Jerrell Freeman ranked #2 as most productive ILB/MLB pass rushing

[TKnight24]

@KBowenColts: Jerrell Freeman No. 2 RT @PFF: Top Middle & Inside Linebackers, Pass Rushing Productivity, 2013:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bo1YY16IgAEDJ7a.png

[kjyb]

glad to her, finally get hes credit as he deserves, he reminds me of lavonte David of the buccaneers  

[Hoosierdome93]

Any Colts fan can tell you that. Glad everyone else knows it now.

[Poster X]

Jerrell Freeman has been a huge pick up for this team... and hopefully he is a Colt forever.

[21isSuperman]

He's among some pretty good company on that list.  I think Freeman gets credit amongst Colts fans.  I'm sure other coaches probably know about him from watching game film

[Burls' Kid's]

It wasn't so long ago, when he was considered "camp fodder" in T.C.

 

.........................

 

Ya' just never know............

 

Hopefully we can find some more of these type of impact players this year.

[BlueShoe]

It wasn't so long ago, when he was considered "camp fodder" in T.C.

 

.........................

 

Ya' just never know............

 

Hopefully we can find some more of these type of impact players this year.

 

Yep. That is what makes the off-season so much fun. We get to witness the cream rise to the top. 

 

It is very early, but I have a good feeling about Swoope and Purifoy. Camp is only 2 months away, and it should be interesting.

[Superman]

Interesting to see someone who works for the team citing a PFF rating.

[BlueShoe]

Interesting to see someone who works for the team citing a PFF rating.

 

That doesn't really surprise me. It would have about 3 or 4 years ago. I was intrigued a few years ago when Grigson said that his staff looks at mock drafts on the internet and uses them as an additional tool. I had never heard a GM give fan viewed mock drafts any credibility before then.

[akcolt]

hopefully Muamba follows in his foot steps..... we will need Freeman and McNary to step up first four weeks.

[NewColtsFan]

I hope sometime before the 2014 season officially starts, that Grigson rewards Freeman for leading the team in tackles his first two years with the team.

 

We signed Freeman to a very cheap deal...  3 years, roughly $1.5 Mill total.   Roughly 400k/500k/600k.    So this is his final year on his rookie deal.

 

I'd like to see us tack on another year, at, say, $1 Mill.  plus give the guy a $1.5 Mill signing bonus so that is guaranteed money.

 

It would bring Freeman's four years with the Colts to $4 Mill...    I think that's win-win for both sides.

 

But, most importantly, it would tell everyone on the team that if you outperform your contract,  the team will still take good care of you and find a way to reward you.    I think that's a very important concept going forward as we're building the team and trying to keep a strong locker-room culture and family atmosphere.

[Superman]

I hope sometime before the 2014 season officially starts, that Grigson rewards Freeman for leading the team in tackles his first two years with the team.

 

We signed Freeman to a very cheap deal...  3 years, roughly $1.5 Mill total.   Roughly 400k/500k/600k.    So this is his final year on his rookie deal.

 

I'd like to see us tack on another year, at, say, $1 Mill.  plus give the guy a $1.5 Mill signing bonus so that is guaranteed money.

 

It would bring Freeman's four years with the Colts to $4 Mill...    I think that's win-win for both sides.

 

But, most importantly, it would tell everyone on the team that if you outperform your contract,  the team will still take good care of you and find a way to reward you.    I think that's a very important concept going forward as we're building the team and trying to keep a strong locker-room culture and family atmosphere.

 

Freeman has received a performance bonus the past two years, more than anyone else on the team. It was nearly $250k in 2014. Just FYI, in case you missed it. http://www.indystar.com/story/colts-insider/2014/03/24/veteran-lb-freeman-earns-248772-from-performance-based-program/6841443/

 

As for his contract, I think he'd do better just finishing his deal and hitting free agency. Or getting a real extension from the team. One year for $1m would be better than what he has now, but when you look at the money that other players are getting in free agency or as they approach free agency, that kind of extension isn't really commensurate with his value. I think he'd easily command $6-8m/year in free agency (which is why I was kind of surprised by D'Qwell Jackson's contract). So, IMO, we should either extend him now, or let him earn a real contract after this season. What you're proposing is kind of an in-between, and that's really what the performance bonus is supposed to do.

 

Also, just a technicality, his signing bonus amount can't be higher than the total value of the new money you're giving him. If you want to give him a $1.5m signing bonus, then it has to be an extra year at $1.5m. And then, you still have to give him at least a veteran minimum salary (although you can advance his salary, if you want). 

 

Anyways, I agree with you that he's outplayed his deal. By quite a bit. Sorry about all the other stuff.

[The Peytonator]

I hope sometime before the 2014 season officially starts, that Grigson rewards Freeman for leading the team in tackles his first two years with the team.

 

We signed Freeman to a very cheap deal...  3 years, roughly $1.5 Mill total.   Roughly 400k/500k/600k.    So this is his final year on his rookie deal.

 

I'd like to see us tack on another year, at, say, $1 Mill.  plus give the guy a $1.5 Mill signing bonus so that is guaranteed money.

 

It would bring Freeman's four years with the Colts to $4 Mill...    I think that's win-win for both sides.

 

But, most importantly, it would tell everyone on the team that if you outperform your contract,  the team will still take good care of you and find a way to reward you.    I think that's a very important concept going forward as we're building the team and trying to keep a strong locker-room culture and family atmosphere.

 

 

I like your thinking and it would be a nice gesture, but he may prefer to play out this year and go into free agency looking for a good 4 or 5M per year type of contract. When you put up numbers like he does, you can make a lot more than 2.5M in a year.

[Superman]

That doesn't really surprise me. It would have about 3 or 4 years ago. I was intrigued a few years ago when Grigson said that his staff looks at mock drafts on the internet and uses them as an additional tool. I had never heard a GM give fan viewed mock drafts any credibility before then.

 

Yeah, I'm sure they are aware of what PFF does, numbers-wise, but they do their own charting as well, so the value isn't what it would be for us fans. But this is the first time I can remember anyone with the team actually acknowledging PFF and their numbers. Bowen isn't a personnel guy, so it doesn't really mean anything, but it caught my attention.

 

What Grigson said about mocks was interesting, also. I liked his reasoning, that the guys doing mocks are getting their information from somewhere. If Peter King thinks the Dolphins prefer Ja'Wuan James to Taylor Lewan because of off the field issues, it's very possible that he's basing his opinion on what he's heard from a source with the Dolphins. Can't take it as gospel, but if you get some extra information here and there, it can only help. Kind of the opposite of some of the things Polian would say, as if someone who isn't running a team can't have access to real information. 

[NewColtsFan]

Freeman has received a performance bonus the past two years, more than anyone else on the team. It was nearly $250k in 2014. Just FYI, in case you missed it. http://www.indystar.com/story/colts-insider/2014/03/24/veteran-lb-freeman-earns-248772-from-performance-based-program/6841443/

 

As for his contract, I think he'd do better just finishing his deal and hitting free agency. Or getting a real extension from the team. One year for $1m would be better than what he has now, but when you look at the money that other players are getting in free agency or as they approach free agency, that kind of extension isn't really commensurate with his value. I think he'd easily command $6-8m/year in free agency (which is why I was kind of surprised by D'Qwell Jackson's contract). So, IMO, we should either extend him now, or let him earn a real contract after this season. What you're proposing is kind of an in-between, and that's really what the performance bonus is supposed to do.

 

Also, just a technicality, his signing bonus amount can't be higher than the total value of the new money you're giving him. If you want to give him a $1.5m signing bonus, then it has to be an extra year at $1.5m. And then, you still have to give him at least a veteran minimum salary (although you can advance his salary, if you want). 

 

Anyways, I agree with you that he's outplayed his deal. By quite a bit. Sorry about all the other stuff.

 

Thanks for the good info.....   I didn't know about Freeman getting the performance bonus.   Good for him!   He's earned it and then some!    And I agree with you and Peytonator that my idea -- while good in theory -- is likely not sweet enough to get Freeman to bite.     I was throwing out some numbers just to stimulate good discussion.

 

Also, I did not know about the signing bonus can't be more than the salary.   OK....   adjust however need be...   I'm not sure Freeman would get a $6-8 Mill per year deal,  but I've been surprised a fair amount the past two years.    My hunch would be more than my offer, but perhaps somewhat less than your numbers.   Again, I'm pulling numbers out of my ***!     I'd just like the idea of rewarding hard work and good performance and making sure guys don't feel taken advantage of.

 

Thanks to you and Peytonator for the good responses!     

[BlueShoe]

Yeah, I'm sure they are aware of what PFF does, numbers-wise, but they do their own charting as well, so the value isn't what it would be for us fans. But this is the first time I can remember anyone with the team actually acknowledging PFF and their numbers. Bowen isn't a personnel guy, so it doesn't really mean anything, but it caught my attention.

 

What Grigson said about mocks was interesting, also. I liked his reasoning, that the guys doing mocks are getting their information from somewhere. If Peter King thinks the Dolphins prefer Ja'Wuan James to Taylor Lewan because of off the field issues, it's very possible that he's basing his opinion on what he's heard from a source with the Dolphins. Can't take it as gospel, but if you get some extra information here and there, it can only help. Kind of the opposite of some of the things Polian would say, as if someone who isn't running a team can't have access to real information. 

 

Absolutely. I am sure the Colts brass and other team organizations have a more detailed breakdown. Overall stats for a game and a season are good for us fans; however, situational stats are more useful. As fans we might see that overall a team passed 60% on second downs, and ran 40% of the time. That is nice to know but not enough data for a team. I am sure NFL organizations break the stats down into down and distance, time remaining, leading or trailing, and so on. 

[Superman]

Thanks for the good info.....   I didn't know about Freeman getting the performance bonus.   Good for him!   He's earned it and then some!    And I agree with you and Peytonator that my idea -- while good in theory -- is likely not sweet enough to get Freeman to bite.     I was throwing out some numbers just to stimulate good discussion.

 

Also, I did not know about the signing bonus can't be more than the salary.   OK....   adjust however need be...   I'm not sure Freeman would get a $6-8 Mill per year deal,  but I've been surprised a fair amount the past two years.    My hunch would be more than my offer, but perhaps somewhat less than your numbers.   Again, I'm pulling numbers out of my ***!     I'd just like the idea of rewarding hard work and good performance and making sure guys don't feel taken advantage of.

 

Thanks to you and Peytonator for the good responses!     

 

Signing bonus can be more than the salary. You meant a salary of $1m, plus a signing bonus of $1.5m, for an extra $2.5m. I didn't read it that way, for whatever reason. That works with the rules; I just didn't get it at first.

 

I still don't think that's enough. I've been as surprised as you are by some of these contracts, but looking at the deals for Sean Lee, Dannell Ellerbe and Donald Butler, I could see Freeman getting $6m/year, easy. Going up to $8m/year is more outrageous, but not outside the realm of possibility. I'm also assuming he has another good year in 2014, playing behind a better defensive line and alongside a better ILB partner. We'll see what March 2015 has in store.

 

There's also the possibility that we work out a new deal for him before then. I think that's probably best case scenario for us.

[crazycolt1]

Signing bonus can be more than the salary. You meant a salary of $1m, plus a signing bonus of $1.5m, for an extra $2.5m. I didn't read it that way, for whatever reason. That works with the rules; I just didn't get it at first.

 

I still don't think that's enough. I've been as surprised as you are by some of these contracts, but looking at the deals for Sean Lee, Dannell Ellerbe and Donald Butler, I could see Freeman getting $6m/year, easy. Going up to $8m/year is more outrageous, but not outside the realm of possibility. I'm also assuming he has another good year in 2014, playing behind a better defensive line and alongside a better ILB partner. We'll see what March 2015 has in store.

 

There's also the possibility that we work out a new deal for him before then. I think that's probably best case scenario for us.

I agree with your last comment for sure. With the other contracts coming up in the next two years I hope Grigs can work a deal out with him that benefits both sides. Grigs has done an excellent job with the management of the cap but it could get real tight over the next couple of years. The rookie contracts work out in the beginning but having a lot of them due all at once makes for some tough choices.

[AntonMcG]

Yeah, I'm sure they are aware of what PFF does, numbers-wise, but they do their own charting as well, so the value isn't what it would be for us fans. But this is the first time I can remember anyone with the team actually acknowledging PFF and their numbers. Bowen isn't a personnel guy, so it doesn't really mean anything, but it caught my attention.

 

What Grigson said about mocks was interesting, also. I liked his reasoning, that the guys doing mocks are getting their information from somewhere. If Peter King thinks the Dolphins prefer Ja'Wuan James to Taylor Lewan because of off the field issues, it's very possible that he's basing his opinion on what he's heard from a source with the Dolphins. Can't take it as gospel, but if you get some extra information here and there, it can only help. Kind of the opposite of some of the things Polian would say, as if someone who isn't running a team can't have access to real information. 

 

The question is, do all teams chart every other team's stats as well? That would require a lot of man power... or would they simply take PFF as a baseline and do further investigation from there when looking at potential FAs etc.? I have heard murmurs in the past that that is the case.

[AntonMcG]

Don't mean to downplay Freeman's contribution, but there was not actually much pass-rushing from him, he just blitzed quite a bit.

 

Blitzing is often more on the play design and the guys up top to make the holes in the pocket than the blitzer themselves... it does require a quick first step though.

[SteelCityColt]

The question is, do all teams chart every other team's stats as well? That would require a lot of man power... or would they simply take PFF as a baseline and do further investigation from there when looking at potential FAs etc.? I have heard murmurs in the past that that is the case.

 

That would seem to be a sensible way of doing things, there is only a finite amount of Jonah Hill's you can have in a back room crunching player performance stats. I'd imagine though that as you say PFF or the like is used as a baseline and any players that interest them get deeper analysis using each team's own metrics. 

[BrentMc11]

Don't mean to downplay Freeman's contribution, but there was not actually much pass-rushing from him, he just blitzed quite a bit.

 

Blitzing is often more on the play design and the guys up top to make the holes in the pocket than the blitzer themselves... it does require a quick first step though.

Not to be rude, but blitz is all ILBs do...and the official definition is....

 

I had to look it up just to see what the true definition was....

 

blitz  (blĭts)

n.

1.

a. A blitzkrieg.

b. A heavy aerial bombardment.

2. An intense campaign: a media blitz focused on young voters.

3. Football A sudden charge upon the quarterback by one or more of the linebackers or defensive backs when the ball is snapped. Also called red-dog, 'rushing' the quarterback.

 

 

 

[AntonMcG]

 

Not to be rude, but blitz is all ILBs do...and the official definition is....

 

I had to look it up just to see what the true definition was....

 

blitz  (blĭts)

n.

1.

a. A blitzkrieg.

b. A heavy aerial bombardment.

2. An intense campaign: a media blitz focused on young voters.

3. Football A sudden charge upon the quarterback by one or more of the linebackers or defensive backs when the ball is snapped. Also called red-dog, 'rushing' the quarterback.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay...

 

A blitz is basically an unblocked run at the QB by an extra defender... it does not require any 'pass-rushing' skill as there is no one there to get past.

[Valpo2004]

Freeman has received a performance bonus the past two years, more than anyone else on the team. It was nearly $250k in 2014. Just FYI, in case you missed it. http://www.indystar.com/story/colts-insider/2014/03/24/veteran-lb-freeman-earns-248772-from-performance-based-program/6841443/

 

As for his contract, I think he'd do better just finishing his deal and hitting free agency. Or getting a real extension from the team. One year for $1m would be better than what he has now, but when you look at the money that other players are getting in free agency or as they approach free agency, that kind of extension isn't really commensurate with his value. I think he'd easily command $6-8m/year in free agency (which is why I was kind of surprised by D'Qwell Jackson's contract). So, IMO, we should either extend him now, or let him earn a real contract after this season. What you're proposing is kind of an in-between, and that's really what the performance bonus is supposed to do.

 

Also, just a technicality, his signing bonus amount can't be higher than the total value of the new money you're giving him. If you want to give him a $1.5m signing bonus, then it has to be an extra year at $1.5m. And then, you still have to give him at least a veteran minimum salary (although you can advance his salary, if you want). 

 

Anyways, I agree with you that he's outplayed his deal. By quite a bit. Sorry about all the other stuff.

 

Hold the phone guys. . . I'm pretty sure Freeman is an RFA after this year.  At least overthecap says he is.  I believe after 3 accrued seasons (meaning ones you actually play in) in the NFL you become an RFA.  

 

That said I would not hesitate to put a 1st round tender on him.  Which is going to be around $3 million.

 

After that we extend him for 3 or 4 years.  We have to be careful though.  He's 28 this season, his RFA season he'll be 29.  We don't want to extend him for very many years after 30.  I would be more apt towards guaranteeing the first year and second year salary with a small signing bonus maybe 1 or 2 million.  That way we can put all of the guaranteed money up front so we don't take much penalty if we have to cut him later on.  

[BrentMc11]

Okay...

 

A blitz is basically an unblocked run at the QB by an extra defender... it does not require any 'pass-rushing' skill as there is no one there to get past.

I was not trying to be a smart.... 

 

Well...it does say ILB rankings....not DE...DT.  As we know some blitzes get picked up and some do not.  Skill and luck required

[AntonMcG]

I was not trying to be a smart.... 

 

Well...it does say ILB rankings....not DE...DT.  As we know some blitzes get picked up and some do not.  Skill and luck required

 

Some do get picked up, often by RBs who are not overly adept at blocking... what I am getting at is ILB blitzing is not as much on the ILB as it is on the play design and the defensive line... of course the ILB still makes a big contribution.

[Valpo2004]

Okay...

 

A blitz is basically an unblocked run at the QB by an extra defender... it does not require any 'pass-rushing' skill as there is no one there to get past.

 

It doesn't necessarily have to be unblocked.  Usually if the RB is smart he see's in coming and picks it up.  

 

However it's good for the defense if it's unblocked.  The flip side is that if it is blocked it's usually a positive for the offense because it leaves some ground open to be attacked through the air.  

[AntonMcG]

It doesn't necessarily have to be unblocked.  Usually if the RB is smart he see's in coming and picks it up.  

 

However it's good for the defense if it's unblocked.  The flip side is that if it is blocked it's usually a positive for the offense because it leaves some ground open to be attacked through the air.  

 

lol, yes I realize these things. I was simply making a point that this ranking is not simply down to Freeman having elite pass-rushing prowess.

[ProblChld32]

So under rated man, certainly was a diamond in the rough. Lets lock him up.

[lollygagger8]

Freeman was definitely a great find. 

 

I think I'll have a drink and toast to Freeman! Now where's my Blanton's.....

 

[DougDew]

No better time to trade him.  Contract ends this year. 

[Dustin]

No better time to trade him.  Contract ends this year. 

 

Nobody is going to trade for a LB with one-year left on his contract. Besides, even if he did have a few years left on his contract, the most we'd get for him is a 4th rounder.

 

The better solution is to 2nd round tender him next off-season for pennies and hope some team bites on that (they probably won't).

[ztboiler]

Hold the phone guys. . . I'm pretty sure Freeman is an RFA after this year.  At least overthecap says he is.  I believe after 3 accrued seasons (meaning ones you actually play in) in the NFL you become an RFA.  

 

That said I would not hesitate to put a 1st round tender on him.  Which is going to be around $3 million.

 

After that we extend him for 3 or 4 years.  We have to be careful though.  He's 28 this season, his RFA season he'll be 29.  We don't want to extend him for very many years after 30.  I would be more apt towards guaranteeing the first year and second year salary with a small signing bonus maybe 1 or 2 million.  That way we can put all of the guaranteed money up front so we don't take much penalty if we have to cut him later on.  

Great catch Valpo.  I was thinking the same.  That we have him under contract for 2 more years assuming the RFA tender, we'll be in a unique spot.  At 29, Freeman will have to do some amazing stuff in the next 2 years to command a multi-year deal with millions guaranteed.  As much as we love the human interest story, the business isn't going to change just because the team appreciates his service at a discount for the first 4 years.  

 

The play is to offer him viable extension at a very team friendly number in the near future - like 4 years/12M new money and a modest guarantee - or execute the RFA tender and let him hit the open market in 2016.  We can write about the human interest story, but Grigson can't factor it into his negotiations.

[AwesomeAustin]

Freeman deserves to be paid more. It sucks for him that he won't reach his 2nd contract til around 30. Hopefully he gets a decent signing bonus that sort of back pays him a bit. I see the Colts extending him to a back loaded contract he will not finish out. We lucked out having him the majority of his prime on a rookie contract.

[Burls' Kid's]

We need to sign him to an appropriate contract and reward him.

[ColtsLegacy]

He obviously has out played his contract but hopefully the front office is smart enough not to go all Gary Brackett on his next contract.

[adamthyst]

PAY THIS MAN! I'm glad we find gems from other places like the CFL and such. Glad that Freeman is on the team and producing like a monster for our D, and that's what we freaking need on the D side along with another pass rush threat.

[Superman]

Hold the phone guys. . . I'm pretty sure Freeman is an RFA after this year.  At least overthecap says he is.  I believe after 3 accrued seasons (meaning ones you actually play in) in the NFL you become an RFA.  

 

That said I would not hesitate to put a 1st round tender on him.  Which is going to be around $3 million.

 

After that we extend him for 3 or 4 years.  We have to be careful though.  He's 28 this season, his RFA season he'll be 29.  We don't want to extend him for very many years after 30.  I would be more apt towards guaranteeing the first year and second year salary with a small signing bonus maybe 1 or 2 million.  That way we can put all of the guaranteed money up front so we don't take much penalty if we have to cut him later on.  

 

Good catch. Unless there's something being missed, we do have an RFA option for him in 2015. Which is good for the team, bad for him. 

[throwing BBZ]

lol, yes I realize these things. I was simply making a point that this ranking is not simply down to Freeman having elite pass-rushing prowess.

 

 You get it Anton. Freeman is pretty good around the line of scrimmage. But wait and see, he will be replaced often by McNary because he IS NOT that good at Blitzing, or in pass coverage for that matter.

 He is a nice player who will FINALLY get to play behind Real NFL D-Lineman, so he should have his best season.

[Valpo2004]

Good catch. Unless there's something being missed, we do have an RFA option for him in 2015. Which is good for the team, bad for him. 

 

True, but I see no reason why we wouldn't give him a 1st round tender.  We could save ourselves a few bucks by going with a lower tender and depending on our right of first refusal.  But honestly it doesn't seem to me that cap space is gonna be a problem next year and I'd honestly rather protect our rights to him with a first round tender which almost guarantees that no one will try to price us out of him.  (And to TBH if someone wanted to give us a first for Freeman I'd probably take it anyways.)