Ballard over Brown?

[Creekside]

Ok, if you want to talk Browns stats last yr., remember that 160 of those yds came on 2 runs. If you take out those 2 runs and 2 carries. Brown had 485 yds on 132 carries or 3.6 yds per carry. Barely better than the unimpressive 3.1 yds per carry for Ballard. My point is, there is more than meets the eye when you just look at Browns total yds last yr.

......Brown had one 80 yard run, not two. His next longest run was 24 yds.

[John Dee]

After watching Vick Ballard in TC and pre-season, it is apparent that he is a stronger and a more physical back running between the tackles than Donald Brown. I wouldn't be surprised if Ballard eventually becomes the starting RB. Then we can spell him with Donald Brown later in the game with his speed and open field running once the defense has softened up.

Im afraid Donald Brown may not be physical or punishing enough as a runner to start games, but he CAN be very effective as a third down or second half type running back.

Maybe I'm overly impressed with the way Ballard runs the ball, but I see glimpses of pre-injury Edgerrin James when I watch him run. I'm looking forward to watching him progress in this new Colts offense.

Thus the dreaded... (for fantasy players) RB by committee.

Which we will see.

[GoColts8818]

Ballard had more production, but Brown had some flashes this preseason to not to mention more limited play. We'll see, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Ballard nabs the the starting job by the end of the season.

Brown has always shown flashes. That's the thing about him he is very much like a power hitter in baseball. Sometimes he's going to hit a homerun but other times he's going to strike out. You live with the strike outs because of the homeruns. The problem is to this point in his career Brown has not produced enough homeruns while striking out too often. With that said that's not all his fault. In order for a running back to hit a homerun in football he has to have good blocking up front which to be fair Brown has not enjoyed.

[funktacious2]

Brown has always shown flashes. That's the thing about him he is very much like a power hitter in baseball. Sometimes he's going to hit a homerun but other times he's going to strike out. You live with the strike outs because of the homeruns. The problem is to this point in his career Brown has not produced enough homeruns while striking out too often. With that said that's not all his fault. In order for a running back to hit a homerun in football he has to have good blocking up front which to be fair Brown has not enjoyed.

Very good analogy.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I think the 1-2 punch with Brown-Ballard will be more effective. It takes some time for defenders to get their legs underneath them and hence it might be good to start with Brown. The second half is where a guy like Ballard who can be more physical when the D is tired will help.

Dominic Rhodes was a better between the tackles physical runner while Addai was the more quicker one (at least his first 2 years). Dominic Rhodes coming behind Addai helped us a lot because Rhodes was going against tired legs. I think the same concept should theoretically work with Brown-Ballard, IMO.

I don't think addai was quicker than rhodes. Rhodes was very quick. Had a fast burst. He was always through the hole and gone. While addai wasnt as quick. He was slower. They'd get used to it and then Rhodes comes in and BAM! They had to get used to it.

[BleedBlu8792]

I don't think addai was quicker than rhodes. Rhodes was very quick. Had a fast burst. He was always through the hole and gone. While addai wasnt as quick. He was slower. They'd get used to it and then Rhodes comes in and BAM! They had to get used to it.

Yes, Dom was quicker, but Addai was faster. If he got into space there weren't many who could catch him. The problem was with Manning in that no way would the D-coord bring a safety up and leave a corner 1 on 1 with either Marv or Reggie. So, Addai rarely got to show case his homerun speed. He was a mid to low 4.3 guy coming out of college.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Yes, Dom was quicker, but Addai was faster. If he got into space there weren't many who could catch him. The problem was with Manning in that no way would the D-coord bring a safety up and leave a corner 1 on 1 with either Marv or Reggie. So, Addai rarely got to show case his homerun speed. He was a mid to low 4.3 guy coming out of college.

If that were true why would we have drafted a RB 1st round with the exact same capabilities. Addams specialty was trying to make his man miss. I can see where your coming from though. I've always been a Dom and addai supporter

[BleedBlu8792]

If that were true why would we have drafted a RB 1st round with the exact same capabilities. Addams specialty was trying to make his man miss. I can see where your coming from though. I've always been a Dom and addai supporter

Im not getting what you are saying here... Addams?

[USAFHoosier]

I love how Ballard runs and with him and Brown they could be a decent 1-2 puch. The Oline will once again make or break this season in the run and passing game.

[IndyTrav]

I expect the 1-2 combo to start the season. But I love what ive seen from Ballard. I fully expect him to be the starter by midseason. The problem is he is a rookie RB, and has a lot to prove to us and the coaches. It may take awhile, but I believe we have something in Ballard.

And a parting shot against Brown. He couldn't win a starting spot over an RB who isn't in the league anymore, or a rookie RB, who's more of a FB...that was with the old FO and HCs, so depending on how the new regime views him, I'm not sure his leash is as long as some believe.

[lollygagger8]

I think Brown has great speed, but he's kind of a one cut guy, and lacks the power to move the pile. So, if I was Arians, I'd use him catching passes out of the backfield like Moore was picked up to do.

I would also like to reiterate the fact that 160 of Brown's yards last year came on two runs.

Ballard has the vision to make cuts very well, and has power to hit the hole and move forwards. His speed isn't as fast as Brown, but he does have some wheels.

Carter need to scrape the butter off his hands before I'll be sold on him. I loved him last year (very tough runner) but he fumbled way too much.

What I don't understand is why we don't use the RB's on different downs in the same series more often. It seem like we only change them per quarter. We would keep the D on their heels alot better if we switched out the running styles more often!

[oldunclemark]

I think the 1-2 punch with Brown-Ballard will be more effective. It takes some time for defenders to get their legs underneath them and hence it might be good to start with Brown. The second half is where a guy like Ballard who can be more physical when the D is tired will help.

Dominic Rhodes was a better between the tackles physical runner while Addai was the more quicker one (at least his first 2 years). Dominic Rhodes coming behind Addai helped us a lot because Rhodes was going against tired legs. I think the same concept should theoretically work with Brown-Ballard, IMO.

Got to have 2 backs.....they take a beating (and they will in Chicago)

Lets not get too carried away with rookies.....a rookie should be second string (did I say that?)

[BOTT]

I love how some of you guys are ready to throw Brown out like its his fault that we cant run the ball, if it was his fault how did he rush for 645 yards on only 134 rushing yards last year

idk, but it could be blowout yards

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Im not getting what you are saying here... Addams?

Addai sorry. My phone has auto correct.

[Gavin]

idk, but it could be blowout yards

huh?

[Creekside]

I would also like to reiterate the fact that 160 of Brown's yards last year came on two runs.

................What two runs?...According to NFL.com he had one 80 yard run against the Titans at LOS. His next longest run was 24 yards. Remove the one 80 yard run and he still had an average of 4.2 yds per carry.

[Superman]

................What two runs?...According to NFL.com he had one 80 yard run against the Titans at LOS. His next longest run was 24 yards. Remove the one 80 yard run and he still had an average of 4.2 yds per carry.

What difference does it make? The ability to break off a big run is a positive for Brown, not a negative.

[Creekside]

What difference does it make? The ability to break off a big run is a positive for Brown, not a negative.

.....The original point was that Brown had a 3.7 yd per carry (unimpressive) average without the two 80 yard runs. With only one 80 yard run he has a a much better average. There is a half yard difference. Not so good at 3.7, and pretty good at 4.2. You can see that can't you?

[oldunclemark]

The fact that Brown had an 80-yard run is a good thing..not something you knock him for.

I'm anxious to see the 'center screen' that Luck threw to Brown on the first play of the exhibition season...

We did it once and then didnt run it again...

Hopefully Urlacher and Lance Briggs for got about that play..

Donaldn Brown has a very good pre-season pass protecting and that will be a key Sunday since we'll be throwing a lot

[Superman]

.....The original point was that Brown had a 3.7 yd per carry (unimpressive) average without the two 80 yard runs. With only one 80 yard run he has a a much better average. There is a half yard difference. Not so good at 3.7, and pretty good at 4.2. You can see that can't you?

Yes. My comment was really in response to the post you were responding to. The idea that Brown having long runs somehow is a knock against his numbers is kind of backward. Even if it were two 80 yarders and his average otherwise were 3.7, there's no reason to subtract his best plays from his record while evaluating him. Those plays are a part of what he brings to the table.

Sorry for the confusion. I'm pretty sure we're on the same side.

[BrentMc11]

I would be entirely comfortable both getting carries, regardless of who starts. They both are capable.

I don't know about production, but Ballard seems more exciting to watch.

Keep it fresh, and Mewelde Moore is an excellent 3rd down or passing option as well.....and a big fella named Carter is still in town too....Backs by committee....hit them at 100 % on every play/run!! Edited September 6, 2012 by BrentMc11

[oldunclemark]

Keep it fresh, and Mewelde Moore is an excellent 3rd down or passing option as well.....and a big fella named Carter is still in town too....Backs by committee....hit them at 100 % on every play/run!!

I really agree with that.....backs take a beating and you need them to run or block on every play

You can play 2 in a game...and get both 10 carries...a couple of catches and lots of blocking opportunities

[BrentMc11]

I really agree with that.....backs take a beating and you need them to run or block on every play

You can play 2 in a game...and get both 10 carries...a couple of catches and lots of blocking opportunities

Punish the defense...that is called smash mouth football Unc....love it.

[Gavin]

another idea I have is keep the offensive play calling fresh and by that I mean if and when we do use multiple Backs during this game use Brown or Ballard or Moore or even Carter to pass block every once in a while (one that they wouldn't expect would do that role) just send him in motion next to Dwayne Allen and have one free release or both and dump the ball off to him when that pass rusher rushes

[Mike Tahoe]

I have also seen them use three men in the back field behind Luck this pre-season, almost like a wish-bone formation. Not sure if it will be utilized much in the regular season, but with Allen and Brown's ability to catch the ball in the flat, it seemed to be an effective way to catch the defense off guard. The deffense assumes it will be a run play, but they showed that they could effectively run and pass out of that formation.

It would be interesting to see them line up Ballard, Brown, and Allen all in the backfield at the same time.

[BOTT]

huh?

meaning he was getting yards when the colts were getting clobbered

[lollygagger8]

I'm not taking away from the fact that Brown had a 80 yard run

................What two runs?...According to NFL.com he had one 80 yard run against the Titans at LOS. His next longest run was 24 yards. Remove the one 80 yard run and he still had an average of 4.2 yds per carry.

Ok one 80 yard run. Sorry. I was thinking he had one other long run against the Jaguars....but that must've been in 2010.

What I'm saying is, take those runs with a grain of salt because the Defense they were playing wasn't all that......

That 80 yard run against the Titans received a STELLAR chip block by Orlov. I think Brown got 160 yards in that game alone. So he was having a field day against the Titans.

Our first round draft pick has only had one other game over 100 rushing yards. Yup, against the Jaguars in 2010.

[Gavin]

meaning he was getting yards when the colts were getting clobbered

we werent getting clobbered vs Tennessee when he broke that 80 yard run, before that run itself Brown was averaging 5.4 yards a carry on his 15 other runs, he can run and he is deadly in the open field

[Gavin]

CAREER STATSMORE Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost 2011 Indianapolis Colts 16 2 134 645 4.8 80T 5 16 86 5.4 17 0 -- -- 2010 Indianapolis Colts 13 8 129 497 3.9 49 2 20 205 10.3 25 0 -- -- 2009 Indianapolis Colts 11 1 78 281 3.6 45 3 11 169 15.4 72 0 1 0 TOTAL 341 1,423 4.2 80 10 47 460 9.8 72 0 1 0

I think that T next to 80 in 2011 stands for twice but I could be wrong

[BOTT]

we werent getting clobbered vs Tennessee when he broke that 80 yard run, before that run itself Brown was averaging 5.4 yards a carry on his 15 other runs, he can run and he is deadly in the open field

one game doesn't really prove anything. like i said i don't know if that is the reason, but i remember seeing a stat on garcon where he got a good percentage of his production in garbage time last season.

[dgambill]

Lets just be honest here folks. We DON'T have a feature back! We don't have a MJD, Forte, McCoy, Rice, Johnson, Petterson type on this team. We have two solid backs that both have VASTLY different running styles. Both have positives and both have negatives. Ballard is a rookie, blocking is suspect, hands are questionable in receiving and fumbling. Brown is slight, easier to bring down with arm tackles, sometimes slow to read the holes, question his vision, and in the past had blocking issues as well. Ballard and Brown both have very good speed. Brown has Chris Johnson open field speed but not that intial quickness or fast to hit the hole. He is a threat to take it to the house on any play though. He doesn't fumble, willing to pick up the blitz, and is productive even if avg. Ballard runs with meaning. He has force behind his runs and sometimes delivers more of a blow then the defense. Has a wicked stiff-arm and hits the hole hard and fast chewing up yards. He has a deceiving burst but not the top end speed of Brown. Probably not a home run threat but just as likely to get those 12-15 yard runs as Brown. He sees the hole well and gets the extra yard...yards after contact by breaking tackles or falling forward.

I think we have two very good backs that compliment each other. No neither are a pro bowler or elite but both do things the other don't. I don't think we lack for anything in the backfield that other teams have. We got speed and talent. We also got two healthy backs and that is more than some teams have. If the line can open up some holes I think we could see 1600 yards between the two. It would be a stretch but I think they can get it done and it would definately take the pressure off Luck. Will they get enough attempts...idk.

[holeymoley99]

Yeah i can see quit a few screens think Brown may have as many rec yards as rushing some weeks.

[NewEra]

dont think it maters who starts. they both will get plenty of touches. I really really liked what Ive seen from Ballard so far. Wasnt really expecting that. Brown is more shake n bake. Ballard is more smash your face into the ground with a stiff arm. Love his running style, dude is tough. And as long as Carter can hold onto the ball I really like him alot also. Another tough, smash you type runner.

[gocolts123]

Saw Delone Carter a walmart last night. He was very short but freakishly big. He looked like he could squeeze the air out of the ball. Give him the rock and get out of his way!

[HtownColt]

Delone Carter is a good short yardage back minus the fumble problem

[HtownColt]

and to put it all in perspective Delone Carter's rookie preseason was better than Ballards. Carter had 92yrds on 22 carries with a 4.2 average. and people were saying he needs to be starting over Addai and Brown. He was doing fine until the fumbling problems started. In Ballards case regarding their preseason play this is just the same story different person.

[BrentMc11]

and to put it all in perspective Delone Carter's rookie preseason was better than Ballards. Carter had 92yrds on 22 carries with a 4.2 average. and people were saying he needs to be starting over Addai and Brown. He was doing fine until the fumbling problems started. In Ballards case regarding their preseason play this is just the same story different person.

I think first sentence you meant Brown....might edit while ya can..... I like Carter too....fumbles were a problem.

[GoColts8818]

one game doesn't really prove anything. like i said i don't know if that is the reason, but i remember seeing a stat on garcon where he got a good percentage of his production in garbage time last season.

No but Brown has proven when you can get him in open space he's pretty deadly. To me it's been more of an issue of getting him in open space which goes back to the o-line. Don't get me wrong I don't think Brown is a great back I think someone else hit the nail on the head when they said we don't have a feature back. We have a bunch of guys who can do some things well. For Brown that's if you get him in the open field he's deadly. He's a homerun hitter which means he's also going to strike out more than normal like I said before in this thread but the idea behind a good homerun hitter is that you live with the strikeouts for the homeruns. I'd agree to this point in his career Brown has not hit nearly enough homeruns which again isn't all his fault, the line shares in that blame as well.