HC preference -- part 2

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I agree. 

Not getting a Top HC like a.Harbaugh or Payton is Par for the Course for this organization. 

Its extremely early in the off season but like the remaining candidates, it will probably be  the same old same old as far as colts operations go.

Watch it be Saturday 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Watch it be Saturday 

 

It could very well be Saturday.

But if it is, how much difference will it make amyway? 

[Btown_Colt]

I’m staying with Steichen, but Ryans definitely made me think about it. I still want an offensive minded HC but if they go D, give me Ryans.

[jchandler7]

My top choices:

1. Kafka

2. Bienemy

3. Morris

4. Ryan's

5. Callahan

6. Vetrone 

[JColts72]

For one reason or many other's; Eric B. is unable to a HC job.

[Fluke_33]

On 1/19/2023 at 6:02 PM, holeymoley99 said:

I wanted Bubba when Reich was fired, ST coaches have had a great success when becoming head coaches time and again. His units have always been at the top in coverage and returns (Dallis Flowers lead league in KO return average this season). Knows the team very well,would keep our top coaches in place and get rid of those lacking.

I was thinking maybe they bring in an older coach like martindale with the idea of grooming bubba to eventually take over but that seems far fetched.  Just a thought. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

It could very well be Saturday.

But if it is, how much difference will it make amyway? 

Without a good QB it won't unfortunately. That is why we need to nail the 4th pick.

[throwing BBZ]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:56 AM, stitches said:

If Ballard allows Irsay to hire Saturday over his head again, he deserves to be fired next year along with Saturday. If I'm him, if Irsay forces Saturday, I hand in my resignation the next day. It's not like Ballard is not highly thought of around the league and can't find a job. He would also receive the same treatment Frank is receiving by media and NFL - thought of as victim of circumstances and crazy owner(and the resignation would cement that narrative too). 

 

My vote is for Shane Steichen, but the more we hear about how ownership likes Saturday for the job, the more I start liking most other candidates too. 

 

Morris, Evero, Ryans, Kafka... I would be good with pretty much any of those too. Hell Bubba looks like a great option too. 

 

 You are assuming that Ballard's search will offer Irsay one clear choice that Ballard "pounds the table" for.

 That may happen.

Or, he may offer up three good candidates and they would discuss any plus and minus's.

 I'm thinking Ballard won't have ONE choice. Therefore there would be no possibility of Irsay going over his head.

 

  It is that time in our history when even our most solid posters can't help themselves from joining in with the "crazy colt posters" to manufacture controversy.

 This when two highly experienced professional men who wish to WIN as much as anyone, will sit down and come up with the best answer they can. PERIOD! Done! Over! Next challenge! 

[jblastick]

Curious if they hire Ryans or a Morris would Bienemy come here as OC where he’d actually call the plays.  Lateral move title wise but give him more money and responsibilities and maybe he’d jump?  

[Superman]

Okay poll is now closed. Steichen (20), Ryans (19), Kafka (13), and Morris (11) lead the way. Saturday (7) got more votes this time, interestingly.

 

If the Colts narrow this down and we hear about second interviews, I think I'll make a final poll. 

[krunk]

Jalen Ramsey very high on Raheem Morris

 

[richard pallo]

13 minutes ago, krunk said:

Jalen Ramsey very high on Raheem Morris

 

Good to hear.  I hope he is a finalist.  I just have a feeling he could assemble a good staff if he wins the job.

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Good to hear.  I hope he is a finalist.  I just have a feeling he could assemble a good staff if he wins the job.

 

 

 

 

 

We'd need a really good OC, QB coach, and other offensive staffers. Any defensive HC is going to have to build a deep offensive pipeline of coaches.

[ShuteAt168]

Question: Bubba isn’t likely to get our HC job. Would he have a chance to get promoted by the incoming hire and, if so, to what? It seems unlike he’d get passed over as interim and then HC and then return as special teams coach. 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Question: Bubba isn’t likely to get our HC job. Would he have a chance to get promoted by the incoming hire and, if so, to what? It seems unlike he’d get passed over as interim and then HC and then return as special teams coach. 

 

Why would he be eager to leave? His best shot at getting a HC job is to keep dominating at his current position. If he's not the new HC but the new guy wants him, why would he walk away?

[ShuteAt168]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Why would he be eager to leave? His best shot at getting a HC job is to keep dominating at his current position. If he's not the new HC but the new guy wants him, why would he walk away?

Because I think he seems like a guy on the rise and he will feel disrespected twice in a few months by the Colts. The first instance — of being passed over for Saturday— I think would be especially insulting to him. My main question was if guys like him typically or often get promoted. Do a lot of guys go from ST to head coach? My sense is no but I’m not sure. 

[ShuteAt168]

4 hours ago, jblastick said:

Curious if they hire Ryans or a Morris would Bienemy come here as OC where he’d actually call the plays.  Lateral move title wise but give him more money and responsibilities and maybe he’d jump?  

I’d prefer an OC with experience at coordinating and calling plays. 

[ShuteAt168]

6 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 You are assuming that Ballard's search will offer Irsay one clear choice that Ballard "pounds the table" for.

 That may happen.

Or, he may offer up three good candidates and they would discuss any plus and minus's.

 I'm thinking Ballard won't have ONE choice. Therefore there would be no possibility of Irsay going over his head.

 

  It is that time in our history when even our most solid posters can't help themselves from joining in with the "crazy colt posters" to manufacture controversy.

 This when two highly experienced professional men who wish to WIN as much as anyone, will sit down and come up with the best answer they can. PERIOD! Done! Over! Next challenge! 

Like when these two highly experienced professional men sat down and arrived at Jeff Saturday? 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Because I think he seems like a guy on the rise and he will feel disrespected twice in a few months by the Colts. The first instance — of being passed over for Saturday— I think would be especially insulting to him. My main question was if guys like him typically or often get promoted. Do a lot of guys go from ST to head coach? My sense is no but I’m not sure. 

 

It's not often that STCs go directly to HC, but some do. 

 

As for feeling disrespected, I don't see it that way. I think Irsay specifically wanted Saturday to take over, and that's a big reason why he chose to make a coaching change during the season. It wasn't a normal situation, and it wasn't handled normally. We have two former HCs on staff already, I would think they'd both be in line to be interim HC before Bubba in a normal situation. 

 

And if he doesn't get hired, and feels slighted, I think that's kind of petty on his part. There are good candidates all over the league, but only one person can get the job. 

 

Just wondering, have you seen anything from Bubba to make you think he'd feel disrespected by the way things have gone?

[ShuteAt168]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

It's not often that STCs go directly to HC, but some do. 

 

As for feeling disrespected, I don't see it that way. I think Irsay specifically wanted Saturday to take over, and that's a big reason why he chose to make a coaching change during the season. It wasn't a normal situation, and it wasn't handled normally. We have two former HCs on staff already, I would think they'd both be in line to be interim HC before Bubba in a normal situation. 

 

And if he doesn't get hired, and feels slighted, I think that's kind of petty on his part. There are good candidates all over the league, but only one person can get the job. 

 

Just wondering, have you seen anything from Bubba to make you think he'd feel disrespected by the way things have gone?

So if ST coaches seldom get hired as HC, Bubba might leave if he has the opportunity for a promotion, thus making his path to HC more likely. Again, I don’t know how often ST guys get promoted and to what position. That’s what I was wondering. It doesn’t seem likely a new coach would come in and install Bubba as OC or DC. You asked why he would leave and then said ST guys don’t often become HCs — which seems to answer the question. 
 

No, I haven’t heard any public dissatisfaction from him but that wouldn’t be surprising even if he felt disrespected.

 

I disagree it would be petty. Just because Irsay made what most see as a buffoonish move doesn’t mean it’s not insulting, especially when the guy who made the decision (his boss, basically) isn’t going anywhere and still has his nose in decision making. 
 

I don’t know — it seems Bubba is well liked and rising so I was curious about his future in Indy. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, ShuteAt168 said:

So if ST coaches seldom get hired as HC, Bubba might leave if he has the opportunity for a promotion, thus making his path to HC more likely. Again, I don’t know how often ST guys get promoted and to what position. That’s what I was wondering. It doesn’t seem likely a new coach would come in and install Bubba as OC or DC. You asked why he would leave and then said ST guys don’t often become HCs — which seems to answer the question. 
 

No, I haven’t heard any public dissatisfaction from him but that wouldn’t be surprising even if he felt disrespected.

 

I disagree it would be petty. Just because Irsay made what most see as a buffoonish move doesn’t mean it’s not insulting, especially when the guy who made the decision (his boss, basically) isn’t going anywhere and still has his nose in decision making. 
 

I don’t know — it seems Bubba is well liked and rising so I was curious about his future in Indy. 

 

Got it. I don't think STCs generally move to new units, either. It's not likely that he suddenly gets considered for OC/DC positions all of a sudden, with no experience at either spot. Now if a team wants to offer him an OC/DC position, yeah I definitely could see him leaving, and depending on the job that would probably be a good move for his career. I don't see him leaving just because he's mad he didn't get chosen as interim, so he goes to another team as STC. That doesn't get him any closer to being a HC.

 

As for Irsay's "buffoonish move," I don't think the other coaches were overlooked. Based on Irsay's own words, I think it's more likely than not that if Saturday didn't agree to take over, Reich would have finished the season. I don't think they fired Reich, tried to figure out which coach would take over, and then said 'these guys can't do it, let's bring in Saturday.' I think Irsay wanted Saturday to take over, and once Saturday agreed, Irsay decided to fire Reich. 

 

I'm not saying it's impossible for Bubba to have had his feelings hurt, a little. But we all get our feelings hurt from time to time, and we keep moving. Management might make a decision we disagree with, and we get irritated, blow off steam, and get back to work. I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for him.

 

I think people on the outside view the Irsay/Saturday/Reich situation in such a negative light that they project their own feelings onto others. Doesn't mean you're not right, but I don't know if there's any indication or evidence that Bubba has any negative feelings at all, especially to the point that he'd decide to leave without a promotion.

[ShuteAt168]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Got it. I don't think STCs generally move to new units, either. It's not likely that he suddenly gets considered for OC/DC positions all of a sudden, with no experience at either spot. Now if a team wants to offer him an OC/DC position, yeah I definitely could see him leaving, and depending on the job that would probably be a good move for his career. I don't see him leaving just because he's mad he didn't get chosen as interim, so he goes to another team as STC. That doesn't get him any closer to being a HC.

 

As for Irsay's "buffoonish move," I don't think the other coaches were overlooked. Based on Irsay's own words, I think it's more likely than not that if Saturday didn't agree to take over, Reich would have finished the season. I don't think they fired Reich, tried to figure out which coach would take over, and then said 'these guys can't do it, let's bring in Saturday.' I think Irsay wanted Saturday to take over, and once Saturday agreed, Irsay decided to fire Reich. 

 

I'm not saying it's impossible for Bubba to have had his feelings hurt, a little. But we all get our feelings hurt from time to time, and we keep moving. Management might make a decision we disagree with, and we get irritated, blow off steam, and get back to work. I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for him.

 

I think people on the outside view the Irsay/Saturday/Reich situation in such a negative light that they project their own feelings onto others. Doesn't mean you're not right, but I don't know if there's any indication or evidence that Bubba has any negative feelings at all, especially to the point that he'd decide to leave without a promotion.

Good points. Didn’t intend a deep dive on Bubba but it’s interesting to me and I’ll be curious what happens. 

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Good points. Didn’t intend a deep dive on Bubba but it’s interesting to me and I’ll be curious what happens. 

 

Same. He's not my favorite candidate, but he's definitely not my least favorite candidate. I'd rather have him as HC than Jeff, but it all depends on the staff they can build. 

[strt182]

Am I missing something or is everybody just ASSUMING that Ballard was against the Saturday hiring for interim. In the press it was said that they had tried to higher Jeff in other roles.  I have not seen any creditable reports that Ballard isn't on board if Jeff gets the job.  I see a lot of speculation though. 

[Dingus McGirt]

Man, Saturday getting the job will be great.  Heads exploding all over this forum.  Bring it on Jim and Chris!!!

[coltsblue1844]

38 minutes ago, strt182 said:

Am I missing something or is everybody just ASSUMING that Ballard was against the Saturday hiring for interim. In the press it was said that they had tried to higher Jeff in other roles.  I have not seen any creditable reports that Ballard isn't on board if Jeff gets the job.  I see a lot of speculation though. 

You could tell that Ballard thought it was unfair to put Jeff in that situation, at least that's how it seemed to me, when I watched his press conference 

[Colts1324]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Same. He's not my favorite candidate, but he's definitely not my least favorite candidate. I'd rather have him as HC than Jeff, but it all depends on the staff they can build. 

I don’t get how people are okay with hiring someone in house. It’s clear something is wrong inside that building. We need a new leader. I like Bubba, but we need an outside voice at the head coach position. 

[Superman]

41 minutes ago, strt182 said:

Am I missing something or is everybody just ASSUMING that Ballard was against the Saturday hiring for interim. In the press it was said that they had tried to higher Jeff in other roles.  I have not seen any creditable reports that Ballard isn't on board if Jeff gets the job.  I see a lot of speculation though. 

 

I think Chris Ballard toed the company line during the press conference introducing Saturday. But I believe he was asked how he felt about the move, and he mentioned that there was healthy debate about it... something like that. I thought it was obvious that he wasn't a fan of either decision.

 

And now, he's leading the coaching search at this stage. We have 14 names of potential candidates that the Colts have contacted. Thirteen of them have several years of NFL coaching experience. And then there's Jeff Saturday, who seems to stand out like a sore thumb. If you go back to 2018, Ballard interviewed eight coaches, and all of them had several years of NFL experience, except Matt Rhule. But Rhule had one year as an NFL assistant, plus nearly 20 years of college experience, so still a deep coaching resume. So that's now at least 22 coaching candidates in whom Ballard has shown interest, and of those 22, Jeff Saturday is the major outlier.

 

I think we can read between the lines with very little effort and understand that Jeff Saturday's candidacy is based primarily on support from Jim Irsay. 

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

I don’t get how people are okay with hiring someone in house. It’s clear something is wrong inside that building. We need a new leader. I like Bubba, but we need an outside voice at the head coach position. 

 

Meh. I think the voice can stand on its own, where it comes from doesn't seem important. 

 

One of my initial theories about the Jeff Saturday move was that Irsay felt something was wrong in the building, and wanted Saturday to help him figure it out. I haven't totally moved off of that theory, but I'm definitely anxious to see who gets the job, and hoping it's someone with a good track record.

[John Waylon]

Not a single vote for Martindale? Interesting. 

[superrep1967]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:56 AM, stitches said:

If Ballard allows Irsay to hire Saturday over his head again, he deserves to be fired next year along with Saturday. If I'm him, if Irsay forces Saturday, I hand in my resignation the next day. It's not like Ballard is not highly thought of around the league and can't find a job. He would also receive the same treatment Frank is receiving by media and NFL - thought of as victim of circumstances and crazy owner(and the resignation would cement that narrative too). 

 

My vote is for Shane Steichen, but the more we hear about how ownership likes Saturday for the job, the more I start liking most other candidates too. 

 

Morris, Evero, Ryans, Kafka... I would be good with pretty much any of those too. Hell Bubba looks like a great option too. 

My vote goes to Kafka.

[superrep1967]

10 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Good to hear.  I hope he is a finalist.  I just have a feeling he could assemble a good staff if he wins the job.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, you do well Morris was 21-38 as a head coach we'd be just as well to hire Saturday. IMO

16 hours ago, jchandler7 said:

My top choices:

1. Kafka

2. Bienemy

3. Morris

4. Ryan's

5. Callahan

6. Vetrone 

I'm with you I like Kafka to. 

[Zoltan]

6 hours ago, strt182 said:

Am I missing something or is everybody just ASSUMING that Ballard was against the Saturday hiring for interim. In the press it was said that they had tried to higher Jeff in other roles.  I have not seen any creditable reports that Ballard isn't on board if Jeff gets the job.  I see a lot of speculation though. 

I hate that I keep having to post this but there are reports back when he was initially announced (from credible sources) that Ballard and the team president told Irsay "that they had reservations" about hiring Saturday as the head coach and since then there has been more. It isn't assumptions it's reports from people like Tom Pelissero who have big enough name and good sourcing where they have no reason to lie, because they have already made there name and don't need to try to get there 15 minutes of fame.