Sources Colts have called about Jerry Jeudy

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

It’s just 1 game, but do you trust Minshew to get the ball to a true number 1? Does he even have the arm strength too? IDK I just feel you’re better of pairing a real vertical receiver for when AR is ready. 

 

Probably not, but I don't think the Jags stay in base defense all game if we had a receiving threat like Adams.

[John Hammonds]

On 10/12/2023 at 5:10 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

What are non-Rare air players? Is this a term Ballard or Steichen made up or is it based on a football stat or what?

Hi Jared.  Sorry for the delayed response.  I was in the U.P. of Michigan all weekend!

"Rare Air Players" is my own terminology.  Taken from Jim Irsay's comment about how during the early 2000's, our team was Rare Air.  I concluded that if you want a Rare Air team, you need Rare Air players.  Like back then, when we had a potential 8 hall of fame players on the roster at the same time.  Something we've not been doing the past 3-5 years.  A lot of Pretty Good players.  But not many (if any) Rare Air players.  The kind that gives opponents fits.  The kind that you have to game plan for.  The kind that will dominate you anyway, regardless of the plans you make.

Thus, I was saying that I didn't care to worry about trading one non-Rare Air player for another.  Neither one excites me.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

A true number one  doesn’t catch just deep balls lol. 

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

A true number one  doesn’t catch just deep balls lol. 

No, but having that big play ability is part of the deal. To me the most important thing for a number 1 is to be able to beat single coverage on the outside. 

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

No, but having that big play ability is part of the deal. To me the most important thing for a number 1 is to be able to beat single coverage on the outside. 

Yep. Some folks seem to be saying that the Number 1 is a Number 1 because they get the most targets.  Well, the REASON they get the most targets is because they can do more things than other receivers...they can run every pattern successfully.  The Number 2 gets fewer targets because he can't run every pattern successfully (consistently successful).

 

The Colts do not have a Number 1.  Defenses have been playing us that way for years.  They have been playing us like we do not have a Number 1, and have succeeded. 

 

Our play callers have been calling plays like we do not have a Number 1.

 

The NFL offensive and defensive staff know our personnel.  Fans can't always admit it. 

[IinD]

[sb41champs]

It appears that the Denver Broncos are having an NFL-sized yard sale - with multiple players said to be on the trading block and/or looking at being released sooner than later.

 

Keeping fingers crossed that Chris Ballard will pull the trigger on this trade opportunity - sooner than later!!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Superman]

I guess...

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am surprised that Ballard wouldn’t just draft. But I guess getting Juedy wouldn’t stop him from drafting a WR. Pierce could be the odd man out.

[Carlos Danger]

Jeudy is hypothetically the type of receiver we need here. He's a deep threat who also runs good routes. I hate that he appears to slack on any routes where he isn't a top 2 option and he doesn't block anybody, though. 

 

Not really a shoe guy, but maybe a change of scenery is what he needs... shouldn't cost more than a 4th and probably less than that... He's owed more $$ next season than he's earned, imo. Tough call, really, but not a franchise crippling scenario by any means, regardless of how well he'd play.

[krunk]

Analysis from 2020 draft:

 

This draft class is full of elite talent at the position, and the Colts can select one of the most dynamic players at his position in Jerry Jeudy.

 

What immediately stands out for Jeudy is his route-running ability. The sharpness and quickness at the top of his routes allow him to find open space in the pockets of the defense. Similar to that of T.Y. Hilton, Jeudy’s speed hits a second level after the catch, allowing him to burn opposing defenders.

 

The Colts’ primary offensive scheme is run-based with short and intermediate passes; this is where Jeudy thrives as a receiver.

 

https://horseshoeheroes.com/2020/02/17/colts-draft-analysis-jerry-jeudy-missing-piece-to-offense/

 

With Minshew at QB and the two backs we have a long with the OL we probably need to be more run based as well instead of that 50 plus attempt performance from last week.

[cdgacoltsfan]

41 minutes ago, krunk said:

Analysis from 2020 draft:

 

This draft class is full of elite talent at the position, and the Colts can select one of the most dynamic players at his position in Jerry Jeudy.

 

What immediately stands out for Jeudy is his route-running ability. The sharpness and quickness at the top of his routes allow him to find open space in the pockets of the defense. Similar to that of T.Y. Hilton, Jeudy’s speed hits a second level after the catch, allowing him to burn opposing defenders.

 

The Colts’ primary offensive scheme is run-based with short and intermediate passes; this is where Jeudy thrives as a receiver.

 

https://horseshoeheroes.com/2020/02/17/colts-draft-analysis-jerry-jeudy-missing-piece-to-offense/

 

With Minshew at QB and the two backs we have a long with the OL we probably need to be more run based as well instead of that 50 plus attempt performance from last week.

I have a feeling Judge Judy will end up on the Chiefs...or Bills.

[Superman]

35 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

Jeudy is hypothetically the type of receiver we need here. He's a deep threat who also runs good routes. I hate that he appears to slack on any routes where he isn't a top 2 option and he doesn't block anybody, though. 

 

Not really a shoe guy, but maybe a change of scenery is what he needs... shouldn't cost more than a 4th and probably less than that... He's owed more $$ next season than he's earned, imo. Tough call, really, but not a franchise crippling scenario by any means, regardless of how well he'd play.

 

I think there's the general idea of Jerry Jeudy, and then there's the real Jerry Jeudy. And those are different things. He definitely has some ability, especially as a route runner, but his production and impact are spotty, at best. And his attitude/effort aren't highly spoken of.

 

More big picture, I am working through some cognitive dissonance about the WR position lately. I love the technically sound WR who runs great routes, basically the Reggie Wayne model. At his very best, I think that's what Jeudy would be. I would generally rather have Terry McLaurin than DK Metcalf, for example.

 

But in the current NFL, which is mostly zone defense, the impact of a great route runner has probably been diminished. The scheme and QB are doing the work to beat the defense. Maybe a technician is better at beating press coverage, but with motion and shifts, the scheme can beat press.

 

It seems like the necessary traits at WR these days are speed, hands, and physicality to finish through contact. If a guy can produce YAC, that's a bonus, and maybe that's an overlapping trait for a good route runner, but not necessarily. 

 

So I'm thinking the things that the best version of Jeudy is supposed to have going for him aren't even a big value add in a modern offense. This theory of mine is still a work in progress, I'm not married to it, but I've been going over it for a while now. 

 

I'm not protesting the Colts potentially making this trade, but like I said earlier, I don't think he's the right guy for our team. And I think a guy like Pierce has greater potential in the current environment, but that requires that we use him more, and that he's more consistent when he gets opportunities.

 

If it's a late Day 3 pick, I'm fine. But he's guaranteed $13m next year, so that's still kind of a tough sell.

[Fluke_33]

When teams are discussing a trade do they allow the team getting the player to have their staff speak with him prior to the trade?

 

Would they allow Steichen, Cooter, and Wayne to gauge if Jeudy is mentally ready to turn around his career or do they just have to go with what they've seen?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Fluke_33 said:

When teams are discussing a trade do they allow the team getting the player to have their staff speak with him prior to the trade?

 

Would they allow Steichen, Cooter, and Wayne to gauge if Jeudy is mentally ready to turn around his career or do they just have to go with what they've seen?

Denver could grant that if they wanted too. They don’t have to though.

[Dobbinblitz]

I would not mind seeing what impact Reggie would have on Jeudy; as long as the price is right.

[stitches]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think there's the general idea of Jerry Jeudy, and then there's the real Jerry Jeudy. And those are different things. He definitely has some ability, especially as a route runner, but his production and impact are spotty, at best. And his attitude/effort aren't highly spoken of.

 

More big picture, I am working through some cognitive dissonance about the WR position lately. I love the technically sound WR who runs great routes, basically the Reggie Wayne model. At his very best, I think that's what Jeudy would be. I would generally rather have Terry McLaurin than DK Metcalf, for example.

 

But in the current NFL, which is mostly zone defense, the impact of a great route runner has probably been diminished. The scheme and QB are doing the work to beat the defense. Maybe a technician is better at beating press coverage, but with motion and shifts, the scheme can beat press.

 

It seems like the necessary traits at WR these days are speed, hands, and physicality to finish through contact. If a guy can produce YAC, that's a bonus, and maybe that's an overlapping trait for a good route runner, but not necessarily. 

 

So I'm thinking the things that the best version of Jeudy is supposed to have going for him aren't even a big value add in a modern offense. This theory of mine is still a work in progress, I'm not married to it, but I've been going over it for a while now. 

 

I'm not protesting the Colts potentially making this trade, but like I said earlier, I don't think he's the right guy for our team. And I think a guy like Pierce has greater potential in the current environment, but that requires that we use him more, and that he's more consistent when he gets opportunities.

 

If it's a late Day 3 pick, I'm fine. But he's guaranteed $13m next year, so that's still kind of a tough sell.

Good post and the bolded kind of explains both why you don't seem too enthused about Jeudy and why he's not having the success many were predicting for him - he does have good speed(though not game breaking), he is a good route runner... but he also does lack physicality at the catch point and has some issues with drops. So... from the things you list as very important in today's game for WRs, he proabably only has speed, though not game changing speed and route running.

 

For me it's really weird to see us pursuing a WR who will need to get paid while we have our own and better receiver waiting for contract too. I don't see Ballard paying two of them at the same time...

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

When it’s all said and done giving up a fourth of a lower draft pick  is worth the risk to see if he can do something with colts. It’s low risk high reward. If it doesn’t work no big deal.

[Peter Nova]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10093175-video-steve-smith-slams-broncos-jerry-jeudy-amid-trade-rumors-hes-a-tier-3-wr

[krunk]

22 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

I would not mind seeing what impact Reggie would have on Jeudy; as long as the price is right.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Wayne knows him very well. Jeudy is from Florida. Of course we know Wayne has many ties in Florida 

1 minute ago, Peter Nova said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10093175-video-steve-smith-slams-broncos-jerry-jeudy-amid-trade-rumors-hes-a-tier-3-wr

this is old and he did that out of anger bc Jeudy slammed him

[1959Colts]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

When it’s all said and done giving up a fourth of a lower draft pick  is worth the risk to see if he can do something with colts. It’s low risk high reward. If it doesn’t work no big deal.

I think we should pass. At least, take it right to the deadline. We got the Browns Sunday and Saints on Oct 29 to decide. The way this season turns out depends on Minshew. The odds of Jeudy becoming a dynamic player seem slim. Especially with this offense.

[krunk]

That's not a bad lineup to me if you can incorporate Jeudy, Pierce, Pittman, Downs, McKenzie/Hamler. Plus the multiple tight ends. The money part ain't my business. If they are consistently talking I assume they know a way for it to make sense to their liking.

[Peter Nova]

11 minutes ago, krunk said:

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Wayne knows him very well. Jeudy is from Florida. Of course we know Wayne has many ties in Florida 

this is old and he did that out of anger bc Jeudy slammed him

 

Fair enough! Does Jeudy raise the bar for the Colts? I feel like we already have one on the team with Pittman.  The Colts need WR1, which Jeudy doesn't appear to be. 

[compuls1v3]

On 10/17/2023 at 10:45 AM, IinD said:

Banana man?!?!? LoL

[Superman]

17 minutes ago, stitches said:

Good post and the bolded kind of explains both why you don't seem too enthused about Jeudy and why he's not having the success many were predicting for him - he does have good speed(though not game breaking), he is a good route runner... but he also does lack physicality at the catch point and has some issues with drops. So... from the things you list as very important in today's game for WRs, he proabably only has speed, though not game changing speed and route running.

 

For me it's really weird to see us pursuing a WR who will need to get paid while we have our own and better receiver waiting for contract too. I don't see Ballard paying two of them at the same time...

 

To be fair to Jeudy, the Broncos' offense and QBing have been dreadful the entire time he's been there. His QBs have been Drew Lock, Jeff Driskell, Brett Rypien, Teddy Bridgewater, and the dried out husk of Russell Wilson. They've been through three OCs in four years. So his lack of success/production isn't entirely on him.

 

But traits-wise, yeah, I don't see him as the kind of player who will elevate our passing game. Especially with Minshew at QB.

 

As for the pay, the Rams would consider him a hired gun for 11 games, and trade him again in the offseason and let someone else figure out the contract. I don't see Ballard playing in those waters, but it would be interesting.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Peter Nova said:

 

Fair enough! Does Jeudy raise the bar for the Colts? I feel like we already have one on the team with Pittman.  The Colts need WR1, which Jeudy doesn't appear to be. 

They know his fit better than I do.  I think Jeudy is a better athlete than what we currently have at pretty much any position. I will let them make sense of it.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think Jeudy is a better athlete than what we currently have at pretty much any position.

 

I think he has the same athletic profile as the rest of our WRs, basically across the board. Pierce is the most dynamic of the bunch, but he's no standout himself. I think he had a reputation in college as a super quick, shifty guy, but his charted numbers and his play in the NFL haven't really supported that reputation.

 

Here are the Combine results:

Jeudy -- 4.45 forty, 1.48 10 yard split, 35" vertical, 10'0" broad, no 3 cone, 4.53 shuttle, no bench

Pittman -- 4.52 forty, 1.51 10 yard split, 36.5" vertical, 10'1" broad, 6.96 3 cone (kind of good for his size), 4.14 shuttle (also impressive), 13 reps bench

Pierce -- 4.41 forty, 1.58 10 yard split (faster than quick), 40.5" vertical, 10'9" broad, 7.13 3 cone, 4.28 shuttle, no bench

Downs -- 4.48 forty, 1.49 10 yard split, 38.5" vertical, 10'11" broad, no 3 cone, no shuttle, no bench

[Hark]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I think there's the general idea of Jerry Jeudy, and then there's the real Jerry Jeudy. And those are different things. He definitely has some ability, especially as a route runner, but his production and impact are spotty, at best. And his attitude/effort aren't highly spoken of.

 

More big picture, I am working through some cognitive dissonance about the WR position lately. I love the technically sound WR who runs great routes, basically the Reggie Wayne model. At his very best, I think that's what Jeudy would be. I would generally rather have Terry McLaurin than DK Metcalf, for example.

 

But in the current NFL, which is mostly zone defense, the impact of a great route runner has probably been diminished. The scheme and QB are doing the work to beat the defense. Maybe a technician is better at beating press coverage, but with motion and shifts, the scheme can beat press.

 

It seems like the necessary traits at WR these days are speed, hands, and physicality to finish through contact. If a guy can produce YAC, that's a bonus, and maybe that's an overlapping trait for a good route runner, but not necessarily. 

 

So I'm thinking the things that the best version of Jeudy is supposed to have going for him aren't even a big value add in a modern offense. This theory of mine is still a work in progress, I'm not married to it, but I've been going over it for a while now. 

 

I'm not protesting the Colts potentially making this trade, but like I said earlier, I don't think he's the right guy for our team. And I think a guy like Pierce has greater potential in the current environment, but that requires that we use him more, and that he's more consistent when he gets opportunities.

If it's a late Day 3 pick, I'm fine. But he's guaranteed $13m next year, so that's still kind of a tough sell.

Dang @Superman, that is some PHD level eval right there. Hadn't really considered it that way.

[BProland85]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

It better not be for much considering this team isn’t going nowhere this season or next year until Richardson can stay healthy. 

[jskinnz]

15 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

It better not be for much considering this team isn’t going nowhere this season or next year until Richardson can stay healthy. 

Pretty sure it will be a # 1 in 2024 and day two pick in 2025 in exchange for Jeudy. Seems fair

[IinD]

2 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

When teams are discussing a trade do they allow the team getting the player to have their staff speak with him prior to the trade?

Judging by Vontae's reaction years ago on hard knocks I'm gonna assume generally no the team that's trading for the guy doesn't really talk to them.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Hark said:

Dang @Superman, that is some PHD level eval right there. Hadn't really considered it that way.

 

Ha, just a wild eyed theory.

[Indeee]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am surprised that Ballard wouldn’t just draft. But I guess getting Juedy wouldn’t stop him from drafting a WR. Pierce could be the odd man out.

Ya think? 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I think he has the same athletic profile as the rest of our WRs, basically across the board. Pierce is the most dynamic of the bunch, but he's no standout himself. I think he had a reputation in college as a super quick, shifty guy, but his charted numbers and his play in the NFL haven't really supported that reputation.

 

Here are the Combine results:

Jeudy -- 4.45 forty, 1.48 10 yard split, 35" vertical, 10'0" broad, no 3 cone, 4.53 shuttle, no bench

Pittman -- 4.52 forty, 1.51 10 yard split, 36.5" vertical, 10'1" broad, 6.96 3 cone (kind of good for his size), 4.14 shuttle (also impressive), 13 reps bench

Pierce -- 4.41 forty, 1.58 10 yard split (faster than quick), 40.5" vertical, 10'9" broad, 7.13 3 cone, 4.28 shuttle, no bench

Downs -- 4.48 forty, 1.49 10 yard split, 38.5" vertical, 10'11" broad, no 3 cone, no shuttle, no bench

 

3 cone numbers, I love those for the quick separation aspect. WRs slotted as slot WRs definitely need to do this.

 

Cooper Kupp was 6.75

Austin Collie was 6.78

Deebo Samuel was 7.03 at 214 lbs (again, good for his size)

 

No wonder these guys can/could separate. Pittman has to be used underneath more because he CAN separate better, based on these numbers. 

[1959Colts]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

 

...I'm not protesting the Colts potentially making this trade, but like I said earlier, I don't think he's the right guy for our team. And I think a guy like Pierce has greater potential in the current environment, but that requires that we use him more, and that he's more consistent when he gets opportunities.

 

If it's a late Day 3 pick, I'm fine. But he's guaranteed $13m next year, so that's still kind of a tough sell.

 

 

Based on my research, the thing about Jeudy, that worries me most is, I just don't see him making that big of an impact with this Colts team. 

 

I am not a Steve Smith fan, but I do however, take his opinion with some degree of respect...

Smith's observation was, he called Jeudy a "JAG" (Just A Guy). We certainly do not need another WR who is Just a Guy. We have had plenty of those lately.

 

If the Colts trade for Jeudy, and should he not pan out, some here believe, it's not a big deal. We can look at is an experiment and just move on.

However, the way the Colts brass operates, I doubt they would simply accept failure so easily, instead, we would be stuck with an underperforming Jeudy, entrenched as the starter, until his 13 million dollar contract expires, and only then would they part ways.

 

[Superman]

27 minutes ago, chad72 said:

No wonder these guys can/could separate. Pittman has to be used underneath more because he CAN separate better, based on these numbers. 

 

I view "separation" as a buzz word these days. I've been watching some coaches' film, and looking at some metrics. We have receivers getting open. In fact, someone posted an analysis on Reddit today, based on PFF charting, showing that the Colts have two receivers open on 33.7% of pass plays, which is tied for the 4th highest rate in the NFL. It also shows we have zero receivers open on 16.7% of pass plays, which is typical (17 teams between 15-20% on this metric), and better than the Bills, Chiefs, Niners, Rams... 

 

People say Pierce 'gets no separation,' but he's been open. We don't have good QB play, and QB play is the #1 thing that determines whether a passing attack works or not. This is the same reason Davante Adams is complaining about his role with the Raiders.

 

"Separation" is just something people like to say when they don't understand why the passing game is stuck, and don't like the receivers. 

 

Edit: I'm not countering anything you have said, just adding some of my thoughts. Just for clarification.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Superman

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

Based on my research, the thing about Jeudy, that worries me most is, I just don't see him making that big of an impact with this Colts team. 

 

I am not a Steve Smith fan, but I do however, take his opinion with some degree of respect...

Smith's observation was, he called Jeudy a "JAG" (Just A Guy). We certainly do not need another WR who is Just a Guy. We have had plenty of those lately.

 

If the Colts trade for Jeudy, and should he not pan out, some here believe, it's not a big deal. We can look at is an experiment and just move on.

However, the way the Colts brass operates, I doubt they would simply accept failure so easily, instead, we would be stuck with an underperforming Jeudy, entrenched as the starter, until his 13 million dollar contract expires, and only then would they part ways.

 

I agree, he's JAG-ish. My biggest question is whether Jeudy's talent level is worth taking reps away from Pierce, specifically. But I guess Pittman and Pierce have been playing too many reps so far anyway, and there's room for another guy. I just hope they wouldn't bump Pierce down and give all his reps to Jeudy.

 

Second concern is that 2024 guaranteed money. If I had any confidence that we'd move off of him quickly, I'd be less concerned. But the Colts don't move and shake like that. If we trade for Jeudy, he's here through 2024, barring a very disappointing turn of events, which we definitely don't need.

 

Lastly is the draft comp, but Ballard 'loves them picks,' so this isn't something I'm worried about. I doubt he'd give up more than a conditional 5th.

[richard pallo]

20 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

Based on my research, the thing about Jeudy, that worries me most is, I just don't see him making that big of an impact with this Colts team. 

 

I am not a Steve Smith fan, but I do however, take his opinion with some degree of respect...

Smith's observation was, he called Jeudy a "JAG" (Just A Guy). We certainly do not need another WR who is Just a Guy. We have had plenty of those lately.

 

If the Colts trade for Jeudy, and should he not pan out, some here believe, it's not a big deal. We can look at is an experiment and just move on.

However, the way the Colts brass operates, I doubt they would simply accept failure so easily, instead, we would be stuck with an underperforming Jeudy, entrenched as the starter, until his 13 million dollar contract expires, and only then would they part ways.

 

Which is why if they make the trade we should understand that Shane, Jim Bob and Reggie along with Ballard and Irsay are 100% on board in making the trade.  I trust they have all had their input and say in the evaluation.  I’m betting they have been looking at a number of available receivers.  If he is the one they bring on board then that says everything we need to know.  They feel he is going to be another weapon for this year and most importantly for AR next year.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Which is why if they make the trade we should understand that Shane, Jim Bob and Reggie along with Ballard and Irsay are 100% on board in making the trade.  I trust they have all had their input and say in the evaluation.  I’m betting they have been looking at a number of available receivers.  If he is the one they bring on board then that says everything we need to know.  They feel he is going to be another weapon for this year and most importantly for AR next year.

 

Speaking for myself, I have no concern about the braintrust being on the same page. My concern is whether the move makes the team better or not.

 

Also speaking for myself, I have no problem with admitting if I'm wrong. I'm just making my thoughts clear for posterity. And if they make a trade that I don't think will work, and it turns out well, I'll be very happy with that. I'd rather be wrong and the team is in good shape, than the other way around.