Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[Dustin]

Rumor from @seniorbowl (don't know if true), small group of team exec's saying Patriots will lose 2nd Rd Pick for "deflated ball scandal."

— Russell Lande (@RUSSLANDE)

January 22, 2015

[jvan1973]

https://twitter.com/JoshLiskiewitz/status/558103765539368961

i figured it would be another slap on the wrist.

[IcEWoLF]

So, we already have the common folks and what the media is saying about the ball deflating, but lets ask some professionals that actually play in the NFL!

 

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/deflategate-new-england-patriots-nfl-player-reaction-012115

 

Here is the one that actually is very interesting:

 

Graham Gano:

 

(1/4)When checking the game balls, the refs check the psi indoors. This is frustrating bc the ball loses some pressure in cold weather...

(2/4)... During our home playoff game this year I asked the official if he could check the psi outside again bc the ball felt flat and he...

(3/4)...said he could not. I guess you can't blame the official for that. Rules are rules. Maybe the league will make some changes this...

(4/4)...offseason. Sucks kicking a flat ball tho.

 

Seahawks deflate gate? 

 

^ Obviously the NFL needs to make some changes this offseason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

My question is, why is the NFL so stringent on the air pressure level (13 psi, + or - 0.5 psi) and so lenient on external leather preparation treatment?  They must have a reason. I'd like to know.

 

My speculative reasoning would say that there's not much you can do to the leather on a football that's going to change the way it flies through the air. You can score it up pretty good, and it doesn't really help you. That's what the laces are for. The treatment of the ball just keeps it from slipping out of the QB's hands. I haven't checked the rule, but I would bet that you can't alter the ball, you can't cut it, you can't violate the laces, etc. You're basically just breaking in the leather so that it bends, so the ball can be gripped, so that it's not slippery, etc. 

 

Pressure changes the size of the ball. It's a different thing entirely.

 

It's like refinishing the floor on a basketball court. They want it to be smooth, but not slippery, and there are a bunch of ways you can go about achieving that and then maintaining it. But you can't put the free throw line a couple feet closer to the basket. Loose comparison, but you get what I mean.

[Superman]

Rumor from @seniorbowl (don't know if true), small group of team exec's saying Patriots will lose 2nd Rd Pick for "deflated ball scandal."

— Russell Lande (@RUSSLANDE)

January 22, 2015

 

The earlier rumor was it would be a third round pick.

[jvan1973]

So, we already have the common folks and what the media is saying about the ball deflating, but lets ask some professionals that actually play in the NFL!

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/deflategate-new-england-patriots-nfl-player-reaction-012115

Here is the one that actually is very interesting:

Graham Gano:

(1/4)When checking the game balls, the refs check the psi indoors. This is frustrating bc the ball loses some pressure in cold weather...

(2/4)... During our home playoff game this year I asked the official if he could check the psi outside again bc the ball felt flat and he...

(3/4)...said he could not. I guess you can't blame the official for that. Rules are rules. Maybe the league will make some changes this...

(4/4)...offseason. Sucks kicking a flat ball tho.

Seahawks deflate gate?

^ Obviously the NFL needs to make some changes this offseason.

Weird that none of the colts balls were under inflated

[Buck Showalter]

I'll raise you. I'll take a dollar for every "cheater" word. ;)

I've been taking a shot every time a *'s fan makes an excuse, or deflects the issue...

just kidding, I'd have alcohol poisoning

[crazycolt1]

Irrelevant? Perhaps you should check NFL history in the 50's, 60's and 70's and then you can tell me how the patriots are so different from their peers of yester year.

There have been so many rule changes since the 50s, 60s and 70s it's not the same game. That is why new rules were put into place. To help keep the integrity of the game and to stop cheating. There is nothing you can say or come up with that excuses the patriots. Now go live with the fact that your beloved team don't have a clue on what sportsmanship, integrity and fair play is. You can talk for another hundred years and it changes nothing.

[PrincetonTiger]

This will stick to the Patriots for awhile

For example the Raiders are still known as a dirty team even though Jack Tatum and Friends were in their Heyday in the 70's and 80's

[AndreRison]

It will be harsher than a second round pick. The NFL would have protests if it was just a second round pick.

[PrincetonTiger]

It will be harsher than a second round pick. The NFL would have protests if it was just a second round pick.

agreed

[OffensivelyPC]

I understand some of your points but you are still missing my point about a moral compass. 

 

I am sure that you will agree that the ultimate issue in this case in not necessarily a rule in the rule book or the game manual, but the principle that each team should play on an equal playing field and that one team should not gain an advantage over the other in any shape or form, and certainly not when one team takes a conscious act to get an advantage over the other team.   And if one team takes an action they should be penalized for that act.

 

The rule book covers the specs of the ball and the game manual controls what a team can do with the ball once it has been approved by the refs pregame as it specifically states that the once the balls have left the locker room “no one . . . is allowed to alter the football in any way.”    The prohibition of not altering the balls includes anything done to the balls (i.e. “in any way”), be it reducing/increasing the air pressure in the ball, the addition of stickum to the ball, the heating of the ball, the drying of the ball with a hair dryer, the storing of the ball in a heated drying box, and so on.   Basically you cannot do anything to the balls.

 

The game manual makes sure that both teams are playing with the same balls included but not limited to inflation and effects by ambient conditions.   Just as it might seem unfair for a team to have a slightly underinflated ball so it is unfair that one team has a ball at 70 degree and dry and the other has to play with a 32 degree ball or a 40 degree wet ball.  That’s the point.  The action by the violating party is the same, taking an action to gain an advantage over my opponent.

 

The fact that both teams are violating the rules does not exonerate them anymore than if the colts used an overinflated ball would exonerate the Pats or two guys hitting each other over the head with their helmets, they both should be fined.  In addition when two teams are heating a ball it is unlikely that each team would end up with balls in the exact same condition, which on a second level shows you that you have an uneven playing field as invariably one team will have a ball in better condition than the other, 70 degrees versus 60 degrees as an example.   That is why you leave the ball alone and let the ambient conditions take over.

 

When we step back we understand that heating a ball or changing its inflation is a conscious act to gain an unfair advantage with violates the game manual and also violates the principles of integrity, honor and sportsmanship.   The point you were trying to make, but you seem to have double standard.

 

Regarding prior knowledge, I am sure most teams are aware of heating, inflating and altering the ball is a no no.  So unless there is a specific directive to the Pats to stop the practice of deflating balls, they stand in the same position as the teams that heated the balls in the Minn-Car game.  That is, they both have prior knowledge and frankly possession of the NFL Game Manual, and therefore are on notice of what can and cannot be done with respect to game balls once they leave the locker room.  

 

I understand some of your points but you are still missing my point about a moral compass. 

 

I am sure that you will agree that the ultimate issue in this case in not necessarily a rule in the rule book or the game manual, but the principle that each team should play on an equal playing field and that one team should not gain an advantage over the other in any shape or form, and certainly not when one team takes a conscious act to get an advantage over the other team.   And if one team takes an action they should be penalized for that act.

 

The rule book covers the specs of the ball and the game manual controls what a team can do with the ball once it has been approved by the refs pregame as it specifically states that the once the balls have left the locker room “no one . . . is allowed to alter the football in any way.”    The prohibition of not altering the balls includes anything done to the balls (i.e. “in any way”), be it reducing/increasing the air pressure in the ball, the addition of stickum to the ball, the heating of the ball, the drying of the ball with a hair dryer, the storing of the ball in a heated drying box, and so on.   Basically you cannot do anything to the balls.

 

The game manual makes sure that both teams are playing with the same balls included but not limited to inflation and effects by ambient conditions.   Just as it might seem unfair for a team to have a slightly underinflated ball so it is unfair that one team has a ball at 70 degree and dry and the other has to play with a 32 degree ball or a 40 degree wet ball.  That’s the point.  The action by the violating party is the same, taking an action to gain an advantage over my opponent.

 

The fact that both teams are violating the rules does not exonerate them anymore than if the colts used an overinflated ball would exonerate the Pats or two guys hitting each other over the head with their helmets, they both should be fined.  In addition when two teams are heating a ball it is unlikely that each team would end up with balls in the exact same condition, which on a second level shows you that you have an uneven playing field as invariably one team will have a ball in better condition than the other, 70 degrees versus 60 degrees as an example.   That is why you leave the ball alone and let the ambient conditions take over.

 

When we step back we understand that heating a ball or changing its inflation is a conscious act to gain an unfair advantage with violates the game manual and also violates the principles of integrity, honor and sportsmanship.   The point you were trying to make, but you seem to have double standard.

 

Regarding prior knowledge, I am sure most teams are aware of heating, inflating and altering the ball is a no no.  So unless there is a specific directive to the Pats to stop the practice of deflating balls, they stand in the same position as the teams that heated the balls in the Minn-Car game.  That is, they both have prior knowledge and frankly possession of the NFL Game Manual, and therefore are on notice of what can and cannot be done with respect to game balls once they leave the locker room.  

I asked you to simply point out where in the rule book or manual.  If you can't do that...then you wasted your time typing all of this.

[ReMeDy]

I'm seeing a lot of NFL players bringing up the notion this scandal doesn't matter because the score was so lop-sided. I've lost a lot of faith in all those players if they really think this is all about winners vs. losers. This is about the integrity of the sport.

Having said that, if they're sticking to their guns, I'd like to call to their attention the possibility the Pats also may have used deflated balls against the Ravens (a much closer game), considering the Ravens reportedly tipped off the Colts to the deflation.

[OffensivelyPC]

Its not in the rule book but in the game manual.   My post 1909 covers this point.

 

As for your second point, if we take what we have heard so far from the media, the refs took action at half time and there is no record as of yet that the pats deflated the balls in the second half.  So they basically did stop once they were warned.  That is at halftime the correction was made and the pats did not deflate any balls thereafter.

My post 1947 continues to ask you to cite your sources.  I can point to you where in the rule book it says that the ball has certain weight measurements.  I'm still waiting for you to cite where it says all the crap you just said is considered an "alteration."

[esmort]

Anything less than a 1st + fines + suspension is a joke/slap on the wrist .... The punishment should be more than a team would eagerly give up to win a playoff game/make it to the SB, otherwise it doesn't accomplish its goal, which is to discourage the team from cheating again.

 

Most teams in the league would probably give a 2nd, and a 3rd would be instant to go to their conference championship game, not to mention what they would give to go to a SB.

[buccolts]

How long was the whopper thread?

[ricker182]

Anything less than a 1st + fines + suspension is a joke/slap on the wrist .... The punishment should be more than a team would eagerly give up to win a playoff game/make it to the SB, otherwise it doesn't accomplish its goal, which is to discourage the team from cheating again.

Most teams in the league would probably give a 2nd, and a 3rd would be instant to go to their conference championship game, not to mention what they would give to go to a SB.

It needs to be multi year loss of picks. Not just one season.

Kraft has been in bed with Goodell for so long, I doubt it will be more than a slap on the wrist.

[Shane Bond]

Whats even more pathetic than the NE cheating is we have some here who are trying to defend it.

[Derakynn]

Using the ideal gas law it can be calculated that at a maximum the psi would have changed by 1 ( that includes a margin of error as gases are not ideal, the real figure is about ~.9psi). So no. 

[esmort]

It needs to be multi year loss of picks. Not just one season.

Kraft has been in bed with Goodell for so long, I doubt it will be more than a slap on the wrist.

 

I agree ... but that will never happen ... I think its a long shot they will even get punished as harshly as what I listed. 

[esmort]

I would think that at the minimum ...the Saints, Dallas, Washington and Ravens would all be calling for NE's head.

[JerodMayo51]

Dwayne Allen's response to this:

 

Dwayne Allen        ✔ @Dallen83 Follow

@NFLonFOX not a story. They could have played with soap for balls and beat us. Simply the better team. We have to continue to build! #BTM

 

1:55 AM - 21 Jan 2015

 

 

 

[southwest1]

I'm seeing a lot of NFL players bringing up the notion this scandal doesn't matter because the score was so lop-sided. I've lost a lot of faith in all those players if they really think this is all about winners vs. losers. This is about the integrity of the sport.

Having said that, if they're sticking to their guns, I'd like to call to their attention the possibility the Pats also may have used deflated balls against the Ravens (a much closer game), considering the Ravens reportedly tipped off the Colts to the deflation.

Brian Dawkins, a safety for the Eagles & the Broncos, said the same thing on ESPN 1st Take today. It's a valid point. The rules need to be obeyed across the board regardless of the score because it gives fans confidence in the authenticity of the game meaning no foul play took place. I will follow the bedrock legal principal in America that one is presumed innocent, but I wanna see what the League office finds at the conclusion of their investigation. 

 

I won't hang any franchise out to dry initially, but 11 of 12 deflated footballs evokes an unflattering image of an underground deception tactic for personal gain or sheer incompetence. What's better being viewed as diabolically calculating or dumber than dirt? Quite a snafu to be stuck between either way in the end. 

 

Also, the argument that cold weather can change the air pressure in a ball like a tire on a car only works if say 10 balls are properly inflated vs say 2 that feel lighter than usual. When my dashboard tire pressure light comes on, it means than 1 or 2 tires is low not all 4 tires at once.

[dw49]

 

Dwayne Allen's response to this:

 

Dwayne Allen        ✔ @Dallen83 Follow

@NFLonFOX not a story. They could have played with soap for balls and beat us. Simply the better team. We have to continue to build! #BTM

 

1:55 AM - 21 Jan 2015

 

 

 

 

 

So NE didn't break the rules because they're the better team ? 

[dw49]

So, we already have the common folks and what the media is saying about the ball deflating, but lets ask some professionals that actually play in the NFL!

 

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/deflategate-new-england-patriots-nfl-player-reaction-012115

 

Here is the one that actually is very interesting:

 

Graham Gano:

 

(1/4)When checking the game balls, the refs check the psi indoors. This is frustrating bc the ball loses some pressure in cold weather...

(2/4)... During our home playoff game this year I asked the official if he could check the psi outside again bc the ball felt flat and he...

(3/4)...said he could not. I guess you can't blame the official for that. Rules are rules. Maybe the league will make some changes this...

(4/4)...offseason. Sucks kicking a flat ball tho.

 

Seahawks deflate gate? 

 

^ Obviously the NFL needs to make some changes this offseason.

 

 

Ask him if the weather would deflate 11-12 of the NE balls to exactly 2 LBS under minimum pressure. Not 3 at 1.5 and 2 at 1.75 etc etc .. 11 at 2 lbs under. BTW the 12th one was also under .. just not that exact 2 lbs. Then ask why the other teams 12 balls would be in compliance. 

 

Thanks for the brilliant post though...

[GoColts8818]

I missed the part where since the game wasn't close it some how makes cheating okay...

 

Hardly anyone is suggesting this truly impacted the outcome of the game but just because it didn't doesn't some how make it okay. 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

Luck commented about it after the pb draft http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12208578&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fl.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fes.pn%252F1yL9FeS%26h%3D9AQEgYE_n%26enc%3DAZO2_iLzRxBGeslSOMzJ-8SRIVIA4CJWq0qDoEKt6dJ3XKgoho20eiHqzGfNZxGvdSGSWIAfy0Gu3ohJ8HEXsNiGBem8Q2eynqpfX0-w-yyumw%22%7D&ex_cid=sportscenterFB

[corgi]

 

Dwayne Allen's response to this:

 

Dwayne Allen        ✔ @Dallen83 Follow

@NFLonFOX not a story. They could have played with soap for balls and beat us. Simply the better team. We have to continue to build! #BTM

 

1:55 AM - 21 Jan 2015

 

 

 

 

Good for you. They cheated, they were caught. No one said that's why they won. NO ONE. Everyone said they cheated, they did. Move on.

[corgi]

So, we already have the common folks and what the media is saying about the ball deflating, but lets ask some professionals that actually play in the NFL!

 

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/deflategate-new-england-patriots-nfl-player-reaction-012115

 

Here is the one that actually is very interesting:

 

Graham Gano:

 

(1/4)When checking the game balls, the refs check the psi indoors. This is frustrating bc the ball loses some pressure in cold weather...

(2/4)... During our home playoff game this year I asked the official if he could check the psi outside again bc the ball felt flat and he...

(3/4)...said he could not. I guess you can't blame the official for that. Rules are rules. Maybe the league will make some changes this...

(4/4)...offseason. Sucks kicking a flat ball tho.

 

Seahawks deflate gate? 

 

^ Obviously the NFL needs to make some changes this offseason.

Lets use a select example to make ourselves feel better about our team getting caught red handed, again. They cheated. Got caught, again. Are going to get away with it, again. You are wasting your time and breath with this. Cheating is cheating. No one cares to hear yours or any other Patriots fans wagon full of bull crap.

[House]

Dwayne Allen's response to this:

Dwayne Allen ✔ @Dallen83 Follow

@NFLonFOX not a story. They could have played with soap for balls and beat us. Simply the better team. We have to continue to build! #BTM

1:55 AM - 21 Jan 2015

Solid example of a Colts player demonstrating class.

Not sure how it helps the Pats look like less of scumbags, but still thanks for reminding me why I like my team.

[House]

I'll raise you. I'll take a dollar for every "cheater" word. ;)

I think I could live off of every delusion, and deflection posted in this thread honestly.

[mintor]

The New England Patriots are embroiled in yet another cheating scandal, and some experts believe this one may actually result in them being disqualified from the Super Bowl.

 

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/1775216/new-england-patriots-disqualified-from-super-bowl-momentum-growing-to-kick-patriots-out-after-cheating-scandal/

[House]

Anyone who believes the Pats won't play is more delusional than our Pats friends today.

[southwest1]

 

Dwayne Allen's response to this:

 

Dwayne Allen        ✔ @Dallen83 Follow

@NFLonFOX not a story. They could have played with soap for balls and beat us. Simply the better team. We have to continue to build! #BTM

 

1:55 AM - 21 Jan 2015

 

 

 

 

Yeah, your team kicked my team's caboose in the AFC Championship Game. No argument there my friend. It was tough to watch. I hate when we don't even show up. Sigh. Oh well, back to the drawing board. 

 

Just annihilate the Seahawks in February please. That's all I ask. Part of it, is that I am still ticked off that Manning didn't get his 2nd ring & I'm sick & tired of all this praise RW is being showered with by anybody with a microphone. He needs a healthy dose of humble pie & I don't like the notion that God cares about who wins football games. God had nothing to do with defeating the Packers at all. Zero, zilch, nada. I respect a person's religious beliefs sure, but God doesn't care who wins SBs or Oscar trophies. JMO. 

 

Also, I don't like Pete Carroll who ran away from USC amid allegations & he allegedly looks the other way with player steroid usage. FBI drug enforcement units or even the DEA don't just randomly pick an NFL team out of the blue to look through their luggage at the airport BTW. Pete is a darn good coach though. I cannot deny that fact. 

 

INDY did have a good year & I'm proud that we took another step under the Luck regime. Getting to the Championship Game isn't too shabby. 

[Happy2BeHere]

Not sure if anyone has read this or not but apparently the footballs WERE indeed found to be deflated and check at halftime and then re-inflated to the proper weight. However no indication of the weight after the game has been disclosed yet. Interesting to me that we don't know that yet. However, all indication according to this article says that the ORIGINAL balls were not used in the 2nd half and 12 BACKUP balls were used.

 

"ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report."

 

"Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals. Patriots spokesman Stacey James confirmed that the team had 24 balls total available, WEEI reported."

 

Article here: http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game

 

 

Other interesting excerpts from the article:

 

"One source described the league as "disappointed ... angry ... distraught" after spending considerable time on the findings earlier Tuesday."

 

"The ball bags are not guarded or watched in any way. When an official calls for a new football, a team's designated ball boy will get a new football from the ball bag and give it to the official."

 

"Patriots coach Bill Belichick on Tuesday deferred questions about the investigation, saying reporters should ask league officials."

[-JJ-]

I'm sure much like the Spygate tapes, the balls were immediately disposed of.

Actually they still exist..

[GoColts8818]

The inquisitor isn't a real news source.

[southwest1]

Luck commented about it after the pb draft http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12208578&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fl.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fes.pn%252F1yL9FeS%26h%3D9AQEgYE_n%26enc%3DAZO2_iLzRxBGeslSOMzJ-8SRIVIA4CJWq0qDoEKt6dJ3XKgoho20eiHqzGfNZxGvdSGSWIAfy0Gu3ohJ8HEXsNiGBem8Q2eynqpfX0-w-yyumw%22%7D&ex_cid=sportscenterFB

As much I respect the Patriots, I won't lie. SW1 did burst out laughing when I read this in the article: "It's sort of, the energy is sort of sucked out of you," Luck said. "You do feel deflated."     

 

What makes it hilarious is that Andrew is such a nice guy that despite trying to recover it still left an impression like smoke that hangs in the air after fireworks have just concluded. 

[crazycolt1]

 

Dwayne Allen's response to this:

 

Dwayne Allen        ✔ @Dallen83 Follow

@NFLonFOX not a story. They could have played with soap for balls and beat us. Simply the better team. We have to continue to build! #BTM

 

1:55 AM - 21 Jan 2015

 

 

 

 

That is his response to the loss. Like I said to you before. The Colts-Patriots score has nothing to do with what the Patriots did. Cheating and having no respect for the integrity of the game is what this is about. You don't seen to comprehend that. Your lame comments and omitted picks just prove you have no clue or you are just trolling. I suspect a little of both.

[crazycolt1]

Yeah, your team kicked my team's caboose in the AFC Championship Game. No argument there my friend. It was tough to watch. I hate when we don't even show up. Sigh. Oh well, back to the drawing board. 

 

Just annihilate the Seahawks in February please. That's all I ask. Part of it, is that I am still ticked off that Manning didn't get his 2nd ring & I'm sick & tired of all this praise RW is being showered with by anybody with a microphone. He needs a healthy dose of humble pie & I don't like the notion that God cares about who wins football games. God had nothing to do with defeating the Packers at all. Zero, zilch, nada. I respect a person's religious beliefs sure, but God doesn't care who wins SBs or Oscar trophies. JMO. 

 

Also, I don't like Pete Carroll who ran away from USC amid allegations & he allegedly looks the other way with player steroid usage. FBI drug enforcement units or even the DEA don't just randomly pick an NFL team out of the blue to look through their luggage at the airport BTW. Pete is a darn good coach though. I cannot deny that fact. 

 

INDY did have a good year & I'm proud that we took another step under the Luck regime. Getting to the Championship Game isn't too shabby. 

With all due respect SW I will have to go the other direction on this. With the lack of respect for the game of football I hope the Hawks kick the crap out of the Patriots. Not that I like either one of them anymore than the other but sorry, I cant pull for the Patriots under any scenario. The Patriots have tarnished the integrity and sportsmanship of football. Nothing personal, you know that.