Adam Schefter Thinks We Should Trade (Merge)

[Coltsagent]

With all this talk of this offesive is a "check me with" offensive and the receivers have choice routes and Wayne himself said it took him 3 years to learn it...why do you get rid of his knowledge? How many 1000 yard seasons in a row now? No way it happens, they rode Harrison to the wheels feel off, Wayne still has some tread left.

[JoKeR]

Gotta remember these guys are still playing at a high level and their skills haven't really slipped. Someone mentioned the Colts have a problem holding on to players. I disagree, Colts have have a problem holding on to players who don't produce.

[Jaric]

Of course you would not get anything for Lacey & Johnson, that was not the point. I dont understand the logic behind replacing production with potential. Why do you replace someone who is performing at a high level with a draft pick that MAY perform? I dont get it, Mathis and Wayne are not trending down.

It's not so much trending down, it's that they're both free agents next year, we likely won't be able to afford them, and even if we could, they're both getting older to the point where production will likely drop (and most likely when they are under their big new contract)

However, we probably don't have the money to sign them anyway. By trading them now we not only get compensation, but we also don't end up in a situation where we end up overpaying a declining player.

It depends on the compensation, but overall I'm for this. It shows long term thinking which is good to see.

[Jaric]

With all this talk of this offesive is a "check me with" offensive and the receivers have choice routes and Wayne himself said it took him 3 years to learn it...why do you get rid of his knowledge? How many 1000 yard seasons in a row now? No way it happens, they rode Harrison to the wheels feel off, Wayne still has some tread left.

It's far better to get rid of an aging player one year early rather than one year too late.

And yes, we held on to Marvin too long. Successful people learn from their mistakes rather than repeat them.

[Smitto]

I absolutely hate this idea. They are corner stones of the Colts and he's saying trade them for 4th round picks over fear that they might not resign. If Polian does this I would be highly suspicious that he's tanking on purpose. since its nearly impossible to get players to tank, he'll have to get the best players off the field.

To be honest im mad even hearing a rumor like this.

Hmmm is there really a conspiracy? i always wondered why kevin thomas wasnt playing.. i mean the guy is better than lacey and i strongly believe that but he is a healthy inactive thats just crazy considering the players infront of him... i will be shocked if kevin doesnt play or at least active in the bengals game... i doubt any trade happens though.

[deedub75]

Well, Thats pretty easy. Those guy's wouldn't get us anything in return. Wayne and Mathis are both free agents after the season and could easily decide to go elsewhere if they wanted too. Why not trade them and get picks to get younger guys in here when you have the opportunity?

Ditto. That's what Schefter was saying. I say they should get new deals done for both of them before the trade deadline or trade them both.

[deedub75]

Gotta remember these guys are still playing at a high level and their skills haven't really slipped. Someone mentioned the Colts have a problem holding on to players. I disagree, Colts have have a problem holding on to players who don't produce.

It has nothing to do with them playing at a high level. It has everything to do with business. The fact is that we are not going to the playoffs this year and both Wayne and Mathis will be FAs at season's end. They both will likely be signing their final pro contracts and they both will want mega salaries. They could both sign with other teams and we get nothing in return. As a fan I don't want either one of them to go but the business side in me says it makes sense. The logical side in me also says that the Polian never makes bold moves so no trades will happen. These are not rumors that Schefter is putting out there. He simply said that these moves would make sense but the will NOT happen.

[JoKeR]

Ok so its just his idea but 4th round picks? Way to aim high Adam.

[husker61]

The colts would likely get a compensatory pick for each one I believe in the 2013 draft, and the round would be determined by their playing time and impact to the new team vs. the same for any FA's we bring in this coming offseason.

like i said in a earlier post. they are unrestricted free agents. there is no compensation picks for loosing them.

[husker61]

Prior to finalizing a trade, any potential trade partner would be allowed the opportunity to talk to both Wayne and Mathis so that they can workout a new contract. That's how teams safeguard themselves when trading for a player who will wind up an UFA the following offseason. This is also one thing that could keep them from being packaged to the same team.

that could be done, but is VERY unlikely.

[Ramblinwreck7]

That would be a waste to trade them for 4th round picks. Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis are both more valueable than what 2 4th round picks would be for us. Remember, were trying to put a team around Manning, not take it apart.

[jskinnz]

Ok so its just his idea but 4th round picks? Way to aim high Adam.

What kind of market do you think there is for pending free agents getting ready to go on their 3rd contract?

[Jason_]

like i said in a earlier post. they are unrestricted free agents. there is no compensation picks for loosing them.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81ef2e1e/article/nfl-distributes-compensatory-draft-picks-to-23-clubs

Under the rules for compensatory draft selections, a team losing more or better compensatory free agents than it acquires in the previous year is eligible to receive compensatory draft picks.

This doesn't specify between restricted and unrestricted FA's. Here is a quote from another site

Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula that was developed by the NFL Management Council. Not every free agent lost or signed by a team is covered by this formula.

.

I can't find anything that specifically defines a "compensatory free agent" as either an unrestricted or restricted. My understanding is it could apply to both. I am almost positive we've received compensatory picks in the past after losing key unrestricted free agents. If anyone can find an official link that can clear this up that'd be great.

[Captain Americolt]

We should draft Luck and trade Peyton Manning for first and second round picks!. Joking

[husker61]

I can't find anything that specifically defines a "compensatory free agent" as either an unrestricted or restricted. My understanding is it could apply to both. I am almost positive we've received compensatory picks in the past after losing key unrestricted free agents. If anyone can find an official link that can clear this up that'd be great.

we received picks for restricted free agents, they are different.

The definition that we cited above by the CBA for a Free Agent is really the definition of an "Unrestricted Free Agent" (UFA). More specifically, an UFA is : "[a] player [that] shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind." Basically, what that means is that an UFA is free to sign with the highest bidder (or the team of their choice) without that team having to give the original team any kind of compensation. When a player with five or more accrued seasons (or with four or more accrued seasons in any Capped Year) reaches the end of his player contract, he becomes an UFA.

http://www.askthecommish.com/freeagency/

[wercolts]

Replacing Mathis would be extremely tough and without him Freeney gets fewer pressures.

[Captain Americolt]

Maybe Hughes comes to life and fills the void left by Mathis?? You never know, maybe with freeney being doubled all the time Hughes could probably win one on one match-ups and get some sacks?......Eh... I could dream right?? :faint:

[indy_nick]

As long as we have Caldwell and his coaching staff I feel we don't need to trade players in an attempt to "tank" the season. Our coaching staff will do it for us. I'm all about building for the future, but I would also like to see Peyton get one more ring...I don't see that happening if Mathis and Wayne are traded. It usually takes players a season-3 season to develop into their own. That will be when Peyton is on his decline. I say keep some of our studs in a chance to help Peyton get into the elite 2 ring+ club.

[Jason_]

we received picks for restricted free agents, they are different.

The definition that we cited above by the CBA for a Free Agent is really the definition of an "Unrestricted Free Agent" (UFA). More specifically, an UFA is : "[a] player [that] shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind." Basically, what that means is that an UFA is free to sign with the highest bidder (or the team of their choice) without that team having to give the original team any kind of compensation. When a player with five or more accrued seasons (or with four or more accrued seasons in any Capped Year) reaches the end of his player contract, he becomes an UFA.

http://www.askthecom...com/freeagency/

thanks for clarifying. I know the difference between RFA and UFA but I couldn't remember which of the 2 the players were that we received those picks for.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Mathis and Wayne for 4th round picks. I tend to agree with him a bit. Both are in final contract year and both will want to get a big payday. There is also a chance that if they don't get what they want, another team could sign them away and Colts get nothing. I say get as many picks as you can and shore up the defense.

dont trade the only good players we have,udfas are as good as a fourth rounder

[John Dee]

I would dangle Wayne to a team like SF or Chicago right now.... and I would want a 3rd rounder... I bet one of them would jump at the chance.

[CanuckColtsFan]

It is absolutly ridiculous to let them go for a fourth rounder. Mathis is one of the best DEs in the league and Wayne is one of the best WR's in the league. Enough said

[John Dee]

It is absolutly ridiculous to let them go for a fourth rounder. Mathis is one of the best DEs in the league and Wayne is one of the best WR's in the league. Enough said

The Colts will keep Mathis most likely, but Wayne... If he refuses to lower his contract demands he will not be a Colt next season.

Also... WR is the one position on this team that I NEVER worry about. As long as Manning is in the game the Collie's and Whites will look like ........... Reggie Wayne.

[WoolMagnet]

It is absolutly ridiculous to let them go for a fourth rounder. Mathis is one of the best DEs in the league and Wayne is one of the best WR's in the league. Enough said

I think Mathis is every bit as good as Freeney.

Mathis and Freeney are the ONLY pressure we have on D.

Without Mathis, I believe Freeney won't be nearly as disruptive.

[bayone]

Adam Schefter suggested on ESPN Radio that theColts should trade veterans Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis for 4th round picks in the 2012 NFL Draft.

EXCERPTS

Schefter made the suggestion as part of a segment where he and the host were 'playing GM,' suggesting what moves should be made before the NFL's trading deadline, which is next week.

Stampede Blue also says

, when Schefter starts yapping about potential trade moves, people perk up. The reason for this is because Schefter is an information guy, not an analyst.

It's also worth noting that he and Chris Mortensen are, in essence, media mouthpieces for the Polian Family. So, when Schefter makes trade suggestions or recommendations for the Colts on a radio show, they carry extra weight.

Blue Talks Mathis to Jets and Wayne to BIlls suggested

Robert and Reggie are in the final years of their contracts, and it's obvious now that the Colts will not sign them to extensions. Believe it or not, this makes sense for Indy.

Mathis and Wayne are over 30, and while both are very productive players and strong team leaders, the reality is they aren't that important to the franchise. If they were, the Colts wouldn't be 0-5 right now. Also, with so many holes on this roster, and with the possibility of Indy getting the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, it would be irresponsible and foolish of the franchise to invest significant money in two 30+ players who are just getting past their primes.

What I'm saying here is Schefter's suggestions make sense, and if they are being explored as options by the Colts, I'd have no problem seeing both players traded.

In return, the Colts get good value for two aging vets, and we begin the process of rebuilding.

http://www.stampedeb...umors#storyjump

Rumor Mill: Mathis and the Jets?

http://www.thejetsbl...s-and-the-jets/

REBUTTAL BY INDY STAR

http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/2011/10/13/trade-wayne-or-mathis-not-so-fast/

Edited October 14, 2011 by bayone

[bayone]

REBUTTAL BY INDY STAR

http://blogs.indysta...is-not-so-fast/

[Jason_]

that could be done, but is VERY unlikely.

I never said it was likely. I think the colts trading anyone is unlikely but if they were going to then the other team would not complete the trade without having negotiated with Wayne and/or Mathis first.

[Moncrief]

I don't know, I'm starting to like the possibility of drafting Quinton Coples. After Mathis leaves along with Freeney, we could still have one of the more dominant pass rushes in the game. And yes, that means I'm saying Hughes is still here. The few times he's played he has started to show his skills. i.e. Buccaneers game.

[GoGoColts]

We will probably get more for them via compensatory picks than in a trade, so let them play their contracts out. If we get a 3rd rounder for Wayne, I am all for it. Mathis has less mileage and should get the nod for the payday over Wayne, IMO, if I HAD to choose.

Any new contract for Wayne should be heavily incentive based. Plus, let us not forget - Garcon might be playing for his next contract and Garcon along with Gonzo are in the last contract year as well. So, that is why it might be wise to wait it out till the end of this year to see how things unfold. Otherwise, it would be a case of buying a new house without making arrangements to sell your current one and end up with 2 mortgages (kinda like letting Lilja go without an adequate back up plan).

That is obviously true and a bit hilarious. Schefter should stick to reporting news rather than creating it.

[super8todd]

We definitely should trade both and get what we can.. Of course we can't afford them and should move them. Plus, this will ensure we get the worst record this year in order to draft Luck.

[Jason_]

like i said in a earlier post. they are unrestricted free agents. there is no compensation picks for loosing them.

Per Michael Lombardi:

“Once the franchise tag decision is set (by the Colts), now the Colts have assets,” Lombardi added. “Can they get something for those assets before they lose them in the free-agent market? Now, remember, a compensatory pick for players of this caliber typically would be a third-round pick. I’m sure teams would have to pay significantly to get both players.”

http://wap.nfl.com/blogs/2011/10/14/are-colts-mathis-wayne-available/

If there were no possibility of getting compensatory picks for Wayne or Mathis is we don't re-sign them, then why would Lombardi make a statement about what round we would receive a compensatory pick in for a player like Wayne or Mathis?

[husker61]

Per Michael Lombardi:

http://wap.nfl.com/b...ayne-available/

If there were no possibility of getting compensatory picks for Wayne or Mathis is we don't re-sign them, then why would Lombardi make a statement about what round we would receive a compensatory pick in for a player like Wayne or Mathis?

the colts will only get compensation from a team that signs them as free agents if the colts franchise the player. i posted a link to what the rules were regarding free agents.

i have no clue what lombardi is talking about, maybe he doesn't ether.

[Jason_]

the colts will only get compensation from a team that signs them as free agents if the colts franchise the player. i posted a link to what the rules were regarding free agents.

i have no clue what lombardi is talking about, maybe he doesn't ether.

there's a miscommunication somewhere along the lines. From the link you posted,

More specifically, an UFA is : "[a] player [that] shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind."

A RFA is "any Veteran player with three or more accrued seasons, but less than five accrued seasons (or less than four accrued seasons in any capped year)... At the expiration of his last Player Contract during such period... [the player] shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any club, and any club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any such player, subject to... certain restrictions."

and further down in the explanation of a RFA

The player's original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at the Player’s Original Draft Round (from the team with which he signs)

Here's another site, though far from official but the definitions given of RFA and UFA coincide with the definitions as given by the link you posted

http://steelergridiron.com/information/freeagents_definitions.html

RESTRICTED FREE AGENT (RFA): A player whose contract has expired and has fewer than four tenured years in the league. He may sign an "Offer Sheet" with any other team, but his original team has seven days to match any offer he receives. If the original team does not match the offer, compensation will be awarded in the form of draft picks from the signing team. The round and quantity of picks are determined by the "Qualifying Offer" made by the player's original team. If a RFA is tendered a minimum qualifying offer the compensation is the equivalent of the round in which that player was originally selected. If that player was originally a rookie free agent, no compensation is awarded.

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT (UFA): A player whose contract has expired and has four or more tenured years in the league. He may sign with any other team with no restrictions. If a team loses more UFAs than it signs, they will be awarded "Compensatory Draft Picks" from the league. The value of the pick is determined by the difference of the contracts signed by the players lost and those acquired. If a team has signed an equal number or more UFAs than it has lost, no "Compensatory Picks" will be awarded.

So you are correct, since Mathis and Wayne are UFA's then they are free to sign with any other team and we would receive no compensation from that team. If they were RFA's and they signed elsewhere, then we would be compensated with a draft pick from the team Mathis/Wayne signed with. That, however isn't what I was talking about nor what Lombardi was talking about in the link I posted. If the Colts were to not re-sign Mathis and Wayne, and we also did not sign any other equal-caliber FA's during the same offseason, then we could likely be compensated with compensatory draft picks for each, in rounds that would be determined by contracts, playing time etc. These draft picks wouldn't be awarded until the 2013 draft though since the signings would be taking place during the 2012 offseason.

[colts52761]

Trade them.

[husker61]

why would you start breaking up a championship caliber team if manning will be back next year?

[colts52761]

I don't think we will be able to sign them or want to give them the money they want, besides this team has a lot of holes.

[Captain Americolt]

I don't think we will be able to sign them or want to give them the money they want, besides this team has a lot of holes.

Yeah and if we let them go there will be more holes to fill

[doogansquest]

I don't think we will be able to sign them or want to give them the money they want, besides this team has a lot of holes.

The team doesn't really have that many holes. We need DB's, perhaps a NT (though good ones are extremely hard to come by), and interior offensive linemen. Most of that can be had in the upcoming draft, given where we will be selecting.

I think getting our leader back, as well as some competent coaching, would do wonders to return us to Super Bowl form. This team went to the Super Bowl just 2 years ago, and we didn't have Carter, Nevis, Castonzo, Angerer, Anderson/Brayton (whichever we keep), or Lefeged. I feel like we've added good pieces, but lost some CB's, and our QB. We know at least one of those two facets will return.

[rockywoj]

The team doesn't really have that many holes. We need DB's, perhaps a NT (though good ones are extremely hard to come by), and interior offensive linemen. Most of that can be had in the upcoming draft, given where we will be selecting.

I think getting our leader back, as well as some competent coaching, would do wonders to return us to Super Bowl form. This team went to the Super Bowl just 2 years ago, and we didn't have Carter, Nevis, Castonzo, Angerer, Anderson/Brayton (whichever we keep), or Lefeged. I feel like we've added good pieces, but lost some CB's, and our QB. We know at least one of those two facets will return.

I pretty much agree with your analysis. You tend to be pretty spot on and level headed, when grading the team / players. Kudos.

[bap1331]

youre crazy if you think that we should trade Mathis or Reggie Wayne....

Reggie could be one of the best WR right now...

If we let them go into free agency,

the Jets, Patriots, and Chargers would be the first ones to pick them up just to tick us off