Mark Brunell haha

[Tsarquise]

They are all good young QBs.  The difference between Luck and the rest of the group is his ability to improve.  I don't see Cam Newton or Kap continuing to get better every year...  They are what they are but Luck will continue to get better EVERY season.

 

Luck has a different mentality than almost any other QB.  Brunnell may be right that, at this point, Luck is worse than those guys.... BUT he will become the best of the group and I truly feel he will be the best in the NFL about 3 years from now.

Why do you feel that Luck has the ability and the others have hit a plateau? 

[Beauregarde]

So you are making the Mark Sanchez argument?

And what has newton done to make him more accomplished than Luck? Luck took over a pathetic squad and the team made layoffs his first two years...with one win. The Panthers were mediocre until the defense became one of the best units in the league. And their offense is still below par.

And somehow you put Luck in the same boat as Griffin. Unreal

Wrong. That team was not pathetic and a good QB would have had them in the playoffs instead of 2-14. They were only one year removed from 10-6 and winning the division. The Panthers were a terrible team for a few years before Cam got there.

[BOTT]

Wrong. That team was not pathetic and a good QB would have had them in the playoffs instead of 2-14. They were only one year removed from 10-6 and winning the division. The Panthers were a terrible team for a few years before Cam got there.

The team was terrible and Manning covered many of the flaws.....and then Grigson came in and cleaned house. Even if you thought that was somehow a good team, many of the players were gone by the start of the next season. But by all means, keep trying to educate me.

[Dustin]

Wrong. That team was not pathetic and a good QB would have had them in the playoffs instead of 2-14. They were only one year removed from 10-6 and winning the division. The Panthers were a terrible team for a few years before Cam got there.

 

A) That 2011 team was terrible

 

B) Even if you argue it wasn't, the 2012 roster was missing almost a dozen starters from the 2011 season anyway.

[Jason_]

I would take foles over rg3, cam, kap or Wilson.

[BleedBlu8792]

Sure they do. We don't fall behind early so far that Luck has to force passes.

I know at least 3 of those picks were when the game was within 7 points. On top of that we really have no idea if they would have stopped throwing had the Colts been in the lead. Those defenses still don't negate the deficiencies that Luck has NOW (ie. staring receivers and problems with leading receivers). Some of those throws he made were head-scratchers to say the least, especially the first pick/throw against New England.

[sweetsurrender]

I know at least 3 of those picks were when the game was within 7 points. On top of that we really have no idea if they would have stopped throwing had the Colts been in the lead. Those defenses still don't negate the deficiencies that Luck has NOW (ie. staring receivers and problems with leading receivers). Some of those throws he made were head-scratchers to say the least, especially the first pick/throw against New England.

My thoughts exactly. 

[Dustin]

I know at least 3 of those picks were when the game was within 7 points. 

 

I i know at least 4 of them were when we were down by a ton of, hence why he probably wouldn't have thrown 7 picks if we had a decent defense.

[sweetsurrender]

I i know at least 4 of them were when we were down by a ton of, hence why he probably wouldn't have thrown 7 picks if we had a decent defense.

The picks he did throw led to points by the other team which also contributed to the Colts being down. If he had scored on those possessions or even punted then the Colts are ahead or not down big. 

[Beauregarde]

I would take foles over rg3, cam, kap or Wilson.

Or Luck?

[Dustin]

The picks he did throw led to points by the other team which also contributed to the Colts being down. If he had scored on those possessions or even punted then the Colts are ahead or not down big. 

 

Wow. You just blew my mind. /s

 

Luck threw 2 picks at the end of the first half of the Chiefs games when we were already down 38-10 and another that bounced off of TY's hands when we were down 38-17.

 

Those are the 3 picks he threw in the Chiefs game.

[sweetsurrender]

Wow. You just blew my mind. /s

 

Luck threw 2 picks at the end of the first half of the Chiefs games when we were already down 38-10 and another that bounced off of TY's hands when we were down 38-17.

 

Those are the 3 picks he threw in the Chiefs game.

What is your point? I said his turnovers prevented the Colts from scoring on the drives in which he turned it over and/or led to points by the opponent. And he had a pick when it was 31-10 to start the third quarter (not end of half) which the Chiefs cashed in for 7. So that one was a 14 point swing. Could have been 31-17 instead of 38-10.

[Dustin]

What is your point? I said his turnovers prevented the Colts from scoring on the drives in which he turned it over and/or led to points by the opponent. And he had a pick when it was 31-10 to start the third quarter (not end of half) which the Chiefs cashed in for 7. So that one was a 14 point swing. Could have been 31-17 instead of 38-10.

 

I have neither the desire nor the patience to keep up this conversation. I've already explained my position multiple times.

 

Good day sir.

[sweetsurrender]

I have neither the desire nor the patience to keep up this conversation. I've already explained my position multiple times.

 

Good day sir.

Sure thing. No reason to admit you were wrong about the timing of the picks. Thanks for the debate that you bowed out of when you had no more points to make.

[Dustin]

Sure thing. No reason to admit you were wrong about the timing of the picks. Thanks for the debate that you bowed out of when you had no more points to make.

 

No problem.

[Flash7]

The bottom line is this...If we had a re-draft that included Luck, Wilson, RGIII, Foles, Cousins, Keapernick, Tannehill and Newton, Luck would still be the #1 overall choice. This was evidenced most recently by a poll of who you would choose to start a franchise. Luck and Manning were the top choices--Manning is not included in this debate-- and therefore, Luck was the overwhelming #1 choice.

[ricker182]

I have neither the desire nor the patience to keep up this conversation. I've already explained my position multiple times.

Good day sir.

What is so difficult to understand here? You are forced to make plays being down by a lot. You throw balls you otherwise wouldn't have thrown.

Now that being said, that first INT vs NE was inexcusable.

[ricker182]

The team was terrible and Manning covered many of the flaws.....and then Grigson came in and cleaned house. Even if you thought that was somehow a good team, many of the players were gone by the start of the next season. But by all means, keep trying to educate me.

They won 2 games. I'd say that's a terrible team. Even bad teams find a way to win 4 or 5.

[Cynjin]

Were you the guy who said we should trade Coby Fleener, D. Allen or even Luck for a punter with a ring? I believe that you were.

No actually that was not me. I was not the one that said that because a team wins a Superbowl, that meant all of the players on that team had accomplished more than other players in the league that had not won a Superbowl. That would be your strange logic. Go back and read the post, only this time use something called reading comprehension.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

By that logic, the Colts should trade Coby Fleener, D. Allen or even Luck for a punter with a ring.  Since the punter would have accomplished more.

 

 

No actually that was not me. I was not the one that said that because a team wins a Superbowl, that meant all of the players on that team had accomplished more than other players in the league that had not won a Superbowl. That would be your strange logic. Go back and read the post, only this time use something called reading comprehension.

Huh that's weird. I have it on good authority that you did suggest that. It's not my logic, and I didn't post it, 

[rock8591]

Brunell is a joke, and a QB ala Akili Smith, that should be a 3rd string backup.

[Jason_]

Brunell is a joke, and a QB ala Akili Smith, that should be a 3rd string backup.

Brunel was far better than akili smith ;)

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

He's opinion, fortunately he is wrong!

[Naptown Lifer]

All you buffoons who think these Trent differ clones are better than luck (throwing the whole team game concept out the window like always when talking with colts fans) will eat crow.

Andrew luck is one of the most phenomenal qbs in the league out of everyone!

He was voted as the 2nd best piece to start a franchise with

His clutch factor is ridiculous, he rises to the occasion, he steps up in the fourth quarter, and he wins ball games.

I mean you wanna nit pick the Kansas City game? Who won us that game...god

Sometimes I wonder if the people on this site believe the garbage that comes spewing out of their mouth or are just trying to get a skip baylezs reaction outré people.

Russell Wilson can ride his way to the damn Super Bowl on his pathetic little 159 yards passing games all he wants, but that doesn't mean he can even hold a candle to my boy Andrew

I can't wait till Andrew wins the Super Bowl and craps all over these scrubs

[Naptown Lifer]

Huh that's weird. I have it on good authority that you did suggest that. It's not my logic, and I didn't post it,

Again another failed attempt at trying to seem smart and witty which you consistently fail at

He did not suggest that at all

He said BY YOUR LOGIc we should...

I have it by good authority that he never said that but good try though, I mean I think you really intended to sound smart but got knocked on your butt

[Naptown Lifer]

Cam Newton's team was much worse that Indy when he came on board and it had been for a while. Yes, the other two were drafted into good situations but I don't think you should punish them because they play for teams that decided to develop a defense and an offensive line before drafting their franchise QB. They will be way ahead of Indy for years because of taking that approach. Once Indy starts having to pay Luck the big bucks, they will have more and more trouble fielding a good defense to go along with him. Luck came to a team that was only one year away from being 10-6 and being in the playoffs. I look for Houston to rebound big time this year and winning that division and going 6-0 will not be as easy as it was this year.

Yeah you realize the colts were 2-14 before ole Andrew came along? Also every single expert predicted the colts would lose the majority of games the next couple years and would take a long time to rebuild. Cam newton didn't make the playoffs until he had a top 5 defense. Luck made the playoff both years and has a playoff win that cam does not. Not to mention his obvious eye test better play stats etc but you don't watch football sp the whole common sense eye test things is pretty much out the window with you

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Again another failed attempt at trying to seem smart and witty which you consistently fail at

He did not suggest that at all

He said BY YOUR LOGIc we should...

I have it by good authority that he never said that but good try though, I mean I think you really intended to sound smart but got knocked on your butt

so in conclusion he did in fact say it? That was not my logic at all but rather some abomination that your friend took out of what I said. 

[sweetsurrender]

Yeah you realize the colts were 2-14 before ole Andrew came along? Also every single expert predicted the colts would lose the majority of games the next couple years and would take a long time to rebuild. Cam newton didn't make the playoffs until he had a top 5 defense. Luck made the playoff both years and has a playoff win that cam does not. Not to mention his obvious eye test better play stats etc but you don't watch football sp the whole common sense eye test things is pretty much out the window with you

Do you realize the Panthers were also 2-14 before Newton came aboard? The Panthers record prior to Newton were as follows:

2-14 (2010)

8-8 (2009)

12-4 (2008)

7-9 (2007)

8-8 (2006)

 

That is one winning season in five seasons prior to Newton and one playoff appearance.

 

The Colts records prior to Luck were as follows:

2-14 (2001)

10-6 (2010)

14-2 (2009)

12-4 (2008)

14-2 (2007)

 

Playoffs every year except for one year. Newton, by far inherited the worse team.

 

That being said, Newton has been steadily progressing year after year from 6 wins to 7 wins to 12 wins this year and the second seed. And at the end of the 2012 season Newton won his last four games straight so in in his last 20 games started he is 16-4. Very impressive.

 

I do think if you want to use the eye test, I see more intangibles from Luck and more leadership but this past year Newton took huge steps froward in his game and in leadership. From a physical standpoint, Newton is the better QB - he is bigger and faster and has the bigger arm. But I think Luck at this point is more cerebral is certainly able to play better in the big moments. 

 

At this point, I am not sure who has the better upside as I see both progressing. I do think the Colts FO has shown a history of making the right decisions to filed a competitive team year after year. The Panthers FO has not, at least not to the same level as the Colts. So, in that regard, Luck has the upper hand.

[IndyTrav]

"Experts" and writers are always dumb, until they say something you agree with......

 

Is Luck better than those guys? Probably. But its a razor thin margin for everyone but Kaep. And even that margin is small. 

 

Luck has benefits that those guys do not, and those guys have benefits that Luck does not....Luck has had an OC who is willing to air it out, and an OC that he worked with in college. Luck has better weapons on the outside, plays in a softer division, and plays over half his games indoors....The other guys have better Defenses, and in Sea/SF case, better OL and better coaching....

 

But to pretend these guys are scrubs, and are only good because of the teams they are on is ridiculous, and that somehow Luck towers over them in superiority is just downright dumb.  

 

I get that we are Colts fans, and Luck is our guy. But a QB who just won a SB, a Qb who has been to 3 NFC Championship games/1SB, and a QB who has put up some pretty nice stats on a crappy offensive team deserve a little bit of credit too, and maybe, just maybe they could be better than Luck. *gasp*...

 

We just cant sit here and say "Well they have better TEAMS" and completely ignore our 2 11-5 seasons, in order to prop up Luck. "well Luck is the reason we are 11-5!!!", but yet that same logic doesn't apply to Cam/Kaep/Wilson, those teams were so good that they dont need good QB play? Or maybe, just maybe, the good QB play is a reason those teams are so good? Just a thought.....

 

As for Cam v Luck. I think this is on track to be the next Brady v Manning....Those ignoring Cams stellar play are really missing out. He's a heck of a QB, and he is on a fantastic trajectory, on a team that offensively I would consider one of the worst in the league. Over his career the guy is avg 60% 4454yds 30TDs, 20TOs, and he's only getting better. (Luck: 57%, 4414yds,27TDs, 21TOs).

[Beauregarde]

Yeah you realize the colts were 2-14 before ole Andrew came along? Also every single expert predicted the colts would lose the majority of games the next couple years and would take a long time to rebuild. Cam newton didn't make the playoffs until he had a top 5 defense. Luck made the playoff both years and has a playoff win that cam does not. Not to mention his obvious eye test better play stats etc but you don't watch football sp the whole common sense eye test things is pretty much out the window with you

Of course I watch football and I think Cam Newton is one of the best three young QBs with Kaep and Wilson. The Colts were 2-14 with a team that had won in double figures for the previous 12 years. Peyton didn't play and there was no backup QB. Peyton would have won 10+ games with that team and he would have had them in the playoffs. Yes, they came around more quickly than anyone thought. They are still rebuilding and will be for a long time. Newton plays in the much tougher NFC and his conference in light years ahead of the AFC South. The worst division in football is the reason the Colts are making the playoffs and winning 11 games. They will do it again this year because they probably go 6-0 in the conference. There are some conferences where they would not go 3-3. They are playing great and they are way ahead of schedule but I still see them signing free agents to fill big holes and it will be a while before they are a real Super Bowl threat. I'll just enjoy them for what they are and look for signs of improvements from the team and from the coach.

[Dustin]

Of course I watch football and I think Cam Newton is one of the best three young QBs with Kaep and Wilson. The Colts were 2-14 with a team that had won in double figures for the previous 12 years. Peyton didn't play and there was no backup QB. Peyton would have won 10+ games with that team and he would have had them in the playoffs. Yes, they came around more quickly than anyone thought. They are still rebuilding and will be for a long time. Newton plays in the much tougher NFC and his conference in light years ahead of the AFC South. The worst division in football is the reason the Colts are making the playoffs and winning 11 games. They will do it again this year because they probably go 6-0 in the conference. There are some conferences where they would not go 3-3. They are playing great and they are way ahead of schedule but I still see them signing free agents to fill big holes and it will be a while before they are a real Super Bowl threat. I'll just enjoy them for what they are and look for signs of improvements from the team and from the coach.

 

Now I know why your posting style looked familiar...

[Jay Kirk]

He thinks Russel Wilson Colin Kapernick and Cam Newton are better QBs then Luck

Lol must be good stuff hes smoking ! :cool: Panama Red ?

[Beauregarde]

Now I know why your posting style looked familiar...

I don't have any style. I post what I think. That is all, it is just my opinion.

[Beauregarde]

Lol must be good stuff hes smoking ! :cool: Panama Red ?

 

I am not smoking anything. I just read outside of Indianapolis. Luck may move into that top three category soon but right now, he has a coach who has him on a tight leash.

[Beauregarde]

The bottom line is this...If we had a re-draft that included Luck, Wilson, RGIII, Foles, Cousins, Keapernick, Tannehill and Newton, Luck would still be the #1 overall choice. This was evidenced most recently by a poll of who you would choose to start a franchise. Luck and Manning were the top choices--Manning is not included in this debate-- and therefore, Luck was the overwhelming #1 choice.

Where is that poll? I would like to see it.

[Beauregarde]

Now I know why your posting style looked familiar...

I really don't understand why you say that. I am very positive about the team and what it has accomplished. Just so you get the right message, I think Grigson has done a great job overall but that doesn't mean that I like last year's draft or the trade for Richardson (even though I admire the guts it took to make it). I didn't like getting DHB but it was a cheap attempt with very little risk. I just didn't think that switching QBs was going to improve his hands. I think the team is playing great and can rise up and beat anyone but also can lose to some teams it shouldn't too. I think Andrew Luck is a star. He is not a super star yet or even in the top ten but he is the real deal and he will continue to get better. I think Pagano is the weakest link in the entire Colts chain. You have a world class QB but you have him on a leash and do not allow him to make the big plays he is capable of making. If I wanted to watch three yards and a cloud of dust on most plays, I would play old video of the Woody Hayes Ohio State teams. I am a big fan and like most of us, I like to dream about ways to improve the team. That doesn't make me right, I am no expert, just a fan like most people here.

[BOTT]

Do you realize the Panthers were also 2-14 before Newton came aboard? The Panthers record prior to Newton were as follows:

2-14 (2010)

8-8 (2009)

12-4 (2008)

7-9 (2007)

8-8 (2006)

 

That is one winning season in five seasons prior to Newton and one playoff appearance.

 

The Colts records prior to Luck were as follows:

2-14 (2001)

10-6 (2010)

14-2 (2009)

12-4 (2008)

14-2 (2007)

 

Playoffs every year except for one year. Newton, by far inherited the worse team.

 

That being said, Newton has been steadily progressing year after year from 6 wins to 7 wins to 12 wins this year and the second seed. And at the end of the 2012 season Newton won his last four games straight so in in his last 20 games started he is 16-4. Very impressive.

 

I do think if you want to use the eye test, I see more intangibles from Luck and more leadership but this past year Newton took huge steps froward in his game and in leadership. From a physical standpoint, Newton is the better QB - he is bigger and faster and has the bigger arm. But I think Luck at this point is more cerebral is certainly able to play better in the big moments. 

 

At this point, I am not sure who has the better upside as I see both progressing. I do think the Colts FO has shown a history of making the right decisions to filed a competitive team year after year. The Panthers FO has not, at least not to the same level as the Colts. So, in that regard, Luck has the upper hand.

What the Colts did a few years prior with a vastly different roster means very little. There was a reason the Colts were picked to finish in the bottom three Luck's first year. If you think Newton inherited a vastly worse roster than Luck you don't know the Colts very well.

[BOTT]

I don't have any style. I post what I think. That is all, it is just my opinion.

If uninformed is a style, you definitely have one.....

[BrentMc11]

Lol must be good stuff hes smoking ! :cool: Panama Red ?

He got weed...he got weed!  Insert Chris Rock!  

[Naptown Lifer]

so in conclusion he did in fact say it? That was not my logic at all but rather some abomination that your friend took out of what I said. 

i dont think anyone on here is stupid enough to argue what someone posted when its clearly up for all to see

 

i know youre goal is to make me appear to be that person 

 

the conclusion is NOT "ernnn a durrr so he did say it huh???!!1?" because that wouldnt be at all relevant to the thesis of my arguement 

 

the conclusion = just because you say something doesnt mean you agree with it, are suggesting it, or endorse it in any way

 

example (so you can understand) :

 

racist person: "I hate jews, theyre all the same and my boss is one and i want to kill him" (NOT A PERSONAL BELIEF At all)

thought provoking person: "So by your logic we should kill them all and torture them to death like adolf,  including the women and children"

 

person b is not suggestng at ALL that racist person is right hes pointing out the faulty logic in his statement

 

this is exactly what you did in different context

 

you: "oh so youre suggesting we kill people person b omg youre evil!' 

 

its okay a lot of people like to do what you just did. When they lose an argument act like the whole time they were arguing something else. At first you were saying "oh so youre suggesting we trade luck for punter??" now youre saying "did he not SAY IT"