PFF Analysis: CLE @ IND [Merge]

[Dustin]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/26/refo-cle-ind-preseason-wk-3/

 

Indianapolis – Three Performances of Note

 

Hail Caesar!

Since this is the time of year for underdogs and feel-good stories, how about this one… outside linebacker Caesar Rayford is fighting for place among the final 53 in Indianapolis and is demanding attention. Slotted in behind Colt mainstay Robert Mathis and first-round pick Bjoern Werner, the long-armed former Arena-leaguer with a knack for getting after the QB has recorded 10 total pressures so far this preseason.

 

His five preseason sacks (he had another wiped out by a penalty) are pacing all edge rushers and he’s making full use of his wingspan to latch on to passers as he circles the pocket. That corner-shortening reach was on display against the Colts — check out the fourth-quarter plays at 14:29, 7:25, and 5:03 to see it in action. In a league hungry for pass rush, a show of talent will go a long way and if, in the end, there’s no room for him in Indy, his phone will be ringing.

 

Getting to Gosder

Brought in to solve woes on the right side, Gosder Cherilus carries high marks as a pass protector from his 2012 crown as the top right tackle in that regard. This game, though, was a different story. Cherilus (-2.5) had trouble containing both Paul Kruger off the edge and Rubin coming from his inside – allowing a combination of four total pressures from the two on 30 pass-blocking snaps (for a not-so-hot Pass Blocking Efficiency of just 89.2 on the day). Likely a blip, given his history, but not what the Colts want to see from one of their prized free agent signings.

 

Blocking is Relevant

Through three preseason games and some unexpected opportunity, rookie tight end Justice Cunningham has yet to display the blocking prowess that highlighted his draft profile. Selected by a team that had already invested in a pair of young tight ends, Cunningham’s perceived strength would have to be his ticket to sticking around… especially coming in as the draft’s final selection. But, for the second time in three outings while enjoying an extended look due to injuries ahead of him on the depth chart, Cunningham’s run blocking grade has dragged him down… this time, way down (-2.9 run blocking). Browns outside linebackers Kruger and Quentin Groves had their way with him, often beating him to the inside to re-route runners. Inside linebacker Craig Robertson also did the same on Indy’s first play as Cunningham appeared unsure of his target.

 

Game Notes

- Andrew Luck when facing no pressure: 13-of-17, two touchdowns, and a 140.3 passer rating. When pressured: 3-of-8, a pick, a sack, and a rating of 6.3.

- Running backs and fullbacks stayed in to pass block on 33 snaps for each team. The Browns’ backs allowed a single pressure while the Colts gave up none.

[Smonroe]

Good stuff Dustin.  If you, or anyone else, can get to the player performance scores can you please post them?

 

I thought Thorton did pretty well, and Reitz held his own.  But I'm curious to see how they scored overall.

[Dustin]

Andrew Mishler ‏@andrewmishler4m

Top 5 Colts on offense against the Browns, per @PFF grades: Reggie Wayne, Andrew Luck, DHB, Donald Thomas, Davin Meggett, respectively.

 

@andrewmishler1m

Defense was better for Colts. Cory Redding, Jerrell Freeman, Antoine Bethea, Aubrayo Franklin, Caesar Rayford, LaRon Landry had best grades.

 

@andrewmishler3m

Bottom five Colts offensive grades: Justice Cunningham, Gosder Cherilus, Matt Hasselbeck, Stanley Havili, Lee Ziemba.

[Dustin]

Good stuff Dustin.  If you, or anyone else, can get to the player performance scores can you please post them?

 

I thought Thorton did pretty well, and Reitz held his own.  But I'm curious to see how they scored overall.

 

@andrewmishler2m

+1.1 in pass pro, -0.9 in run blocking. Second-best overall O-line grade next to Donald Thomas.

 

(Thornton)

 

That's the only one I got.

[Dustin]

@andrewmishler13m

Bjoern Werner earned a +1.4 run defense grade, which was much better than last week. -1.0 pass rushing grade, but it's a work in progress.

 

Expand

 

 

@andrewmishler12m

Most surprising to me was Montori Hughes coming away with positive grades in pass rushing and run defense. Against 2s n 3s, but its progress

[HtownColt]

@andrewmishler: Top 5 Colts on offense against the Browns, per @PFF grades: Reggie Wayne, Andrew Luck, DHB, Donald Thomas, Davin Meggett, respectively.

@andrewmishler: Bottom five Colts offensive grades: Justice Cunningham, Gosder Cherilus, Matt Hasselbeck, Stanley Havili, Lee Ziemba.

@andrewmishler: Defense was better for Colts. Cory Redding, Jerrell Freeman, Antoine Bethea, Aubrayo Franklin, Caesar Rayford, LaRon Landry had best grades.

@andrewmishler: +1.1 in pass pro, -0.9 in run blocking. Second-best overall O-line grade next to Donald Thomas. RT @SpitHotFya How did Thornton grade out?

@andrewmishler: Bjoern Werner earned a +1.4 run defense grade, which was much better than last week. -1.0 pass rushing grade, but it's a work in progress.

@andrewmishler: Most surprising to me was Montori Hughes coming away with positive grades in pass rushing and run defense. Against 2s n 3s, but its progress

Also here is there review of the game:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/26/refo-cle-ind-preseason-wk-3/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=refo-cle-ind-preseason-wk-3

[GoodLuck]

Where are all of tge Gosder looked good people?

[chad72]

Good stuff Dustin.  If you, or anyone else, can get to the player performance scores can you please post them?

 

I thought Thorton did pretty well, and Reitz held his own.  But I'm curious to see how they scored overall.

 

Yep. What a find Caesar Rayford could be, for valuable breather minutes behind Mathis or Werner.

 

All hail Rain Man Grigson!!! Like I said, the football version of Theo Epstein. We are building a TEAM here, folks!!!

[Dustin]

Where are all of tge Gosder looked good people?

 

I don't think anyone claimed that Gosder looked good, rather than this was just a blip on the radar from an otherwise stout pass blocker. At least that's what I saw.

 

BTW, where were you at when he was being graded out as our best o-lineman two weeks in a row?

[schwamm]

Where are all of tge Gosder looked good people?

You try to be provocative, don't you? Except that the grades aren't saying worst in the NFL, just worst on the Colts O... which handily won the game...

There had to be 5 guys who PFF feels graded out worst on the team, it doesn't mean the same as "he's garbage".

And that doesn't account for all the ways people generally disregard PFF's grading system, which is useful but flawed.

[OffensivelyPC]

Where are all of tge Gosder looked good people?

He definitely didn't look great on Saturday.  Kruger was playing solid D and was always in the backfield it felt like. 

[Dustin]

And that doesn't account for all the ways people generally disregard PFF's grading system, which is useful but flawed.

 

The grading system is irrelevant. He let Luck be pressured or hit 4 times on 30 pass plays which is terrible. 

 

He had only allowed 4 pressures the other 2 games combined, so I'm sure this was just an outlier tho.

[throwing BBZ]

Where are all of tge Gosder looked good people?

 

Gosder gave up ground QUICKLY against the pass rush and looked so so run blocking.

He benefited plenty by Andrew getting rid of the ball more quickly.

 

Montori Hughes looked like a bloated slow blob to me. Like Tevasu. Certainly NOT writing him off.

Happy to give him a year to get better and to work on his NFL body. Wish him the best.

 

Meggett had real RB quickness.

[Valpo2004]

Didn't know Rayford was havn't such a great pre-season.  I presume he's a keeper at this point.  

 

I would have liked to see what he could do against first stringers.  

[Dustin]

Didn't know Rayford was havn't such a great pre-season.  I presume he's a keeper at this point.  

 

I would have liked to see what he could do against first stringers.  

 

He was in with the first stringers at one point and beat Joe Thomas on an inside move to get a pressure on Weeden. Good sign imo. This guy could be real valuable for us this year.

[Smonroe]

He was in with the first stringers at one point and beat Joe Thomas on an inside move to get a pressure on Weeden. Good sign imo. This guy could be real valuable for us this year.

 

He's got to be a lock to make the team now that Sidbury is gone.  The only thing he has going against him is his age.  You'd want a guy his age to have worked out all the rookie flaws by then. 

 

And for those who are saying he's a one trick pony - so what?  We need that one trick.

[Dustin]

 

 

And for those who are saying he's a one trick pony - so what?  We need that one trick.

 

This. At worst, we throw him in on 3rd and long and tell him to sic the QB. 

[lollygagger8]

Rayford is a keeper......fo sho

[dgambill]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/26/refo-cle-ind-preseason-wk-3/

 

Indianapolis – Three Performances of Note

 

 

Game Notes

- Andrew Luck when facing no pressure: 13-of-17, two touchdowns, and a 140.3 passer rating. When pressured: 3-of-8, a pick, a sack, and a rating of 6.3.

- Running backs and fullbacks stayed in to pass block on 33 snaps for each team. The Browns’ backs allowed a single pressure while the Colts gave up none.

Those are almost Brady type numbers. Imagine if we could protect him like NE does. Although I have to say this could represent probably 25 out of 32 starting qbs in the league.

 

I will be honest...haven't seen much of the Ceasar kid this preseason as I've turned it off once the starters came out...will be interesting.

[jameszeigler834]

Not as bad as last year he was hit way more than that last year in 30 pass plays.

[Valpo2004]

Those are almost Brady type numbers. Imagine if we could protect him like NE does. Although I have to say this could represent probably 25 out of 32 starting qbs in the league.

 

I will be honest...haven't seen much of the Ceasar kid this preseason as I've turned it off once the starters came out...will be interesting.

 

Yeah that was my problem.  I saw him for the first time on Saturday and he was rushing the passer against the backups.  

 

His big problem to crack the starting lineup is I doubt on 3rd and long they would pull Mathis or Werner barring injury.  And I don't think the guy is big enough to play 3-4 DE.

[GoodLuck]

You try to be provocative, don't you? Except that the grades aren't saying worst on the NFL, just worst on the Colts O... which handily won the game...

There had to be 5 guys who PFF feels graded out worst on the team, it doesn't mean the same as "he's garbage".

And that doesn't account for all the ways people generally disregard PFF's grading system, which is useful but flawed.

Dude, think about that for a minute. Satele was playing. To be the worst on this team is pretty bad. Especially when you got paid like him. Im skeptical of players who only show up in conrract yrs.

[SteelCityColt]

You try to be provocative, don't you?

That's putting it mildly.

[schwamm]

Dude, think about that for a minute. Satele was playing. To be the worst on this team is pretty bad. Especially when you got paid like him. Im skeptical of players who only show up in conrract yrs.

According to SFFPR, you are rated the worst poster on this Forum this week, with a post rating of -18.9. Does that make you "total garbage", or just guilty of having an off week?

[Jason_]

Yeah that was my problem.  I saw him for the first time on Saturday and he was rushing the passer against the backups.  

 

His big problem to crack the starting lineup is I doubt on 3rd and long they would pull Mathis or Werner barring injury.  And I don't think the guy is big enough to play 3-4 DE.

 

On 3rd and long the colts most likely won't be in a 3 man front very often.  They'll use a lot of 4 man fronts (just like they did all last year and have been doing so far in each game this preseason) as well and who knows what other type of blitz packages they could come up with.  

[BOTT]

According to SFFPR, you are rated the worst poster on this Forum this week, with a post rating of -18.9. Does that make you "total garbage", or just guilty of having an off week?

I'm still waiting for his on week

[OffensivelyPC]

According to SFFPR, you are rated the worst poster on this Forum this week, with a post rating of -18.9. Does that make you "total garbage", or just guilty of having an off week?

Seems to me that the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[NewEra]

We could win the sb and he would complain non stop about something or someone. There's always "that guy"

[GoodLuck]

According to SFFPR, you are rated the worst poster on this Forum this week, with a post rating of -18.9. Does that make you "total garbage", or just guilty of having an off week?

[dw49]

The grading system is irrelevant. He let Luck be pressured or hit 4 times on 30 pass plays which is terrible. 

 

He had only allowed 4 pressures the other 2 games combined, so I'm sure this was just an outlier tho.

 

 

Yes .. evidently Cherilius had a bad pre season games which followed two good ones. Worst case scenario is Grigson made a bad signing and we have to see if someone else is available to better protect Luck . Best case is he just had a bad pre season game and will be fine. I would think that as long as he stays healthy , the RT position will be a whole lot better than last year's disaster. 

 

Why doesn't anyone get excited about Thornton grading out pretty well after missing almost the entire training camp ?

[HtownColt]

Where are all of tge Gosder looked good people?

He only gave up 1 hurry in the first two games combined

[Dustin]

24. Bjorn Werner, OLB, Indianapolis Colts

Grade: -2.0

Snaps: 69

Analysis: Looked better this week after a nervous start against the Giants. Still, he looks a little raw and when he’s taken the field with Caesar Rayford he’s been largely outplayed. Ticketed for a situational and backup role this year while he develops.

[Jason_]

 

24. Bjorn Werner, OLB, Indianapolis Colts

Grade: -2.0

Snaps: 69

Analysis: Looked better this week after a nervous start against the Giants. Still, he looks a little raw and when he’s taken the field with Caesar Rayford he’s been largely outplayed. Ticketed for a situational and backup role this year while he develops.

 

 

I'd have to go back to re-watch the browns game and look for how they played when Rayford and Werner were opposite each other in  a 4 man front, but when they were in a 3-4 with Werner and Rayford on the field, Werner was playing SLB and Rayford was playing RushLB.  I would presume this is because, at this point, Werner is the more polished and versatile of the 2.  So at those times, Rayford was simply tasked with rushing the passer while Werner was playing contain or in coverage.  so that being said and again, I'd have to go back to pay close attention to when they were in sub packages together, but I think the "he's been largely outplayed" is a bit inaccurate because they've been throwing a lot more at Werner and asking a lot more of him than Rayford.  

 

The preceding comments have been directed exclusively at PFF's review and not at you Dustin..I know you were just posting what they said

[cbear]

Hughes ranked that high?  I thought he looked slow and didn't do much.

[chrisfarley]

I would be absolutely shocked if Rayford is not kept, I went back and looked at video just to get a better look at this guy.  are you kidding, 5 sacks in 3 pre-season games?  Is that a misprint? no,its not, i went back and looked.  he will terrorize offenses this year.  I think Mathis is going to be injury prone as old as he is, so this guy will be needed.

[SteelCityColt]

 

This is certainly one of your more memeorable posts.