**Report** Surgery/Season Ender AR Likely

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, JediXMan said:

Yeah there’s some really awful teams. I just want the Pats to win enough so they don’t get Caleb Willams lol.

Bears are saying hold my beer 

[Kemisk]

 

[Indyfan4life]

Whatever curse that was placed on us after Peyton left needs to end. 

[richard pallo]

Probably but not definitely.  Oh the agony of being a Colts fan.  This is like an Abbot and Costello movie.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

[SR711]

Well in the end, this is not surprising...when a quarterback leaves a game in obvious pain on this throwing arm and the appendage involved looks like its just hanging there, it is usually a pretty reliable indication that the time missed is going to be a multiweek at minimum or possible season ending surgery situation.  I'm just glad his rotator cuff or labrum was not involved as those things have more opportunity to lead to long term implications.  However, any surgery especially on the throwing shoulder in a professional athlete has potential for that 

 

While injuries are not predictable, I still contend the way the Colts used Richardson was reckless and, frankly, disappointing.  I am frustrated that the organization including the coaching staff did not take more thought, nuance into how they were going to develop him and his playing style and, ultimately, it has led to this being a lost year with his development and, if we're being honest, for this franchise.   Frankly, going forward they need to have him play more from the pocket, build on his natural ability to process quickly, not panic when the rush gets to him to make multiple reads from there, use his legs, athleticism, etc on designed rollouts, scramble yards when the pocket collapses and to move within the pocket in a tight space with good footwork while utilizing his arm talent on make throws that have zip when his feet are not necessarily set.  I do not need to see him play running back anymore unless its a short yardage critical (i.e. playoff) game situation.  

 

Yes, the above may have led to some more INTs, frustrating throws this season, but I truly believe that it would have led to a QB who was healthy, taken most of the snaps this year and ultimately been more polished and effective going into his 2nd year.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Anyone watching the game tonight. See the designed runs for Dak? Even Herbert

[Chrisaaron1023]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Anyone watching the game tonight. See the designed runs for Dak? Even Herbert

Yupp.. sad deal. We get a running QB and can't run him

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Yupp.. sad deal. We get a running QB and can't run him

We can but he has to be smart about how he runs. Either slide or get of bounds. 

[Indyfan4life]

Gonna put on my Richardson jersey tomorrow and cry. 

[IndyEric07]

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We can but he has to be smart about how he runs. Either slide or get of bounds. 

Learning how to fall is a real thing too. I heard a story how Brady taught himself to land on his left shoulder. Richarsdons inexperience is what has him in this position. He was ready mentally but speed of game he was not ready to protect himself.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Learning how to fall is a real thing too. I heard a story how Brady taught himself to land on his left shoulder. Richarsdons inexperience is what has him in this position. He was ready mentally but speed of game he was not ready to protect himself.

Watching Lamar Jackson yesterday was a thing of beauty. He has it down how to run and protect himself.

[Indyfan4life]

Let’s not forget how Tua was “injury prone” and Miami needed to “get rid of him”. Now look what he’s doing. Once he learns how to fall and protect himself better like Tua did, he’ll be fine. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Gonna put on my Richardson jersey tomorrow and cry. 

In 2024, he will have a good year. I am pretty sure of it. Nothing is a given because of health but we have a good roster, and he does have a little bit of NFL experience now as well. 

[#12.]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Learning how to fall is a real thing too. I heard a story how Brady taught himself to land on his left shoulder. Richarsdons inexperience is what has him in this position. He was ready mentally but speed of game he was not ready to protect himself.

 

Being bigger also means he goes to the ground harder.  Compared to Richardson, Lamar goes to the ground in a gentle sort of way.  

 

It somewhat reminds of the difference in the way Bob Sanders and Polamalu tackled.  Bob dealt death blows while Polamalu wrapped up in a completely different manner that was easier on his body.

 

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

9 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

There seems to be a lot of quarterback injuries this year. Justin fields.now our this week with a dislocated thumb. Jimmy our most likely. Aaron Rodgers for the Jets.  I don’t think I remember so many injuries as we have had this season in the league.

No they won’t. I guarantee they won’t. They will look into making sure they get MHJ.

what if mhj does not live up to the hype

[ShuteAt168]

On 10/15/2023 at 2:24 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

I didn't way he didn't want him a at all. I said for the price, I wasn't convinced Steichen would want him. If Steichen did push for it, then first it was Frank and now it appears Steichen is making key personnel decisions  based on store out there. Then what use is Ballard? 

“for the price.” That’s the key. A fan isn’t necessarily anti-JT or a JT hater just because he/she thinks the money is too much of an investment for the RB position. It’s a reasonable position to take. 

[ShuteAt168]

On 10/15/2023 at 1:56 PM, NewColtsFan said:

Because Taylor is the teams best offensive weapon.    And from the stories I’ve been reading the person who helped get Taylor to reconsider was Steichen.   He’s the person you were convinced didn’t want Taylor at all.   Turns out, he really did. 
 

JT has gone over 100 yards twice in his last 14 games. Are you sure he’s still our best offensive weapon? If there was a draft of Colts offensive players today, would you take JT first? Honest questions—not being snarky. Thanks. 

[Scott Pennock]

There goes the neighborhood! lol 

 

The silver lining is GM10 will go 2-9 the rest of the season and put us back in the top ten come draft day……..

[NewColtsFan]

34 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

JT has gone over 100 yards twice in his last 14 games. Are you sure he’s still our best offensive weapon? If there was a draft of Colts offensive players today, would you take JT first? Honest questions—not being snarky. Thanks. 

The last 14 games is primarily the 2022 season.   Taylor might’ve been healthy for a small fraction of those games.  He suffered three ankle injuries that year.  Plus, the O-Line had its worst year as well, so no where to run.   
 

When I say best offensive weapon,  I’m saying when everyone is healthy and it’s the best conditions for all. 
 

Hope that clarifies….   

[Chrisaaron1023]

 

 

The summer Olympics is a great time. It's far away from today. And yet will happen before we see AR again 😆 it's poop again!!

[richard pallo]

If he goes under the knife he looses this year for his development.  Stroud will have one year up on him.  Next year he will be the 3rd ranked quarterback in the division behind Lawrence and Stroud if we are lucky.  The decision to operate is not an easy clear cut black or white decision.  Imo cutting into his throwing shoulder should be avoided at all costs.  The rest and rehab should be given every opportunity to succeed.  So far it’s only been two weeks.  That’s not enough time imo.  If it was absolutely necessary they would have done it by now.  This decision to operate will set us back two years if they do it.  I just don’t understand the hurry to cut into his throwing shoulder when some reports are saying it’s not as bad as originally thought.  This is a dangerous path they are going down.  I’m thinking they are going to regret it when they look back on it.  What a shame.

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

If he goes under the knife he looses this year for his development.  Stroud will have one year up on him.  Next year he will be the 3rd ranked quarterback in the division behind Lawrence and Stroud if we are lucky.  The decision to operate is not an easy clear cut black or white decision.  Imo cutting into his throwing shoulder should be avoided at all costs.  The rest and rehab should be given every opportunity to succeed.  So far it’s only been two weeks.  That’s not enough time imo.  If it was absolutely necessary they would have done it by now.  This decision to operate will set us back two years if they do it.  I just don’t understand the hurry to cut into his throwing shoulder when some reports are saying it’s not as bad as originally thought.  This is a dangerous path they are going down.  I’m thinking they are going to regret it when they look back on it.  What a shame.

Thanks for the inside info Dr. Pallo. Can you tell us what the surgery involves? Is it arthroscopic or will he be cut open? What type of and how long is rehab process?

Thanks

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

If he goes under the knife he looses this year for his development.  Stroud will have one year up on him.  Next year he will be the 3rd ranked quarterback in the division behind Lawrence and Stroud if we are lucky.  The decision to operate is not an easy clear cut black or white decision.  Imo cutting into his throwing shoulder should be avoided at all costs.  The rest and rehab should be given every opportunity to succeed.  So far it’s only been two weeks.  That’s not enough time imo.  If it was absolutely necessary they would have done it by now.  This decision to operate will set us back two years if they do it.  I just don’t understand the hurry to cut into his throwing shoulder when some reports are saying it’s not as bad as originally thought.  This is a dangerous path they are going down.  I’m thinking they are going to regret it when they look back on it.  What a shame.

Because it’s a 6 month recovery and you want him ready by OTA. This isn’t that complicated of a surgery. They fix the ligaments and wrap them so there is less of a chance of it happening again. 

[CR91]

Very unfortunate, but the future is more important. You just have to hope AR learns from this and protects himself better. This isn't little kids trying to tackle him anymore. These are grown men and they hit a lot differently.

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, JediXMan said:

It’s crazy to me a even after that routine tackle and AR in pain never did I think it’ll eventually be a season ending injury. How can it be anything but just the absolute worst Luck.

 

His shoulders stacked and that can be bad.  He looked really bad walking off the field.  Kinda like a guy headed for surgery.

[Patrick Miller]

Nothing has been verified about him getting surgery yet some media outlets are reporting it as such. 

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Nothing has been verified about him getting surgery yet some media outlets are reporting it as such. 

 

The owner saying he's probably going to have surgery is pretty reliable. 

[Patrick Miller]

Is it though? Would you be shocked if AR didn’t get the surgery?

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Patrick Miller said:

Is it though? Would you be shocked if AR didn’t get the surgery?

 

I wouldn't be shocked, mostly because Irsay didn't make a definitive statement. He's not sure yet, because apparently the decision hadn't been made yet. But having Irsay give this information directly is a lot different from media types speculating about the severity and recovery timeline.

 

As of yesterday afternoon, I was saying the same thing you're saying now. There wasn't any new information, just a bunch of headlines. Irsay's comments are a significant development.

[JediXMan]

44 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

His shoulders stacked and that can be bad.  He looked really bad walking off the field.  Kinda like a guy headed for surgery.

Yeah I’m relieved it’s not something more serious than it was. Stafford had the same surgery and he came back stronger.

[Nickster]

31 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The owner saying he's probably going to have surgery is pretty reliable. 

 

Now this is Jim Irsay we are talking about here though, not just any owner lol.

 

It looks like to me that AR is being given options, some which include surgery and some that do not.  It looks like to me it's up to him ie. it's not clear that it will help him or is necessary like it would be for a torn UCL, or ACL, or Achilles.

 

Surely though ole Jimmy knows something here.  But dude really likes to tweet or I guess it's X now. 

[Nickster]

11 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

Yeah I’m relieved it’s not something more serious than it was. Stafford had the same surgery and he came back stronger.

 

Yeah, watch that play again.  He goes down really hard on the point of that shoulder with the full weight of the LB coming down on his top shoulder. 

 

Yeah, shoulders are tricky.  Hopefully, the kid will heal and be ready to go at some point.   

 

Anyone I've know that has had shoulder surgery has said it really sucks, something about it being above the heart, and blood flow being less causing longer recovery.  I'm sure there are easier surgeries than others, but the 3 guys I personally know had a rough time with it.

 

If he is going to have the surgery, I hope they get this thing going. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

51 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The owner saying he's probably going to have surgery is pretty reliable. 

Maybe he got on Twitter and had 1 too many Scotches on the Rocks 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Now this is Jim Irsay we are talking about here though, not just any owner lol.

 

It looks like to me that AR is being given options, some which include surgery and some that do not.  It looks like to me it's up to him ie. it's not clear that it will help him or is necessary like it would be for a torn UCL, or ACL, or Achilles.

 

Surely though ole Jimmy knows something here.  But dude really likes to tweet or I guess it's X now. 

 

My thinking is he's being told it can heal on its own and would probably be okay with a few weeks of rehab. But it would be better long term to get it fixed, let it heal, and do a more comprehensive rehab. And if he's choosing between 2-3 months without surgery -- which puts us at the tail end of the season -- or 4-6 months with surgery, then there's little reason not to choose the better long term solution.

 

That's all speculation on my part, from what I've read about the injury, and the various options for a Grade 3-ish sprain. 

 

And more speculation on my part is that Richardson, being the never-say-die 21 year old athlete is saying 'I can come back in a month.' Meanwhile, the team is saying 'Andrew Luck played through shoulder pain for two years before he had surgery, you should take the long term approach and get it fixed.'

 

And every day he wakes up and still doesn't have full range of motion without pain, he's starting to realize that he probably can't come back in a month. He's also hearing more medical professionals give their opinion, which according to Holder's report, are pointing more toward the surgery direction. 

 

Irsay saying this after all the yo-yo headlines over the weekend and early Monday is significant, IMO.

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Maybe he got on Twitter

 

This isn't something he tweeted.

[Nickster]

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

My thinking is he's being told it can heal on its own and would probably be okay with a few weeks of rehab. But it would be better long term to get it fixed, let it heal, and do a more comprehensive rehab. And if he's choosing between 2-3 months without surgery -- which puts us at the tail end of the season -- or 4-6 months with surgery, then there's little reason not to choose the better long term solution.

 

That's in the ball park of what I'm speculating.  It's not like a clear cut surgery is necessary type of deal.  Or that it will even be helpful.  

 

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's all speculation on my part, from what I've read about the injury, and the various options for a Grade 3-ish sprain. 

 

And more speculation on my part is that Richardson, being the never-say-die 21 year old athlete is saying 'I can come back in a month.' Meanwhile, the team is saying 'Andrew Luck played through shoulder pain for two years before he had surgery, you should take the long term approach and get it fixed.'

 

I hope he gets it fixed, but I do know shoulder surgeries can be tricky and can be somewhat risky.  That said I know nothing about his specific injury or possible surgery. 

 

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

And every day he wakes up and still doesn't have full range of motion without pain, he's starting to realize that he probably can't come back in a month. He's also hearing more medical professionals give their opinion, which according to Holder's report, are pointing more toward the surgery direction. 

 

Irsay saying this after all the yo-yo headlines over the weekend and early Monday is significant, IMO.

 

Do you have any idea what the teams' prerogative is on procedures?  Obviously, the patient has rights.  I've wondered there must be a forfeiture of privacy rights with the injury lists etc. 

 

But like if you had an MRI that showed a torn ACL, and opted "not to have surgery" knowing that there is now way a torn ACL can spontaneously heal, would  club be obligated to pay any remaining money on the guaranteed portion of the contract.  Or does the club have some legal standing to expect the player get the procedure before being obligated to pay remaining guaranteed money?

[Superman]

40 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

That's in the ball park of what I'm speculating.  It's not like a clear cut surgery is necessary type of deal.  Or that it will even be helpful.  

 

I hope he gets it fixed, but I do know shoulder surgeries can be tricky and can be somewhat risky.  That said I know nothing about his specific injury or possible surgery. 

 

I don't know anything either, but I'm assuming they think it would be helpful to get it repaired. One of those things where rehab might get you mostly squared away, but there could be lingering effects, versus surgery would correct the defect. But surgery is a longer time frame, and has its own risks and concerns.

 

Quote

 

Do you have any idea what the teams' prerogative is on procedures?  Obviously, the patient has rights.  I've wondered there must be a forfeiture of privacy rights with the injury lists etc. 

 

But like if you had an MRI that showed a torn ACL, and opted "not to have surgery" knowing that there is now way a torn ACL can spontaneously heal, would  club be obligated to pay any remaining money on the guaranteed portion of the contract.  Or does the club have some legal standing to expect the player get the procedure before being obligated to pay remaining guaranteed money?

 

 

There's a waiver covered in the CBA, and each player has to sign it every season. It's Appendix S in the CBA, and allows disclosure of information for injury reports.

 

But in your scenario, I think the player has to make a reasonable and honest effort to recover from injury for any guaranteed money to be paid out. It would probably be covered under the grievance section of the CBA. I don't think the team can require any specific course of action related to injury recovery.

 

Interestingly, it's possible for a person to not repair a torn ACL, and the body learns to compensate. DeJuan Blair had a decent college and NBA career with no ACLs in either knee. Just a side thought, since you mentioned ACL specifically. 

[DougDew]

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We can but he has to be smart about how he runs. Either slide or get of bounds. 

Other QBs don't always do that though.  I mean, they are going to have to take a normal NFL hit once in a while and not leave the game over it.

 

Maybe his body has never been tested enough in college to know whether it even has the make-up to be an NFL player.   Maybe if he played more in college, an injury history would be part of his resume.  He may not have even made it to the draft if he had a more normal college career similar to the players typically taken #4.

 

And maybe drafting him #4 and throwing away normal college player analytical fundamentals was just hopeful/desperate effort on the part of Ballard. 

 

Maybe AR is simply on a bust trajectory due to fragility.  Size and speed have nothing to do with that.

 

 I guess we'll have to live with these possibilities until next season when we can find out more about AR.  Too bad.