. If they gamble and fail, I would 100 times prefer that to them letting him go to save money and having him sign elsewhere. Do you honestly think that Irsay is going to let that happen after all that Manning has meant to the franchise? I wouldn't sweat it so much. They'll probably draft a QB regardless, and figure it out from there.

The Peytonator · December 30, 2011

Peyton's contract will account for $17 million against the salary cap. Freeney's will be something like $19 mil. I'd rather pay the 17 for an all pro quarterback than the 19 for a pass rusher. Not saying Freeney should be cut, just that 17 million isn't that much in the scheme of things.

nitecrawler · December 30, 2011

I don't think I could stomach Peyton leaving. I've been very pro-Luck on here, several times, but for me it's Manning over him every day. I just don't think my heart could take it!

Luck is for the future...Manning is for "now"

dynasty13 · December 30, 2011

Every Superstar eventually has to retire. It's no different from old age. If and when the great man moves on, we should applaud, reminisce, and look forward. Next man up indeed.

Exactly right. This is the point where fans, and the franchise for that matter, have to decide if they are a fan of one guy or a fan of the actual team. Its a past vs future crossroads. Could Peyton still be at the top of the game when he returns? Absolutely. But even so, it will only be a few more years. The Colts arent lost without Peyton Manning. Even though they got off to a rough start, the last few weeks we've seen that this team CAN win as long as they have a capable quarterback, and the guy we're talking about as that Manning replacement is far more than just capable.

This isnt an unheard of circumstance. When San Francisco traded Joe Montana, 49er fans still loved him, but they ended up just fine with the next guy up. In Green Bay, they drafted a guy to be Brett Favre's replacement, and when the time came to make the decision of past vs future, they did what was best for the future and now have one of the top quarterbacks in the league who might very well lead his franchise to the next NFL dynasty. Loyalty only takes you so far before it turns into bad business.

BmoreColt · December 30, 2011

Even if Manning wanted to restructure I don't think Irsay would do it. He was the one who demanded he be paid more than Brady when Manning said he would take a cut in pay if we went out and signed some big FA's

You sir are 100% Correct! Manning said DON'T MAKE ME THE HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE...IN FACT HE SAID PUT A GOOD TEAM AROUND ME...AND JIM IRSAY SAID NONSENSE PEYTON!

MCurtis32 · December 30, 2011

Peyton is not just a team asset. He represents the City, NFL and all that is good about professional sports. He is an icon and money maker on so many levels. Irsay would pay Manning to watch another QB play.Peyton himself would not remain on the field with deminished skills. Possibility of him playing for another team is zero, no matter what the cost. You have to get his replacement now.

BmoreColt · December 30, 2011

Peyton is not just a team asset. He represents the City, NFL and all that is good about professional sports. He is an icon and money maker on so many levels. Irsay would pay Manning to watch another QB play.Peyton himself would not remain on the field with deminished skills. Possibility of him playing for another team is zero, no matter what the cost. You have to get his replacement now.

I don't think that is fully true... I think if Peyton is healthy, and the Colts go Luck in the draft, there could be some problems... there are already rumblings of a problem between Manning and Polian... Peyton if healthy, is not ready to walk away from the game.. look at him on the sidelines... Do I think he cares so much for the Colts? Yes! But as everyone says time and time again its business not personal, well if Peyton wants to win Super Bowls.. unfortunately it may be elsewhere..

GrizzColt · December 30, 2011

We saw Peyton on the sideline pulling for Orlovsky and was happy he won. That is because of 2 reasons: 1) Peyton is a Colt and wants to win. 2) Peyton doesn't feel threatend by Orlovsky going forward. That being said, if we draft Luck and the 2 of them (Peyton and Andrew) are in training camp together, the question is would Peyton feel threatened by Luck. Honestly, if Peyton is healthy, is there ANY way that Luck can outperform Peyton to see who is the starter? If he were able to beat out Peyton, then he definitely is a force to be dealt with. At that point, Peyton would have to acknowledge it and the better man wins or he can ask to go somewhere else, which would break our hearts.

Jaric · December 30, 2011

Honestly, if Peyton is healthy, is there ANY way that Luck can outperform Peyton to see who is the starter? If he were able to beat out Peyton, then he definitely is a force to be dealt with.

Yeah, that would actually be awesome. Not to see Manning get outplayed or to see him let go...but knowing we drafted a guy who can...outplay Manning.

I mean, maybe 5-10 guys in NFL history might be able to make that claim?

BmoreColt · December 30, 2011

So I have been really contemplating the issue of do I want the Colts to win or lose Sunday? Especially since I am of the side that wants the Colts to have Manning going forward, with a better roster around him and win Super Bowls now, while still improving the team for the QB to take over post Manning! That would lead most to think I want the Colts to win, but I still want the Colts to lose and get the #1 pick, because trading the #1 pick brings more value to the Colts then getting the #2 pick, and deciding what to do with it. Now having said that, like most I assume Manning will be back healthy next year. Most who want Luck want the two quarterbacks to co-exist. Even with the parameters of rookie wage scale, it does not make sense to take Luck and have the two on the same roster. There is however a very big issue most are not considering when the idea of a trade down comes up.

If Manning is healthy and the Colts have the #1 pick, chances are the Colts will not be picking at the top of any round, until Manning’s time is done! Having said that, by trading down, not only does it improve the team short term, and develop players to help long term, but it gives the Colts DRAFT PICKS at the top of the first round for the following two drafts! Chances are the Colts can get 3 #1’s and 2 #2’s for the pick. That makes the Colts players for any prospect they really want in the next three drafts! There is ammunition to trade up for a player next year and most likely the following draft! The Colts would have two first round picks next year and the year after, one of those being at the beginning of the round the other hopefully at the very end! Nobody is considering how the draft picks for the future are crucial for this team both short and long term! Much better than using the pick on a guy to sit on the bench four years, when Manning returns! Yes I know, he is the can’t miss prospect, the next Peyton Manning.. Do we really think the next Peyton Manning is going to come while Peyton Manning is still playing? Every year they call a player at the top of the draft a can’t miss player. They said Cam Newton was a major risk, that he wasn’t NFL ready, what does that show us? Scouts and Experts are wrong.. and that happens very often! Imagine trading the pick with a team like Cleveland who wants to trade up, the Colts would have two first round picks and an extra second this year, the same with next year, and maybe a first round the following year! Cleveland will probably still be bottom feeders even with Luck, look at the division they are in. What does that mean? It means another top 10 selection in the first and second round next year at the very worse! The Colts could even trade it to a team like Miami or Buffalo, who are unhappy with their QB situation, have a top 10 pick this year, and would face the Jets and Patriots two times a year! Again that means a top 10 pick in the first and second next year and possibly beyond! It also means someone to make life a little more difficult for Tom Brady in the division!

The Colts will be in the driver seat of their own destiny on Sunday, despite wanting the Luck pick traded I still want the Colts to end up with the #1 pick! But we all need to just relax and let the pieces fall where they are going to! I just hope Indy wises up and realizes that trading the pick doesn’t just improve the team in the short term filling holes, but it gives more top tier draft picks to address the team in the future!

Quantum88 · December 30, 2011

Frankly, I believe the talk of Luck is irrelevant. I believe we put that behind us when we beat the Texans because we will beat the Jags and beat them badly on Sunday. Peyton's health needs to be our primary concern because he is the man who will either take us to a number of Super Bowls over the next 4-5 years or we won't be going. RGIII will not get us there. He will be a good NFL QB, but not even close to the level of Manning. Only Luck in this year's group will ever approach Manning's ability to run an offense entirely from the line of scrimmage.

Quantum88 · December 30, 2011

Beating the Texans made this an unlikely. We will beat the Jags soundly and end up with the #2 pick.

Jaric · December 30, 2011

There is a pretty strong argument for trading the pick even if you determine that Andrew Luck is who people think he is.

Even if the team that does the trading ends up drafting higher, that gives you two first round picks to be able to trade up in a particular draft if you deteremine there is a "must have" player

I like to poke fun of Belichick for always trading down in the drafts, but you have to admit, collecting all those picks gives you excellent flexibility on draft day. Trading the first pick would give us similar flexibility.

MyBeautifulChineseDoll · December 30, 2011

If the first pick truly means that we lose manning,then i want the second pick.I willnot accept luck over manning...ever.If we have the first pick,then its likely that luck is selected,but then traded an hour later.But during that hour i'll be nervous as heck.

Balzer40 · December 30, 2011

If the first pick truly means that we lose manning,then i want the second pick.I willnot accept luck over manning...ever.If we have the first pick,then its likely that luck is selected,but then traded an hour later.But during that hour i'll be nervous as heck.

Do you honestly think the Colts care at all what you'll accept?

That Guy · December 30, 2011

Do you honestly think the Colts care at all what you'll accept?

Ha! Do you honestly think he will care what the Colts care about at that point? He said it would be unacceptable to him...

I do agree with the thoughts behind this thread, though. The #1 pick this year has an INCREDIBLE amount of value compared to the #2 (and even compared to other #1s).

MyBeautifulChineseDoll · December 30, 2011

Do you honestly think the Colts care at all what you'll accept?

I think jim better consider his fanbase before making any haste decisions.This could be a frachise crushing decision,if he makes a mistake.I think the collective voice of the fanbase has spoken,and we wish to retain mr.manning.So...'yes',they should care.

BmoreColt · December 30, 2011

Artricle written today about the #1 Draft Pick, and it talks specifically about Indy... Apparently there is talk about the #1 pick being worth SIX FIRST ROUND PICKS!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1002474-whether-colts-or-rams-land-top-pick-team-must-trade-rights-to-andrew-luck

Balzer40 · December 30, 2011

I think jim better consider his fanbase before making any haste decisions.This could be a frachise crushing decision,if he makes a mistake.I think the collective voice of the fanbase has spoken,and we wish to retain mr.manning.So...'yes',they should care.

Well, they won't. If they listened to the fans Caldwell would have been gone last yr.. They are going to make a business decision and not one based on emotions. As much as it pains people, Mannings career is coming to an end and if they can get his replacement this next draft that is exactly what they'll do regardless of how anybody in the fanbase feels about it.

Balzer40 · December 30, 2011

Artricle written today about the #1 Draft Pick, and it talks specifically about Indy... Apparently there is talk about the #1 pick being worth SIX FIRST ROUND PICKS!
http://bleacherrepor...-to-andrew-luck

If there was a team out there that absolutely stupid to trade 6 1st rders. to the Colts for the pick then I would change my mind about drafting Luck and take my chances down the road or later in this draft. With that said, I don't believe for a second that any team would be that stupid.

Quantum88 · December 30, 2011

It always amazes me that people on "forums" believe they speak for all of the fans of a team. There are about 11,000 members of Colts Direct and several million fans. The total number of people who post regularly on this forum is probably less than 500. How does that translate into "speaking" for the entire fan base. The only thing that owners listen to is $$$ because they are in business to make money. If the fans quit buying tickets, watching games on tv and quit buying merchandise, then they will listen, but not before and certainly not to what is posted on a forum by a tiny percentage of the total fan base.

That Guy · December 30, 2011

It always amazes me that people on "forums" believe they speak for all of the fans of a team. There are about 11,000 members of Colts Direct and several million fans. The total number of people who post regularly on this forum is probably less than 500. How does that translate into "speaking" for the entire fan base. The only thing that owners listen to is $$$ because they are in business to make money. If the fans quit buying tickets, watching games on tv and quit buying merchandise, then they will listen, but not before and certainly not to what is posted on a forum by a tiny percentage of the total fan base.

So the Polians plan to pick Luck for the jersey sales! It makes so much sense now!

Indianapolis-Colts-Fan · December 30, 2011

So I have been really contemplating the issue of do I want the Colts to win or lose Sunday? Especially since I am of the side that wants the Colts to have Manning going forward, with a better roster around him and win Super Bowls now, while still improving the team for the QB to take over post Manning! That would lead most to think I want the Colts to win, but I still want the Colts to lose and get the #1 pick, because trading the #1 pick brings more value to the Colts then getting the #2 pick, and deciding what to do with it. Now having said that, like most I assume Manning will be back healthy next year. Most who want Luck want the two quarterbacks to co-exist. Even with the parameters of rookie wage scale, it does not make sense to take Luck and have the two on the same roster. There is however a very big issue most are not considering when the idea of a trade down comes up.
If Manning is healthy and the Colts have the #1 pick, chances are the Colts will not be picking at the top of any round, until Manning’s time is done! Having said that, by trading down, not only does it improve the team short term, and develop players to help long term, but it gives the Colts DRAFT PICKS at the top of the first round for the following two drafts! Chances are the Colts can get 3 #1’s and 2 #2’s for the pick. That makes the Colts players for any prospect they really want in the next three drafts! There is ammunition to trade up for a player next year and most likely the following draft! The Colts would have two first round picks next year and the year after, one of those being at the beginning of the round the other hopefully at the very end! Nobody is considering how the draft picks for the future are crucial for this team both short and long term! Much better than using the pick on a guy to sit on the bench four years, when Manning returns! Yes I know, he is the can’t miss prospect, the next Peyton Manning.. Do we really think the next Peyton Manning is going to come while Peyton Manning is still playing? Every year they call a player at the top of the draft a can’t miss player. They said Cam Newton was a major risk, that he wasn’t NFL ready, what does that show us? Scouts and Experts are wrong.. and that happens very often! Imagine trading the pick with a team like Cleveland who wants to trade up, the Colts would have two first round picks and an extra second this year, the same with next year, and maybe a first round the following year! Cleveland will probably still be bottom feeders even with Luck, look at the division they are in. What does that mean? It means another top 10 selection in the first and second round next year at the very worse! The Colts could even trade it to a team like Miami or Buffalo, who are unhappy with their QB situation, have a top 10 pick this year, and would face the Jets and Patriots two times a year! Again that means a top 10 pick in the first and second next year and possibly beyond! It also means someone to make life a little more difficult for Tom Brady in the division!
The Colts will be in the driver seat of their own destiny on Sunday, despite wanting the Luck pick traded I still want the Colts to end up with the #1 pick! But we all need to just relax and let the pieces fall where they are going to! I just hope Indy wises up and realizes that trading the pick doesn’t just improve the team in the short term filling holes, but it gives more top tier draft picks to address the team in the future!

Finally someone who agrees with trading the pick.

Quantum88 · December 30, 2011

I have supported trading the pick since it became apparent that we were in the running to get the pick. Thinking that Jim Irsay or the Polians care what I think would make me even more delusional than I am.

MyBeautifulChineseDoll · December 30, 2011

So the Polians plan to pick Luck for the jersey sales! It makes so much sense now!

Its all coming clear to me now!You're right...it must be for selling luck jerseys! haha !And giant foam LUCKY HORSESHOES!

MyBeautifulChineseDoll · December 30, 2011

If there was a team out there that absolutely stupid to trade 6 1st rders. to the Colts for the pick then I would change my mind about drafting Luck and take my chances down the road or later in this draft. With that said, I don't believe for a second that any team would be that stupid.

Have you heard of dan snyder?He's such a man.

JoKeR · December 30, 2011

If we get the #1 pick, the Colts will draft Luck, and keep Manning too if he's healthy. According to Irsay and Polian.

MyBeautifulChineseDoll · December 30, 2011

It always amazes me that people on "forums" believe they speak for all of the fans of a team. There are about 11,000 members of Colts Direct and several million fans. The total number of people who post regularly on this forum is probably less than 500. How does that translate into "speaking" for the entire fan base. The only thing that owners listen to is $$$ because they are in business to make money. If the fans quit buying tickets, watching games on tv and quit buying merchandise, then they will listen, but not before and certainly not to what is posted on a forum by a tiny percentage of the total fan base.

I only speak for my family and friends,which is quite alot and MANY are season ticket holders.And most flatout refuse taking LUCK.But at the end of the day,i can only speak for myself and i don't want luck.I'm just one fan.....

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Manning and Luck [Mega-merge]

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