Lawrence Owen

Defensively: How would you fix this?

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Lawrence Owen    559

With the amount of talent we lack on 1/2 of the field,..let us say we keep ALL the O from last year...(hypotheticly).

Now,..you have 40 mil cap (due to signing our own F.A's back (not exact numbers,..but figure worst case $$ for resigning)),

and you have the 15th pick in the draft.   

My philosophy:

All eggs in 1 basket?  Since we are most depleted in the LBing corps,..we sign a F.A. MLB

Draft 3 LB's in the draft. (2 being pass rushers, and 1 of those as top 2 rounder pick)

And then spend 1 on d-lineman. ( prefer a NT..but if a 3 or 5 tech is BPA..go there)

2 on corners (this is where the other top 2 rounder goes).

The rest of our picks go to RB and another lb'er or corner or lineman (whichever is BPA in those 3 catagories.)

 

I have a feeling D.Q. was just the beginning,...i expect 2-3 more 'firings' before F.A. starts.  But as it sits now, I think this is our best option.  The O was top 10 last year,..and our o-line started to settle in as the year went on.  Yes you want to protect the QB,..but i believe we have what we need in house right now.  And another offseason for them to get better and gel even more.

We ABSOLUTELY have to flip the tables on our LBing corps.  Better tackling,...quicker reads..better coverage ability, and last but definately not least,...more consistant pass rush.

I think our safety position is ok for another year, with Adams ( if he signs another year) and Butler (whom showed he can not only play safety, but be an asset there) and Geathers.  Green is now playing his 4th season as a safety.  In his life. Being a back-up 1 more year should do the man wonders, and hopefully have him ready to step in and fill the starting void the year after.

 

What do you think?  Would you go more Corner heavy in the draft and F.A.? Some argue this, but I think the LBing deficiency is too horrendous.

 

 

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Chucklez    734

There's no question our LB corps is by far and away our most depleted area on the team. I mean, the only ones currently on the team that played for us last year are E. Jackson, A. Morrison and Josh McNary (who is hopefully cut anyways).....

Corners-wise we still have Vontae and Patrick Robinson, who can be moved to the slot permanently (preferred position for him by all) if we get another outside corner via draft or FA....

The point is at least at the CB position we have something to build on..... Our LB corps is depleted at every position..... both ILB slots and both OLB slots....  No doubt in my mind that is where the attention needs to go.

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CR91    5,248

Our defense isn't too far off. We have some good pieces like Davis geathers Anderson if healthy langford and ridgrway. What we need is to do a complete remodel to our lbers inside and outside along with upgrading our NT. Me personally, I don't see a lber or NT worth taking in the first round. Barrett doesn't impress me and thomas has never played standing up which is why I go the rb route with dalvin cook.

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SteelCityColt    4,715
1 hour ago, Chucklez said:

There's no question our LB corps is by far and away our most depleted area on the team. I mean, the only ones currently on the team that played for us last year are E. Jackson, A. Morrison and Josh McNary (who is hopefully cut anyways).....

Corners-wise we still have Vontae and Patrick Robinson, who can be moved to the slot permanently (preferred position for him by all) if we get another outside corner via draft or FA....
The point is at least at the CB position we have something to build on..... Our LB corps is depleted at every position..... both ILB slots and both OLB slots....  No doubt in my mind that is where the attention needs to go.

 

I'd reinforce this with saying that a pass rush of any form goes a long way to helping a secondary. For all the Legion of Boom are fantastically talented if they didn't have players like Bennett/Clark/Avril/Wagner up in the front 7 they'd look a different unit I wager. 

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lollygagger8    6,698

McNary has to be a goner once Ballard looks at the tape. 

 

I think Ballard goes OLB in the 1st, and addresses ILB or CB in the 2nd or 3rd. I also think he gets another OLB or ILB in FA.

 

Some mock drafts have us taking RB in the 2nd round. <- I think that's a terrible idea. Re-sign Turbin instead. 

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Chucklez    734
6 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

McNary has to be a goner once Ballard looks at the tape. 

 

I think Ballard goes OLB in the 1st, and addresses ILB or CB in the 2nd or 3rd. I also think he gets another OLB or ILB in FA.

 

Some mock drafts have us taking RB in the 2nd round. <- I think that's a terrible idea. Re-sign Turbin instead. 

I'd roll with Gore and Turbin for another year as well.... We can address RB next year or later in the draft....

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Buddy Lee    126
47 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Sign Perry and Ingram. Then move up a couple of spots in the draft to get Foster. 

 

Instant defensive upgrade. Easy as that.haha

Easier said than done.

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Xander    1,850
8 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

McNary has to be a goner once Ballard looks at the tape. 

 

I think Ballard goes OLB in the 1st, and addresses ILB or CB in the 2nd or 3rd. I also think he gets another OLB or ILB in FA.

 

Some mock drafts have us taking RB in the 2nd round. <- I think that's a terrible idea. Re-sign Turbin instead. 

Same. I'm hoping cb in 2nd.

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Buddy Lee    126
2 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

I'd roll with Gore and Turbin for another year as well.... We can address RB next year or later in the draft....

Agreed.

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Lawrence Owen    559
2 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Same. I'm hoping cb in 2nd.

i feel the same way, but if the top notch lb'ers are gone by the time we pick,...that probably means one of the top 2 corners are left...i'd take that rather than reach on a pick.

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Xander    1,850
1 minute ago, Lawrence Owen said:

i feel the same way, but if the top notch lb'ers are gone by the time we pick,...that probably means one of the top 2 corners are left...i'd take that rather than reach on a pick.

In the 1st?

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Xander    1,850
Just now, Lawrence Owen said:

lets say Barnett, Mckinley,charlton, ect are gone..you'd not pick sidney jones at 15 if he was there?.......I would.

I was just clarifying. If the stud pass rushers are gone, yes I'd take a cb. I love Sidney Jones.

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LockeDown    1,178

Ballard said linemen are the main focus to him because that's what gets you deep in the playoffs.  I predict 3 linemen offense or defense, draft or FA that will be starters or difference makers.  At least 1 OLB starter and some potential guys. 

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Defjamz26    2,666

I think you could cut every LB on the team and it'd be justified. Not saying that will happen but that's how bad it is. The Colts should draft 2-3 new LBs (inside and outside) and bring in one from FA. That should be the focus. There aren't that many great trench players in this draft.

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Chucklez    734
17 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

No doubt. Any thing that fixes this defense in one off season is going to be a miracle. 

Fixed it for you.

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COLTS449    2,424

We're picking in the top 15 in a great class of EDGE rushers. One of Tim Williams, Takk McKinley, Taco Charlton will be there. And why would we re-sign Turbin when we can steal away a first round talent in probably the 3rd round of the draft in Mixon? Mixon is a true star talent.

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WarGhost21    544

Start with a strong FA. Brandon Williams ($11.5M/yr, 4yrs), Nick Perry ($8.5M/yr, 3yrs), and Zach Brown ($8M/yr, 4yrs). Cap room from approximately $70M (after presumed cuts) to $42M. Draft 2 edge rushers (1st round, 4th round(Comp)), 1 ILB(3rd round), 2 CBs (2nd round, 6th round), 1 DL (5th round), and 1 RB (4th round). Problem Solved.

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Colts_Fan12    3,646

I'd love to see a trade for a young talented player like Sheldon Richardson I'd give them a 3rd if that's not possible maybe Mychal Kendricks fir a 4th or 5th.

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Chucklez    734

 

49 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Start with a strong FA. Brandon Williams ($11.5M/yr, 4yrs), Nick Perry ($8.5M/yr, 3yrs), and Zach Brown ($8M/yr, 4yrs). Cap room from approximately $70M (after presumed cuts) to $42M. Draft 2 edge rushers (1st round, 4th round(Comp)), 1 ILB(3rd round), 2 CBs (2nd round, 6th round), 1 DL (5th round), and 1 RB (4th round). Problem Solved.

 

I somewhat agree... and we can definitely spend big in this year's FA as well... only two of our players from the 2014 draft remain on the team (Mewhort and Moncrief) so hardly any big 2nd contracts to work out for next year. 

The only big FA names we will have to make a decision on next year are as follows:

Mewhort
Moncrief
Davis
Vinatieri

Then we have a 2nd tier of players who likely will be cheap to keep if we wanted to anyways:

Retiz
Tolzien

 

Take into account that the salary cap will increase and the fact that we still have money to spend. I dont see why we cant go for some young talented FA's to pad out our cap space that is missing from our 2013 / 2014 draft classes 2nd contracts...

 

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21isSuperman    12,304
4 hours ago, CR91 said:

Our defense isn't too far off. We have some good pieces like Davis geathers Anderson if healthy langford and ridgrway. What we need is to do a complete remodel to our lbers inside and outside along with upgrading our NT. Me personally, I don't see a lber or NT worth taking in the first round. Barrett doesn't impress me and thomas has never played standing up which is why I go the rb route with dalvin cook.

I'd strongly disagree that the defense isn't too far off.  The 2016 defense was one of the worst in Indianapolis Colts history.  We need a CB2, a safety to play next to Geathers (and a reliable backup for Geathers, whose playing style could leave him prone to injuries), we need at least 3 new linebackers (Edwin Jackson could possibly remain a starter), and we need a true NT.  I think Parry is a decent rotational player, but I think we could use an anchor in the middle.  That's half of the defense that needs changing/improving.  There is no one I'm completely sold on.

 

Davis - can he stay away from nagging injuries and return to his 2014 form?

Anderson - has he fully healed from his injury, and are there any lingering effects?

Langford - you can't predict how guys will do returning from season-ending injuries

Ridgeway - still has some development to do, but is promising

 

I do think Ballard will emphasize the defense, but I think he has a lot of work to do, and he knows it

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jet1968    356

All defensive positions could be upgraded but the biggest concern I would have is linebacker. None of them could catch a cold if they had to. They are slow and dont tackle very well.

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Chucklez    734
1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

I'd strongly disagree that the defense isn't too far off.  The 2016 defense was one of the worst in Indianapolis Colts history.  We need a CB2, a safety to play next to Geathers (and a reliable backup for Geathers, whose playing style could leave him prone to injuries), we need at least 3 new linebackers (Edwin Jackson could possibly remain a starter), and we need a true NT.  I think Parry is a decent rotational player, but I think we could use an anchor in the middle.  That's half of the defense that needs changing/improving.  There is no one I'm completely sold on.

 

Davis - can he stay away from nagging injuries and return to his 2014 form?

Anderson - has he fully healed from his injury, and are there any lingering effects?

Langford - you can't predict how guys will do returning from season-ending injuries

Ridgeway - still has some development to do, but is promising

 

I do think Ballard will emphasize the defense, but I think he has a lot of work to do, and he knows it

Yep, anyone who says otherwise about our defense is clearly in denial.

I think you are being a bit down on Davis to be fair though, considering our complete and total lack of any pass rush, I think Vontae has been phenomenal. I agree it would be great if we can get away from any nagging injuries, but id put a lot of the issues he has had over the last 2 years (and he hasnt exactly been bad considering) down to the rest of the defense just not doing their jobs to help him.

If Vontae was on the field for the Seahawks, Texans or Chiefs he'd have been an All Pro.

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Chucklez    734
3 minutes ago, jet1968 said:

All defensive positions could be upgraded but the biggest concern I would have is linebacker. None of them could catch a cold if they had to. They are slow and dont tackle very well.

The only exception is E. Jackson.... I like what we have seen out of him so far. Unless we bring in 2 talented ILB free agents, I can see him starting this season and not being bad either.

 

Sure it was a flash in the pan in terms of how long he played for us, but if he can build on that and be consistent, he is a good player.

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Colts_Fan12    3,646
2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I think you could cut every LB on the team and it'd be justified. Not saying that will happen but that's how bad it is. The Colts should draft 2-3 new LBs (inside and outside) and bring in one from FA. That should be the focus. There aren't that many great trench players in this draft.

I agree they all are terrible lol what do you think about trading for Mychal Kendricks? He fits better in a 3-4 and is an athletic linebacker don't think it would cost more then a 4th maybe even a 5th 

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CR91    5,248
42 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I'd strongly disagree that the defense isn't too far off.  The 2016 defense was one of the worst in Indianapolis Colts history.  We need a CB2, a safety to play next to Geathers (and a reliable backup for Geathers, whose playing style could leave him prone to injuries), we need at least 3 new linebackers (Edwin Jackson could possibly remain a starter), and we need a true NT.  I think Parry is a decent rotational player, but I think we could use an anchor in the middle.  That's half of the defense that needs changing/improving.  There is no one I'm completely sold on.

 

Davis - can he stay away from nagging injuries and return to his 2014 form?

Anderson - has he fully healed from his injury, and are there any lingering effects?

Langford - you can't predict how guys will do returning from season-ending injuries

Ridgeway - still has some development to do, but is promising

 

I do think Ballard will emphasize the defense, but I think he has a lot of work to do, and he knows it

 

I'm not saying the defense doesn't need to be fix. I'm just stating we have pieces to work with. 

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throwing BBZ    1,379

Our 4th rd comp pick would be real good for Kendricks.
The best pass rushers we can get in rd 1 and 2.
 A corner in rd 3
 The best FS available rd 4.
 
 

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Chucklez    734
24 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm not saying the defense doesn't need to be fix. I'm just stating we have pieces to work with. 

Not too far off and have pieces to work with are two very different statements....

 

If we just needed to fix our pass rush, or just needed to fix our ILB's, or just needed depth on the back end, or just needed depth on the DL, then we would be not far off, but our D needs ALL of those things.

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Superman    27,117
2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'd love to see a trade for a young talented player like Sheldon Richardson I'd give them a 3rd if that's not possible maybe Mychal Kendricks fir a 4th or 5th.

 

Rumor is the Jets have been offered 3rd round picks for Richardson, and want more. I assume they'll want at least a 2nd. He counts $8m this year, and you'll probably want to figure out an extension before you trade for him, so that number will probably go up. And he has some off field issues, also.

 

So can you justify giving up a 2nd + a big contract for him? And how much better does he actually make your defense, right now in his prime?

 

I'm not sure I'd give up a high pick for Richardson. I think the defense is still too far away to sink that kind of money into him, and I'm concerned with his off field issues and lack of production. 

 

Give me the same deal for Kawann Short or Kony Ealy, and I'm all in.

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ztboiler    1,220
3 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

We're picking in the top 15 in a great class of EDGE rushers. One of Tim Williams, Takk McKinley, Taco Charlton will be there. And why would we re-sign Turbin when we can steal away a first round talent in probably the 3rd round of the draft in Mixon? Mixon is a true star talent.

You re-sign Turbin because you can, because he's near vet minimum, because you have 90 spots to fill....and most of all because he was effective last year and you don't get to sign and draft in a vacuum.  

 

If we draft better players then maybe he doesn't make the team, but Turbin should and likely will be in camp this year.

 

 

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theanarchist    926

OLB is a huge need. Having said that, first round draft pick should be the best available defensive player on the board at the time. Whether that be a DL, LB or DB. We need players at all 3 levels anyway. I don't think there is any doubt that we are going to have to sign a few mid level Free agents as well. But, we have to find our own player makers in the draft.

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Defjamz26    2,666
2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I agree they all are terrible lol what do you think about trading for Mychal Kendricks? He fits better in a 3-4 and is an athletic linebacker don't think it would cost more then a 4th maybe even a 5th 

Would gladly give a 4th for him.

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chad72    6,426

Ideally, Nick Perry, Brandon Williams and Trumaine Johnson in free agency. Then re-sign Turbin, Butler and Doyle (at the right prices).

 

If we cannot get a good outside CB in FA, I'd be fine with taking a 1-yr "show me" flier on Sam Shields opposite Vontae Davis while also drafting a CB in the first 3 rounds in the draft and moving Patrick Robinson to the slot and Darius Butler to free safety.

 

 

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21isSuperman    12,304
3 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Yep, anyone who says otherwise about our defense is clearly in denial.

I think you are being a bit down on Davis to be fair though, considering our complete and total lack of any pass rush, I think Vontae has been phenomenal. I agree it would be great if we can get away from any nagging injuries, but id put a lot of the issues he has had over the last 2 years (and he hasnt exactly been bad considering) down to the rest of the defense just not doing their jobs to help him.

If Vontae was on the field for the Seahawks, Texans or Chiefs he'd have been an All Pro.

I'm a big Vontae fan, so by no means am I trying to rag on him.  But it seems like he has constant nagging injuries with his ankle or whatever the case that keep him from being able to play to the best of his abilities.  If he can stay healthy and we can get a more consistent pass rush, I think he still has the tools to be a lockdown corner.

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Colts_Fan12    3,646
1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Rumor is the Jets have been offered 3rd round picks for Richardson, and want more. I assume they'll want at least a 2nd. He counts $8m this year, and you'll probably want to figure out an extension before you trade for him, so that number will probably go up. And he has some off field issues, also.

 

So can you justify giving up a 2nd + a big contract for him? And how much better does he actually make your defense, right now in his prime?

 

I'm not sure I'd give up a high pick for Richardson. I think the defense is still too far away to sink that kind of money into him, and I'm concerned with his off field issues and lack of production. 

 

Give me the same deal for Kawann Short or Kony Ealy, and I'm all in.

I'm more interested in a possible deal for Kendricks honestly 

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