Jason Cole: Colts top suiters for Suh and Hardy. (Merge)

[Superman]

I think a legit case can be made in regards to his motives tied in with his effort at times, This past year he had a fantastic year both against the run and pass, The most plays against the pass since his rookie year (sacks) and the most stuffs against the run this year with 13...Highest of his career

 

He wouldn't be the first player to get a huge pay day and then fail to live up to it. Big money free agents that switch teams disappoint more often than not.

[swifty1812]

The truth is that our defense does use a 3-tech penetrator, often. And Suh plays 2 gaps in the run game, often. The only difference between playing in our front vs a 4-3 front for Suh would be that he would line up between a tackle and a guard more often. If we're smart, we'd move him around like the Texans do Watt. Holder compares him to McCoy, but he's different from McCoy.

 

Polian's point was don't try to reinvent a player. That doesn't mean you can't take him out of a 4-3 and put him in a 3-4. Especially if your 3-4 is malleable, which ours is.

 

It's definitely a major consideration, but I don't think scheme fit is a problem in this case.

So if you aren't worried about the money or the scheme fit, what is your worry with Suh?

[Colts_Fan12]

Suh is probably the 3rd best d-lineman in the NFL, and after that first Houston game, I think he wants his own (although lesser) version of JJ Watt.

who else do you have ahead of him besides Watt?

[TKnight24]

they did beat us last year...

Eh, they did. But still not better than us. Colts lose a lot of games they should win or have close games when they shouldn't

And we're definitely a better team now. We'll see them again I'm sure

[jskinnz]

The truth is that our defense does use a 3-tech penetrator, often. And Suh plays 2 gaps in the run game, often. The only difference between playing in our front vs a 4-3 front for Suh would be that he would line up between a tackle and a guard more often. If we're smart, we'd move him around like the Texans do Watt. Holder compares him to McCoy, but he's different from McCoy.

 

Polian's point was don't try to reinvent a player. That doesn't mean you can't take him out of a 4-3 and put him in a 3-4. Especially if your 3-4 is malleable, which ours is.

 

It's definitely a major consideration, but I don't think scheme fit is a problem in this case.

 

I do think his talent and strength could compensate for what his role here would be compared to what it was in Detroit.  But I would also say that he has made is hay primarily going against interior o'lineman where here that would change to a large degree and he would face more elite athletes in OT's.  Maybe not a major concern but his success here would be more of a gamble than as a DT in a 4-3 as it is not an exact apples to apples transition.  Ultimately I think it would work and the thought of him in Indy is exciting.

 

I am skeptical anyway of all these reports, including Holder's whose info seems to be coming from inside the Colts' complex.  Lots of team and agent mis-information out there now.  And the info may also be exactly correct now but Suh may decide next week that going back to Detroit is his best option. 

 

Next week will be fun.

[Superman]

So if you aren't worried about the money or the scheme fit, what is your worry with Suh?

 

Don't misunderstand, my major consideration with Suh is the money. Not that we can't afford him, but that big money free agents don't live up to expectations most of the time. Between contract year motivation, changing circumstances, injury, etc., the law of averages says that if you splurge on a free agent from another team, you're going to overspend, and you're not going to get your money's worth. That's true of guys in the $8-10m/year range; it's incredibly true of guys in the $15m+/year range.

 

I'm also not brushing off scheme fit. It's very possible that he'd struggle to adjust to our front. I think he's good enough that he'd still be a major impact player in our front.

 

He's also a volatile personality, at least on the field. He's evidently a top notch guy off the field, but that aggression has to come from somewhere, and I'd be afraid of an "incident" undermining his ability to perform on the field and help the team.

 

He's an elite player. They rarely reach free agency, but when they do, it's worth considering. But it would probably be the riskiest thing we could do, and if it didn't work, it would have major repercussions. It would be worse than the Richardson trade, IMO.

[Dustin]

who else do you have ahead of him besides Watt?

McCoy.

[Colts_Fan12]

McCoy.

that's the only person I could think of I might give Suh the edge IMO

[bababooey]

McAfee and Mathis both trying to court Suh over twitter. Wish the front office would wake up. Pro football talk just said Miami is the team to watch in the Suh sweepstakes

[oldunclemark]

We really DON`T have a lot of money.

Luck & Hilton will eat up over half of it so won`t it be saved for them?

Then Allen, Fleener.

 

 My guess a New D-Lineman in FA for over $5M per. And a WR vet that may cost some $$ on what is really a 2 yr deal.

 And a bunch of roster filling pieces after that.

  Kinda hoping for a Cherilus health cut so a RT maybe also.

I agree..we have lots of money now..but we have young folks to pay soon

[oldunclemark]

$15=$17 mil a year for a d-lineman is way too much...we all know that..and we're trying to talk ourselves into thinking its not

[Colts_Fan12]

I agree..we have lots of money now..but we have young folks to pay soon

has anyone been reading Dustin's comments?? We will have over 80mil in cap space next year we have plenty of money

[Dustin]

$15=$17 mil a year for a d-lineman is way too much...we all know that..and we're trying to talk ourselves into thinking its not

Speak for yourself.

[Gavin]

McCoy.

Just out of curiousity why do you have McCoy (who is clearly very good don't get me wrong) over Suh?

[BOTT]

I don't get why some of you don't want Suh. He's the 2nd best D-Lineman in the league. I mean he's one of the most dominate defensive players in the last several years actually. Who cares if he plays a little dirty, we need some mean players. He would give us that mean streak we've been lacking on defense. He's a complete and total game wrecking machine and he's in his freaking prime. The money isn't a big deal. The cap's went up 20 million in the last 2years. It'll go up another 10 million next year.

He's too mean

If only he did that PB&J Dance....

[ProblChld32]

All speculations, but with that being said im extremely excited for Fee Agency ( yes i said fee McCourty & Suh are gonna come with a hefty price tag) lol 

[Superman]

So if you aren't worried about the money or the scheme fit, what is your worry with Suh?

 

Adding to my previous response, the best recent parallel for Suh is Mario Williams. I wouldn't say he's been a disappointment; he's actually produced really well for them. But they've won a total of 21 games in his three years there, and haven't come close to the playoffs. So you have to consider what you're actually getting for the money. In the Bills' case, they've gotten an extra 1.7 wins per season, and they still can't win the division (and that's not all Williams; they've also added Jerry Hughes, Kiko Alonso, and had some additions on offense, and better coaching).

 

And Mario Williams is probably best case scenario for a $100m free agent from another team.

 

We're in a different place than the Bills. An extra 1.7 wins in 2014 gets us a first round bye, maybe home field in the playoffs. But good teams don't usually gain an extra 1.7 wins because of one player. The law of diminishing returns kicks in once you reach a certain level. He'd make us better, that's for sure. But would he have more impact for us than Searcy + McPhee?

[PeterBowman]

I'm thinking it could have to depend on what happens with Haloti Ngata.

 

if he's released, I'd rather Grigson jump on him....yes he won't be cheap but will be a bargain compared to what Suh will be.

 

He also knows the system and is a system fit.

 

They could use the savings by going after someone like McCourty, etc. Could conceivably fill multiple holes for the price of one.

[Dustin]

Just out of curiousity why do you have McCoy (who is clearly very good don't get me wrong) over Suh?

They're probably on par, McCoy has been more consistent against the run in his career.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Apparently we are the lead to sign EVERYONE!!   Shu & Hardy play in 4/3 defense's I am not opposed to going after either one but please no stupid contracts. If it were my choice I would rather have Shu.

[bananabucket]

But would he have more impact for us than Searcy + McPhee?

 

 

Searcy is overrated.  I like McPhee but come on, we're talking about Ndamukong Suh here.

[Superman]

Searcy is overrated.  I like McPhee but come on, we're talking about Ndamukong Suh here.

 

Searcy is hardly rated at all. 

[Colts_Fan12]

Searcy is hardly rated at all.

I want him!! Lol

[Restored]

Adding to my previous response, the best recent parallel for Suh is Mario Williams. I wouldn't say he's been a disappointment; he's actually produced really well for them. But they've won a total of 21 games in his three years there, and haven't come close to the playoffs. So you have to consider what you're actually getting for the money. In the Bills' case, they've gotten an extra 1.7 wins per season, and they still can't win the division (and that's not all Williams; they've also added Jerry Hughes, Kiko Alonso, and had some additions on offense, and better coaching).

 

And Mario Williams is probably best case scenario for a $100m free agent from another team.

 

We're in a different place than the Bills. An extra 1.7 wins in 2014 gets us a first round bye, maybe home field in the playoffs. But good teams don't usually gain an extra 1.7 wins because of one player. The law of diminishing returns kicks in once you reach a certain level. He'd make us better, that's for sure. But would he have more impact for us than Searcy + McPhee?

 

I'd say he would have more of an impact that Searcy + McPhee. I understand the Mario Williams comparison but honestly, I don't think they are on the same level. I'd say a more fair player comparison would be J.J. Watt. I understand the use of Williams for the free agent DL comparison sake but it doesn't equate in regards to how talented the two players are in relation to each other. The Bills have had plenty of other reasons why they haven't done much since signing Williams either.

 

Suh is the kind of player that would completely change the complexion of your defense. Commands double teams, disrupts both the pass and run consistently and forces offenses to change their game plan entirely in some cases. Scheme doesn't matter either for a player like him.

 

People seem to forget that the Colts do align in a traditional 4-3 defense at times. I have little doubt that Pagano and Manusky would utilize him properly.

[BProland85]

If we indeed have close to 90 mil of cap space next year...then we need to bring in some studs on this teams. With that said, we do run a hybrid defense so Suh would fit and play DT on 4/3 downs and DE on 3/4 downs. If we have to spend our cap room, if like to spend it on a proven superstar and Suh would instantly make everyone else on defense better. Again the only way I don't want Suh is if grigson is confident we can get haloti ngata.

[Superman]

I'd say he would have more of an impact that Searcy + McPhee. I understand the Mario Williams comparison but honestly, I don't think they are on the same level. I'd say a more fair player comparison would be J.J. Watt. I understand the use of Williams for the free agent DL comparison sake but it doesn't equate in regards to how talented the two players are in relation to each other. The Bills have had plenty of other reasons why they haven't done much since signing Williams either.

 

Suh is the kind of player that would completely change the complexion of your defense. Commands double teams, disrupts both the pass and run consistently and forces offenses to change their game plan entirely in some cases. Scheme doesn't matter either for a player like him.

 

People seem to forget that the Colts do align in a traditional 4-3 defense at times. I have little doubt that Pagano and Manusky would utilize him properly.

 

In comparing him to Williams, the point is to find an elite defensive player who switched teams in free agency. I know their playing style is different.

 

As for his impact on the game, I agree. Ideally speaking, he'd be a true game-wrecker in our front, and help make everyone's job easier. He plays closer to the ball than McPhee and Searcy, so his impact probably would be greater. But if he gets hurt, or otherwise disappoints, you've sunk all your dough in one guy. If you sign McPhee and Searcy, and one guy doesn't pan out, you still have the other one. You've diversified, rather than going for the big kill.

 

And yeah, if our coaches aren't complete dimwits, we can make Suh fit our front. 

 

I'm not necessarily against it. I jut think it's a HUGE risk.

[Superman]

Why would we lose TY? Do any of you guys understand our cap situation? At this moment we have a projected $88M in cap space next season. That's only going to get larger with the new TV deal kicking in. 

 

Worst comes to worse and we lose our tight-ends. Both of which are replaceable. We would not lose TY. 

 

Truth to the bolded. DirecTV is paying 50% more over the next 8 years. That deal starts in 2015, but I don't think the revenue hits the books and affects the cap until 2016. The cap could push $160m.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2014/10/08/directv-extends-its-deal-with-nfl-for-12-billion/

[peytonmanning18]

I don't get why some of you don't want Suh. He's the 2nd best D-Lineman in the league. I mean he's one of the most dominate defensive players in the last several years actually. Who cares if he plays a little dirty, we need some mean players. He would give us that mean streak we've been lacking on defense. He's a complete and total game wrecking machine and he's in his freaking prime. The money isn't a big deal. The cap's went up 20 million in the last 2years. It'll go up another 10 million next year.

Some people on here seem to think that they will be personally responsible for paying his salary.

[Restored]

In comparing him to Williams, the point is to find an elite defensive player who switched teams in free agency. I know their playing style is different.

As for his impact on the game, I agree. Ideally speaking, he'd be a true game-wrecker in our front, and help make everyone's job easier. He plays closer to the ball than McPhee and Searcy, so his impact probably would be greater. But if he gets hurt, or otherwise disappoints, you've sunk all your dough in one guy. If you sign McPhee and Searcy, and one guy doesn't pan out, you still have the other one. You've diversified, rather than going for the big kill.

And yeah, if our coaches aren't complete dimwits, we can make Suh fit our front.

I'm not necessarily against it. I jut think it's a HUGE risk.

Right, and I acknowledged that. Just don't think it was really fair comparison even though it's probably the closest one that's out there.

That is true in regards to the risk spread I agree. But I mean, Andrew could go out next season and get hurt as well. It's just the risk that comes with the business. It's just that players like him don't EVER get to free agency. Teams will atleast franchise tag a player like that before they risk free agency. The common talk is that there hasn't been a player of this caliber available since Peyton Manning in 12'. And quite honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't with Detroit doing something like mortgaging the house to keep him.

With all that said, I doubt the Colts get him. They have the money and I think they will make a play for him but I could see a team like the Raiders or somehow, Miami getting him.

[bap1331]

Yeah, not gonna happen.

Youre the most pessimistic person on this forum. You should go to the bucs forum, they probably have some of the worst in the league.

[MTC]

Youre the most pessimistic person on this forum. You should go to the bucs forum, they probably have some of the worst in the league.

 

I'm not being pessimistic?

 

I'm just stating that it's unrealistic.

 

Greg Hardy doesn't fit our scheme and I highly doubt Colts are going to pay big $$ for Suh. 

[Ohio Colt]

We'll probably land Hardy. But we aren't getting Suh

[scooter4910]

I am terrified that we pay what Suh thinks he's worth and he turns out to be a bust. Would much rather have Knighton and maybe Dan Williams. At least we would have a 50/50 chance of one of them working out instead of an all or nothing....maybe close to the same amount of money.

[Superman]

I am terrified that we pay what Suh thinks he's worth and he turns out to be a bust. Would much rather have Knighton and maybe Dan Williams. At least we would have a 50/50 chance of one of them working out instead of an all or nothing....maybe close to the same amount of money.

If you want what Suh brings, the combo of Knighton and Williams at their very best doesn't scratch that itch. It's like signing two good guards when you want a LT.

[Superman]

Right, and I acknowledged that. Just don't think it was really fair comparison even though it's probably the closest one that's out there.

That is true in regards to the risk spread I agree. But I mean, Andrew could go out next season and get hurt as well. It's just the risk that comes with the business. It's just that players like him don't EVER get to free agency. Teams will atleast franchise tag a player like that before they risk free agency. The common talk is that there hasn't been a player of this caliber available since Peyton Manning in 12'. And quite honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't with Detroit doing something like mortgaging the house to keep him.

With all that said, I doubt the Colts get him. They have the money and I think they will make a play for him but I could see a team like the Raiders or somehow, Miami getting him.

There's just no one else who has made that $100m jump in their prime. Like you said, they usually don't reach free agency.

We'll see what they do. The risk/reward is pretty obvious. It would be a huge get.

[jvan1973]

$15=$17 mil a year for a d-lineman is way too much...we all know that..and we're trying to talk ourselves into thinking its not

you have a bad habit of telling other people what they believe. 15 million is not out of line for Watt or Suh. What did freeney make on his last contract here? The cap was substantially less than what it is now

[Clem-Dog]

you have a bad habit of telling other people what they believe. 15 million is not out of line for Watt or Suh. What did freeney make on his last contract here? The cap was substantially less than what it is now

I was actually thinking about this earlier today. Didn't Freeney make $14 m in his final season with the Colts?

Based off that, Suh would be a steal at 15 per.

[Ohio Colt]

We can't sign Luck to the contract he deserves if we overpay for Suh. Suh isn't worth it . He will hamstring his new team so bad they will lack depth.

[BleedBlu8792]

I was actually thinking about this earlier today. Didn't Freeney make $14 m in his final season with the Colts?

Based off that, Suh would be a steal at 15 per.

Actually 19M if you account for the pro-rated bonus he got on top of that as well.

[camcolts2621]

right or not, can't deny that this has already been pretty exciting and nothing has even happened yet.

 

 

breaks the extreme boredom that is usual this time of year

 

I signed in just to like this comment, I applaud you!