Stephen Holder reports Toler to have surgery

[GoColts8818]

Again on twitter says it's for a torn groin. Unless he did it in the playoff game he should have done this from the start.

[21isSuperman]

Does he return to the team next year?  His contract, according to Rotoworld, is Signed a three-year, $14.25 million contract. The deal contains $5 million guaranteed -- a $1 million signing bonus and all of Toler's first-year base salary. Another $750,000 is available through incentives. 2014: $4.5 million, 2015: $4.75 million, 2016: Free Agent.  I'm not sure how much we would save by cutting him.  Perhaps we can restructure?  I think he has potential, but hasn't shown that he can stay healthy

[lollygagger8]

Does he return to the team next year?  His contract, according to Rotoworld, is Signed a three-year, $14.25 million contract. The deal contains $5 million guaranteed -- a $1 million signing bonus and all of Toler's first-year base salary. Another $750,000 is available through incentives. 2014: $4.5 million, 2015: $4.75 million, 2016: Free Agent.  I'm not sure how much we would save by cutting him.  Perhaps we can restructure?  I think he has potential, but hasn't shown that he can stay healthy

 

I really think we should eat whatever it costs, and PLEASE for the love get rid of Toler. He is somehow a worse version of Powers. 

[dgambill]

I really think we should eat whatever it costs, and PLEASE for the love get rid of Toler. He is somehow a worse version of Powers. 

I don't think he is worse than Powers. When he played healthy he was rock solid. That said he wasn't healthy much. We've seen the potential of our corners when all healthy and playing...with him and Smith and Butler in the nickel and even Gordy at times they can be very good....but it is amazing how banged up corners here in Indy get...

 

The bad part of signing a guy coming off knee injury is that during their recovery etc they tend to to put pressure on other parts of their leg or on their good leg (unconsciously or even consciously) and it causes other injuries for them...its scary to see once a torn knee how many hamstring, groin, and other leg injuries occur right after. I just prefer to get a guy a full year removed knowing he has shown he can come back healthy before jumping after him....just so I know he recovers the right way. I think we keep Toler one more year..just because I think we try to keep as much of this team together as possible to build on the success.

[BrentMc11]

I really think we should eat whatever it costs, and PLEASE for the love get rid of Toler. He is somehow a worse version of Powers. 

I am for letting Toler go.  I do think when we had Toler, Landry, Bethea and Davis out there HEALTHY, the looked very strong allowing Butler to play the nickel...

 

Maybe we need Jacob Lacy back......Maybe not 

[lollygagger8]

I don't think he is worse than Powers. When he played healthy he was rock solid. That said he wasn't healthy much. We've seen the potential of our corners when all healthy and playing...with him and Smith and Butler in the nickel and even Gordy at times they can be very good....but it is amazing how banged up corners here in Indy get...

 

The bad part of signing a guy coming off knee injury is that during their recovery etc they tend to to put pressure on other parts of their leg or on their good leg (unconsciously or even consciously) and it causes other injuries for them...its scary to see once a torn knee how many hamstring, groin, and other leg injuries occur right after. I just prefer to get a guy a full year removed knowing he has shown he can come back healthy before jumping after him....just so I know he recovers the right way. I think we keep Toler one more year..just because I think we try to keep as much of this team together as possible to build on the success.

 

Toler was actually pretty inconsistent when he played.

 

Powers was decent when he wasn't hurt, which was often. (Until he miraculously is healthy after he leaves Indy?)  

Toler has been hurt more than even Powers plus we paid him more. 

 

Powers 3 yr/ $10.5M - played 16 games

Toler 3 yr/ $15M - played 9 games 

 

Besides Josh Gordy (1 yr/ $555k) looked like a carbon copy of Toler, but played pretty decent.  

[Bluefire4]

Who would we get if we cut Toler? We're not signing a CB in FA with all the needs we have..

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Does he return to the team next year?  His contract, according to Rotoworld, is Signed a three-year, $14.25 million contract. The deal contains $5 million guaranteed -- a $1 million signing bonus and all of Toler's first-year base salary. Another $750,000 is available through incentives. 2014: $4.5 million, 2015: $4.75 million, 2016: Free Agent.  I'm not sure how much we would save by cutting him.  Perhaps we can restructure?  I think he has potential, but hasn't shown that he can stay healthy

I like the guy I wouldn't cut him but he was injury prone in ARZ too. I don't think you can say he is your #2 & be confident he can get threw a season. WE IMO need to have an insurance plan & draft a young guy!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Toler was actually pretty inconsistent when he played.

 

Powers was decent when he wasn't hurt, which was often. (Until he miraculously is healthy after he leaves Indy?)  

Toler has been hurt more than even Powers plus we paid him more. 

 

Powers 3 yr/ $10.5M - played 16 games

Toler 3 yr/ $15M - played 9 games 

 

Besides Josh Gordy (1 yr/ $555k) looked like a carbon copy of Toler, but played pretty decent.  

Gordy played OK he is NOT AS GOOD IMO as Toler.

[lollygagger8]

Gordy played OK he is NOT AS GOOD IMO as Toler.

 

Gordy played ok, you are right. Toler is just ok, but hurt all the time. Why not keep someone for less but produces the same thing? 

 

That's the American Way unfortunately. 

[dw49]

I don't think he is worse than Powers. When he played healthy he was rock solid. That said he wasn't healthy much. We've seen the potential of our corners when all healthy and playing...with him and Smith and Butler in the nickel and even Gordy at times they can be very good....but it is amazing how banged up corners here in Indy get...

 

The bad part of signing a guy coming off knee injury is that during their recovery etc they tend to to put pressure on other parts of their leg or on their good leg (unconsciously or even consciously) and it causes other injuries for them...its scary to see once a torn knee how many hamstring, groin, and other leg injuries occur right after. I just prefer to get a guy a full year removed knowing he has shown he can come back healthy before jumping after him....just so I know he recovers the right way. I think we keep Toler one more year..just because I think we try to keep as much of this team together as possible to build on the success.

 

 

Just in case you don't realize.. the knee injury was in 2011. Then he had hamstring issues in 2012. So he was two years removed from the ACL injury when we signed him.

[dw49]

I really think we should eat whatever it costs, and PLEASE for the love get rid of Toler. He is somehow a worse version of Powers. 

 Not a whole lot to "eat" if we let him go. Out of the 5 million he was guaranteed , 4.333 mill was taken care of in 2013. All that's left to eat is 2/3rds of his mill $ signing bonus. So that would be a cap hit of $666,000. So break it down a bit further , his cap hit is around 4.8 mill for 2014 . If cut , the colts would have an additional 4.1 in cap space.

 

 

That said , I think the Colts should go with him another year if they were happy with his play. If they agreed with many on this board , why would you want to keep him at that # ?

 

Me... I am slightly tilted to giving him another year.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Gordy played ok, you are right. Toler is just ok, but hurt all the time. Why not keep someone for less but produces the same thing? 

 

That's the American Way unfortunately. 

I think Tolar is better than OK & my guess is Grigson thinks so to thats why he paid him. I do have concerns about the guys ability to stay healthy though. I think they will need an insurance policy at CB someone IMO better than Gordy.

[Andy]

Cutting him saves 4.2M, but the question is, who would they replace him with. I'd like to see them go for someone worth getting if they have to cut him.

 

He's one of my favorite defensive players in the whole league, and have liked him a lot ever since he was in high school. I would hate to see him go, but if they can get better, then I can't argue. 

[dgambill]

Just in case you don't realize.. the knee injury was in 2011. Then he had hamstring issues in 2012. So he was two years removed from the ACL injury when we signed him.

Gotcha...couldn't remember..guess they were hoping he was all healed up...if that is the case it might be more likely we part ways with the kid (of course cap willing).

[dgambill]

Cutting him saves 4.2M, but the question is, who would they replace him with. I'd like to see them go for someone worth getting if they have to cut him.

 

He's one of my favorite defensive players in the whole league, and have liked him a lot ever since he was in high school. I would hate to see him go, but if they can get better, then I can't argue. 

And obviously we won't have a draft pick high enough to replace him. Seeing the cap savings...and what we would have to pay Davis considering his play vs Tolers and what we gave Toler...we see the market for Davis will be higher than 5 mill per yer easy so I think you move on...use some of the savings to pay Davis and look at other veterens to fill in and keep grooming Gordy and let Butler play the nickel.

[Andy]

And obviously we won't have a draft pick high enough to replace him. Seeing the cap savings...and what we would have to pay Davis considering his play vs Tolers and what we gave Toler...we see the market for Davis will be higher than 5 mill per yer easy so I think you move on...use some of the savings to pay Davis and look at other veterens to fill in and keep grooming Gordy and let Butler play the nickel.

Crap, if only there were a period before the draft where we could sign players that were good or great on other teams...

[mattceinicram]

I think Toler was definitely solid for the first part of the season, he was just hurt to much.  So,  I think it's a risk keeping him.  

[dgambill]

Crap, if only there were a period before the draft where we could sign players that were good or great on other teams...

Lol..funny! I'm not sure where your going with that but Davis we have invested a lot in 2nd rd pick last year and undoubtedly would like to keep that investment but it will be hard to replace eithers ability in FA with the money we have and address bigger areas of concern. Toler I think we could replace...Davis a solid #1 corner would be likely much harder....unless we could get Talib lol.

[bavanlan]

Does he return to the team next year?  His contract, according to Rotoworld, is Signed a three-year, $14.25 million contract. The deal contains $5 million guaranteed -- a $1 million signing bonus and all of Toler's first-year base salary. Another $750,000 is available through incentives. 2014: $4.5 million, 2015: $4.75 million, 2016: Free Agent.  I'm not sure how much we would save by cutting him.  Perhaps we can restructure?  I think he has potential, but hasn't shown that he can stay healthy

 

He's gone.  Only thing left to be paid is $666,667, so we'd save a little less that $4M by releasing him (and could make it $4.16666M if we wanted.

[Dark Superman]

Toler is better suited for the slot.

We need a guy who can come in from day one and play outside of Davis.

But who's going to pay $4 million a year for a nickel corner..

This is going to be a tough decision regardless.

[Dark Superman]

Again on twitter says it's for a torn groin. Unless he did it in the playoff game he should have done this from the start.

I honestly don't think he was ever healthy.

He should of had the surgery when he was first diagnosed with the groin injury..

[Andy]

Lol..funny! I'm not sure where your going with that but Davis we have invested a lot in 2nd rd pick last year and undoubtedly would like to keep that investment but it will be hard to replace eithers ability in FA with the money we have and address bigger areas of concern. Toler I think we could replace...Davis a solid #1 corner would be likely much harder....unless we could get Talib lol.

I never said to replace Davis. I really hope they keep him and I expect they will.

Toler is the one who could be replaced but odds are he stays.

[1959Colts]

When Toler did play he was terrible in coverage and even worse at tackling. He should be let go.

[Le Neon]

When do they need to cut him to realize savings? Can we wait to cut him until after the draft/free agency when we have a better idea of his replacement?

[BlueCollarColts]

I really think we should eat whatever it costs, and PLEASE for the love get rid of Toler. He is somehow a worse version of Powers. 

He was actually better than Powers as far as play on the field, he just couldn't stay healthy

[COLTS449]

I think Grigs will give him another chance, but will also draft a corner high. It would be nice if we could cut him and sign Shields.

[Maniq]

Pre-injury he was really good. No need at all to bash him. He's aggressive and both CBs are good press corners.

...remember. CB Davis was injured last season. He panned out (mostly) this year. Really good even.

Patience... I'll expect people to praise him next year. He can be that good.

[GoColts8818]

I honestly don't think he was ever healthy.

He should of had the surgery when he was first diagnosed with the groin injury..

Yep, especially when I read it said it would keep him out four weeks if he had had the surgery. 

[John Waylon]

Lets hope the repaired his broken coverage with the surgery.

[Gavin]

Toler is likely gone

[Iancolts]

Hopefully we can get grimes opposite Davis

[jbaron04]

Cutting him saves 4.2M, but the question is, who would they replace him with. I'd like to see them go for someone worth getting if they have to cut him.

He's one of my favorite defensive players in the whole league, and have liked him a lot ever since he was in high school. I would hate to see him go, but if they can get better, then I can't argue.

dr

[IUfan_Charlie]

Bye Bye Greg, you are an overpaid and injury backup caliber CB. Won't miss him getting thrown at every week. 

[bap1331]

I like Toler but he's not consistent. He missed half the season for gosh sakes. And when he did play, he showed up every other game. We can find someone better and less injury prone

[Deathiltis]

Hopefully the FO has enough sense to cut Toler and go after a more durable consistent CB in free agency. Sadly, no offense to the front office they know more than me, I don't see them cutting Toler.

[Dark Superman]

Yep, especially when I read it said it would keep him out four weeks if he had had the surgery.

Agreed.

[Valpo2004]

I really think we should eat whatever it costs, and PLEASE for the love get rid of Toler. He is somehow a worse version of Powers. 

 

It doesn't cost that much at all.  Most of this guaranteed money was for the first year of his deal and has already been paid.

 

He's just 666,667 in dead money now.  Which means we save 4 million in cap space to cut him.

 

If he had a higher dead money number I might be against cutting him, but his dead money is so low that we should do it and replace him with someone who can stay on the field.

 

Even if we get someone who wants a million or 2 more then Toler is getting, it's worth it as long as they can stay on the field.

 

My view is that he's got so little guaranteed money and there are a lot of good CB's both in FA and in the draft that it makes all the sense in the world to get rid of him.  You can get a lot better player for that 4 million.

[Valpo2004]

When do they need to cut him to realize savings? Can we wait to cut him until after the draft/free agency when we have a better idea of his replacement?

 

I think we can cut him any time before June 1.  So that's after both FA and the draft.  

 

I have heard somewhere though that vets have their salary for the year guaranteed at some point  I don't know if that's true or not or how that works.  If someone could explain that to me it would be helpful.  

[lollygagger8]

It doesn't cost that much at all.  Most of this guaranteed money was for the first year of his deal and has already been paid.

 

He's just 666,667 in dead money now.  Which means we save 4 million in cap space to cut him.

 

If he had a higher dead money number I might be against cutting him, but his dead money is so low that we should do it and replace him with someone who can stay on the field.

 

Even if we get someone who wants a million or 2 more then Toler is getting, it's worth it as long as they can stay on the field.

 

My view is that he's got so little guaranteed money and there are a lot of good CB's both in FA and in the draft that it makes all the sense in the world to get rid of him.  You can get a lot better player for that 4 million.

 

Boom! Nailed it