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In-depth look at our current O-line


Legend of Luck

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I wanted to create a topic where we could discuss the facts that were presented in Stampede Blue's film breakdown of our current Offensive lineman and some info I pulled from PFF, and hopefully get a better understanding of what it is they do well and where they need to improve. I see a lot of people that post here that have some misconceptions about each player, and these film breakdowns may clear up some of that, so that we can have a more appropriate discussion on what to do in the draft and where we stand as a team.

 

So, for the sake of saving time, I put a link to all the articles below, and summarized the main takeaways from each. (Everything below was taken from the articles I've linked, none of it is my own deductions or thoughts.)

 

PFF Offensive Line Rankings- Colts Ranked 25th Overall- The most interesting bit of information from this was that they felt Castonzo had a really strong year, and that our original starting 5 were far superior to ANY combination we used when we had to account for injuries.

 

Anthony Castonzo - PFF 20th Ranked LT

Strengths- Good awareness, athletic and strong, good ability to anchor, wins most of the time when he initiates contact.

Weaknesses- Way too inconsistent, sometimes utilizes poor technique, susceptible to bull rushes

Pass Protection- Good
Run Blocking- Good-  (PFF ranked Castonzo as our top rated run blocker)

Upside- If he can work on his technique, he can become the top level LT that we need him to be, and that he was a few years ago.

Overall- Solid Starter

 

Jack Mewhort 

Strengths- Everything- Athletic, intelligent, great in both pass protection and run blocking. Mewhort should be a rock on our O-line for years.

Weaknesses- Very little, occasionally released a block too early.

Pass Protection- High Quality

Run Blocking- High Quality

Upside- Perennial Pro-Bowler
Overall- High Quality Starter

 

Joe Haeg at RG and Joe Haeg at RT

Strengths- Very mobile, able to get to and be effective at the second level, good technique, like Castonzo he wins most of the time that he initiates contact, good run blocker

Weaknesses- Very poor anchor that becomes a major liability in pass protection, not physically strong enough to beat some defenders when asked to "hold the line," victim of making some mental errors that could be attributed to being a rookie

Pass Protection- Below Average
Run Blocking- Good

Upside- If he is able to add strength in the weightroom and develop a stronger anchor, Haeg could be a strong starter at RG or RT in the future. But until he can add strength and develop his anchor, his ceiling is very limited.
Overall- Back-Up with upside.

 

 

Le'Raven Clark

Strengths- In his rookie season, Clark showed flashes of being a High Quality Starter. Incredible athlete, great anchor, long arms and strong hands, can shadow defenders well, athletic enough to get to the second level in the run game. 

Weaknesses- In his rookie season, made some mental errors, susceptible to being beat with leverage when he punches and pushes off instead of locking on.

Pass Protection- Good

Run Blocking- Good

Upside- As he develops, Clark could become our future LT if Castonzo doesn't improve. This upcoming year could be a breakout year for Clark.
Overall- Solid Starter

 

 

Denzelle Good- Pass blocking and run blocking

Strengths- The biggest and perhaps strongest lineman on the roster, can win one-on-one in pass protection and run blocking, great anchor, viscous at the point of attack, mauler and brutish run blocker, wins more often than not

Weaknesses- Lacks technique in certain areas such as dealing with speed rush, releases blocks too quickly on occasion, not very mobile in the run game, loses his balance in both the run game and passing game

Pass Protection- Good

Run Blocking- Good

Upside- Good has the ability to be our starting RG if he can develop his technique, work on keeping his balance, and potentially drop weight in order to become more mobile in the run game. Hopefully, with help from Joe Philbin, as he enters his 3rd season, he shows improvement in those areas and can put a strangle hold on the RG spot.
Overall- Solid Starter

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Missing from this list is obviously Kelly, but we all know he's a stud and is going to be our starting Center for years to come. Also, there is no info on newly signed Brian Schwenke.

 

Using this information, I think we can see that there is a ton of upside with our current roster. 

 

Kelly, Mewhort, and Le'Raven Clark look to be the real deal. Denzelle Good has size and strength that cannot be taught. If he can work on his technique a bit he could become a huge asset for us. Same thing with Haeg. Haeg shows very good technique, and if he can add some strength and develop a strong anchor (easier said than done, I know) I think Haeg could turn into an All-Pro RG or RT. And if we can get Castonzo back to the level he was playing at before, then we're all set at LT and RT.

 

I bring a lot of this up because I know the media has made a big deal about the Colts spending a high draft pick on OL. Now, I was all for trying to sign one of the top Free Agent Guards, because we had the money, but I think we have more pressing needs to address in the draft. Good is starting his 3rd year, Haeg and Clark are entering their second. If these guys can take some big steps forward and can STAY HEALTHY, our line could be leaps and bounds better.

 

Personally, looking at the information above, I think it would be a mistake to use anything more than a 4th round pick on another lineman.

 

And as a side note, the O-line has been in Indy working together, training and in the weight room for a lot of the off-season. That gives me even more hope, especially for a player like Haeg.

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2 minutes ago, #12. said:

They were the 25th ranked O-line, Castomzo the 20th rank LT. Really strong year?

 

Are we reading the same thing here?

 

Here's the direct quote.

"Top overall grade: LT Anthony Castonzo, 84.2 (No. 20)

LT Anthony Castonzo had a good season, especially as a run blocker..."

 

Mabye I should have said "good" instead of "really strong." My apologies.

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We need to pick up,an offensive lineman early. Not round one but before round 4. Those who say otherwise ignore Luck having two surgeries in two years and low ranked line #25.  Haeg is not a starter, Mewhort has been banged up and Coz not a great left tackle. 

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I just took a look at the roster, and with the exception of Costanzo, every OL is 26 or younger, with a majority being 23 or 24. It's a young group. There is certainly reason to be believe they will improve with some development. Biggest surprise to me, was that Mewhort (25) is actually younger than Good (26).

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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something here,  but what does this mean?     I'm cutting and pasting......

 

 

PFF Offensive Line Rankings- Colts Ranked 25th Overall- The most interesting bit of information from this was that they felt Castonzo had a really strong year, and that our original starting 5 were far superior to ANY combination we used when we had to account for injuries.

 

If that implies that our OL toward the beginning of the season graded out better than our OL the last 7 games of the season did when the C/RG/RT was Kelly, Haeg and Clark,  then I'm afraid I'm going to have to call nonsense on that viewpoint.    The OL was much better down the stretch...    and the stats including both far fewer sacks of Andrew Luck and a solid running game for Gore backs that up.

 

So,  what am I not understanding?     Have I misunderstood something?    Can someone throw me a bone here?   What's going on?     Clearly, I'm not understanding their meaning....

 

 

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20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something here,  but what does this mean?     I'm cutting and pasting......

 

 

PFF Offensive Line Rankings- Colts Ranked 25th Overall- The most interesting bit of information from this was that they felt Castonzo had a really strong year, and that our original starting 5 were far superior to ANY combination we used when we had to account for injuries.

 

If that implies that our OL toward the beginning of the season graded out better than our OL the last 7 games of the season did when the C/RG/RT was Kelly, Haeg and Clark,  then I'm afraid I'm going to have to call nonsense on that viewpoint.    The OL was much better down the stretch...    and the stats including both far fewer sacks of Andrew Luck and a solid running game for Gore backs that up.

 

So,  what am I not understanding?     Have I misunderstood something?    Can someone throw me a bone here?   What's going on?     Clearly, I'm not understanding their meaning....

 

 

The 1 paragraph blurb about the Colts line doesn't clearly define who they consider the starting 5. I would take it to mean they clearly see a lack of quality depth. Behind the starters... who ever they are?.

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48 minutes ago, Legend of Luck said:

 

You dont think that Haeg or Good could fix those issues?

Haeg could add weight get stronger but I think to anchor inside it would take away from his real strength his mobility. I am not sure he has the frame to add a lot of weight. I think Haeg is a  T.  

 

Good needs to do more than stunt/blitz recognition. He has trouble with more athletic players and his weight has been an issue. I don't want to count on Good. 

 

I would like to have an OL that keeps Luck clean. I want there to be depth so when a couple of guys get banged up we aren't running players like Blythe out. 

 

I think to do that without question we need to bring in a G. That guy to me is Johnson. He can kick out to tackle in a jam. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, I'm Negan said:

Bring in the Lamp.

I agree. Lamp is rated as the best O-lineman in the draft. He is ready to start from day one from what I read about him.

Ballard said he will concentrate on the trenches and this would be a good start.

I know we need defense but protecting Luck at this point is more important because without him winning games would be tough. Luck has had his surgery to repair his shoulder and we need to keep him as healthy as we can.

The picking of Lamp would also give us the depth at O-linemen we need to help cover any injuries.

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When our O-Line is ranked 25th, its not a good sign. 

 

We might have a very young group of players, but we still had the 25th ranked O-line.

 

Luck needs to be protected, so if the BPA is an O-line player when we draft at #15, if we dont trade away our pick, then get him.

 

We cant keep banging up Luck and send him to the hospital every single off season, if we keep doing that, we never win a SuperBowl with him as our QB.

 

I do believe that our O-line will become better this year, and my hope is that its ranked among the 15 best O-lines, when we hit off season in 2018. If not, then its O-line players we draft all day long next draft. 

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28 minutes ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

When our O-Line is ranked 25th, its not a good sign. 

 

We might have a very young group of players, but we still had the 25th ranked O-line.

 

Luck needs to be protected, so if the BPA is an O-line player when we draft at #15, if we dont trade away our pick, then get him.

 

We cant keep banging up Luck and send him to the hospital every single off season, if we keep doing that, we never win a SuperBowl with him as our QB.

 

I do believe that our O-line will become better this year, and my hope is that its ranked among the 15 best O-lines, when we hit off season in 2018. If not, then its O-line players we draft all day long next draft. 

If Luck takes a more serious injury we might be looking at the QB position with our first pick next year. :dunno:

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2 things.

 

1. Our O-line was ranked 25th mostly due to injury.

We lost Mewhort for a big chunk of the season and wasn't at his best when he returned. Denzelle Good missed time all year with a plethora of injuries. And Clark wasn't ready to play till the end of the year.

 

Edit: Joe Reitz, our starting RT was banged up all year too.

 

So that 25th ranking is a bit misleading.

 

2. I think Ballard wants the O-line to be as good as we do, so if he DOESN'T take O-line early, then I trust that he has faith in our current guys.

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I never got the impression that Denzelle Good was a solid NFL starter.  

 

This write up seems to have rose colored glasses on.  

 

7 hours ago, I'm Negan said:

Bring in the Lamp.

 

Not entirely against it but I think there is a guard out of IU we could have on the 2nd day that would probably provide more value.  

 

I recognize the need we have at both RG and at RB.  But I look at our offensive rankings and our defensive rankings and then hear people talking about spending our first round draft pick on an offensive player and it makes me just shake my head.  

 

We can't sit here and try to make the offense perfect while we string the defense along with bum players that wouldn't even stick on most other NFL rosters. 

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Just now, Legend of Luck said:

2 things.

 

1. Our O-line was ranked 25th mostly due to injury.

We lost Mewhort for a big chunk of the season and wasn't at his best when he returned. Denzelle Good missed time all year with a plethora of injuries. And Clark wasn't ready to play till the end of the year.

 

So that 25th ranking is a bit misleading.

 

2. I think Ballard wants the O-line to be as good as we do, so if he DOESN'T take O-line early, then I trust that he has faith in our current guys.

 

#3 The OL played pretty much the entire season with 2 and sometimes even 3 rookies starting.  Rookies make mistakes, everyone knows that.  A good chunk of our problems might have just been rookie mental errors that will happen far less often when we are starting players with a bit of NFL experience.  

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8 hours ago, KelownaColtsFan said:

The 1 paragraph blurb about the Colts line doesn't clearly define who they consider the starting 5. I would take it to mean they clearly see a lack of quality depth. Behind the starters... who ever they are?.

I believe at the start of the season, our 5 were A.C., Mewhort, Kelly, Good, Reitz.

 

Mewhort, Good, and Reitz all missed significant time.

 

Haeg was exposed in pass protection.

Harrison was terrible every time he played. Hugh Thorton is definitely not good. And Clark wasn't ready till the last few games.

 

So yes, it's 100% about depth behind our starters.

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9 hours ago, Legend of Luck said:

 

You dont think that Haeg or Good could fix those issues?

I'll go on record as saying Haeg will be one of, if not our best lineman in the near future, next 2 seasons......   Just going on what a very respected coach told me.  Also think he stated it publicly

 

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You're relying on the oline remaining this cocnistent or getting better. I don't have faith in ifs. Which is why I want lamp in round 1. 

 

There re is a TON of defensive depth in the draft to help this team tremendously. Draft lamp, keep luck safe, get back to controlling TOP and lets go to the SB. 

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1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

I never got the impression that Denzelle Good was a solid NFL starter.  

 

This write up seems to have rose colored glasses on.  

 

 

Not entirely against it but I think there is a guard out of IU we could have on the 2nd day that would probably provide more value.  

 

I recognize the need we have at both RG and at RB.  But I look at our offensive rankings and our defensive rankings and then hear people talking about spending our first round draft pick on an offensive player and it makes me just shake my head.  

 

We can't sit here and try to make the offense perfect while we string the defense along with bum players that wouldn't even stick on most other NFL rosters. 

While I understand and respect your opinion on picking a defensive player at #15 taking Lamp at #15 is not trying to make the offense perfect. It's all about protecting Luck (when he needs it) and kick starting a running game. Make those things happen it would have a positive effect on the defense.

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A LT who had his worst year to date.  A LG who can't pull.  A 1rst rnd pick center who can't run block.  Those are our GOOD linemen.  After that it gets worse.  I can't see how you can spin this into a good situation.  I'm hoping they are just good enough to get in the way for three seconds.  Pass every down.

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4 minutes ago, Coltscrazy said:

A LT who had his worst year to date.  A LG who can't pull.  A 1rst rnd pick center who can't run block.  Those are our GOOD linemen.  After that it gets worse.  I can't see how you can spin this into a good situation.  I'm hoping they are just good enough to get in the way for three seconds.  Pass every down.

 

You are 100% dead wrong about Kelly and run blocking. That's a strength of his. I have no clue where you came up with that...

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14 hours ago, akcolt said:

Haeg could add weight get stronger but I think to anchor inside it would take away from his real strength his mobility. I am not sure he has the frame to add a lot of weight. I think Haeg is a  T.  

 

Good needs to do more than stunt/blitz recognition. He has trouble with more athletic players and his weight has been an issue. I don't want to count on Good. 

 

I would like to have an OL that keeps Luck clean. I want there to be depth so when a couple of guys get banged up we aren't running players like Blythe out. 

 

I think to do that without question we need to bring in a G. That guy to me is Johnson. He can kick out to tackle in a jam. 

 

 

 

 Mewhort is way over rated here. A slow as molasses athlete.
Gives us Nothing beyond what is right in front of him.
 I look forward to Clark being our LT ASAP, and Haeg at RT whenever AC is gone..

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1 hour ago, Coltscrazy said:

A LT who had his worst year to date.  A LG who can't pull.  A 1rst rnd pick center who can't run block.  Those are our GOOD linemen.  After that it gets worse.  I can't see how you can spin this into a good situation.  I'm hoping they are just good enough to get in the way for three seconds.  Pass every down.

I thought Denzelle was our GOOD linemen. 

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19 hours ago, #12. said:

Yes, our top ranked O-lineman was 20th at his position.  Top.  

 

25th overall.

 

6 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

You're relying on the oline remaining this cocnistent or getting better. I don't have faith in ifs. Which is why I want lamp in round 1. 

 

There re is a TON of defensive depth in the draft to help this team tremendously. Draft lamp, keep luck safe, get back to controlling TOP and lets go to the SB. 

I'm not willing to gamble with the health of our franchise player Andrew Luck. I'm not saying o-line round one but you gotta pick guard or tackle early 

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22 hours ago, Legend of Luck said:

I wanted to create a topic where we could discuss the facts that were presented in Stampede Blue's film breakdown of our current Offensive lineman and some info I pulled from PFF, and hopefully get a better understanding of what it is they do well and where they need to improve. I see a lot of people that post here that have some misconceptions about each player, and these film breakdowns may clear up some of that, so that we can have a more appropriate discussion on what to do in the draft and where we stand as a team.

 

So, for the sake of saving time, I put a link to all the articles below, and summarized the main takeaways from each. (Everything below was taken from the articles I've linked, none of it is my own deductions or thoughts.)

 

PFF Offensive Line Rankings- Colts Ranked 25th Overall- The most interesting bit of information from this was that they felt Castonzo had a really strong year, and that our original starting 5 were far superior to ANY combination we used when we had to account for injuries.

 

Anthony Castonzo - PFF 20th Ranked LT

Strengths- Good awareness, athletic and strong, good ability to anchor, wins most of the time when he initiates contact.

Weaknesses- Way too inconsistent, sometimes utilizes poor technique, susceptible to bull rushes

Pass Protection- Good
Run Blocking- Good-  (PFF ranked Castonzo as our top rated run blocker)

Upside- If he can work on his technique, he can become the top level LT that we need him to be, and that he was a few years ago.

Overall- Solid Starter

 

Jack Mewhort 

Strengths- Everything- Athletic, intelligent, great in both pass protection and run blocking. Mewhort should be a rock on our O-line for years.

Weaknesses- Very little, occasionally released a block too early.

Pass Protection- High Quality

Run Blocking- High Quality

Upside- Perennial Pro-Bowler
Overall- High Quality Starter

 

Joe Haeg at RG and Joe Haeg at RT

Strengths- Very mobile, able to get to and be effective at the second level, good technique, like Castonzo he wins most of the time that he initiates contact, good run blocker

Weaknesses- Very poor anchor that becomes a major liability in pass protection, not physically strong enough to beat some defenders when asked to "hold the line," victim of making some mental errors that could be attributed to being a rookie

Pass Protection- Below Average
Run Blocking- Good

Upside- If he is able to add strength in the weightroom and develop a stronger anchor, Haeg could be a strong starter at RG or RT in the future. But until he can add strength and develop his anchor, his ceiling is very limited.
Overall- Back-Up with upside.

 

 

Le'Raven Clark

Strengths- In his rookie season, Clark showed flashes of being a High Quality Starter. Incredible athlete, great anchor, long arms and strong hands, can shadow defenders well, athletic enough to get to the second level in the run game. 

Weaknesses- In his rookie season, made some mental errors, susceptible to being beat with leverage when he punches and pushes off instead of locking on.

Pass Protection- Good

Run Blocking- Good

Upside- As he develops, Clark could become our future LT if Castonzo doesn't improve. This upcoming year could be a breakout year for Clark.
Overall- Solid Starter

 

 

Denzelle Good- Pass blocking and run blocking

Strengths- The biggest and perhaps strongest lineman on the roster, can win one-on-one in pass protection and run blocking, great anchor, viscous at the point of attack, mauler and brutish run blocker, wins more often than not

Weaknesses- Lacks technique in certain areas such as dealing with speed rush, releases blocks too quickly on occasion, not very mobile in the run game, loses his balance in both the run game and passing game

Pass Protection- Good

Run Blocking- Good

Upside- Good has the ability to be our starting RG if he can develop his technique, work on keeping his balance, and potentially drop weight in order to become more mobile in the run game. Hopefully, with help from Joe Philbin, as he enters his 3rd season, he shows improvement in those areas and can put a strangle hold on the RG spot.
Overall- Solid Starter

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Missing from this list is obviously Kelly, but we all know he's a stud and is going to be our starting Center for years to come. Also, there is no info on newly signed Brian Schwenke.

 

Using this information, I think we can see that there is a ton of upside with our current roster. 

 

Kelly, Mewhort, and Le'Raven Clark look to be the real deal. Denzelle Good has size and strength that cannot be taught. If he can work on his technique a bit he could become a huge asset for us. Same thing with Haeg. Haeg shows very good technique, and if he can add some strength and develop a strong anchor (easier said than done, I know) I think Haeg could turn into an All-Pro RG or RT. And if we can get Castonzo back to the level he was playing at before, then we're all set at LT and RT.

 

I bring a lot of this up because I know the media has made a big deal about the Colts spending a high draft pick on OL. Now, I was all for trying to sign one of the top Free Agent Guards, because we had the money, but I think we have more pressing needs to address in the draft. Good is starting his 3rd year, Haeg and Clark are entering their second. If these guys can take some big steps forward and can STAY HEALTHY, our line could be leaps and bounds better.

 

Personally, looking at the information above, I think it would be a mistake to use anything more than a 4th round pick on another lineman.

 

And as a side note, the O-line has been in Indy working together, training and in the weight room for a lot of the off-season. That gives me even more hope, especially for a player like Haeg.

This is right in line with my observations. With this in mind,  I expect Ballard to bring in another OT in the lightning rounds.

 

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Nobody is talking about this but our other teams in the afc south are building monster defense's to bang on the Colt's offense.I expect Houston and Jacksonville to be in the top 10 in defense so we have to keep tightening up our strengths as we bring up our weakness. I think our defense is already better (on paper) than last year so If we need one more piece to make our line elite we should do it imo. We have to worry about winning this division  and it is going to be harder and harder to do with these defenses in the division.

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3 hours ago, Dickerson29 said:

Nobody is talking about this but our other teams in the afc south are building monster defense's to bang on the Colt's offense.I expect Houston and Jacksonville to be in the top 10 in defense so we have to keep tightening up our strengths as we bring up our weakness. I think our defense is already better (on paper) than last year so If we need one more piece to make our line elite we should do it imo. We have to worry about winning this division  and it is going to be harder and harder to do with these defenses in the division.

Did you say elite? It's going to take more than a piece to make the OL elite. I think adding a RG would give us a chance at solid. 

 

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On 4/24/2017 at 1:17 PM, Coltscrazy said:

A LT who had his worst year to date.  A LG who can't pull.  A 1rst rnd pick center who can't run block.  Those are our GOOD linemen.  After that it gets worse.  I can't see how you can spin this into a good situation.  I'm hoping they are just good enough to get in the way for three seconds.  Pass every down.

Dumbazz

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On 4/24/2017 at 1:17 PM, Coltscrazy said:

A LT who had his worst year to date.  A LG who can't pull.  A 1rst rnd pick center who can't run block.  Those are our GOOD linemen.  After that it gets worse.  I can't see how you can spin this into a good situation.  I'm hoping they are just good enough to get in the way for three seconds.  Pass every down.

 

I'm sorry you don't follow the Colts all that closely.

 

If that's your honest view of the Colts o-line,  then you're seeing something the rest of us are not....

 

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