Lions got robbed

[BloodyChamp]

They need to change the rules back in a couple areas, "bang bang plays" and "it's football plays".

The calls haven't gotten worse, the microscope has just gotten bigger over the newer, painfully detailed rules. The PI thing would have never been an issue a fews years ago. It would have just been 1 of those "it's football plays" because...well...it's football. Refs throw flags at the sound of helmets crashing now. Then when they let it slide in the playoffs people scream RIGGED! This Cowboys thing is just this year's example like the Seahawk's illegal contact was last year.

[southwest1]

Hey....   no worries....    I'm not the least bit surprised that you don't believe me....

 

So,  I'll make a peace offering so we can be bestest friend here....

 

The moon landings?     Didn't happen.    All done on Hollywood sound stages!

 

Elvis?     Still alive and living in one of the Dakotas....   I can't remember if it's North or South?

 

And JFK?      Not only was he not assassinated,  but he and Marilyn Monroe (yup, she's still alive too)  are living at the Kennedy compound behind those big tall walls.     They have their own little love nest and are having a great time together even though both are well into their Golden Years!

 

There!     Satisfied?

 

If not.....   there's a conspiracy theorist over on the Stanford fans website that I visit daily.

 

And he think that the Bush family brought down the Twin Towers on 9/11 with battlefield tactical nuclear weapons and that no one was killed at the Newtown elementary school.    All actors involved in a massive government conspiracy to try and take everyone's guns away from them.    Seriously.

 

The two of you should get along famously!    A match made in paranoid Heaven!     

Great stuff NCF! Very entertaining. I always wanted to try a peanut butter & banana sandwich. Oh sure, I could  make it, but I'm sure Mr. Blue Suede Shoes has got it down to science or has some special technique to it. 

 

I still wanna talk to Fidel Castro. The grassy noel sounds like a drinking game to me that went a little too far. Just Kidding!

 

It would be kind of surreal to see Marilyn Monroe sing "Happy Birthday Mr. President" live now though.

 

Can your Stanford conspiracy enthusiast convince the real President Dick Cheney to meet me in Paris so that once he steps off the plane he can be arrested for crimes against humanity too? Seriously though, that would make my year. Enough said. 

 

Let's just say that the former VP is not someone that SW1 idolizes or respects & leave it at that.  

[southwest1]

Well this went off script. Still cracks me up. Tho its more a blooper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcwcjt6qcYs

Well, Joe Theismann we know what's on your brain... Sigmund Freud, the Austrian neurologist who founded psychoanalysis, famously believed that there is no such thing as an accident. To Freud, any human behavior we consider an accident or a mistake really reveals a subconscious motive from the id, the chaotic, buried part of human personality that comprises our basest desires. That’s Freud 101.

 

So Joe, perhaps you have some unresolved, subconscious issues...Food for thought. Only teasing! 

[BloodyChamp]

Hasn't anybody ever seen Men In Black??? Doi...

[NFLfan]

The Lions have only themselves to blame since they only scored six points from quarters two through four.When you can't get Calvin Johnson off, well, you only have yourselves to blame.Detroit still is not a very good team and you know what it comes down to? They have ANOTHER s___y coach. Caldwell sucks. He sucked at Wake Forest. He sucked with the Colts. And he sucks now. Period.

When the Colts played the Cowboys just a couple of weeks ago, the Colts scored 7 points the entire game. Colts lost 42-7.

[amfootball]

Panthers gave the Seahawks a pretty tough game this year too.They have before in the past I believe too. 

 

Not saying Carolina wins. But, lol if they did beat the defending champs......omg.

 

 

Carolina defensively has been a lot better.....it's just the fact they have a crap record I groan so bad.

I would love it if the Panthers won but Newton would have to morph into a really good QB. Not sure that happens vs that D.

[hawkeyes]

http://www.nbcsports.com/?referrer=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/04/referee-pete-morelli-explains-controversial-non-call-in-lions-cowboys/

Explanation of call

 

- I figured they would try to explain it away with non-sense!

 

The defender went THROUGH the receiver with absolutely NO attempt to play the ball - he contacted the receiver prior to the ball arriving - textbook PI!   As for the hand on the facemask - offensive players for some reason have the ability to touch a defenders facemask without penalty - always been that way.

 

Are they planning a riot in Detroit?

 

 

When the Colts played the Cowboys just a couple of weeks ago, the Colts scored 7 points the entire game. Colts lost 42-7.

 

The Colts clearly took that game off - not saying we would beat them easily, but I have no doubt it would be a different game if it meant something.

[Cynjin]

The hand checking was going both ways.  I'm not aware of the rule that states that jersey pulling trumps hands to the face but whatever. The purpose of the pic is to show a possible reason why the flag was picked up. To my understanding, the back judge negated the foul and would've been the one to see this face mask penalty. I have no idea if it was handled exactly right but I'm pretty sure its not a part of some grand conspiracy to "job" the poor lions. The experts here may disagree.

It is absolutely not part of a conspiracy, just incompetency of the Refs. I was not talking about the hand checking but rather the pulling of the jersey by the Dallas defender. It was the head linesman that overruled the back judge, I believe the same ref that Bryant came on the field to argue the call with. By the way, Bryant coming onto the field to argue a call is also a penalty, so there should have been no scenario were the Lions did not get a first down on that series, but that would have required a level of competency that was not available.

[Valpo2004]

I'm an Iowa fan and a fan of Anthony Hitchens because he played there.  But that was a bad call, no doubt about it.  

 

Hard to say the Lions would have won if they made the right call there, but there is certainly the possibility that it changed the result.

[NFLfan]

The Colts clearly took that game off - not saying we would beat them easily, but I have no doubt it would be a different game if it meant something.

I completely disagree. The regular season finale meant nothing and the Colts surely did not take that game off. Dallas looked like Super Bowl champions in that Week 16 game. It's not like you sat all your starters. You did not score until the 4th quarter.

[The Old Crow]

He's been at multiple Cowboy games.

Wow, and he got votes in NJ ?

[-JJ-]

"This whole episode circles back to the proposal last spring from Patriots coach Bill Belichick that all plays – not just the boundary plays, turnovers, possession plays – should be subject to replay challenges"

 

I dunno- would slow the game down more than ever but it is one solution.

[jvan1973]

"This whole episode circles back to the proposal last spring from Patriots coach Bill Belichick that all plays – not just the boundary plays, turnovers, possession plays – should be subject to replay challenges"

I dunno- would slow the game down more than ever but it is one solution.

they should be able to throw a challenge flag on some penalties. But what do you think the reversal rate would be? Unless the reversals came from a different set of officials than those in the game

[Dustin]

"This whole episode circles back to the proposal last spring from Patriots coach Bill Belichick that all plays – not just the boundary plays, turnovers, possession plays – should be subject to replay challenges"

I dunno- would slow the game down more than ever but it is one solution.

Not really. How would it slow it down? Each team still only get a 2 (3) challenges right?

[Dustin]

they should be able to throw a challenge flag on some penalties. But what do you think the reversal rate would be? Unless the reversals came from a different set of officials than those in the game

That's how it is this year. Reviews go to New York and are decided there. I'd imagine it'd be the same.

[-JJ-]

Not really. How would it slow it down? Each team still only get a 2 (3) challenges right?

Yes if they kept the same number of challenges. I just assumed they'd increase that number since they're adding more reviews.

 

But even at the number of challenges now it would work for the really critical PI.

 

A review of the goal line is usually clear. A review of how much the player got touched or interfered with still might pose problems in the refs deciding.

[BOTT]

I understand what you are saying but my problem is they threw the flag. How do they then pick it up ?

Why not? Hell, they can wait 5 minutes for some guy in NYC to review the call and pick up the flag. As long as they get the call right, which I think they did, I'm fine with it.

If I were a Lions fans I would be much more upset with Suh getting mauled by the offensive line and not getting a flag. Some of those were atrocious.

[amfootball]

"This whole episode circles back to the proposal last spring from Patriots coach Bill Belichick that all plays – not just the boundary plays, turnovers, possession plays – should be subject to replay challenges"

 

I dunno- would slow the game down more than ever but it is one solution.

Slower is better than wrong calls. I am all for it. Doubt it will happen though.

[BOTT]

I understand what you are saying but my problem is they threw the flag. How do they then pick it up ?

Why not? Hell, they can wait 5 minutes for some guy in NYC to review the call and pick up the flag. As long as they get the call right, which I think they did, I'm fine with it.

If I were a Lions fans I would be much more upset with Suh getting mauled by the offensive line and not getting a flag. Some of those were atrocious.

- I figured they would try to explain it away with non-sense!

 

The defender went THROUGH the receiver with absolutely NO attempt to play the ball - he contacted the receiver prior to the ball arriving - textbook PI!   As for the hand on the facemask - offensive players for some reason have the ability to touch a defenders facemask without penalty - always been that way.

 

Are they planning a riot in Detroit?

 

 

 

The Colts clearly took that game off - not saying we would beat them easily, but I have no doubt it would be a different game if it meant something.

He made some contact, but he didn't run through him. It reminds me of the pats/panthers game last season.....people wanting pass interference on a poorly thrown ball that wouldn't have been caught.

[amfootball]

Why not? Hell, they can wait 5 minutes for some guy in NYC to review the call and pick up the flag. As long as they get the call right, which I think they did, I'm fine with it.

If I were a Lions fans I would be much more upset with Suh getting mauled by the offensive line and not getting a flag. Some of those were atrocious.

He made some contact, but he didn't run through him. It reminds me of the pats/panthers game last season.....people wanting pass interference on a poorly thrown ball that wouldn't have been caught.

I have seen less contact being called all year as it has been a point of emphasis. And I have seen underthrown balls get the flag moreso than over thrown ones. Both calls and then non-calls were mind boggling IMO.

[PeterBowman]

- I figured they would try to explain it away with non-sense!

 

The defender went THROUGH the receiver with absolutely NO attempt to play the ball - he contacted the receiver prior to the ball arriving - textbook PI!   As for the hand on the facemask - offensive players for some reason have the ability to touch a defenders facemask without penalty - always been that way.

 

Are they planning a riot in Detroit?

 

 

 

The Colts clearly took that game off - not saying we would beat them easily, but I have no doubt it would be a different game if it meant something.

If they rioted in Detroit could you even tell?

[BOTT]

I have seen less contact being called all year as it has been a point of emphasis. And I have seen underthrown balls get the flag moreso than over thrown ones. Both calls and then non-calls were mind boggling IMO.

And they were crap calls too. And we all know playoff rules tend to be different. Witten got mugged earlier in the redzone....no flag.

[GoPats]

This is just like the outrage that took place at the end of the Patriots-Panthers game last year when the refs picked up the flag and ran off the field without explaining anything to anyone. 

 

Oh wait a second... no it's not.  ;)

 

I've seen this replay 10 times now and have reached no conclusion. I've seen players do worse without getting flagged, and vice-versa. I think the timing of it, and how it was handled, reflect poor officiating.

 

One of the inherent aspects of a "conspiracy" is that it's a clandestine thing. Picking up a flag on a nationally televised playoff game, for all the world to see, hardly qualifies. Don't confuse ineptitude with something else. 

[dw49]

Why not? Hell, they can wait 5 minutes for some guy in NYC to review the call and pick up the flag. As long as they get the call right, which I think they did, I'm fine with it.

If I were a Lions fans I would be much more upset with Suh getting mauled by the offensive line and not getting a flag. Some of those were atrocious.

He made some contact, but he didn't run through him. It reminds me of the pats/panthers game last season.....people wanting pass interference on a poorly thrown ball that wouldn't have been caught.

 

 

Here's the problem I had with the play.

 

1.) Pettigrew was blatantly held to begin the play.

 

2) It was PI as he made enough contact without playing the ball to warrant the flag. He made it impossible , while making contact , for Pettigrew to make a play on the ball. To do  that legally , he has to see the ball and be making a play on it. Unless his good eye is in the middle of his butt , he didn't do that. There is nothing in the rules concerning PI that says it needs to be a "well thrown ball" as you mention in the thread. So unless you are saying it was uncatchable , the fact that the pass was crappy is irrelevant .

 

3) They had already marked the penalty off and wee ready to put the ball in ball. They really need to follow some protocol .. I never seen that done before.

 

4) Dez Bryant ran on the field with no helmet. That's 15 yards by league rule. How can they not call that ?

 

That said , I do agree with you when you say the Cowboys were just about tackling Suh in those 4th quarter drives. I also think the Lions have themselves to blame more than the officials. Caldwell was gutless by punting 4th and 1 and they had plenty of opportunities to make a game winning play. I also think it's silly to really argue this call as it's pretty much something you agree with or not. The officials have the right to reverse a call and from there it's purely a matter of agreeing with what took place. Some did and others didn't.

[BOTT]

Here's the problem I had with the play.

 

1.) Pettigrew was blatantly held to begin the play.

 

2) It was PI as he made enough contact without playing the ball to warrant the flag. He made it impossible , while making contact , for Pettigrew to make a play on the ball. To do  that legally , he has to see the ball and be making a play on it. Unless his good eye is in the middle of his butt , he didn't do that. There is nothing in the rules concerning PI that says it needs to be a "well thrown ball" as you mention in the thread. So unless you are saying it was uncatchable , the fact that the pass was crappy is irrelevant .

 

3) They had already marked the penalty off and wee ready to put the ball in ball. They really need to follow some protocol .. I never seen that done before.

 

4) Dez Bryant ran on the field with no helmet. That's 15 yards by league rule. How can they not call that ?

 

That said , I do agree with you when you say the Cowboys were just about tackling Suh in those 4th quarter drives. I also think the Lions have themselves to blame more than the officials. Caldwell was gutless by punting 4th and 1 and they had plenty of opportunities to make a game winning play. I also think it's silly to really argue this call as it's pretty much something you agree with or not. The officials have the right to reverse a call and from there it's purely a matter of agreeing with what took place. Some did and others didn't.

My problem is Stafford hit the defender in the back......nothing the defender did changed the outcome of that horrible pass. If Stafford throws it up high where Pettigrew actually has a play on the ball, fine, but that would have been nothing more than a bailout call imo.

[Dr. Guildo]

"This whole episode circles back to the proposal last spring from Patriots coach Bill Belichick that all plays – not just the boundary plays, turnovers, possession plays – should be subject to replay challenges"

 

I dunno- would slow the game down more than ever but it is one solution.

If the number of challenges the teams get stays the same it won't make the games any longer. This was a bad pick up, and at the least should have been a holding penalty along with a penalty for Dez Bryant being on the field helmetless... but the ref made a huge mistake either way.

[dw49]

My problem is Stafford hit the defender in the back......nothing the defender did changed the outcome of that horrible pass. If Stafford throws it up high where Pettigrew actually has a play on the ball, fine, but that would have been nothing more than a bailout call imo.

 

 

Legit opinion and I have no problem with that.

[Superman]

It's hard for me to be outraged about this call. I'd probably feel different if this happened in a game that I cared about, but the Lions got outscored 17-3 in the second half. I don't buy that this one poorly officiated sequence cost them the game. And it's hard for me to believe that the league decided to mess up a call with almost 9 minutes remaining in order to hand the game to the Cowboys.

 

As many have said, I think this can be summed up as poor officiating. I don't think it decided the game, and I don't think there was any pro-Cowboys agenda. Just poor officiating, which happens from time to time.

[Narcosys]

No they didn't. You can't get robbed when you're holding the other dudes facve mask.

[Narcosys]

If the number of challenges the teams get stays the same it won't make the games any longer. This was a bad pick up, and at the least should have been a holding penalty along with a penalty for Dez Bryant being on the field helmetless... but the ref made a huge mistake either way.

Bryant could have been called but the pickup was right. He couldn't turn his head to play the ball because he was being face masked. That's why they took it back. Did they miss the holding, sure. But didn't miss the PI because there wasn't one.

[IndyBarb]

I don't really care either, however, Dallas got a "huge" break with those "two" missed/reversed calls. 

[Synthetic]

I have to post this cause I think everyone is forgetting a number of things from that game.

 

 

That flag did not make them lose the game.

 

On the next drive, the Lions got 3 penalties, all of which were legit - two holds and a shot to the head. Yes, Dallas scored, but those flags were legit.

 

 

 

The Lions blew that game. You cannot blame it on that one penalty. I think most people are screaming conspiracy out of hatred to the Cowboys, which is understandable. Everyone hates the Cowboys, but the Lions did not get screwed in this game.

 

The game's referee said that the contact was minimal and the only offense was that Hitchens was face guarding

 

Face guarding is a penalty in college. It's not in the NFL.

 

From another angle, it does look like offensive pass interference.

 

Do not sit here and say that the refs rigged that game for the Cowboys cause they didn't. The Lions had a 17 point lead at one point and blew it cause they couldn't finish the job.

 

After Dallas scored, the Lions still had a chance to win that game and couldn't. They got over matched by a team that was trying to come back and win, and they did.

 

 

The Lions defense committed some really silly penalties too that helped Dallas, all of which were legit. The holding calls, the pass interference calls, the blows to the head. That's what really lost them the game, not the refs. Go back to that drive where Dallas took the lead - all three of those penalties on the Lions defense were correct.

 

 

The Lions lost that game on themselves. Not the refs. I don't like Dallas either but you don't win when you turn the ball over in crunch time like that and you certainly don't win when you constantly give up stupid penalties that held the opposing offense.

 

 

Who's to say the Lions actually score after that play? They didn't score another point in the 4th quarter. You don't know. Stafford could have threw a pick right after that, cause they certainly turned the ball over on the next drive when they still had a chance to win it.

 

A team that can't finish the game with a 17 point lead and lets them come back deserves to lose. Don't blame the refs, give Dallas credit. Their defense came up big in the 4th quarter and their offense came up with points that they needed.

 

If Detroit did anything wrong, it was those stupid penalties of blows to the head and all the interference and hold calls. Even early in the game, the Lions got off on a call where they mowed into a defenseless player being the punter, and no call (which both Aikman and Buck made note to "that should've been a flag")

 

Detroit did this all during the season too. They were one of the most penalized teams in the league so it's not shocking that their defense committed dumb penalties in the playoffs to help them lose.

 

This was not "rigged". The Refs weren't paid off by Jerry Jones. The Lions just blew a perfect game they couldn't close. Even if that one call everyone freaks over didn't happen, they probably still wouldn't have put up points cause they couldn't in the 4th quarter.

[ThaCaliColt]

I was pulling for the Lions the whole way. When I saw the 4th and 1 after that penalty was negated, I couldn't believe what I was seeing...What's horrendous is that all Lion fans get is an apology from the league...The outcome is the outcome...The Lions exceeded my expectations yesterday. That being said, I don't see either of those teams going into GB next week and getting a win.

[ViriLudant]

Bryant could have been called but the pickup was right. He couldn't turn his head to play the ball because he was being face masked. That's why they took it back. Did they miss the holding, sure. But didn't miss the PI because there wasn't one.

Illegal contact at least. He clearly hit him well before the ball got there.

At worst, there should have been offsetting penalties and a replay of 3rd down.

[ViriLudant]

The biggest lead the Lions had was 10, not 17.

[dw49]

The biggest lead the Lions had was 10, not 17.

 

How about trying what was really the biggest lead they had ?   14

[Dr. Guildo]

Bryant could have been called but the pickup was right. He couldn't turn his head to play the ball because he was being face masked. That's why they took it back. Did they miss the holding, sure. But didn't miss the PI because there wasn't one.

NFL's head of officiating Dean Blandino admitted they botched the call which should have been a holding penalty at the very least, but there were 4 seperate penalties on the same play... and in my opinion they really should have offset. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/05/dean-blandino-acknowledges-cowboys-got-away-with-one/

[Cynjin]

NFL's head of officiating Dean Blandino admitted they botched the call which should have been a holding penalty at the very least, but there were 4 seperate penalties on the same play... and in my opinion they really should have offset. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/05/dean-blandino-acknowledges-cowboys-got-away-with-one/

 

I am sure the Lions organization feels so much better knowing that the NFL has admitted the refs screwed it up.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Here's the problem I had with the play.

 

1.) Pettigrew was blatantly held to begin the play.

 

I agree.  Point of emphasis this years was grabbing a jersey as a receiver goes by.  It happened.  Defensive holding should have gotten the flag.

 

2) It was PI as he made enough contact without playing the ball to warrant the flag. He made it impossible , while making contact , for Pettigrew to make a play on the ball. To do  that legally , he has to see the ball and be making a play on it. Unless his good eye is in the middle of his butt , he didn't do that. There is nothing in the rules concerning PI that says it needs to be a "well thrown ball" as you mention in the thread. So unless you are saying it was uncatchable , the fact that the pass was crappy is irrelevant .

 

Actually, the fact that the pass was into the upper back of the defender makes all of the difference.  Had the pass been higher, then Pettigrew would have had to elevate to get it.  Since there was a hand on his shoulder  for mere moments, refs could argue the defender impeded to receiver.  Since Pettigrew did not have to elevate, the hand touch would likely not be considered and impeding contact.  So no P.I., but D holding is still there.  I really believe if Stafford threw it higher, or Pettigrew made a decent effort to put on the brakes to come back to the ball (and defender contacts him doing so) PI would have been called.  Also, the touching of the face mask, no true grab or twist, so they typically don't call hands to the face like linemen get.  Besides it could be argued it was incidental becasue receiver was trying to get hands close to where the ball was going to end up. There might be room foe an illegal contact penalty, but ball was in flight... so....   hmmmmm.

 

3) They had already marked the penalty off and wee ready to put the ball in ball. They really need to follow some protocol .. I never seen that done before.

 

Definitely agree. You can throw a flag, and conference then pick it up.  But don't announce the penalty, then pick it up just as you were about to mark it off.

 

4) Dez Bryant ran on the field with no helmet. That's 15 yards by league rule. How can they not call that ?

 

That's in discretion of refs.  Since Dez was not involved in the play, the helmet not on thing is a non issue.  But typically, refs will try to cart off non involved players back to the bench before getting flag happy. But if they threw one, the NFL would indeed stand behind it. As they also will for a ref telling a player get back on the sideline post haste (and they do).

 

That said , I do agree with you when you say the Cowboys were just about tackling Suh in those 4th quarter drives. I also think the Lions have themselves to blame more than the officials. Caldwell was gutless by punting 4th and 1 and they had plenty of opportunities to make a game winning play. I also think it's silly to really argue this call as it's pretty much something you agree with or not. The officials have the right to reverse a call and from there it's purely a matter of agreeing with what took place. Some did and others didn't.

 

My take it should have been defensive holding, 5 yards, first down.  Then see where it goes.  Refs didn't see it that way at all.  Others say PI, I don't think all the ingredients were there to bake that cake.  Same with offensive facemask, not enough there, there.

[crazycolt1]

Of course Jim Caldwell had no emotional reaction to being robbed by the refs.

I guess you didn't hear his interview after the game? And also later in an interview?