Why i believe Landry/Bethea will shine

[BronxColtNYC]

I was pretty uneasy with the Landry signing. youngish veteran with good starting rep but holes in his game. (Mainly pass coverage)

his 2012 numbers were nothing to write home about.100 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 INT, 8 passes defended.

After having a discussion in another thread about how bethea's production seemed to drop off due to talent around himI decided to look at who else he was playing with at safety in 2012.

His full time starting partner in 2012 was Yeremiah Bell (34 years old) who played the "free" safety role. Bell ended the year with 89 tackles, 1 sack but 0 INT and only 2 passes defended.

The two backup safeties were both rookies and did not see the field much on defense.

Sure, the Jets CBs are pretty good at cornerback with CB1 Antonio Cromartie (35 tackles, 0 sacks, 3 INT, 13 passes defended) and CB2 Kyle Wilson (48 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 PD) but no better than what the Colts will be. (Revis injured so I didn't include)

It appears to me that Landry may have been doing the same thing that Bethea was doing in 2012; overcompensating for weak players around them. Bell is pretty clearly on his last legs and was no ball hawk. Cromartie is as solid as they come but I know that Wilson struggled greatly last year from the "eye" test and his stats prove that out.

Assuming that Bethea can actually go back to playing FS and Landry concentrates on SS with our 4-deep CB situation beting solid top to bottom, this secondary could really be greatly improved over last year.

It will be interesting to see what these safeties can do when they have someone beside them that they can each count on to be doing their job well.

Discuss...

[ruksak]

Sometimes things are as simple as they seem. 

 

Bethea's play is declining. 

[lollygagger8]

Sometimes things are as simple as they seem. 

 

Bethea's play is declining. 

 

 

I really hope that this isn't the case, but you may be correct unfortunately.

[Smonroe]

I was pretty uneasy with the Landry signing. youngish veteran with good starting rep but holes in his game. (Mainly pass coverage)

his 2012 numbers were nothing to write home about.100 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 INT, 8 passes defended.

After having a discussion in another thread about how bethea's production seemed to drop off due to talent around himI decided to look at who else he was playing with at safety in 2012.

His full time starting partner in 2012 was Yeremiah Bell (34 years old) who played the "free" safety role. Bell ended the year with 89 tackles, 1 sack but 0 INT and only 2 passes defended.

The two backup safeties were both rookies and did not see the field much on defense.

Sure, the Jets CBs are pretty good at cornerback with CB1 Antonio Cromartie (35 tackles, 0 sacks, 3 INT, 13 passes defended) and CB2 Kyle Wilson (48 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 PD) but no better than what the Colts will be. (Revis injured so I didn't include)

It appears to me that Landry may have been doing the same thing that Bethea was doing in 2012; overcompensating for weak players around them. Bell is pretty clearly on his last legs and was no ball hawk. Cromartie is as solid as they come but I know that Wilson struggled greatly last year from the "eye" test and his stats prove that out.

Assuming that Bethea can actually go back to playing FS and Landry concentrates on SS with our 4-deep CB situation beting solid top to bottom, this secondary could really be greatly improved over last year.

It will be interesting to see what these safeties can do when they have someone beside them that they can each count on to be doing their job well.

Discuss...

Good stuff. Even if AB isn't declining, S is one of our least deep positions and needs to be addressed in the draft. Lefeged is a decent backup but I don't think he's poised to be a starter.

[ztboiler]

I really hope that this isn't the case, but you may be correct unfortunately.

In the NFL, actions when a team has flexibility tell you a lot. Given the phase that this team is in, if Bethea was viewed as anything but a solid piece of the puzzle, he'd have been cut going into free agency.  He is only $1 mill dead right now due $4.5 mill+.  If Grigs thought he wasn't able to deliver at that level, he'd have unloaded regardless of how much he/we like Bethea.  Lot's of safeties changing hands this off-season.  It is was a conscious decision to keep Bethea as a core piece for how they think he will perform, not based on how he has performed.

[sixfive]

Bethea has been one of the shining stars in the secondary.  He has done what has been asked of him, until the team aquired Vontae Davis, Bethea was it now with Landry I forsee the backend of this defense being something to deal with if the injury bug does not get them.  Laundry is a hitter, Bethea will hit also.  Landry can shine in this D because he does not have to be in Revis shadow.  But lets be real people the safety is the last line of defense.  Ed Reed get all of his pub from tipped balled and he hits people coming across the middle.  He would not get any of that if it was not for the horses up front.  With that being said the backend will get it this year because the D line will make it happen.

[Narcosys]

his 2012 numbers were nothing to write home about.100 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 INT, 8 passes defended.

 

 

 

Is that bad for a safety?  Seems like pretty legit numbers to me.  Either way, both players will now be able to focus on their primary job instead of having to concern themselves with another position.  So i think it is fair to say that you are correct.  They will shine.

[chad72]

Bethea's numbers when he worked with Sanders vs working with Bullitt, Francisco or Zbikowski are night and day. Bethea can make more plays instead of playing "eraser" or worrying about whether the other person will have it right, at least I believe so. That is why the Landry signing was very important. It actually adds value two fold to our safety corp, IMO. I expect Bethea to make more plays this year.

[optimusprimetime]

I think that Bethea may have lost a step or 2 but is still a great safety, with all the pieces Grigs is putting together I expect some big things from this defense.  Also, I read on bleacher report that Jerry Hughes is ranked 16th in 2013 for 3-4 olbs, above Mathis and Walden.  The report said he had his ups and downs but showed great promise for improvement in 2013.  I think also with hopefully improvement in all aspects of the game (run game) (clock management) (we scored very quickly at times) the defense won't have to be on the field as long, which in turn helps the D....Draft needs WR,OL,DL,S,RB,CB not in order of rounds depends on who is available... and I think the colts are gonna trade down to get a extra pick which is fine with me because this draft is not that exciting as in years past....  GO COLTS

[Black-Vell]

"Bethea's play is declining"? Not our Bethea. You say this like stats are guaranteed for just showing up. An INT isnt something a DB just makes happen. QB's are taught NOT to throw them. D Revis doesnt lead the league in INT's every year - is his play declining?

 

2 years ago i guess you would say R Wayne's play declined huh. Point is - regardless how much the NFL markets its stars through the media - football is a team game & individual stats are effected by the players around them & the system they play in. 

 

We swithed to a 3-4 last year. That could effect production. We are changing our offense this year. If Luck has less yards halfway through the season than he did last year will you say his prduction is declining or Arians offense was better?

 

Bethea is a Pro Bowl Safety. He is our Ed Reed. He's so good - we really only have 1 Safety - Landry is like B Pollard - A LB. Pagano created BAL defense & if A Bethea wasnt up to being our E Reed - unfortunately - no matter how much we like him - he'd be outta here.

[Imped]

Bethea is the best safety we have and that's including Landry. I can honestly say that the last person I ever worry about on our D is Bethea. He's a rock and is as reliable as they come. Nobody can be 100% all the time so mistakes will happen here and there but I firmly believe they are minimized with 41. 

 

#shoutouttoall41jerseywearers

[CardiacColts]

Bethea's numbers when he worked with Sanders vs working with Bullitt, Francisco or Zbikowski are night and day. Bethea can make more plays instead of playing "eraser" or worrying about whether the other person will have it right, at least I believe so. That is why the Landry signing was very important. It actually adds value two fold to our safety corp, IMO. I expect Bethea to make more plays this year.

Completely agree. You can bet that our safeties will need to be accounted for by opposing OC's. We have two playmakers that have been forced to compensate for inferior partners. I imagine we will like what we see this year, SO LONG AS THEY STAY HEALTHY! 

[TKnight24]

Bethea is NOT declining. Stop saying that people

Yes he's getting older, but he has at least 2-3 good seasons left. Zib & Vaughn made Bethea look bad. I guarantee we see an improvement in the secondary from everyone this year

[ruksak]

A lot of this sounds like excuses to me. 

 

I like Bethea, I assume he'll play better this year on account of the reinforcements that were brought in. However, he bit and stumbled a LOT last season. 

 

Let's hope I'm wrong. 

[TKnight24]

A lot of this sounds like excuses to me.

I like Bethea, I assume he'll play better this year on account of the reinforcements that were brought in. However, he bit and stumbled a LOT last season.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

It's not excuses ruksak, it's facts. We all saw how well Bethea performed when Bob was back their with him. That's all it takes. Defense is about complimentary players. Landry & Bethea will now compliment each other. And Bethea & Toler will compliment now that Bethea actually has a CB that actually does good for what he's being paid to do

[21isSuperman]

From what I remember, Bethea's play last year was still at a high level.  He was still making plays.  He didn't have a very good partner in Zbi.  Him and Landry have the potential to form a very good duo, something like Bethea/Sanders lite.

[smittywerb]

Bethea will be more comfortable playing his role this year because he doesn't have to worry about picking up the slack on the run game that much and he can focus on what he does best, and that's defend the pass.  

 

It will be much better for Bethea to look across the field and see Landry rather than seeing Zib or Lefeged(spell check).  Bethea will have a good year, barring Landry doesn't miss too much time.

[lollygagger8]

Not having to babysit and fix all Cassius Vaughn's mistakes should automatically put Bethea in the Pro Bowl

[coltsfanatic24]

A great pass rush makes your secondary better and we had none last year. If we can draft a player like Datone Jones then our entire secondary will be better.

[Buck Showalter]

Love Bethea and like the Landry signing, still would love to see a safety brought in via draft... Would love it if Grigs can trade back & grab J. Cyprien & a G in the second

[chad72]

We first need to force teams to pass by stopping the run. Once our DL and LBs do that, our secondary has a chance.

 

We will get a heavy dose of 2 or 3 big TEs to go against in run D when we play San Fran. To be honest, I'd rather have that earlier in the year when our D is more healthy normally.

[UKColt13]

Landry is probably going to play more as an "in the box" safety. Giving Bethea more chances to play as the single deep safety in coverage whilst Landry takes care of crossing routes and inside runs.

As I remember Bethea did well in this role when Sanders was in his prime.

[NewColtsFan]

Fortunately for the Colts,  this just happens to be one of the best and deepest classes of Safeties the draft has produced in a long, long time.

 

I'm hoping the Colts take one by the end of the 4th round.

[BOTT]

"Bethea's play is declining"? Not our Bethea. You say this like stats are guaranteed for just showing up. An INT isnt something a DB just makes happen. QB's are taught NOT to throw them. D Revis doesnt lead the league in INT's every year - is his play declining?

 

2 years ago i guess you would say R Wayne's play declined huh. Point is - regardless how much the NFL markets its stars through the media - football is a team game & individual stats are effected by the players around them & the system they play in. 

 

We swithed to a 3-4 last year. That could effect production. We are changing our offense this year. If Luck has less yards halfway through the season than he did last year will you say his prduction is declining or Arians offense was better?

 

Bethea is a Pro Bowl Safety. He is our Ed Reed. He's so good - we really only have 1 Safety - Landry is like B Pollard - A LB. Pagano created BAL defense & if A Bethea wasnt up to being our E Reed - unfortunately - no matter how much we like him - he'd be outta here.

Closer to Ryan Clark than Ed Reed

[funktacious2]

Tons of great safeties in this years draft. 

[chad72]

Closer to Ryan Clark than Ed Reed

 

I agree. Just without the sickle-cell anaemia. Man, that has gotta be tough.

[Black-Vell]

Closer to Ryan Clark than Ed Reed

 

The Ed Reed reference was made based on in C Pagano's Defense  - A Bethea will do what E Reed does. I wasnt comparing them as players.

[Tark The Shark]

Bethea is the product of how long he has played, of course he is gonna lose some steam eventually.

 

Landry will help ease Bethea's workload.

[John Dee]

The dude has had to play LB for nearly his entire career.     Is it really a surprise?

 

Indy's D front has been historically weak at the point of attack.     Maybe a "stouter" D front will "energize" AB....  ??

Sometimes things are as simple as they seem. 

 

Bethea's play is declining. 

[John Dee]

Landry is 4 months "younger" than AB....   they are both 28 as of today.

 

Hardly washed up.

Bethea is the product of how long he has played, of course he is gonna lose some steam eventually.

 

Landry will help ease Bethea's workload.

[PrincetonTiger]

everything will be ok

[Tark The Shark]

Landry is 4 months "younger" than AB....   they are both 28 as of today.

 

Hardly washed up.

 

I never said either guy was washed up.

 

I was talking about how I had seen Bethea lose some steam. I didn't say a lot.

 

I believe that Landry and Bethea will play very well off of each other.

[BronxColtNYC]

Good stuff. Even if AB isn't declining, S is one of our least deep positions and needs to be addressed in the draft. Lefeged is a decent backup but I don't think he's poised to be a starter.

Late round FS like bishop or SS Earl Wolf.

[BronxColtNYC]

In the NFL, actions when a team has flexibility tell you a lot. Given the phase that this team is in, if Bethea was viewed as anything but a solid piece of the puzzle, he'd have been cut going into free agency.  He is only $1 mill dead right now due $4.5 mill+.  If Grigs thought he wasn't able to deliver at that level, he'd have unloaded regardless of how much he/we like Bethea.  Lot's of safeties changing hands this off-season.  It is was a conscious decision to keep Bethea as a core piece for how they think he will perform, not based on how he has performed.

Fantastic point! 100 tackles for a FS, is.nothing to sneeze at. It's shows he can still produce. Grigs has no loyalty to bethea, and save Wayne and Mathis, bethea was kept around even after grigs cut addai, Clark, Peyton, brackett, Bullitt. He sees production, and no doubt bethea is the captain of our secondary.

Maybe bethea isn't brought back, but I see Jim as an important player as most.

[BronxColtNYC]

Bethea has been one of the shining stars in the secondary.  He has done what has been asked of him, until the team aquired Vontae Davis, Bethea was it now with Landry I forsee the backend of this defense being something to deal with if the injury bug does not get them.  Laundry is a hitter, Bethea will hit also.  Landry can shine in this D because he does not have to be in Revis shadow.  But lets be real people the safety is the last line of defense.  Ed Reed get all of his pub from tipped balled and he hits people coming across the middle.  He would not get any of that if it was not for the horses up front.  With that being said the backend will get it this year because the D line will make it happen.

Let Landry in the box. Bethea is known to be excellent in deep coverage. Not much got over his head, but rarely did you see him deep in coverage, he had to "do it all" the last 4 year's.

[BronxColtNYC]

Bethea's numbers when he worked with Sanders vs working with Bullitt, Francisco or Zbikowski are night and day. Bethea can make more plays instead of playing "eraser" or worrying about whether the other person will have it right, at least I believe so. That is why the Landry signing was very important. It actually adds value two fold to our safety corp, IMO. I expect Bethea to make more plays this year.

I equate bethea paired with bad SS to Vick Ballard with last years line...they both excelled, but were hampered by their counterparts. Ballard and bethea will have excellent year in 2013.

[BronxColtNYC]

"Bethea's play is declining"? Not our Bethea. You say this like stats are guaranteed for just showing up. An INT isnt something a DB just makes happen. QB's are taught NOT to throw them. D Revis doesnt lead the league in INT's every year - is his play declining?

 

2 years ago i guess you would say R Wayne's play declined huh. Point is - regardless how much the NFL markets its stars through the media - football is a team game & individual stats are effected by the players around them & the system they play in. 

 

We swithed to a 3-4 last year. That could effect production. We are changing our offense this year. If Luck has less yards halfway through the season than he did last year will you say his prduction is declining or Arians offense was better?

 

Bethea is a Pro Bowl Safety. He is our Ed Reed. He's so good - we really only have 1 Safety - Landry is like B Pollard - A LB. Pagano created BAL defense & if A Bethea wasnt up to being our E Reed - unfortunately - no matter how much we like him - he'd be outta here.

Excellent, thoughtful, analytical post. Double likes for you.

[BronxColtNYC]

Bethea is the best safety we have and that's including Landry. I can honestly say that the last person I ever worry about on our D is Bethea. He's a rock and is as reliable as they come. Nobody can be 100% all the time so mistakes will happen here and there but I firmly believe they are minimized with 41. 

 

#shoutouttoall41jerseywearers

Rare combination of amazing run stopping ability with excellent pass coverage. You barely hear his name on any blown coverage situation.

[BronxColtNYC]

Bethea is NOT declining. Stop saying that people

Yes he's getting older, but he has at least 2-3 good seasons left. Zib & Vaughn made Bethea look bad. I guarantee we see an improvement in the secondary from everyone this year

Bethea will be 29 by kickoff, DBs last longer in this league. Minimum 5 left.

[BronxColtNYC]

From what I remember, Bethea's play last year was still at a high level.  He was still making plays.  He didn't have a very good partner in Zbi.  Him and Landry have the potential to form a very good duo, something like Bethea/Sanders lite.

Bethea and Landry had eerily similar numbers last year and Landry was a pro bowler. Safe to say bethea played at a pro bowl level?